Is Rap singing and should rappers be excluded from dance judgement ?

Fame Forum

I personally don't believe rap is singing but more of a poetic expression. OK - lets say for arguments sake it's singing - should you be required to dance ? I bring this up cause I believe Justin Jacoby got a free ride in the dance category. I guess rap stage strutting is dance, and group dancing don't count !

he got in the finals but he wont go all the way - there is no triple threat there.

i agree

holy cow! hello! so agree! i personally dont think that he was singing, but whatever...i watched him in the group number at the end...it was modified for him. the song and his specific dance moves! what's that? i know it's mean, but i didn't really feel he should have advanced on. but look who's on the show, him and not me. may the best...whatever...!

Did u audition Star2B?

the rapper danced like a pogo stick with faulty spring!

oooooohhh...that's mean....i'll just stick with no singing, no threat

I feel that Justin is a good rapper,but he is not a triple threat.He reminds them of Justin &mm his appearance landed him his spot on tonight's show

So Patti, are you saying that he was used merely for his appearance?

well I do not believe that he is a triple threat. He did not dance much.What do you think? I liked him I thought he was cute.

i dont think justin is 3T quality. i dont like his dancing. Y&R stop that! you're such a meanie!

I suppose I agree with you on some points. He is cute, but wasn't the best dancer.

Patti, since you've been an avid folllower of fame, I'd really enjoy & appreciate your opinion on the thread "and then there were 9"

Hmmm... I think he danced well in his solo number... I don't think I saw him much in the group number since he was in the back most of the time and I wasn't paying close attention to the TV at the time.

What I like about him is his confidence... he just seems to be a little more "self-accepting" than a lot of the other kids... I dunno, something I just picked up on, based on their interviews and just their stage presence in general.

Plus I like the fact that he's kind of "different".. and yes he's easy on the eyes, as well as having a funny & very outgoing personality... I can definitely see why he was picked...

i dont understand why justin advanced. he obviously wont stand a chance with the likes of shannon bex. i think he belongs in a totally different arena. rapping doesnt require hitting the high notes and commanding low ones. all he had to do was get on with his rhymes. his dancing wasnt really showcased either. i agree he is different and he adds diversity but he will be more appreciated and equally compete with other rapper talents.

It seems to me they are looking for a "pop star" more than they are a broad-ranged vocalist... and considering that rap has crossed over into pop so much these days I coud definitely see how me made it into the top 12. How far he goes from here remains to be seen...

Justin's singing = 0
dancing = 0
pants falling off = priceless

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh
Great post!!!!! Y & R - good for the boy with a dream though! It sure does make a person feel good to be liked! and we all need a little boost every now & then! Even if it may not get him to the top 11 in the ranking!

very true! yay!... oh, i didn't audition, i was just saying he's on national tv, and i'm sitting watching him...but yeah, he really doesn't belong in the same catagory as alot of the other talent on the show. he raps...that's all...it's just different

i totally agree with all that. i was thinking the same stuff! and his pants were falling off!! i almost lost it when i read that y&r!! it should be a different category, yeah he adds diversity, but it's too different to be compared. i don't listen to rap much myself, but didn't it seem like he was out of breath the whole time? i kept hearing him gasp for air before everything. and yeah they modified everything for him the dance and everything. he's a cutie, but i think he belongs on a different show where it's rappers competing!

the breath thing!!!!! thats what i was telling my husband the whole time he was on

hey tomflush and shelmibelle how many threats are you all, can you guys dance, sing, rap, or do you have a good personality. Also did you audition for fame? you guys are probably worse then justin.

calm down, your not on there either, i totally agree however, with the missing triple threat. justin jacoby used to go to my school before he transfered to tohs, so i kind of knew the guy, but i was totally surprised when i found out he was on this show, and i dont think he'll get to the finals, no way, not with rapping, and yea if you knew this kid in real life, you would hate him, sorry

fame 3 who the heck are u? you are littering our fun forum

do i dare to stoop to your crap? yes! I am a dance instructor with 3 of my former students in major positions at this very moment! 1 on Fame, 1 on the national tour of CATS, and 1 in Vegas in Cirque's "O". I must know something!

