Gay Penguins SHOCK the heartland |
| Posted by: HECK! | | Gay penguin book shakes up Ill. school
Associated Press
SHILOH, Ill. - A picture book about two male penguins raising a baby penguin is getting a chilly reception among some parents who worry about the book's availability to children — and the reluctance of school administrators to restrict access to it.
The concerns are the latest involving "And Tango Makes Three," the illustrated children's book based on a true story of two male penguins in New York City's Central Park Zoo that adopted a fertilized egg and raised the chick as their own.
Complaining about the book's homosexual undertones, some parents of Shiloh Elementary School students believe the book — available to be checked out of the school's library in this 11,000-resident town 20 miles east of St. Louis — tackles topics their children aren't ready to handle.
Their request: Move the book to the library's regular shelves and restrict it to a section for mature issues, perhaps even requiring parental permission before a child can check it out.
For now, "And Tango Makes Three" will stay put, said school district Superintendent Jennifer Filyaw, though a panel she appointed suggested the book be moved and require parental permission to be checked out. The district's attorney said moving it might be construed as censorship.
Filyaw considers the book "adorable" and age appropriate, written for children ages 4 to 8.
"My feeling is that a library is to serve an entire population," she said. "It means you represent different families in a society — different religions, different beliefs."
Lilly Del Pinto thought the book looked charming when her 5-year-old daughter brought it home in September. Del Pinto said she was halfway through reading it to her daughter "when the zookeeper said the two penguins must be in love."
"That's when I ended the story," she said.
Del Pinto said her daughter's teacher told her she was unfamiliar with the book, and the school's librarian directed the mother to Filyaw.
"I wasn't armed with pitchforks or anything. I innocently was seeking answers," Del Pinto said, agreeing with Filyaw's belief that pulling the book from the shelves could constitute censorship.
The book has created similar flaps elsewhere. Earlier this year, two parents voiced concerns about the book with librarians at the Rolling Hills' Consolidated Library's branch in the northwest Missouri town of Savannah.
Barbara Read, Rolling Hills' director, has said she consulted with staff members at the Omaha, Neb., and Kansas City zoos and the University of Oklahoma's zoology department, who told her adoptions aren't unusual in the world of penguins.
She said the book was then moved to the nonfiction section because it was based on actual events. In that section, she said, there was less of a chance that the book would "blindside" someone.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | "Move the book to the library's regular shelves and restrict it to a section for mature issues, perhaps even requiring parental permission before a child can check it out."
 That is freakin' priceless. Talk about degredation of society. I think ignorance will harm society far greater than anything else.
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| Posted by: Lawless | | I'm with you, Heck! Let's just SHELTER children, from everything....
My partner was sheltered, big time... and it's caused her more problems then anything. I feel sorry when folks believe that it's the only way to raise their children. But, it's their kids... not mine. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | | Why don't these tools just start burning the books they don't like. Some people just have nothing else better to do. Man penguin shalt not lay with other male penguin like it was a lady penguin. Of course, in penguins defense, they all do kind of look alike. Hope I'm not being an animal racist.
What about a-sexual organisms, are they going to hell?
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| Posted by: Lawless | | Oh, we're all going to hell, Heck! In a hand basket!!! Penguins, humans, organisms... and it's going to be a great party... with lots of beer.  | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | [QUOTE]HECK! said this in post #5 :
[B]Why don't these tools just start burning the books they don't like.
Yeah and we all remember which nutcase advoctaed that idea. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Dreamzwalker | | it may just be me - but 6 year olds should not be reading a book about 2 male birds or anything for that matter - humping each other. i would burn a book if i had an 8 year old reading about one dude sticking another dude in the ass. sorry but they aren't old enough for that. plus, some of that material hinges on the line of porno.
i saw this kids book not long ago that had explicit information on how and what a homo and straight person is to do during "sex"
it was in the 8 year old section.
preventing an 8 or even 10 year old (or even 12yr old) from reading this is far from being protective.
Its items like this that we have 12 year olds baking babies, and the morons of the country wonder why? (book i'm talking about not the bird book with this comment)
come on now, use commonsense or do we all lack it? | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | | I don't think the book had graphic penguin on penguin action. If it had, then no, kids aren't ready to see that.
The issue at hand is having to fictional, male penguins raising a baby penguin. Never said they were gay penguins exactly. Could be like Three Men & A Baby.
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| Posted by: Inner City Blues | | As Bill Maher said, there are not gay people, they're straight people that sin a lot... | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | I would be astonished that so many don't see any problem with this if it weren't for positions I've read in other threads.
