Tony Blair Refuse to Apologize for United Kingdom's Role in Slavery

Racism Forum

Prime Minister Tony Blair wrote in local newspaper to say how "profoundly shameful" the slave trade was and expresed "sorrow" that it ever happened but stopped short of giving an apology or some kind of compensation for descendants of those victimized by it.

Black activists and Human rights groups say Blairs careful language reflects UK governments fear of payiing large amount of reparation.

" It is no longer justified to ignore this question. Those who do so are complicit in the genocide and covering up of the crimes against African people and her descendants worldwide" - Esther Stanfield, vice chair of pan-African Reparations Coalition in Europe

Malcolm... should -I- apologize for the United State's role in slavery? I wasn't even alive during that time. I'm sorry that it ever happened... but, I don't need to apologize for something that I didn't do.

Tony Blair didn't cause slavery in the UK... why does he need to apologize for something that OTHERS have done?

You have a bone to pick, with the entire world... and you're really going about it the wrong way. Take the advice that Sierradaddy has taken time out when he's been on here, to give to you, multiple times, and learn from it... because he gave you some great pearls of wisdom. You just don't seem to listen. It's to the point where I believe one of two things about you... and I don't know that I care which one it actually is.

1 - You are a black man who hates the world, and everyone in it. You blame everyone for what has happened to black people, from YEARS past, whether they are "guilty" of it, or not.

2 - You are some punk kid, who's getting his lonely kicks off out of trying to pretend to make up issues that seem to bother you, just to see if you can stir up problems.

I wonder what other boards you attend and post all of this same stuff, to see what sort of a rise you will get out of others.

It says a lot that it was a local newspaper not a national one because in the main people of all colurs don't bleive that compensation is a worthwhile thing to do. Also how old is this stroy I only ask because the PM has been on holiday since December and has been busy with Iraq, Afghanistan, cash for honours scandel and illgal bungs to S.Arabia and N.Ireland devolution problems before he went away.

Anyway what this has to do with US foreign policy is beyond me but Malcolm have you even looked at the UK's current policies regarding the countires that they took slaves from? and have you looked at the history of the abolition of the slave trade? because if you did you might change your tune.

A lot of slaves did not actually come from Africa some came from the Carribean and Pakistan and India and yes there was a number that came from some West African states. Anyway reghardless of that after the collapse of the Empire and the abolition of the slave trade it would hve been very easy to wave goodbye to these countries but we did not in fact Malcolm to this day former UK colonies recieve economic, political and trade benefits with the UK that most countries could only dream of. In fact it was these trade benefits that led to the UK having a major arguemnt with the USA and Brazil over the so called banana wars in the 90's an arguemnt which almost led the UK from being excluded from the WTO. These countries also know that if they were attacked ( with the possible exception of Pakuistan and India) then the UK would be the first country to send troops to help. So while you are screaming about wanting a big pay day for anyone who may have been a slave think about the benefits that the countries wqe took slaves from receive and ask yourself does that not coiunt in any way as an apology. I thinkn it's better that a whole community thrives as opposed to a few hundred people who have not suffred in any way.

Also as we have been through this many times before Scotland ( part fo the UK) led the way in the abolition of slaves and treatment of former slaves so does that makes us exempt or do we pay less because we assisted former slaves when we had no obligtion to?

Then there are the other issues with these slave payments firstly it's is going to be difficult to prove that you were a descendent of a slave, seceondly even if you could how much are we talking per person what if you were only a slave for 2 years then slavery was abolished do you get less?

More controverisially if you are the descendent of a slave living in the UK and you feel compelled to sue the UK then as far as I am concerned you should pay the UK back for all the things you have got for free so that would be healthcare, education, public sector jobs ( where applicable) social security payments etc etc You know all the stuff you are entiltled to as a UK citizen.

Now because after all you are only here because of a cruel twist of fate your ancestors never wanted to be here and if you are suing the country your family have made home for generations then I assume you don't want to be here either so maybe when you get your cheque ( worth a big fat zero after our expenses in fact we would probably hit you with a bill) we could arrange that you can fly back to your country of origin as far as I am concerned if you have the brass neck to sue your own country for an issue which you have never suffered from in fact in some ways maybe have benefited from then you are as good as a traitor and the UK has no place for you.

