Will you choose to end the war?... the choice we will all be faced with soon

Israel & Palestine Forum

Dear readers and contributors to this forum,
I am a retired Canadian businesswoman and representative of an international charity conglomorate called Peacemakers. We set up 3 years ago with the goal of finding realistic solutions to major global problems.

Very soon, we will announce a plan to fight against the war on the Giza plateau. I hope to hear your thoughts on this proposal as we are currently conducting research for the support of our initiatives.

We have raised approximately 500 million dollars for this project, making it financially feasible. What we need now are people committed to ending the conflict that plagues our planet.

If you consider yourself an open minded individual who cares more for peace than the need to win an argument or debate, please read further. If your goal in these discussions is to prove that your opinion is correct, then this may not be for you...



If you have chosen to read on you are faced with a choice.

1) To help end the fighting

2) To help perpetuate the violence

We at Peacemakers are commited to one thing, a realistic solution to the end of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Our individual membership is composed of varous races, religiions and genders, who have chosen to set aside their own opinions and passions so as to find an answer.

We firmly believe that to continue to argue on an ethical ground, to attempt to discover which side is at a greater fault, to try to assign blame and to justify further violence by any party is to choose War.

We all have witnessed horrific acts commited by both sides over the past decades, each new act seeming to justify another from the opposite party, until all that is left are memories of evil and hatred.

It is time for innovation by those who may act objectively. We the people of the world, must intervene if we desire peace, for it is foolishness to rely on two war torn parties to set aside a life time of death and suffering.

In truth, we cannot relate to their pain.
In fact, we cannot comprehend their suffering.
In reality we cannot judge one, who has chosen hate in the wake of a lifetime(s) of persecution.
Yet this is the case for both sides. Let us stop the debate and act.
The following is what we will do...

2 years from now, our charity will sponsor 1 million individuals fom around the world to stage a nonviolent protest on Palestinian grounds. The purpose is to bring extreme media coverage to the event and demand that Israel halt all military action at once, at the choice of harming pacifist protesters not even of the "enemy".
The challenge to the Palestinians will be then to halt all agressive acts upon Israeli targets so as to no longer justify any sort of military action.

Neither side will be able to take any action in front of the cameras of the world under these circumstances.

For those who are unfamiliar with pacifist protest, they have been met with alarming success throughout history, most famously that of Ghandi and his liberation of India from the British Empire.

Some years ago, when an anti-war protest was held on Palestinian grounds, it was matched by 250,000 Israelis, who gathered in hopes of peace.

Peacemakers believes that there is enough support on both sides and around the world to organize this event and we will succeed in doing so.

Admittedly, it is not a plan designed to assign fault to any one party and so those who are resigned to this way of thought will surely disapprove.

However, it is an action that will stop the fighting. It will most likely achieve a Palestinian State and will be better both economically and politically for those in the region and those around the world.

If you would choose to become part of the solution, let it be known here.

The peacemaker

I think everyone wants the kind of peace you are looking for but after knowing that peace talk are underway, and the Hamas are still going on the attack, how is it that true peace will ever exist if these types of groups will not let it. And how are we as regular people supposed to stop them if they are so willing to want to keep taking this type of action?

I understand that a Palestinian state would come out of these talks, but why is this group continuing on and not allowing these talks to resolve the issues?

Im really curious to hear what you think of this!

Dear Readers and Contributors,
The Success of passive resistance throughout history is rooted in political opinion and public sentiment.

The problem facing both sides of this particular war is that both have committed atrocities over the years, which diminishes their credibility to the opposite side and thier respective supporters.

You have pointed to the fact that certain Palestinian supporters continue attacks, and surely they would respond by arguing that their actions are somehow justified by Israeli agressions of the past.

Were there no aggressive acts by the Israelis to blame, this group would be seen as nothing but crazed murderers by both sides. In fact, they would end up damaging the credibility of their own purpose by killing those the world has judged to be innocent. In essence they would defeat their own purpose and would soon stop their useless tactics

Unfortunatley the world does not see innocence in this War.

Most often, the individual has judged one side to be innocent and the other to be guilty. Thus the tactics of the Hamas are not totally useless, in fact, justification for their acts can be found in this very forum.

What is needed is a group who are clearly innocent, whose past actions cannot be condemned by anyone on either side, and this is not the government of the USA!

What is needed is a group, against whom any agression would be an outrage.

When the world witnessed the thousands of Indians starving and being beaten at the hands of the British and refusing to retaliate, it was too barbaric for anyone to justify.