These 24 contestants were great and they all have talent besides that they have feelings and may be reading these forums who knows .Obliviously "The Triple Threat" and more DEBBIE ALLEN saw something unique in each one of them .Go back and watch the first show and see how many people tried out for fame who did not make it .These 24 were chosen out of thousands of people.Face it they may not be your favorites or mine ,but this does not mean that they are not talented at all.They did not pick themselves either. Those judges did and they must see something in them that you are I may not. I think that they are all great and keep up the GREAT WORK YOU 24! and next week 1 out of 12 will be chosen does this mean the other 11 {SUCK} are no good.No it is who the judges think perform the best that night!!I love them all ,but My Dear RYAN CHOTTO is my pick out the bunch. .Hey whoever said they went to school with Justin and we would hate him if we knew him ,that is not nice and you will want tickets to his show when he becomes big!!Watch out!!

Justin is very talented. Rap is not an easy thing to do .Most rappers compose their own songs [RAP] . I listen to all music and Rap is hard and you do not see a lot of white boy's rapping and a lot of blacks boys do not make it. I only know of 2 vanilla ice and M&M who has made it big !I do believe this was his own song he sang,not sure.Give credit where it is do!!

I think rap is an incredible art and I admire anyone who can rap well (because I can't even attempt to do it. at ALL. )

I'm glad that JJ made it into the finals but I do feel that it'd make the competition difficult to determine because of how different it is from all the other. It'll definitely be interesting to see, though.

that's a good point brit, but then its like apples and oranges to me ( singing vs. rapping). both are forms of art, but then their difference is too hard to ignore. i feel that there is no comparison. i didnt hear any high notes there. JMO.

Well I still think they can both share space in this contest... both rap & "singing" can be considered vocal forms. There has already been a wide variety in types of "singing" done besides Justin's...

Look at Jamie staying in a low & sultry range the entire song for "Making Me High", or some of the more broadway-oriented tunes that had some portions that were more like spoken word/acting than "singing" ("Big Spender" for example)... To me, rap is just another form of "vocal talent", and THAT's what they're being judged on...

You don't have to hit a high note in order to show that talent... jmo

rapping doesnt showcase any vocal range.

it seemed like JJ tried to sing, but he was singing some words and leaving out others...I dunno, I don't see how anyone can compare rap to what everyone else is doing. I was surprised when he made the cut. (and he's from my hometown!!! go TO!)

Good call, Cynda! And just like wat Candyafter said, "its apples and oranges"!

ok guys - you asked for it - Me - I'm a musician who has already put out a CD playing guitar. Can I sing - not very good - only backup. Now - can I rap - let me give it a shot:


Justins the white guy, who thinks he's black
but the dude only dances when he steps on a tack
my homey Johan Williams - tonight took a crapper
cause Fame and Johnny, already picked a rapper @!
My man JOJO got a new doo - its streaky and shines
His hair dresser - bride of Frankenstein

Well, not exactly Dr. dre, but you may make it.

cute Tomflush!!!!!! Very creative! and I like joey better that justin - if they would have been on the same night or Joey before Justin he would have gotten to the finals instead!

I liked Joey a lot! I wish he'd have been on in another night like group 2. I loved Joey's dance moves! He needs to work on refining his technique a little more but he's for sure got what it takes...

Also he was very cute... downright sexy actually

He seems to have a very sweet personality to him... I wish him all the luck in his future...

I thought he was a good rapper, as good as Justin anyway, but he seemed a little shyer on stage than Justin... Justin has a more outgoing & funny personality... but I like them both...

Blame it on the JUDGES!!!

Well, like it or not, rap music has hit the mainstream of pop music. Pop music=popular culture. We all know the classical music enthusiast will not usually go for techno, nor will the country music fan usually go for head bangin' thrasher stuff. but rap, even though I'm not a huge fan of it, is an art form of it's own kind, and this kid should be recognised for the fact that he was THE ONLY performer who did original stuff. And he's not that bad a dancer, he has rhythym and funk. Rap is not an easy thing to do, just watch the movie "8 MM" and you will understand it's origins and perhaps it will shed new light on the genre. And, he may be a 3T in his style of music choice.

i love justin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hes sooo cute with an amazing talent!!!

I agree! He was great tonight! I really admire the fact that he writes his own material... Also that he is doing something different from all the others... I found him very entertaining... He has a strong stage presence and a very funny personality... I wish him all the luck!!