However if we are going to start suing everyone for the past then these people are going to have to get in line because I think we will be suing Italy for the slaves the Romans took from England however England won't have it long because Scots that were enslaved or descendentsof those that lost everything during English invasions will no doubt sue for those damages. Undetrred The UK will find the money and go to the UN and demand that Germanies post WW2 guilt clause is reactivated and cher ching we are back in the money now that we have paid off all the Scots, Irish and Welsh descendents of slaves we can also pay off the familes of past slaves sadly howevere that means that our aid to these African and Carreibean countries has to stop because we can't afford both which results in Children dying from sarvation and adults being refused the aid packages we give which in turn leads Malcolm to come back on Inreview and bemoan that fact that UK is not helping African nations.

That's a whole lotta post you put on malcolm's plate, lodgebo! I wonder if he can digest all of it given that he usually seems to reiterate the same points: the world is against Black people and it's everyone's fault! I say stop dwelling on the past and the wrongs of our ancestors and make a positive change for yourself & the future. Rise above it and it won't hold you back, move on & be a positive, proud person no matter your skin colour and history. No offense to malcolm, you are entitled to your opinion and I don't believe you have ever posted anything supporting African Americans who are reaching out to other African-Americans who truly make a difference each & everyday to improve race-relations and develop understanding and forgiveness. Try a different approach for a change, you may be surprised at the effect.

YOU weren't alive then. YOU don't deserve to be paid for something that YOU didn't go through.

I know that what happened to slaves, and many others (and it's not just blacks) is WRONG! But, stop complaining about it. Get off your ass, and talk to your local politicans. Bang on their butts until they do something. But, sitting around the net, whinning about something that YOU think that you're due, isn't helping. You don't deserve a dime. You didn't suffer what they did. None of us did.

And, if blacks should get restitution... how about all the jews, and homosexuals that were locked up, had medical practices on, beaten, killed, etc... because of Hilter? Shouldn't they, and those since, also get restitution? Should I post article after article about homosexuals, and how we've been treated since creation, and demand to have something given to me, that is special? It's not going to happen. Join life, and maybe you will actually find a life.

This whole thing about money fot the family of slaves seems desperate verging on the pathetic. There is not a person alive who deserves compensation for what happend hundreds of years ago to people they know nothing about.

Lodgebo... unfortunately, there are people who think because they "belong" to a certain group, race, religion, etc.... they should be compensated for something. Hell, then all Christians should be compensated, from the jews, for Christ's death, right? Where does this crap end? It will only end when people start taking responsibility for themselves, and stop pointing a finger, and blaming others.

Malcolm I gave you a whole arguemtn based on facts that are easily checkable and you ignored them what's wrong scared to have an adult debate about the issue or what maybe you should look for that encyclopedia you were talking about.

You talk about Jewsih restitution and that's fine but where is the restitution for the English who were enslaved by the Romans?

And what makes gives the gall to assumke that any Black person living in the UK desrves anything for something that may or may not have happend to thier ancestors hundreds of years ago. Thier ancestors are long since dead and those that are living know have not suffered in any way shape or form and as such dserve sweet FA in fact as I said in an earlier post if anything they have probably had a better standard of living than had they grown up in thier ancestors country of origin, in fact there is no probably about it.

Also consider this just as a side issue. When the salver act was repelled the laves were given two choices either stay in the UK or go home and a vast majority stayed in the UK why do you think that is.

Malcolm.... GROW UP!! Seriously.

Yes, I've done A LOT of reading, especially of HISTORY! That was my minor in college, and I LOVE it. But, you seem to think that if it happened to a black person, even if it was 300 years ago... and NO ONE related to you, that you deserve restitution.

Why do I bring up homosexuality, or anything else? To prove a point. But, you have blinders on! Truly, I give up on you. You're a lost cause, and I feel pity for you. Too bad that you don't see what EVERYONE else on here sees. That would tell me something, if everyone was saying one thing, but you just skip through the fields, in your own world.