This book is obvious in what it's trying to convey to children. It's no wonder why as the generations pass, the society is deteriorating the way it is. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | But the fact is this did happen and I belive that there have been other dcoumented cases in the wild so if the book is based on facts there should be no problem. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | The book is about 2 male penguins raising a baby penguin. I don’t know about fact but clearly it’s aimed at the psyche of our children.
There is a concerted effort force homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle by the gay community. Anyone who says they don’t agree with it are labeled as homophobic, just as Rosie O’Donnell just did with Clay Aiken and Kelly Ripa simply because she told Clay not to cover her mouth with his hand. This book is another effort to do so. If parents don’t agree with the book’s content, it should be pulled.
I think it’s an ugly day when people are offended at a bible being in on our schools shelves but deem this book as being something acceptable. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #13 :
The book is about 2 male penguins raising a baby penguin. I don’t know about fact but clearly it’s aimed at the psyche of our children.
By telling them the truth? Like I said there have been instances of things like this in the wild are we to ban any wildlife progarms that show this or will we just show it after the kids are in bed .
There is a concerted effort force homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle by the gay community. Anyone who says they don’t agree with it are labeled as homophobic, just as Rosie O’Donnell just did with Clay Aiken and Kelly Ripa simply because she told Clay not to cover her mouth with his hand. This book is another effort to do so. If parents don’t agree with the book’s content, it should be pulled.
So what you are saying is that a book that tells a true story of 2 male penguins raising a chick ( that would have died otherwise) is going to turn our children gay, man that's a powerful book. If that's what you belive maybe we should not let teenagers read the book as well because they are certainly open to trying new things. Of ciourse it's how you twist this book's story you say it's pink propaganda I would say it's a subtle way to teach people about adopting orphans
I think it’s an ugly day when people are offended at a bible being in on our schools shelves but deem this book as being something acceptable. |
Why is it unacceptable? do you find the book in itself unaccptable?, the fact kids can read unacceptable? or the fact that it really happend unacceptable?. The basis of education should be the search fro truth if you belive that and hide this book from kids you are hypocrite.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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lodgebo wrote
By telling them the truth? Like I said there have been instances of things like this in the wild are we to ban any wildlife progarms
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First, I think this is very pretentious to say that this book is about wild life. Secondly, parents disagree with the content. They are the one’s paying taxes and their voices should be heard.
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So what you are saying is that a book that tells a true story of 2 male penguins raising a chick ( that would have died otherwise) is going to turn our children gay,….
…..Of ciourse it's how you twist this book's story you say it's pink propaganda I would say it's a subtle way to teach people about adopting orphans |
This book is about homosexual penguins raising a baby penguin, not simply about 2 male penguins raising a chick that would have otherwise died. Apparently you don’t know about the content, a content that clearly states that the two adult male penguins are in love.
Furthermore, I never said that this book was about converting children but aimed at gaining acceptance for the lifestyle. But now that you’ve mentioned this, children are impressionable. I’m sure some children will be confused about this content and yes it may encourage some to think it’s ok and ok to engage in such behavior.
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Why is it unacceptable? do you find the book in itself unaccptable?, the fact kids can read unacceptable? or the fact that it really happend unacceptable?. The basis of education should be the search fro truth if you belive that and hide this book from kids you are hypocrite.
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Like I said earlier, the day when people are at arms about a bible being in our schools while protecting this book as a right to be there highlights social issues if you ask me. And because a subject matter may be truth, doesn’t mean our kids should be exposed to it. If that’s the case, why not a book on prostitution? After all, that’s truth too, isn’t it?
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| Posted by: h@ts | | If it's stuff like books and stories that make a person's sexuality, then why - when the majority of the media and virtually ALL children’s books and films are heterosexual in nature - are 10% of the population homosexual? It's a big debate: is sexuality innate or is it cultural?
This penguin thing just sounds to me like people not being comfortable and can't deal with their own fear of homosexuality, and this book bites right into that fear. Saying that if you're coming at this from a religious angle then there is no debate, because according to the good book, homosexuality is wrong. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | Well everyone doesn’t believe that there’s a God. If that seems to work for them so be it however I happen to believe there is.
But even if you don’t believe there’s still an issue with human impulses to do that which is out of the norm. Some are illegal, some are immoral and some are unrighteous. The problem is that people will redefine the latter two because they want to engage in behavior that is contradictive.
