Should 15 captives make money while still serving? |
| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Captives' media fees spark fury
Leading Seaman Faye Turney
Faye Turney is said to have a deal worth more than £100,000
Lt Carman speaks
The Ministry of Defence's decision to allow Royal Navy personnel held captive by Iran to sell their stories has sparked anger and unease.
Opposition MPs said the move was undignified while relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq have voiced opposition.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6537103.stm |
Anyone care to guess why the MOD are allowing the sailors and marines to sell their stories to the highest bidder while still on active duty? This to me stinks of Downing street interference, and a sad attempt to somehow get back at Iran who won the propaganda battle during the 13 day incident.
Allowing this sets a very bad president. If these 15 are allowed to cash in while serving why shouldn't others start thinking about contacting agents to sell their stories too?
This whole thing has badly back-fired in the government and MOD's face, with condemnation coming from all angles. And rather than showing up the Iranian government - which I suspect was the hope - it has just added to the humiliation and embarrassment of this whole incident and everyone involved.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | As far as I am concerned there are things people want to know abput waht happend and I think that it's ok for the sailors to sahre thier stories with the public but not for financial that's is what is annoying people that Faye Turney and lets be honest she is the main culprit in all this is about to pick up 100K because she was captured and she desrves sweet FA.
Though to be honest it is not all the sailors at least 3 marines have offered thier story for nothing or a donation to Earl Haig or some veterans group which was rejevte by the MOD. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | | lodgebo -
Does the MOD usual allow military personnel to sell their stories while they're still serving, and if not why are they allowing it in this case?
The BBC is now saying the MOD is reviewing rules about what's happened because of the outcry it's caused.
What I'm asking is is this story selling a PR exercise on behalf of the the government and the MOD because of the criticism they received for allowing the personnel to be captured, and the subsequent "humiliation"?
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MoD reviews sale of media stories
The Ministry of Defence is to review rules allowing personnel to sell stories to the media following the row over the Navy crew held by Iran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6538921.stm |
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | This is the first time I have heard of people in service selling stories most people leave service and sell stories Andy McNab and Bravo Two Zero being a good example ( good book as well), howevere there is no set rule on the situation as I understand it.
Also what exactly was the criticism the MOD got for Iran kidnapping our sailors? tyes there were differing views on the best solutionj but no criticism of the MOD for the kidnapping it was a situation caused by Iran that was out of the hands of the MOD, Can't criticise themor naval high command they copuld not have thought a UK boat in Iraqi waters would be kidnapped by Iranian revolutionary guard. I never saw any criticism of the UK.
As for PR battle's well maybe but only the most ignorant person will belive the Iraninas are the good gusy in this and treated our people with the "respect" theysay they did | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #2 :
Why are we even trying to win win this PR battle with Iran? No doubt it wasn't pleasant for the captives, but they were not "tortured" in the same sense as the torture handed out at places like Abu Grahb and Guantanamo Bay, as some of the 15 are now claiming.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42779000/jpg/_42779063_bbctabletennis1.jpg
Iranian television released video showing the sailors relaxing |
I don't see it as just a PR battle. It is much closer to a real battle in a run-up to a larger confrontation with Iran. Notice that Iran is not only not hiding their nuclear program, but they are openly celebrating it and updating us with progress reports such as the number of centrifuges they have on line.
And in this battle, Iran was the clear victor while Britain lost with the total appeasement of all their players. This was Iran testing the resolve of Britain and the U.S. The test showed them the resolve was pretty soft. It would have been unfortunate if the 15 sailors were tortured, killed, or imprisoned, but this outcome is worse.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | There's no way they should be able to pimp their memoirs while still serving.
Makes you wonder how many kids are going to drop their guns so they can be taken prisoner, given a heroe's welcome 2 weeks later and sign a six figure book deal for their trouble.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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lodgebo said this in post #5 :
[B]Also what exactly was the criticism the MOD got for Iran kidnapping our sailors? |
There were questions asked why the boat had no support. There was a helicopter with it for some time but it flew back to the ship, leaving this patrol boat alone, although we knew this kind of incident was very possibile as something similar happened not that long ago.
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| the Iraninas are the good gusy in this and treated our people with the "respect" theysay they did |
The exact reason why I suspect their stories were allowed to be sold to the media, although it has backfired, as the fees paid have caused a lot of disgust in the UK, which again the Iranians will be enjoying immensely.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | The criticisms were answered ther boat ahd no support because it was not in a combat situation the marines ahd adequate arms for any small - medium scale skirmish. The helicoptpr flew back because it cvould co nothin it was a Sea King and you know as well as I that those are not armed it flew back to alert the Cornwall it was either that or risk being blown out the sky. You are right it did happen before but since then steps have been taken to ensure thet we are deefinitly in the right area ( whiuch we have been on both occasions) in fact this has happend twice and twice IOran has been the aggressor.
I don't think anyone sees Iran as the good guys in this at all. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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lodgebo said this in post #9 :
I don't think anyone sees Iran as the good guys in this at all. |
Don't you think plenty of people in the Middle East, including a lot of people in Iraq, will see Iran as the good guys in this situation? The more we keep claiming torture (to get back at Iran) the more we're reminded how farcical it is compared to Abu Grahb, and Guantanamo Bay.
And to make matters worse we've just handed Iran another gift on a plate - the embarrassing mess of these sailors being allowed to sell their stories, Faye Turney getting £100,000 from the Sun, followed by the government rushing to change the rules and tonight military personnel are now banned from selling their stories. The MOD and the government seem in utter turmoil.
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| Posted by: White Tiger | | The UK does not have Guantanamo Bay, it is a US run thing, and has protested against the way prisoners are treated in Guantanamo Bay many times so your arguement about the British complaining about Abu Grahb compared to Guantanamo Bay does not really have precident.