Let me ask you a question Malcolm.

Whyare you intent on trying to prove that Britain is a racist society?

First you attack the Scots for their role in the Slave trade and your belief of their behavour towards blacks in Scotland and now you seem to demand an appology from someone who's great, great grandparents weren't even alive when Britain was involved in Slavery.

What you fail to state is that Britain not only was one of the leading forces in the abolishion of slavery ((starting in SCOTLAND!!!)) but also was one of the first countries to end slavery as an instituion, in the 1830's.

Yes, you could argue that there are racist in Britain but the same can be said about every country aroud the world.

And, food for thought Macolm, Bigotry can be a form of racisim.

((Also,what the bloody hell is this doing in U.S. foreign policy?! It has nothing to do with U.S. foreign Policy!!))

I have warned Malcolm a 1000 times not to put stuff in here. In the past, I moved it to the right forum for him. But he wore me down. He wants to post stuff here, I can't stop him.

He never reads anything I write anyhow. Malcolm is more of a poster than a reader me thinks.


As for my laziness, I will try to roll in here this weekend and clean up the threads that have nothing to do with U.S. F.P. and move them to the right forums.

I think that I found THE perfect spot for this thread (and possibly many others that malcolm does in the future). Racism... Agree2Disagree. It seems that all he wants to do is argue that HE is right, and we (the world) are all wrong. And, they all (the threads he starts) seem to be about racism, and the wrong against, the entire black race (past, present, and future).

So, from now on, move them here, Whidden.... period.


BTW, white tiger, I just wanted to say that I liked your post. It was given with actual INFORMATION, which is more than I can say about the originator. But, I won't waste my time arguing with a closed person. I'm a history buff, and had history as my minor, with thoughts of teaching it to the college level. Still, the guy thinks that he is right, and we're all wrong.

I want an apology from every middle eastern person I meet for that dude who mugged me when I was 13. I never quite got over that, and they're all to blame..... right? Or is that racist? Sorry, I'm still trying to work out the rules here.

No one gets anything until the Hispanic community apologizes for the Macarena.

-HECK!

No, no, no... no one gets anything until Ricky Martin apologizes for Livin' La Vida Loca.

Good point. But as white people we should apologize for the Acky Breaky Heart song

-HECK!

Oh man, completely forgot about that one! Yay, even though I had nothing to do with it, I might consider apologizing for that one.

Firstly Malcolm, what the US government decides has absolutley nothing to do with what happens here in Britain. Relatively none of American political or industrial power has any say in how Britain is run, Britain could function perfectly well without the strong alliance we share with America. In fact the US government has had no say in internal British political affairs since WW2 and before that since the American Revolution.

So it is farely safe to say that Tony Blair saying something to a local British source about the slave trade has nothing to do with US foreign polocy.

Secondly I have never denied Britains role in the Slave trade I have mearly tried to show how Britain tried to attone for its role in it.

By the way it is a well know historical fact that the European super-powers who were involved in the Slave trade were not entirely at fault. It is a well known fact that African tribal chiefs would sell their own people to the Europeans to increase their own wealth.

If you bothered to look into the history of Britain and the slave trade as I have you would know that people in the British Empire were campaigning for the abolishion of the slave trade in the late 1700s.

Scotland abolished the slave trade in 1776 and Slavery was abolished in the whole of the British Empire in 1833.

My argument is why should people living now, people who have the same rights and privilages as everyone else, recieve compensation for hardships that their ancestors had?

If the world was run like that then the Irish, Welsh, Scots, English, French, German, Portugeuse, Spanish, Italian, Switz, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegean, Finish, Russian, Ukranian, Georgian, Moldovan, Romanian, Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, Egyptian, Tunisian, Nigerian, South African, Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Native Australian, Canadian, Native American, American, Mexican, Brazilian, Colombian, Argentinian, Peruvian and basically people of any other nationality in excistance would have the right to demand compensation for grevances that their ancestors had to endure.

There is no point trying to get compensation for what happened in the past, it doesn't work that way. You learn from the past and make sure that these thing are never forgotten and ensure that in the future thing like the slave trade doesn't happen again.