I believe people are homosexual for a host of reasons. I don’t believe everyone with homosexual preferences are simply born that way however it seems to become more acceptable as the days pass.
My point has always been this. People can live their lives as they see fit, that includes their sexuality. However, if they do so, doesn’t suddenly make it righteous or moral. I mentioned prostitution because now it’s legal in many cities. It doesn’t make it righteous or immoral but people now have the choice to engage in it without legal ramification.
It doesn’t make it righteous, just none of my business, until you want to project your lifestyle on society and tell people that you are right and I am wrong to oppose it. That’s where I take exception | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #15 :
First, I think this is very pretentious to say that this book is about wild life. Secondly, parents disagree with the content. They are the one’s paying taxes and their voices should be heard.
Well let's see it's about two penguins in a zoo if not wildlife it's a zoo thing but ity is certainly an animal thing, relgious types are the ones blowin it out of all proportion making it something it is not. So if the majority of taxpayers are OK with the book what happens then I have doubts that you will let it rest. Also what happens if the majority of parents start to have doubts about other lessons or book where do you stop?
This book is about homosexual penguins raising a baby penguin, not simply about 2 male penguins raising a chick that would have otherwise died. Apparently you don’t know about the content, a content that clearly states that the two adult male penguins are in love.
Homosexual penguins I love it. Anyway have you read the book? I have not so you can either assume that they were in love like you love your partner, or in love like you love your parents or were in love with the chick or where in love with the whole situation . We know that in truth the penguins were not in love but that's a diffrent matter.
Furthermore, I never said that this book was about converting children but aimed at gaining acceptance for the lifestyle. But now that you’ve mentioned this, children are impressionable. I’m sure some children will be confused about this content and yes it may encourage some to think it’s ok and ok to engage in such behavior.
What it will encourage them to fall in love with penguins and raise penguin chicks as thier own? seriously there is no sex in the book and no physical contact of a sexual manner ( as far as I can tell) so what the problem is it the word male and love are put together, on sentence in a book is hardly going to turn a kid is it. If that your stance maybe gay kids should be reading books about hetrosexual love and that will fix em straight right? it must go both ways.
Like I said earlier, the day when people are at arms about a bible being in our schools while protecting this book as a right to be there highlights social issues if you ask me. And because a subject matter may be truth, doesn’t mean our kids should be exposed to it. If that’s the case, why not a book on prostitution? After all, that’s truth too, isn’t it? |
So this is more about the bible being banned than anything else? maybe we should ban history as well there was a lot of deaths and bloodshed as well, you want the bible back in scholls but wasn't there a bunch of hookers in that book as well? suppose it's alright if it's in the bible though.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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lodgebo wrote
Well let's see it's about two penguins in a zoo if not wildlife it's a zoo thing but ity is certainly an animal thing,…
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You are either uninformed or mistaking. This book has inference on homosexuals raising a child and it’s its purpose by the author. This isn’t in dispute. I suggest you read up on this book, it’s content and why parents are oppose to it being on elementary school library shelves.
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Also what happens if the majority of parents start to have doubts about other lessons or book where do you stop?
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Then they should be heard. Everything can be blown out of proportion, however parents aren’t protesting other lesson books, they’re protesting this one.
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Homosexual penguins I love it. Anyway have you read the book? I have not so you can either assume that they were in love like you love your partner, or in love like you love your parents or were in love
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You are simply uninformed period. I suggest you look at this. If you have issues finding out why parents are concerned, I’ll point you to some of their comments.
These are the parents who have read the book. Some of them were in the middle of reading the book and stopped when the book explicitly said the two male penguins “must be in love”.
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seriously there is no sex in the book and no physical contact of a sexual manner ( as far as I can tell) so what the problem is it the word male and love are put together, on sentence in a book is hardly going to turn a kid is it.
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Is it your contention that children books have no inference whatsoever? There are plenty of books as you have said, that show heterosexual families together without portraying sex in them. Clearly making reference to the two penguins being in love shows acceptable behavior to children and is exactly the reason why this book was written.
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So this is more about the bible being banned than anything else?
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No this isn’t, it’s about the title of this thread, I merely brought up a fact. Why you want to make this about something other than it is I don’t know but judging by your other posts, I refuse to believe you have that much of a lack of insight.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | Look I am not going to get in to a whole thing here because it's obviouys you belive this book is going to make a whole generation gay and that is not going to change.
