Neo's Disc Says Ai On It!!!!!!! - Matrix: Reloaded

Neo's Disc Says Ai On It!!!!!!!

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Posted by: Waterlathe

I put this on my other thread but I think it got lost. In Matrix 1, when Neo gave the optical disc to the guy for I think $2000., it said "DISC AI" on it. What could be on it for the Matrix world? Please!! Any thoughts? This is driving me crazy? I promise you. That's what it says! Why?

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Posted by: Cowgirl Jessie

Your questions fully confused me. but yeh, this is driving me crazy too

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Thanks for the response. I'm just thinking if we could figure out what might have been on the disc, it might help us to figure out this trilogy. I have heard that there is more in the next movie that takes place in that club from the beginning- the white rabbit, etc.. It sort of looked like it in the trailer too.

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Posted by: scimitar

maybe the whole cycle of AI is being invented again. i mean in the first film morpheus mentions that not long after 1999 the world marvelled after they created AI. and since the matrix is based on human history doesn't follow that someone within the matrix will eventually create AI. why can't it be Neo that helps start off AI's creation, he is a computer programmer after all and a skilled hacker as we r told in the first film, now that would be irony. if the creation of AI cycle is real that could mean the whole machine rebellion will happen again and maybe those machines will create their own matrix and so on... if u take this to be the case this could maybe support the matrix within a matrix idea because as we know this isn't the first time the cycle has happened...

i would just like to mention though that i definetely do not support the MWM idea as it would be a sh** ending to an otherwise brilliant story

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Posted by: neil_j

-omg-

that would explain so much... why he's 'the one'.

not because of some metaphysical mumbo jumbo but because he invented AI which gives him more control than anyone else there.

that would explain the subway train in the revolutions trailer that has the sign on it saying 'LOOP'....

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Posted by: StaticAge

wow! thats awesome... I never thought of it that way before... that is so cool...

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Scimitar!!!!!! I don't care for the MwM idea that much either, but do you know how brilliant you are ? This could be it !!!!

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Posted by: scimitar

that could be why they go back to that club in the third film, to find that guy neo gave the disc to so they can prevent the cycle from happening again by destroying it or maybe they use it to find a weakness in the computers in their original programming (ie the disc) and can use that to win the war.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking- doesn't this also support a real world where Neo made this thing in the first place?

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Posted by: scimitar

perhaps the reason why Neo isn't really all-powerful yet, is because his subconcious mind hasn't fully remembered the program of the ai, or maybe he didn't create it he only helped create it. the others like trinity could just have figured out the basic loopholes in the programm and how to slightly tweak it to there advantage whereas neo has more indepth knowledge hence him being much more powerful

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Posted by: Waterlathe

If Neo created-helped create- the AI, then you are right. He probably can destroy the Matrix. If it's repeating or MwM or not(I'm beginning to think it is, partly because of the 3.14 pi, repeats infinitely/ the window) this time is different and I bet he does it. His being the creator is the key. I really believe you hit it!!

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Posted by: neil_j

if you look at the hollowed book Neo takes the disc out of, it reads:

Simulacra and Simulation - a collection of essays by the French postmodernist philosopher Jean Baudrillard. He opens it to the section "on Nihlism" (meaning nothing is truly known, etc)

from some random site on the book: Baudrillard's concept of simulation is the creation of the real through conceptual or "mythological" models which have no connection or origin in reality. The model becomes the determinant of our perception of reality-- the real.

i'd say this book describes The Matrix to a tee. i'm off to read this book to look for clues.

how f'n ironic Neo put that CD there before he truly knew what the Matrix really was.

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Posted by: neil_j

(double post, sry)

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Posted by: scimitar

good stuff, i noticed the book before but could never find any information on it. muchos gracias neil... i'm gonna go find that book along with Plato - Republic and other philosphical style book to see if i can get a grasp on the whole concepts of these discusions. wow, i think this is the first time a science-fiction/kung fu film inspired me to go out of my way to read...

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Posted by: CoffeeJedi

how in the world could Neo invent AI? the machines rose to power OVER 600 YEARS AGO!!!!
Neo might be the one, but he's still a human being, born and raised in the matrix... so... sorry, thank you, drive through! NEXT!

