| Posted by: Ringtoss12 | | The conflict is undoubtedly complicated, but I've been wondering, how is that Muslims seem to blame Israel for all of their problems when it is their Muslim brethren that refused to give them refuge after they were displaced?
Now, I understand that not all Muslims have identical beliefs, but since the nations immediately surrounding Israel are Islamic first and foremost it would seem to me that they would want to care for other Muslims and not place them in refugee camps. After all, didn't the Arab leaders declare the war in the name of Islam? | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: h@ts | |
| quote: |
| Ringtoss12 said this in post #1 :The conflict is undoubtedly complicated, but I've been wondering, how is that Muslims seem to blame Israel for all of their problems when it is their Muslim brethren that refused to give them refuge after they were displaced? |
"displaced" what does displaced mean, and who did the displacing? Why do people get annoyed when they get displaced. Are they justified in getting annoyed, or should they accept being displaced and put in camps and ruled and controlled by another nation, much like Americans enjoyed being ruled and controlled by the British all those years ago (well until they got fed up).
| quote: |
| Now, I understand that not all Muslims have identical beliefs, but since the nations immediately surrounding Israel are Islamic first and foremost it would seem to me that they would want to care for other Muslims and not place them in refugee camps. |
Totally selfish of them. Here's a solution - can't the US take them? There are Muslims in the US, or are they selfish too?
| quote: |
| After all, didn't the Arab leaders declare the war in the name of Islam? |
These battle cries and excuses to get ordinary people to go and fight and support wars, they do make you laugh don't they
Leaders willl generally say anything to get the masses to do their bidding. Remember when Bush said - we must attack Iraq because they'll destroy America with their WMDs.
Works every time. 
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Ringtoss12 | | H@ts,
I don't understand why you're patronizing me. I am genuinely curious. As for the why the US doesn't take them, the US wasn't the one declaring war to push the Jews into the sea to make a land for Muslims. That doesn't mean that the US shouldn't do more to help, but as far as I can tell, it wasn't the US who messed up in the first place. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: h@ts | | Don't you think "how is that Muslims seem to blame Israel for all of their problems" is a loaded question? What particular Muslims are you talking about? Despite your view that the Isrealis are the victims in the region, it is in fact the Palestinians who are being pushed "into the sea". | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Ringtoss12 | | My apologies, I didn't mean to load it, I did want it to be broad enough that you would have enough flexibility to respond how you want. And if you're so confident that I'm wrong, could you enlighten me and tell me how so I won't be so ignorant in the future? | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: oneofpeace | | Ringtoss don’t apologize for asking an intelligent and obvious question. With that response h@ts gave you, he should be a politician himself.
So how about some facts here? The Palestinians are neither the first nor the last refugees in the history of this planet but they do indeed hold the record for being the longest. Why is that? Glad you asked.
H@ts always fade back to his patronizing persona when asked about the way Arabs are treating Palestinians. Palestinians are forbidden to live, work, go to school, used hospitals or even marry another Arab in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt. They get their gasoline, food & humanitarian aid from Israel and the West while they get their guns, bullets and explosive vests from Arab/Muslims all over the M.E.
Now it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why Palestinians are so dependant on Israel for their survival and why they’re still in those camps today. Their plight could have been resolved decades ago by being absorbed into Jordan. After all, Jordan got ¾ of the land they screamed about Israel stealing in the first place but I forgot…..Palestinians aren’t even allowed to use the public toilet in Jordan. And this too is all Israel’s fault!!!!! | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Ringtoss12 | | See, but this is my point! Why/how did this happen? As far as I can tell, Islam is a very peaceful religion, but it seems that they cannot come together on any one topic other than the bloodshed of Israelis and Westerners. How can we solve this? Community leaders, schools, parents and every other person that holds influence over the next generation is not preaching peace, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Palestinian schools don't teach that there is an Israel, etc.
Any ideas? | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: h@ts | |
| quote: |
Ringtoss12 said this in post #7 :
Community leaders, schools, parents and every other person that holds influence over the next generation is not preaching peace, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Palestinian schools don't teach that there is an Israel, etc.