Howevere Answer me this one question. This book was first released in June 2005 so why is that in Novemeber 2006 it has become a problem? why has it taken 16 months for people to alert the press and start complaining about the curse of the gay penguins. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Nymphadora | | I have done some research on this book and found several interesting points.
The author is gay and choose to write this for children with homosexual parents, and as well as to be used as a tool for other parents to talk to their children about kids they may come in contact with at school or whatever that may have homosexual parents.
I don't think the book should be banned but seeing how it contains some subject matter that brings up sex issues it should have some sort of disclaimer on it. I have a 5 year old I'd rather not have the sex talk with quite yet, The book does discuss how the boy penguins tried to make a baby penguin like the other couples but couldn't so the zoo keeper gave them an egg they adopted. I could see where 6 years olds would have questions about, well where do babies come from and what not.
I think that the majority of people’s problem with this book is it demonstrates an actually case of two homosexual penguins. Penguins are animals that act on natural instincts. That just completely goes against the argument that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. It can no longer be argued as unnatural.
Now, I know there are cases of people who engage in homosexual acts that are indeed just a lifestyle choice. But there are also people who are 100% naturally gay! That's just how god made em.
Anyone who disagrees with me just answer me this. Do you think someone would actually choose a life of being called immoral, an abomination, UNNATURAL. Think about it, what a horrible thing to live with constantly being judge and ridiculed and persecuted for something you can't control. People try to hide it for years to avoid it and some people actually take their own lives because they can't deal with it. Who CHOOSES that? Eventually people have to come to a point where they just have to live their life and be who they are and it's sad that people just won't let them do that.
IF you disagree with me than just crawl back up on your moral high horse and judge everyone silently. Seriously what gives you the right to treat people in such a way? | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Dekka00 | | my question is: are the penguins actually having sex with each other?
if not, it's not homosexual. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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lodgebo wrote
it's obviouys you belive this book is going to make a whole generation gay and that is not going to change.
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More than a bit of exaggeration on your part I believe. I never said anything of the sorts but I don’t understand how skewered people’s perceptions can suddenly be.
Children are empty tapes that record everything around them. They get their values from whom they perceive as having the answers to everything, adults.
With that being said, I cannot count the many times I’ve seen children play house. Usually, it’s with a male child as the husband and female child as the wife and they sometimes use a doll as the baby. Now where do you suppose they ever got such a silly idea from in the first place?
Children are impressionable. This is why good parents try to teach their children good values and the difference between right and wrong. Children are also influenced by peers, what they read and what they see on television. For me, it was Bruce Lee and all the kids were on the block throwing karate kicks at each other.
The point I’m trying to make is this. If children see something they perceive as not normal, they question it. It’s a healthy attitude and in fact, I which more adults did the same. But in like fashion if a child is told that two men being together like lovers is ok, it doesn’t necessarily make them gay but it will lead them to the idea that boys liking other little boys is ok and they may be more apt to engage in such behavior than if they perceived it as not normal.
As for why the book is making the hubbub now, I haven’t an answer but it’s certainly not the first story or event to do such.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Nymphadora wrote
Penguins are animals that act on natural instincts. That just completely goes against the argument that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. It can no longer be argued as unnatural.
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I have to agree and disagree. First the animals are acting out a natural instinct true but that instinct isn’t to be homosexual partners, it’s to procreate and create a family. This is expressly why they are tying to have a little penguin of their own.
Furthermore, because animals choose to have companionship with another of their own sex doesn’t mean they’re homosexual. Animals have done this for ages and they roam in packs however animals instinctively know how to mate and in 99% of the cases, they do so with the opposite sex of their kind.
I would be apt to give humans more credit for their intellect being somewhat higher than that of a penguin or another animal in the wild.
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But there are also people who are 100% naturally gay! That's just how god made em.
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That depends on what god you’re speaking of. If you’re talking about the God of mankind, I happen to disagree. People are born all sorts of ways and are born with physical and mental defects. It doesn’t mean God created them like that, it just means something went wrong in the process, to which God allows to happen from time to time.
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Do you think someone would actually choose a life of being called immoral, an abomination, UNNATURAL……
…..People try to hide it for years to avoid it and some people actually take their own lives because they can't deal with it. Who CHOOSES that?
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I constantly hear this argument concerning homosexual behavior so I have this question. What gives homosexuals carte blanche on feeling ridiculed for their behavior sometimes to the point of committing suicide?
People have been dealing with demons in many other facets of life, such as addictions to alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex and other compelling impulses that have lead them to suicide. I’m sure none of them chose to have impulses that are morally destructive but they do.