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Posted by: scimitar

it could be Neo's past life or maybe it is all in his head or something, there could be lots of explanations... this is the matrix after all

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Posted by: scimitar

besides that isn't what i was saying... i said and i quote:


"in the first film morpheus mentions that not long after 1999 the world marvelled after they created AI. and since the matrix is based on human history doesn't follow that someone within the matrix will eventually create AI. why can't it be Neo that helps start off AI's creation, he is a computer programmer after all and a skilled hacker as we r told in the first film, now that would be irony."

that doesn't mean he invented the AI that is controling the current matrix, it means he could helped create a version of AI which would mean he would have a greater insight into the workings of the current AI as he helped create something similar, if not more basic hence he is better than all the other rebels... try reading all the thread rather than just skimming it!

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Posted by: neil_j

quote:
Originally posted by CoffeeJedi
how in the world could Neo invent AI? the machines rose to power OVER 600 YEARS AGO!!!!
Neo might be the one, but he's still a human being, born and raised in the matrix... so... sorry, thank you, drive through! NEXT!



The Oracle says in the first movie "sorry kid, maybe in another life"...

in Revolutions, a subway train is seen with the words "LOOP" on it...

it's definately possible. We'll just see in November.... I'm sure we'll all be equally surprised.
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Posted by: Borderliner

Look at it this way.

Real World-In the real world, Anderson creates AI, or whatever. Zion is created and rebels enter the Matrix. Zion is destroyed in 72 hours by a sentinel army.

Matrix-In the first Matrix, it eventually reaches the time where AI takes over, and Zion is built in the first Matrix also. The sentinels take out Zion in 72 hours.

Matrix 2-Repeat

Matrix 3-Repeat

Matrix 4-Repeat

Matrix 5-Repeat

Matrix 6-Somehow, something is altered in the Matrix which makes the course go slightly off. This probably has something to do with Agent Smith being freed, and the always unchecked antics of the anomoly. Zion is presently about halfway through the destruction process if I'm right.

The reason why this seems to work is because the third movie is named Revolutions, and it points in this way.

The reason why it can't work, is because it means one would have to ignore most of the talk with the Architect. It would've made for a great twist though.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

But the Architect could be lying or wrong. I think this is pi- infinity- a loop and it will repeat until something is different I believe that Neo played a part in creating the AI that began the trap some how. Yes, we got into Simulacra and Simulation on my old thread "What is Real" and I've seen it on some others. It hard but amazing stuff, and I think you're right- Neo put it there for a reason(or the brothers did). I am thinking they're caught in a loop man triggered somehow. Not so much a MwM but a repeating loop. This is still missing something though....

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Looking at someone's script link (sorry, I don't remember who's, but thanks much!!)- "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. (pi 3.14, the time for thewindow to the Source?)You are the eventuality of an anomaly which, despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision...that remains a burden asiduously avoided..it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control, which has led you inexorably here." I had recently put this on the pi thread, to say how what the architect said does match with the looping theory. I think. I only wish answers. I am not attached to any theory. And this one has been built through many people's input, especially Scimatar and someone here in my "real" world.

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Posted by: Cowgirl Jessie

I fully believe that that neo most have figured out how to create AI. That explains the MWM even thought itd be the shittest movie with that kinda ending. But now i fully understand it. You rock!

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Thank you Cowgirl, and thanks to everyone who helped me here, especially Scimitar. I am writing up my own theory--Lightbringer and I are- and hope to post it maybe Friday, so you guys can help us find the holes and tell us what you think. Ta!!!

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Posted by: Spytap

What if "The one" does not refer to, as we all think immediately, Neo as "The savior, the prophesied person, or the only one," but rather, in terms of mathematics, relegated to teh pi equasion, he is a part of the number that begins the repeating process. He is a number. If the world is 3.14159... he is the 1. He is a number that begins a repeated process. He is the remainder of the equasion of a circle, in the terms that for pi R squared, the remainder begins with the number 1.
Forgive me if this is in the "pi thread" as I am new here (second post) and have not had time to peruse every thread.

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Posted by: StaticAge

I do not believe the MWM theory holds any water. But the loop idea has me thinking a lot.

Someone else noticed T Anderson "wakes up" inside the Matrix 5 times: at his desk, in bed etc. What if each time the Matrix is reset, that is where the loop starts- each time for each one of the wakings.

Think about this: Time is an important issue: the One must reinsert at a specific time and reload the Matrix.