Any ideas? |
Occupation breeds anger, hatred, and resentment, which inevitably leads to violence, and the fact that this conflict has been going on for decades means whole generations of Palestinians know nothing but Israeli occupation, control and power over them.
What you're asking of the Palestinians is for them to recognise the very people who have occupied and controlled and held that power over just about every aspect of their lives for so long. Do you think, given the complete imbalance in power, this is the best or even a workable starting point for peace? As the decades have proved, asking the Palestinians to accept Israel has achieved only one thing - a complete block on any move towards peace, and a worsening crisis.
If you turn this round and try to achieve some kind of peace first, ignoring this stumbling block, then who knows, extremists on both sides may lose some of their attraction, and recognition of Israel may actually stand a better chance of coming into being. Peace is what is important, not some formal recognition that is never going to happen.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: h@ts | |
| quote: |
oneofpeace said this in post #6 :
when asked about the way Arabs are treating Palestinians. Palestinians are forbidden to live, work, go to school, used hospitals or even marry another Arab in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt. They get their gasoline, food & humanitarian aid from Israel and the West while they get their guns, bullets and explosive vests from Arab/Muslims all over the M.E. |
Pointing out how bad Arabs treat the Palestinians does not excuse the way the Israelis treat the Palestinians.
As you keep on trying to show, Arab Muslims are by nature just bad people who's whole raison detre is violence and killing. Thing is I'm not buying into your utterly hopeless view of the Middle East.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
| quote: |
h@ts wrote
What you're asking of the Palestinians is for them to recognise the very people who have occupied and controlled and held that power over just about every aspect of their lives for so long.
|
And as I pointed out, it’s not Israel’s fault that Palestinians are so dependant on them. As you have said in other posts, Israel is trying to wipe the Palestinians off the map. So why would they create a dependency on themselves in doing so? That makes absolutely no sense.
| quote: |
As the decades have proved, asking the Palestinians to accept Israel has achieved only one thing - a complete block on any move towards peace, and a worsening crisis.
|
At last, common ground but I’m sure for different reasons. Asking the Palestinians to accept Israel’s existence has netted them nothing but more miseries and Israel more gains. So even a rat, if shocked on the nose enough times with choose a different path in the maze. Why continue on the same path and expect different results?
| quote: |
If you turn this round and try to achieve some kind of peace first, ignoring this stumbling block, then who knows, extremists on both sides may lose some of their attraction, and recognition of Israel may actually stand a better chance of coming into being….Peace is what is important, not some formal recognition that is never going to happen.
|
How can you have peace with enemy you won’t even recognize exist? Who do you recognize peace with, nonexistence? Is there some precedent that I don’t know about where this has been achieved?
So if asking them to recognize Israel is such a stumbling block, then it’s hopeless because the answer lies within them not Israel.
| quote: |
Pointing out how bad Arabs treat the Palestinians does not excuse the way the Israelis treat the Palestinians.
|
Never said that but we do hear deafening screams about how bad Israel is treating Palestinians and nothing of how they treat themselves. I guess their motto is “if my enemy treats me bad, you can treat me worse…as long as you’re my brother”.
| quote: |
As you keep on trying to show, Arab Muslims are by nature just bad people who's whole raison detre is violence and killing. Thing is I'm not buying into your utterly hopeless view of the Middle East.
|
Once again I never asserted such, you did. But since you’ve mentioned it, as we look around the world today, we see some of the worse sins committed against another. Rwanda, Darfur, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Somalia, Czechs, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Indonesia, Iran, Uganda, Briton, I mean the list goes on. What country hasn’t been violently affected by Islamic extremisms?
Now while you’re “not buying into” my assertion of “utter hopelessness” I do have a rather significant point. And that being, until recognition of Israel is accepted within the Muslim world (and that looks very slim), there will never be peace. And therein lays the root of this conflict.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
| quote: |
Ringtoss wrote
See, but this is my point! Why/how did this happen? As far as I can tell, Islam is a very peaceful religion, but it seems that they cannot come together on any one topic other than the bloodshed of Israelis and Westerners. How can we solve this? Community leaders, schools, parents and every other person that holds influence over the next generation is not preaching peace, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Palestinian schools don't teach that there is an Israel, etc.