This is a response to Young&TheRestless

You talk about a white boy that thinks he's black?
Where does it say the way we're suppose to acts.
He raps if he wants to, he does what he can do
Don't hate on my boy cause he's better than you
Quit hatin on his dance moves cause you know they were tight
We'll catch him on the show again next Wednesday night
And even if he doesn't win, we all know we'll see him again
Dissin' him is like a smack on the chin
Your name's the Young And the Restless so take nap
I'll treat you like a lil kid and tell you to shut your trap
now getting back to the man that can do anything you can
He can use the force like Obi Wan Kenobe
I'm talkin bout my boy Justin Jacoby

I think Fame is doing a good job incorporating Justin into the show. I'm not a rap fan, but everyone who watches the show is not a pop fan either, or perhaps not a fan of dancing. Diversity is good.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how the two distinct styles can be blended.

Has anyone seen Sister Act 2? Remember the last performance and how they blended the singing with rapping? I thought it was very well done.

As for Justin's dancing abilities, that can be learned. I had to laugh when Justin's part was added to the group's singing and dancing. I think he was standing on a ladder, but can't remember the details. I laughed because I was anticipating how he was going to be used in the number, and when they finally inlcuded his part, it was cute how they did it.

The producers chose to keep him, and he deserves a fair chance to be included. Maybe he won't go far with the fans, but I bet someone else will take notice of him. He has excellent exposure now (not talking about the pants falling down though)

Hats off to the producers for allowing diversity. Can't wait to see the outcome.

the best part of Justin's performance recently was when he lifted up his shirt. otherwise, yech.

I don't understand the whole Justin scenario, but there's no denying that he has talent, but I thought in order for a person to win he/she would be a triple threat (act/sing/dance) and I honestly don't see him dancing a bit especially during the group numbers..especially when they all did the number to Fame, they gave him an easy lyric, so all he did was "rapped" it and as for dancing, well moving your feet is easy enough, but the boy can't dance..he's lucky that he has gotten this far...

He did do better than last week, but the fact remains he aint that hot. They let him in for a little variety, but now that everyones had a look he should go home.
Rapping is not the same as singing. It doesn't mean it isn't a talent, it just doesn't belong in this showcase. He should be held to the same standards as every other contestant and he's not.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!
Do me a favor and send that to NBC Kooky
(ya really ARE Kooky y'know!)

HAHAHA YA GOT SOME RYTHM DOGGGGGGG.
I GOTTA ADMIT YOU REALLY BURN THAT FOOL

How do we judge Justin's performance when we aren't allowed to see his skills with the group? They modify his role in group performances so he doesn't have to sing, and barely dance, and yet this is suppose to be a triple threat type of judging.

Does anyone judge by the group performances too, or do you just look at the individual time spent on the stage?

Not to be too critical, but does anyone else think he sounds a bit too much like Eminem? I'm big into hiphop and theres a lot that it takes to be an MC besides rhyming words. He isn't such a great dancer, I know there are a ton of MC's out here who can sing, rhyme, and dance. SO - I do think he has gotten a bit of a ride. He's the socially acceptable rapper, one who kids can tell their parents about and the parents wont be offended by his appearance or lyrics. But is that what hiphop is about? Or fame?

ps. http://www.babygrande.com/artists/chia/index.jsp

Chia, YOU should be up there representin'. You rock, you're pretty and I'll bet you can dance too.
Why don't YOU send in a spoiler tape - see if Miz Allen truly is wantin a cross-section of the music culture?
You're better than what they got!

I found this funny:

On the NBC Fame site contestants are supposed to describe themselves as either "a singer who dances" or "a dancer who sings"...Justin put the latter

Bonnie1

Thanks! If they do it again next year I might really think about it, but I'm telling you- this cat Harlemm is off the hook. I feel I have a lot to say, but this guy is something special you know?
Still, keep an eye out for me, you never know, . ..!

HATERS..we dont need no haters, ya'll we dont need no...its time to love one another, and jj!

well Crazyazn8647, I know it is kinda late for this now but I went 2 skool with him 2 and I didn't hate him. I didn't really like him but he was HOT! And he could be kool at times. He was funny as hell 2. Why didn't you like him? What did he do 2 you? And even though he didn't win he is still recording and gonna go places.

i know him and i dont hate him neither...did u go to schoo w him in LA or in TO? that kid is funny and i think he's talented.

I went 2 skool with him in TO. He is very talented (and sexy). There are 2 many haterz out there and I think that his talent is no joke cuz that kid has it ( even if I didn't really like him that much) and he will go far cuz if I was a producer I would SO sign him. My cousin is an agent (acting mostly) and he was looking at him. I was like No he performs and prolly does not act! How you know him Raashell? Sorry if I spelled that wrong lol.