If the 5 previous Ones carried this out and reloaded the Matrix, that means that the time line running in the simulation in the year 1999 stops each time at the same specified point.

This time Neo doesnt reload the matrix- the timeline is continuing to go on until the anomaly causes the system to crash.

Iss there a reason the Architect needs the simulated timeline to stop at a certain point?

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Posted by: weezie1317

The looping theories are very interesting, but it's not possible that teh Matrix is looping every 72 hours. Neo has been in the real world for 6 months. Morpheus said they have freed more people in the past 6 months. I like the idea that Neo created or worked on creating AI, but the timeline doesn't work for a 72 hour looping window.

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Posted by: speller

How in the world could Neo have invented A.I.?
The machines rose to power over 600 years ago.
Neo could be the one, but he is still a human being, born and raised in the matrix.
Therefore, I don't agree withyou.

P.S.

YOU'VE HIT IT SPOT ON. I shouldn't really say this but I worked on it... You know what I'm hinting at

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Posted by: StaticAge

Hmm... cryptic. Probably unbelievable too, but I have thought about the problem of 72 hrsnot being equal to 600 years.

I think I had it backwards: The Matrix IS supposed to stop and be reloaded at a specified exact time, but each vesion has a slightly different time.

Each time Mr Anderson awakens while inside the Matrix, it is at one of those specific times.

Perhaps this has something to do with why he goes into a coma after refusing to reload the Matrix?

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Posted by: speller

That's cryptic, and probably unbelievable. I have thought about the problem of the 72 hours not being equal to 600 years.

I think I had it backwards. The matrix is supposed to stop and be reloaded at a specific point in time, but each version, has a slightly different time.

Each time Mr. Anderson awakens while inside the Matrix, it is at one of those specific times.

Perhaps this has something to do with why he goes into a coma, after refusing to reload the Matrix. Does anyone agree?

p.s.
Your theory is completely incorrect you're an idiot.

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Posted by: StaticAge

quote:
Originally posted by speller
p.s.
Your theory is completely incorrect you're an idiot.
Wow... okay then- back it up. If you really have inside knowledge, I'm calling you on it. Put up or shut up. Whose the fool now?
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Posted by: Waterlathe

I don't understand the comments on 600 years, 72 hrs etc. I mean why CoffeJedi brought it up. What does it have to do with Neo creating AI in the Matrix?

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Posted by: StaticAge

The cycle of the Matrix is roughly about 100 years each time before it gets reloaded, not simply 72 hours. So if the scene with Neo's disk having "ai" on it means anything, or his waking scenes, it cant be because thats where the history has a loop in it.

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Posted by: db85usa

i think in revolutions will come down to the final battle between smith and neo. and in the end... knowing the Wachowski bros.

i believe neo is (the one) but everyone in zion think theyre screwed and all hope is lost... and in revolutions I think Neo will fight for humanity anyway.

I think it will be full of twists and turns and will have a dark, powerful, and emotional ending either way if the machines prevail or either Neo and co. do the impossible and free all of humanity.

But... looking at the matrix online game (mmog)... the wachowski bros. wanted to write this game and let fans virtually play the game just like the movies... and in the description of the game -- it takes place after matrix revolutions... and there is absolutely NO real world. the matrix(s) still exists.

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Posted by: weezie1317

I don't know.... I doubt the Wachowski brothers would give away the ending to teh movie in a video game.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Thanks StaticAge, I think you guys have some great ideas. I think Coffee jumped to conclusions. I was thinking more in terms of an ongoing loop where a new Neo figure keeps inventing AI- the problem will begin again each time so the system has to do something about it- to prevent a MwM or onion effect or the loops, because it will crash the Matrix. I never meant our Neo invented the oringinal AI. I think it was Scimatar (when I try to look I lose what I've written) who said maybe Neo just did an imortant iimprovement or something.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

StaticAge has started a new AI thread for those who think it means something.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Just looked again--I studied every frame- Upon closer inspection the disc he sold at the door is the same disc that he pulled from the book. The disc label could possibly say Disc 67or 87or AI. It's difficult to tell because of the lighting, angle of the camera, and motion-blur of the frame. So anyone could be right. There are insightful pictures posted on new AI thread. However this doesn't resolve the question of whether a Neo is the creator of AI. I know the MwM people don't like this idea, but all theories should be considered as equals.