I just don't believe there is a demand for reparations from the descendents of slaves. If you really wanted to you could take the government to court fro reperations if you wanted to and you would have plenty of opportunities to do so. You would start with the high court ( Court of session in Scotland), if that failed on appeal you could go to the highest court in the UK the House of Lords and if that failed you could go to the European court and if you are poor the governemnt will even pay for you to take them to court. Howevere nobody has done this or to my knowledge has plan to do this which proves that nobody really wants it.

To be honest this idea of reperations is the most ridiculous thing I have heard since the city of Dresden wanted British compensation because we had the audacity to bomb it during WW2.

I have a question malcolm. Please answer it if you can. If the U.S and/or foreign government pays reparation for the descendants of slaves, is this money coming directly from the government ie: taxes etc? If it is then African-American's who pay taxes would then be paying for their own reparations right?

Is there a way that African-Americans would be exempt for this?

It sounds silly, but it is my question. Shouldn't the people who profited from the slave trade (their descendants) be the ones accountable for the paying of the reparations. In other words the government has the resources from many, many sources and some of them will be the African-American tax payer and those who who have made contributions.

Taxes pay for roads, schools and many other things that people of all races, including those who had nothing to do with slavery in the past, and those who were opposed to slavery. (Yes, there were Whites who were opposed to slavery).

Just wondering. I'm no expert on race relations or U.S History, so I'm asking. I have not read "The Debt".

Malcolm
I suggest you get out your reading glasses. I am not talking about Illinois or the US am I. I was talking about British courts where there have been to my knowledge none of these pathetic claims. Of course it's probably my fault after all a thread entitled "Tony Blair refuses to apologise for UK's role in slavery" was bound to talk about US courts.

Malcolm loads of people are putting up legit arguemnts and you keep dodging them but let's see if you can answer this question.

What would be your view if the UK decide that to pay these pathetic reperations they would have to call in the African debt, refuse to give any more aid to Africa and ( and this is the most important part) withdraw funding on cutting modern day slavery. Is that a price worth paying so some people can get a pay day off the government even though the have not suffered but probably benefitted?

The only people that deserve any compensation are modern day slaves.

What you are propsing is the equivalent of the people of Dresdens demands it is unworkable, unreasonable and unfair. If this crazy plan goes ahead you are just going create a more divided community where there will be more hostility to blacks and more support for right wing groups so I ask you again is it a price worth paying.
You need to put down your books and get in the real world son and look at what these demands will mean socially, politically, econmoically, internationally, and nationally the impact will be a negative for millions so a few thousand can get a cheque they do not deserve.

A couple of things I found oput about the alve trade. When the Briths government abolished trade the African kingdom of Dahomey sent a delegation protesting about the abolition as it would result in a loss og income for them and other nations in Africa. Also in 1867 the Royal Navy was sent to patrol W. African waters to uphold the ban on slavery it still does this at a considerable cost to the UK taxpayer. It was a minority of whites that owned salves. Slaves were not captured by whites but sold by blacks, most slaves refaused to go back to thier nation of origin when the UK slave tarde was abolished.

Oh and as a side issue about slavery and something I think we shuld all take on board. in the past between 10 - 13 million africans were bought as salves, in 1956 the UN passed a resolution banning all forms of salvery, today in 2007 there are around 27 - 35 million salves worldwide.

ok My question would be who would get restitution. I mean like, would just only black get it or would mixed people get it too? Also, it like impossible to calculate how much is "owed" You would have to know exactly how many people there were and how long they did it.

But heres some rough justice for ya.
lets say there were 20 million slaves ( I don't think there were that many but we'll over estimate here)
the life expectancy was for in the 30s in that time frame so lets say they worked for 30 years.
average wage in 1800"s which was more than in the 1600 or 1700s so well go with it was 16 dollars a week.
so 16 dollars a week for 30 years that 24960 dollars.
ok for 20 million slaves thats 499200000000 dollars
so you take the 900,000,000 and some odd people in africa and add the 30 some million here to it (because they are all decendants right?)
and you get some 970,000,000 people that are owed restitution ok devide the 499200000000 dollars by thatand they are owed $515.00.