The British were forced to relinquish control becasue public support was too great for Ghandi and his pacifists.

For better or for worse we live in a world of media. It is media that determine public opinion and it is media that will end this war.But for that to happen the right pitch must be made to the world.

So far neither side has done that.

The Peacemakers Project is still a minimum of 18 months away from operation and perhaps by that time things will be resolved.

Unfortunately, I forsee continued attacks by the Hamas and I forsee retaliation by the Israelis. I then see a deterioration of peacetalks and I see another stalemate forming.

I forsee blame.
I forsee justifications of war.
I forsee no real answer until we do something.

Will you help when the day comes?

the peacemaker

The main idea is a good one and I wish much luck to you, I'd like to know some details though.

What you plan to do is send 1 million innocents to literally become a border between Palestinians and Israelis?

If you DO stop the violence. What peace plan do you intend to initiate? Is it going to be the Road Map?

In order to solve the conflict, you must find a plan that is fair to both sides and which the majorities of both sides will accept. This will be quite a problem in Hamas' case as it isn't known whether they've changed their policy of "All of Palestine belongs to us and we'll fight for it until it is ours!". If they haven't, the violence will continue... unless you leave these million innocents there for years to prevent it from happening, if it does prevent it at all.

Actually, when a Palestinian state is built, there's a chance that most Palestinians will be against further violence and groups like Hamas, Fatah and Islamic Jihad will either become passive or be dismantled by the authorities.

Be careful, you might end up with a bullet in your head if you believe that the Israeli thugs will be deterred from blasting you because of a few TV cameras! And most Americans will CHEER and say you DESERVED it...

It is interesting that you think that the killing will stop just because the world media will be watching. That is exactly what Hamaas wants is publicity and notoriety. I think everyone should be kicked out and they should build a Disney land park right in Jerusalem (just kidding but not a bad Idea). Think of the cool religious based theme rides they could make.

And the Jews don't care, they'd launch a tomahawk missile (or 3) into a pre-school, if there was a rumor that a low level Hamas follower was inside.

Peaceful Protest ... has been tried over there.
Fact is both sides are more eager to butcher their kids than to find peace.

The UN should send a force.... and MAKE BOTH sides disarm!

Guys... if the USA decides to go { hopefully with the UN.. this would be a great time for UNITY } into Israel and Palestine to disarm both sides.. which seem to be filled with MONSTERS...!!

Well if they decide to go... forget everything bad I have said....

I won't care to debate the finer points of war justification....

It won't matter.... ALL OF US need to stop these { pardon my language} ANIMALS from slaughtering their children any more!!

I have been reading Anti-Jihad's thread..... sobering.

What do you think... could former allies { USA, CANADA, FRANCE ETC. } join forces again .....?

If so ... despite our differences I would fight along side any of you Americans... for a cause this JUST!!!

Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelies... deserve any more time... they are killing kids!!!

Neither the Israelies nor the Palestinians... have earned statehood.... they are killing kids!!!

Both sides are pretty much useless...and their kids deserve....DEMAND a chance to grow up....

I think only AN ALLIED FORCE could bring this about now.

Even after "road map" summit... they went right on bombing each other....... they are so sick... they are actually helpless to stop.

WE { allied forces of UN } MUST STOP THEM!!

maybe one thing that could make this happen is: Palestinian peaceful protester instead of terrorists acts.

Remember Gandhi ?

adding UN observer or troops ...... maybe .....

but as far as I remember UN observers and troops have already been asked by Palestinian but "vetoed" by US gov and turned down by Israel gov .......

that's why I say "maybe" ... and that's why I say Palestinian peaceful protester as the leaders of the protests .....

Rowdyjrp, you needn't post the same thing in all threads copy & pasting it everywhere.

Either you were in a VERY bad mood and was very angry (as it seems from your posts) or you simply gave up on the peace plan proposed by Bush.

Either way, I know that you know that generalizing is inaccurate and you know that both sides have representatives who wish for peace and want to achieve it despite the many obstacles that are on their way.

Sharon's slogan: "We'll make peace as if there's no terror and we'll fight terror as if there's no peace." It was also Rabin's slogan who (may have) almost ended the conflict but he was assasinated.

As you may have read from my previous post in a different thread (about the 5th air strike, that the inaccuracy of IDF's intelligence brought a tragedy) you may distinct between IDF that doesn't kill civilians deliberately but makes accidents, and organizations like Hamas that kill civilians deliberately and make accidents when they get caught, killed or fail to kill.