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Posted by: ShivaDog

Waterlathe: Whether is says DISC AI or not, the W-Bros. should have done it. Keep up the good work!

To me, if you are correct, and a disc being information...that would make Troy a prime candidate for the guy in the Merovingian's restaurant. Buy it for $2,000 and sell it for ....30 pieces of silver perhaps?

Just some thoughts.......

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Posted by: StaticAge

quote:
Originally posted by ShivaDog
Waterlathe: Whether is says DISC AI or not, the W-Bros. should have done it. Keep up the good work!

To me, if you are correct, and a disc being information...that would make Troy a prime candidate for the guy in the Merovingian's restaurant. Buy it for $2,000 and sell it for ....30 pieces of silver perhaps?

Just some thoughts.......
hahaha... duude, that is a rich speculation... i
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Posted by: ShivaDog

quote:
Originally posted by StaticAge
hahaha... duude, that is a rich speculation... i


Hey...just trying to keep up with the Static Man in the speculation department!

Seriously though, The Merovigian is a trafficker in information...don't remember his exact quote.

Last thought...the real speculation at this point is whether or not the disc says DISC AI.....I am a bit skeptical but I was hoping it was an undeniable fact.

Juggling a lot of balls in the air...how about you? hahaha
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Posted by: Waterlathe

ShivaDog, thanks I needed that. That is such a great idea about the guy in the restaurant being Troy! I have been trying to fugure out who he could be. Makes total sense!

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Posted by: icynelly

Man I am not sure. I did it frame by frame and sometimes it reads SAT. Am I the only fool to see that? IT could make sense. Maybe that orange haired fool is dumb and needs to pass his SATS and neo got the answers or some hack thingy. But sometimes it does LOOK like AI. There is no proof because I tried zooming, 1/8 the speed, and moving the camera around and it is just not clear enough.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

I'm trying to get a screenshot of the frame I am speaking of to post here. I can't understand how the same disc can say two different thing so I thought they were two different discs. I have a huge tv and I can see the AI clearly. The frames around it are blurry and it sounds like you found the correct frame. It could be a trick of light or something but I don't even see three letters in that frame- just AI. Thats funny about the SAT- could be, I'll have a look. Maybe it doesn't matter, but I would really like to get that shot on here so you guys can what I see and tell me if its not AI.

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Three frames progressively clearer.

http://users.adelphia.net/~logicprobeent/Images/crop1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~logicprobeent/Images/crop2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~logicprobeent/Images/crop3.jpg

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Posted by: hejimony

This makes so much sense, and is so characteristic of the Wachowski's, that I absolutely believe it now. What bugged me about alot of the Pi symbolism on other threads was what I thought were assumptions about the designer of AI and how this designer made the system work (through the repetition of the one). But this detail so exactly confirms the theory, that if the W's didn't put it in, then they should have

Awesome work to all you folks who figured this out

I've gotta go and cool my brain...

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Posted by: benma

quote:
Originally posted by scimitar
good stuff, i noticed the book before but could never find any information on it. muchos gracias neil... i'm gonna go find that book along with Plato - Republic and other philosphical style book to see if i can get a grasp on the whole concepts of these discusions. wow, i think this is the first time a science-fiction/kung fu film inspired me to go out of my way to read...


Scimitar:
try this book:
The Matrix and Philosphy: Welcome to the desert of the real.
Edited by Wiliam Irwin. ISBN#0-8126-9502-X

It was written after M1, but has alot of the relevant theories/philosophies alluded to in M1 that are relevant in M2. It has chapters on Plato, metaphysics, buddhist philosphy, Nihilism, Descartes among others. Enjoy,
b
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Posted by: vito

Maybe its A1 not AI....

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Posted by: Waterlathe

Yeah, we've been through the AI or A1 stuff. This find on the disc has three threads of comments i think. It just depends on what you see and your reasoning.

Thanks Hejimony, my friend and I found it about two and a half- three weeks ago when we were looking at the Simulacra and Simulation book, in M1.

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Posted by: legend73

I think that the programmer of AI (maybe Neo himself) being into the Matrix makes a lot of sense. If the Matrix itself is a reproduction of the world in 1999, i think the machines should have reproduced exactly the same world, including humans and not only the buildings. What if they put Mr.Bean as President, or a mafia boss in the place of the Pope? The simulation should have failed. So,i think they had to reproduce every single man. And there's another point: this means they knew who was the One.

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