Any ideas?
|
Good perception of the issues Ring. You know, the most obvious isn’t always going to be accepted because people have built their power structures on top of anarchy. To suddenly have a remedy would mean they are rendered of no further use and that can’t happen.
The single most thing Palestinians can do to help themselves is to stop attacking Israel. Doing so has netted them nothing but more agony. However, it simply won’t happen when you have so many militias and the breeding of violence into the psyches of the next generations.
Israel, although they have absolutely no incentive to do so, can stop building settlements in the WB. As some may want to pretend that this is the source of the conflict, it is not. However it would show Israel’s intent to commit to peace.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: ishlamic Salami | | 250,000 so-called "palestinians" were ejected from Kuwait (arab brothers) for their misguided, ridiculous and assinine support of saddam hussein
Israel needs to start ejecting | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Aretha's doctor | |
| quote: |
Ringtoss12 said this in post #1 :
The conflict is undoubtedly complicated, but I've been wondering, how is that Muslims seem to blame Israel for all of their problems when it is their Muslim brethren that refused to give them refuge after they were displaced?
Now, I understand that not all Muslims have identical beliefs, but since the nations immediately surrounding Israel are Islamic first and foremost it would seem to me that they would want to care for other Muslims and not place them in refugee camps. After all, didn't the Arab leaders declare the war in the name of Islam? |
I think that you're too smart for most people to understand.
My unqualified (but far from ignorant) reply is that those other Arab countries are using the palestinians as pawns. But more than that.
I've travelled quit a lot in the Arab world and most of those countries consider palestinians "trouble makers". They're just not very popular wherever they are. I'm not even going to blame them for their own situation but that's the way the situation seems to be today.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Aretha's doctor | |
| quote: |
h@ts said this in post #2 :
"displaced" what does displaced mean, and who did the displacing? Why do people get annoyed when they get displaced. Are they justified in getting annoyed, or should they accept being displaced and put in camps and ruled and controlled by another nation, much like Americans enjoyed being ruled and controlled by the British all those years ago |
I hope to God that you're not going to tell us that those "Americans" were "displaced, ruled and controlled by another nation!" If that's your idea then I must remind you of a certain bunch of people called "indians"!
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Aretha's doctor | |
| quote: |
Ringtoss12 said this in post #7 :
As far as I can tell, Islam is a very peaceful religion, |
Yes, but look at Al Queida. Christianity is also a peacful religion but look at northern ireland and Yugoslavia. Hinduism is also a peacful religion but look at the Indian/Pakistan conflict.
Actually if you disregard biblical times, it's the Jews who are the most peacful people of the world.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Zman001 | |
| quote: |
h@ts said this in post #4 :
Don't you think "how is that Muslims seem to blame Israel for all of their problems" is a loaded question? What particular Muslims are you talking about? Despite your view that the Isrealis are the victims in the region, it is in fact the Palestinians who are being pushed "into the sea". |
Personally, I think Palestine is a joke society.....a 3rd world backwater with no value to the emerging global society, Isreal OTOH is a economic and military powerhouse.
My point is this....why are people supporting Palestine and questioning anything Israel does...Israel are the good guys.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Dekka00 | | I think it's counter-productive to call one group "the good guys" and the other group "the bad guys."
Especially on the basis that "the good guys" are the richer and stronger ones. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Bridgemaster | |
| quote: |
Dekka00 said this in post #17 :
I think it's counter-productive to call one group "the good guys" and the other group "the bad guys."
Especially on the basis that "the good guys" are the richer and stronger ones. |
How about if we put it in terms like this: One side targets civillians and the other side targets terrorists/insurgents/freedom fighters/mujahadeen?
And please don't reply wih reports of collateral damage....we are only talking about intent.
Nice mustache....reminds me of an old girlfriend! ( ahhh....to be young and desperate )
| | Reply To this Message
|
Israel & Palestine Forum: Israel, Opinions?
|