If you refuse to make this distinction and call for US troops then you must know that US troops had done similar mistakes during the war in Iraq. I know they didn't kill on purpose and whoever did, if gets caught he will be sentenced. So calling IDF 'monsters' would be like calling US troops 'monsters' - something which I refuse to accept. And calling US troops to Israel would be, in your view, pulling reinforcements of 'monsters' beside Israeli 'monsters' and Palestinian 'monsters'.

I don't know about UN troops, but I think that sending over US troops may help achieve peace... but it's doubtful nevertheless because thousands of Palestinians made numerous demonstrations against both Israel and US and burnt flags of both countries and celebrated 9/11. UN has been known as Pro-Palestinian as many Arab and European representatives are members of it. France, Belgium and Poland are known for their opposition regarding Israel's actions and/or Israel in general, add all the Arab countries to that, except Turkey. On the other hand, UN being polite towards the Palestinians may be the only chance to stop their attacks as Palestinian militants wouldn't want to lose world's support, and if they aren't stopped, UN will learn more about the conflict, the same for Israel.

911 was a very rude awakening for America. It was forseen for a long time but stopping it was next to impossible.
Even though the world seemed "Genually Sorry" for what happened, they will not join forces until it happens on their soil. The attempts are being made with Allies on the investigation for prevention but, putting a kick butt Allied Force together won't happen. That would be too much like a "World Police Organization" and there would not be acceptance world wide. The UN troops do not have the authority for search and destroy missions. They are only peace keepers.

While I agree that the attacks of Hamas are terrorist attacks on citizens, and the Israel retaliatory strikes attempt to focus on the specific terrorist group, and are in that sense justified, that does not mean that the Israeli strikes are the best course of action... clearly they are not working. Decades of hate have been instilled on both sides, and both sides have endured through atrocities inflicted by the other, and because of that, both sides feel equally justified, that is why the two sides are so unwavering in their position, they can not be convinced, or coerced against what they know to be true. It is no longer a matter of this side is right, and the other wrong, nor that side innocent, and this side guilty. It appears that there must be outside intervention, or nothing will change.

Hey guys....I was a little pi**ed off yesterday.

Sorry to post same message over and over....

I have just been re-reading so many of our dialogues ... and well it got me thinking....

One thing I do agree with Americans is you can only try to do something diplomatically for so long....

I may disagree with which things those are... { ya know which war I am talking about... begins with I.... ends with Q }

But I have come to appreciate that eventually force HAS to be an option.

Peaceful protests by Israelis and Palestininians has been tried and failed.... they are still killing each other.

Violence by both sides has failed... neither side has been able to completely defeat and/or disarm the other... they are still killing each other.

Outside forces, may succeed where... left to their own devices... Israelies and Palestinians seem unable or unwilling to succeed!

I think that a purely USA force { while easily powerful enough to get job done... would be hated by a significant number of Arabs and Palestinians} ... would not be right for this.

I think that a UN peace keeping mission { while supported by Arab nations, would be frowned upon by Israel } ... would not have the mandate to do the actual dirty work a sad, tragic fight like this requires.

I think something MORE is needed. The UN could draft a resolution approving of a true COALITION with forces brought in from as many nations as possible to balance the USA forces I am sure would join. This would be such an Allied Force that has not been seen since WWII. Why so large..... the deterrent value of having so overwhelming a force take over, should discourage Israeli and Palestinian militants alike from trying too hard to resist!!!

I do not desire for ANY of our countries to conquer these peoples...

What I am suggesting is that in order for Israelies and Palestinians to truly embrace peace they need a BREATHER!
With fighting going on constantly for 40+ years they have been unable to look around when the dust settles.... BECAUSE THE DUST NEVER SETTLES!

So we go in... set up a barrier. Disarm them. Make them live { for a time } in a sheltered bubble so to speak.

After they have grown accustomed to having children live without fear.

We start them on the road to joint efforts for their future.

It would take ... some time. Maybe even a year or two of occupation { I know it sounds dirty}. But when these tribes have shown they can be trusted not to hold the world hostage... we can pull out.

Again I apologize if I went OFF yesterday...

I tend to react emotionally when I see these kinds of horrors.

The outside intervention is coming. Arab leaders are united to move the Peace Plan through but want American involvement.
How can this be? How can they want the Infidel to help when on the other hand they want us out of the Middle East? Do they see the light? Will bringing in even more American influence fix the problem?