I personnally blame the media itself for the continued and inhanced coverage of the stories of these british personnell. It is important to know how Iran treated them so that the government knows how to deal with Iran in the future but nobody should sell a story like this to the press.
By allowing these sailors sell their stories it make the British look like they are clutching at straws, so to speak, in a way to make Iran look like the bad guy ((which they probably are)). | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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White Tiger said this in post #11 :
The UK does not have Guantanamo Bay, it is a US run thing, and has protested against the way prisoners are treated in Guantanamo Bay many times so your arguement about the British complaining about Abu Grahb compared to Guantanamo Bay does not really have precident. |
You're right, except we are guilty by association, as in Blair declares his stand with Bush, shoulder to shoulder, which has been far stronger than the futile protests we've made against what's been going on at Guantanamo bay.
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| I personnally blame the media itself for the continued and inhanced coverage of the stories of these british personnell. |
I'd agree with that. The media offered money when it shouldn't, and because Murdoch's Sun got the exclusive, the other's no doubt jealous, laid into the sailors. But where was the advice from the MOD and government? This whole shoddy affair reeks of Blair's hand.
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| It is important to know how Iran treated them so that the government knows how to deal with Iran in the future but nobody should sell a story like this to the press. |
Again I'd agree but I can't think of a worse way it could have been presented to the world - headline exclusives for £100,000. What does that say about how low our culture is capable of sinking?
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| By allowing these sailors sell their stories it make the British look like they are clutching at straws, so to speak, in a way to make Iran look like the bad guy ((which they probably are)). |
As I said, all they've done by screaming torture, when we've all seen the Abu Grahb pictures is make the West, especially in places like the Middle East, look ridiculous, petty and weak.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | | When I think of torture, it is not the tarnishing of self esteem and picture making theatrics of Abu Grahb that first comes to mind. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #13 :
When I think of torture, it is not the tarnishing of self esteem and picture making theatrics of Abu Grahb that first comes to mind. |
Please explain what you mean by tarnishing of self esteem and picture making theatrics?
You can view some of the Abu Grahb photographs at the link below but they are not for the squeemish, and these were the photographs that got out. There were worse ones that were stopped.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/
Here's a few examples if you don't want to look at the photographs.
- Pouring phosphoric acid on detainees
- Sodomization of detainees with a baton
- Tying ropes to the detainees' legs or penises and dragging them across the floor.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | Man, that's rough. Those pics aren't for the faint of heart.
Good point though man.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | At this very moment the US is holding Iranian revolutionary guardsmen. Now going by what H@ts is saying id the US were to torture them then Iran has no complaint because they tortured our sailors. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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lodgebo said this in post #16 :
At this very moment the US is holding Iranian revolutionary guardsmen. Now going by what H@ts is saying id the US were to torture them then Iran has no complaint because they tortured our sailors. |
Why's that? We complained about the treatment the UK personnel received. I expect the Iranians are being held in isolation, blindfolded, and interrogated etc. Is that torture?
I'm talking about whether it was wise to use the sailor's experience to continue this PR battle with Iran that we've already lost. The government realise yesterday that it was a bad idea and have put a stop to any more stories coming out.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #17 :
Why's that? We complained about the treatment the UK personnel received. I expect the Iranians are being held in isolation, blindfolded, and interrogated etc. Is that torture?
I'm talking about whether it was wise to use the sailor's experience to continue this PR battle with Iran that we've already lost. The government realise yesterday that it was a bad idea and have put a stop to any more stories coming out. |
Are you suggesting that the sailors publishing their stories will cast Iran in a bad light, and therefore weaken Iran's victory in the PR battle? I am not so sure it would go in that direction with the sailors bad mouthing Iran. Stories praising Iran for its tolerance would probably sell better to the British market.
If that were the case, then failing to resist Iran, selling their stories to a tabloid market, and making the stories about politically correct conflict resolution 101 would all fit perfectly together in a wonderfully thematic way.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #18 :
Are you suggesting that the sailors publishing their stories will cast Iran in a bad light, and therefore weaken Iran's victory in the PR battle? |
Since not one person has had the decency to admit they okayed the selling of the stories I don't know who's idea it was, although I would not be surprised if Downing Street was involved, and yes it was for the sole purpose of getting back at Iran.
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| Stories praising Iran for its tolerance would probably sell better to the British market. |
The Iranians did a good job of that themselves. We on the other hand wouldn't shut up about it and thought we'd show them Iranians how PR should be done, and encouraged and allowed the sailors to sell their stories and just gifted Iran yet more good PR by making us look bad. It was a shambles.
Look at it this way - Iran used these sailors and when they returned so did we. Only they did it better.
btw - I've nothing at all against military personnel making money out of the experiences they've had in the forces. But they should wait till they've left.
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| Posted by: h@ts | | This from the BBC today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6544567.stm
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'Buck stops with me' says Browne
Des Browne: In hindsight could have stopped the sales
The defence secretary says he takes full responsibility for decisions which allowed the 15 sailors and marines held by the Iranians to sell their stories.
Des Browne, speaking for the first time since the row, said with hindsight he could have done things differently and said "ultimately, the buck stops here". |
Liberal Democrats Chris Huhne:
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said the armed forces wanted capable and competent leadership, but it had been a "complete mess up".
He said: "The fact that both Des Browne and the prime minister were informed about this and that their alarm bells were not ringing about the implications for example, for people in armed services who have been injured, people in the families of service personnel who've had people killed on active service... does seem to me extraordinary." |
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Post-9/11 Era Forum: Should 15 captives make money while still serving?
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