Should people be made to feel such a way as to committee suicide? No, they shouldn’t but redefining the parameters of morality sure isn’t the way to proceed either.
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Eventually people have to come to a point where they just have to live their life and be who they are and it's sad that people just won't let them do that.
IF you disagree with me than just crawl back up on your moral high horse and judge everyone silently. Seriously what gives you the right to treat people in such a way?
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So who’s denying anyone the privilege of living their lives any way they want to? People choose everyday to live their lives morally and immorally without retribution. That doesn’t mean because you choose immorality that now it’s suddenly moral.
What homosexuals want is for society to deem their lifestyle as “normal” and anyone who says otherwise is attacked and instantly silenced with titles like “homophobic”.
Lastly, who’s sitting on a moral high horse? This forum is here to express our viewpoints and that’s exactly what we’re doing. People of all kinds do things wrong from time to time but that doesn’t mean because they do, that I can’t say that it’s wrong in fear of being called a judger. If I’m wrong, I can accept that, even if I’m not ready to correct it. But I think it’s a sad day when someone is deemed wrong for saying homosexual behavior isn’t normal, even if it’s “normal” to those who do it.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #24 :
First the animals are acting out a natural instinct true but that instinct isn’t to be homosexual partners, it’s to procreate and create a family. This is expressly why they are tying to have a little penguin of their own. |
Where do you get this idea that a penguin would every want a little penguin? Animals do not have an urge to procreate, nor do they need one. The need is to have sex, driven by the sex drive, and from that offspring come, therefore animals want sex, not offspring.
I doubt whether any animals other than humans even understand the relationship between sex and the offspring that appears some time later.
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| Furthermore, because animals choose to have companionship with another of their own sex doesn’t mean they’re homosexual. |
If they are having sex with them it does, and animals will be sexually attracted to other animals in a lot of different ways. Dogs are attracted to other dogs by smell. If a male dog smells right to another male dog it will have sex with it. Do you think it even crosses the dogs mind what sex the other animal is. Put it this way, if a dog can find a leg arousing...
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| Animals have done this for ages and they roam in packs however animals instinctively know how to mate and in 99% of the cases, they do so with the opposite sex of their kind. |
Did you make this statistic up? I've read about groups of stray cats where females will "relieve" other female cats that are on heat if there are no toms about.
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| People have been dealing with demons in many other facets of life, such as addictions to alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex and other compelling impulses that have lead them to suicide. |
And clearly where it leads to suicide it's a problem. Where it does no harm then where's the problem?
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| What homosexuals want is for society to deem their lifestyle as “normal” and anyone who says otherwise is attacked and instantly silenced with titles like “homophobic”. |
"normal"? no such thing. Homosexuals, like every other human being, just want to be accepted for who they are, firstly by themselves, then their friends and family and finally by society as a whole.
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| But I think it’s a sad day when someone is deemed wrong for saying homosexual behavior isn’t normal, even if it’s “normal” to those who do it. |
Spreading intolerance can have a very bad effect on other people's lives and taken to extreme can lead to hatred and violence and as it did in the holocaust death on a massive scale. I'd say that is wrong.
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| Posted by: Sayzak | | I'm surprised (unless I missed something) that no one has pondered whether or not the books that are already there are appropriate. I mean, if we're going to sensor "gay" books (even though it is and always will be a part of our society) we might as well ban anything that remotely hints at anything controversial. Such as child abuse. Alcoholism. Abortion. Over eating. Under eating. Any sexual relationships. Any violence. Anything dangerous. Where do we draw the line? Do we only allow children to read what is appropriate in terms of maintaining their innocence? Isn't the point of books supposed to be to prepare children for the world they will inevitably experience? I'm not saying that homosexuality is wrong, or even abnormal. In fact, I don't think that argument has any thing to do with whether or not these books belong on the shelf or not. I think education shouldn't be constricted to what the parents are comfortable with. Because parents always have the opportunity to be the role model. If parents aren't willing to raise their children someone has to. Might as well be a book which has some hint of the truth in it. Homosexuality is normal, in a small percent of our species. It doesn't really matter why it's there, or who is comfortable with it. It's a truth we can't deny and if you try to suppress your children from this fact of life it will just mess them up more later. Leave the book on the shelf with all the other books. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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h@ts wrote
Animals do not have an urge to procreate, nor do they need one. The need is to have sex, driven by the sex drive, …
….I doubt whether any animals other than humans even understand the relationship between sex and the offspring that appears some time later.