So Five hundred and fifteen dollars and that s over estimating the amount of people in slavery how long they worked and how much they should have made and underestimating the current population so the actual figure is less than that.

and then who to decided that only the people alive today are intitled to it and not africans born tomorrow?

good job excellent post

you just can't argue with logic





my suggestion is to take that 499200000000 dollars and give it all to me

It is morally wrong that families who made huge fortunes from slavery continue to pass on that wealth to their descendants. If individuals can prove in the courts that it was their relatives forced into slavery that made that wealth then I see no problem with reparation. But it should come from the families that used the slaves, not government. And the further back we go the harder it will be to justify reparation to individuals living today.

Certainly wealth the Nazis took from the Jews has been quite rightly fought for since WWII, and what is the difference between the theft of property (which people worked to get) and the wealth (or property) gained by using forced slavery of humans.

The problem is that the families who made huge profits may not be rich today, secondly these families did not do anything illegal so why should they be sued?, thirdly as has been stated before why should it just be UK families why not the African tribes who sold the slaves to traders and thirdly the Nazi example is not the same, the Jewish families only wanted thier property back which they got they never wanted to sue the German soldiers families or get compensation.

Don't need to read the book Malcolm know why because every historian backs up the fact that Scotland was the first to ban slaves and treat those who were slaves with respect, it's all written down from hundred of years ago, of course the historians, writers of the time and documents from the time are wrong and your book must be right.

Poor poor malcolm I was doing some research and it has become clear you don't have a damn clue what you are even argueing about.

YOu have rabbited on here about payments to individuals and guess what? the African repeartions movement ( ARM) are not claiming for individuals to receive anything oh no what they are saying is that they want individuals like yourself to suggest projects in Africa that the money can be spent on.

http://http://www.arm.arc.co.uk/ thats the link go to FAQ's and see the question on making sure cash does not go in private pockets.

The rest of thier arguement is a heap of BS I think they need a good lawyer cos they know nothing about international conventions.

Anyway Malcolm if you just did your homework you might hve saved us all a little time. So are we going to debate reperations to African nations and the shortfalling of the ARM's arguement or are you going to make up another story a la your IAEA post?

Suggesting projects to help Africans living in poverty is a nice idea. Good luck to them.

Sorry but that's what foireign aid is for, thats waht UN development funds are for, thats waht EU development funds are for thats what the UK international development and assitance fund is for, The UK's African releief fund that is what countless charities are for.
If this ARM lot want reperations fine but if I was Tony Blair, Geroge Bush and who evetre else they are suing then I would say it's either or reperations and no interntional assistance ever again or continued international assistance as and when they need it and no reperations you can't have it both way no country can afford that.
Also I notice that the Carribean nations get no cut why is that? and if the ARM are not really concerned about cash just slavery can I assume they will be doanting some of thie cash to current drives to wipe out slavery in Eastern Europe? after all slavery is alvery is it not.
Also until these idiots get on a level playing field the get sweet FA it's blatant racism and favouritism they acknowledge that Africans themselves have to take blame for what happend but they will not sue Africans how is that fair? Arabs were involved but they won't sue Arabs is that fair?
What people seem to forget is that while the UK has at times hindred Africa it's probably done mopre to help it that continent than any other country maybe they should take that into cosideration and think about what would happen if they lost the UK because I can guarntee you that if this ridiculos descion is carried there will be a social backlash as a result. Hell even Bob Geldof said that reperations were not the way to go.

But H@ts surely a claim for compensation should only be if the person who is sueing was personally hurt in some way these people have not been hurt at all they are like everybody else nowadays who see compenation as easy money.

You live in the UK and be honest before this article how much had you heard about claims for slavery, I have heard zero.

Anyway as I said earlier that's not really the point cos Malcolm got the whole story wrong.

Doesn't matter to me that Malcolm got the story skewed, so much as the argument that the descendents of slaves have no claim to the wealth that their ancestors created under duress and through the form of slavery.

Their freedoms were taken from them, regardless of whether their own people did it, or whether they were rounded up by force. The end result was, for THOSE individuals and the generations that would follow, they were abused and their lives were irrevocably altered. Now, to say that I totally am appalled by the slave trade would be a bit strange, seeing as I am 100% positive that I would not be alive today had it not occurred, but that doesn't remove the culpability of those who forced it upon my ancestors and beat and battered the resolve and resistance out of them to the point where even when one of my ancestors was freed, he couldn't see a life without his "master" and "chose" to remain the property of his "owner."

To me, it's a grave tragedy that he was as those zoo animals that have been caged so long that it breaks their spirit, and they stay put even when the cages are removed because their hope in the possibility that such a day would come was long-ago shattered. And I don't blame HIM. I blame the system that broke his spirit. Now, what price does one put on that type of loss? Multiply that by the millions of other lives who were affected during the slave trade, and add to that the lives of those who were born into the families of those former slaves, how they were still treated worse than second-class people and for a long time were not regarded as citizens (some still feel this way about us...). And to be honest, that really is just the SURFACE of the issue.

Reparations? I don't know that it would be the answer, and the idea of administering something like that is staggering. I don't see it ever happening in terms of individual reparations of some monetary amount. I don't care too much about reparations either. I care more about respecting and honouring the slaves and those who came after them who had to endure a lot more than I have ever had to, and have paved the way for me to enjoy much of the freedoms that were stolen away from them.

You won't find a person on this site or a politician in the UK that does not belive the slave trade was a terrible thing but that does not mean that we should pay for something that our government were involved in nealry 200 years ago and ultimatly stopped.

Sierriadaddy the stroy your ancestors is a sad one indeed but you say that you don't care about reperations and that seems to be the general view I get from people I have talked to here in the UK but may I ask you a question.

Q. In light of all the positive things the UK has done for Africa do you as a descendent of a slave feel that reperations are fair, and wy do you feel the way you do.

PS you dont have to answer if you don't want to.

The IDEA of reparations is fair, but the reality of administering it doesn't seem feasible. What's being done for Africa doesn't address what has been done to those who were taken AWAY from Africa, so I'm not sure that what the UK has done for Africa really makes any difference in regards to reparations to the families of those who were bought and sold as slaves.

And just to be clear, I'm not the descendent of A slave, I'm descended from MANY slaves. For me, the slave trade was a MAJOR deal, because part of my identity is wrapped up in what happened during those years. The lack of education that resulted from slave labour still affects my extended family in big ways to this day, and has had an impact on me personally in ways that I'm still figuring out and coming to grips with. Many of the people whose families profitted off of the broken backs of my forefathers and others like them are still enjoying some measure of success and comfort that was never provided to my ancestors, and have an advantage over me as their descendent that is unfair and unjust. To consider ways to reconcile that issue is fair, in my opinion, even if nothing in the way of individual compensation come out of it. I personally don't really need reparations of that form.

I'm no longer an African, so whatever happens for Africa doesn't directly affect me other than make me feel happy for Africa that they are receiving aid. I am a Canadian of mixed Jamaican descent, who is an ancestor of slaves, and if not for some relatively recent humanitarian viewchanges and legislation, would possibly be a slave myself.

Not aimed at anyone in paticular just a little more info and my own point of view.

Done a little more research and found out that if African groups want reperations they should probably get in line because they were not the first group of people to enslaved in huge numbers.

Apparently the world slave come from the world Slav that's because the Slavic peoples were the first to be enslaved en masse around the 9th century onwards ( mainly Chezchs, Slovakians, Poles and probably Slovenians) were captured by German tribes as there was no Germany, Greeks, Romans, Russians and like in Africa by each other some Slavic salves were even found as far as Spain and this went on for hundreds of years.

Also in terms of people being chained up and sent away against thier will well is that not what happend to the Scots during the highland clearences they were sent to the US and further afield (admitedley some went to Scottish cities) ditto with the Irish, also people from all over the UK that were sent to Oz because they commited minor crimes, then again the Scots captured and enslaved and humilated by the English (for example after the Cullodan massacre which is still a sore point)


Every year millions of Eastern European girls end up in the west as they have been sold to brothels and pimps as sex slaves in some cases girls as young as 14 were found to enslaved in this way?

Many illegal immigrants come into the UK thinking they have been smuggled in and it is only then they are realise they have been enslaved.


The thing is that with the exception of the last two nobody was ever really punished and in all the cases nobody has ever seeked financial gain for them selves or thier country of origin or for thier ancestors.
They have not sued for this reason and if it makes me unpopular then I really don't care. The fact of the matter is they dealt with it and got on with thier lives, for those people who are trying to sue governments and inviduals for 200 years ago get over it you can't live in the past because if do you will never progress. Every country and race has had problems and issues that were inflcited upon them by others but they have not gone about looking for reperations what makes Africa history diffrent from other countries? look at the carribean countries same situation as Africa but they are not looking for cash are they. If we started this whole reperations arguement every one would be suing every one else.
Also why is it that suddenly African and Asians are exempt from the reperations claim is that fair? and does anybody in Africa actually know what the hell is going on over here waht do they think.

Forget about the cash compensation for individuals. I personally think that's not realistic. The argument for me isn't about the money, it's about working to provide the hand back up to black people whose lives and that of their future generations were crushed under the tyranny of slavery. Now, if we want to argue that other races and cultures should be considered as well because practically every culture has been enslaved at one point in history or another, fine. I'm all for that. OWNERSHIP needs to be taken NOW to make amends for the type of ownership (read: SLAVERY) that was taken in years gone by. The reason why responsibility should be taken is because of the overt and covert methods that have been and are still being employed to keep the descendents of slaves from being citizens of equal footing with the descendents of those families/cultures who profitted from slave labour.

And the argument that a group of people shouldn't demand restitution of some kind for slavery because it hasn't been done before isn't going to the root of the matter. Millions of people were wronged, and the way in which they were wronged has trickled down through many generations and still hasn't been corrected. To say that it's up to us to correct it doesn't sit well with me. Yes, we have a responsibility to ourselves to do our part to bring ourselves out of our situation, but so do those who put us here, don't you think? Helping Africa out doesn't help us.

To be fair, most of this is just devil's advocate talk on my part. I believe it, but I'm not one to go picketting or petitioning for anything, and I recognize that I don't need reparations or even Affirmative Action in a fair and equal world, because I feel like I'm just as qualified as any other to do any of the jobs I've ever applied for, and I know that I have sense enough to make my way through life successfully if and when I put my mind to it. But there is, and may always be, a part of me that longs for a truly equal society. I grew up around people who came from a multitude of ethnic backgrounds, and I learned to RESPECT them for their differences, not TOLERATE them. I have NO PROBLEM with other cultures and never have. I have from time to time been caught up in things like racial stereotyping, but none of that has stuck with me and been incorporated into my core beliefs. I go through the day looking at the news and my heart bleeds trying to figure out why the rest of the world has such a hard time thinking like me.... And then sometimes I actually wonder if there is something deficient IN ME for thinking that everyone is ACTUALLY created equal, and that it wasn't just some fancy words caligraphied unto a famous parchment about 230 years ago...

Tiger is right Malcolm you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel in this case. Face it as much you and a minority may want the bankrupt countries like the UK the intelligent majority realise it would cause more harm than good to African and african countries ( did you ever stop to consider the actions of a reperations movement).

Look at what you have posted as an example 1 country has apoligised. Also it is hardly a big sdeal in Frnace either it's not like a holiday or a minutes silnce mainly education based projects whichj is what moct countries teach anyway. Oh and as for France calling for reperations Chiracv has already stated that " reperations for slavery is not an issue in France"

Maybe you should move to Europe because you are blind to the issues and feelings going on here you have proved that time and time again.

what about African countries that sold their brothers into slavery?

should they apologize and provide reparations?

Exactly Dekka this is the point I have been trying to get into malcolms head all along. African countries were maybe the most guilty in all of this soory story they stabbed thier own people in the back for progit they created the supply and yet Malcolm and others like him refuse to go looking for an apology from them, ditto withg the Swedes and other countries that were involved intresting how they only want apooligies from rivh countries isn't it.