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H@ts, you are simply wrong. Many animals and insects for that matter know exactly what comes from the mating ritual. Animals are naturally driven by the need to procreate. This is how their species and every other species survive and as I put it before, it’s why the male organ ejaculates.
The lion will kill offspring that isn’t his if his mate has them. I’ve watched the dragonfly mate and another fly down on the female fly and forcibly eject another males sperm and implant his own. They have more knowledge than you give them credit for.
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If they are having sex with them it does,
…Dogs are attracted to other dogs by smell. If a male dog smells right to another male dog it will have sex with it. Do you think it even crosses the dogs mind what sex the other animal is.
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Animals are driven by the need to have sex. It is the nature of their flesh in order for their species to survive.
I don’t mean to offend you h@ts but your latter statement isn’t educated. A dog sniffs another dog in order to identify it as female when they want sex. Most dogs will instinctively walk away if they don’t make this identification. Some dogs simply know no better so they will hump a male dog or a human leg because of their innate urge to procreate (have sex).
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I've read about groups of stray cats where females will "relieve" other female cats that are on heat if there are no toms about.
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I simply don’t know how else to put this. Humans are of higher intellect therefore they should know better. When animals feel the need to have sex, it is because of their bodies seeking to procreate. If a male is near, they will do what nature intended. If one is not near, all they know is that they have an instinct and will seek to alleviate.
This is exactly what you’re describing above.
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Where it does no harm then where's the problem?
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The old adage “no harm no foul” huh?
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Homosexuals, like every other human being, just want to be accepted for who they are
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I think I said the same thing? So what happens when someone disagrees with their lifestyle?
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Spreading intolerance can have a very bad effect on other people's lives and taken to extreme can lead to hatred and violence and as it did in the holocaust death on a massive scale. I'd say that is wrong.
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Why not tolerate prostitution? What about foul language in public forums? How about drinking alcohol on the street corner? What about people who have the propensity to lie, cheat and deceive? Why not redefine morality to fit everyone who behaves immorally as long as they don’t harm anyone.
The problem here is with human definition of sexual behavior. Since you don’t seem to believe there’s a such thing as “normal” thing I guess there’s no such thing as “abnormal”. But why you’re at it, can you explain why the human male organ ejaculates during sex? Or is this simply not “normal” either?
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| Posted by: HECK! | | I think we can all agree that the main objective for nearly every animal on the planet is to survive and perpetuate the species. That is done in several ways.
To speak on perpetuating the species, animals procreate and nearly all care for their young. So if two males of a species both care for the same adolescent, how is that abnormal? From what I read above it is natural to procreate which is so the species can continue. Newborn offspring needs care and to learn some survival skills. It can learn that from either parent or another member of its species, regardless of gender.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | More on the penguin mating habits:
"Some penguins mate for life, while others for just one season. They generally raise a small brood, and the parents cooperate in caring for the clutch and for the young. During the cold season on the other hand the mates separate for several months to protect the egg. The male stays with the egg and keeps it warm, and the female goes out to sea and finds food so that when it comes home, the baby will have food to eat. Once the female comes back, they switch."
But what, the male incubates the offspring? That's not natural! 
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Heck wrote
To speak on perpetuating the species, animals procreate and nearly all care for their young. So if two males of a species both care for the same adolescent, how is that abnormal
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I think people automatically make assumption when speaking about sex and procreation. As humans know it, it is when the male deposits sperm into the female. It is the sole purpose of said sperm to reach and egg and fertilize it.
The female’s body is designed by nature to host the offspring until it is developed enough to maintain itself and sustain its own life.
Now two males can care for a child as well as two females, hence the adage “it takes a village to raise a child”. There’s nothing abnormal about a child being raised by two males or two females or by one of each. It’s ideal however for the human child to have both parents in the home for its development and balance but this is not always possible. Same holds true for the animal kingdom.
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From what I read above it is natural to procreate which is so the species can continue. Newborn offspring needs care and to learn some survival skills. It can learn that from either parent or another member of its species, regardless of gender
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I agree, however this is apples and oranges. The body is compelled to have sex because it is ensuring its survival. Sex can have other implications but that is more for our emotional side than the physical.
With raising a child, I believe it’s in the best interest of the child’s development for the child to be raise with male and female parents. However we know all cases aren’t ideal and we have single parents as well as same sex couples raising kids. That’s just the luck of the draw.
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But what, the male incubates the offspring? That's not natural!
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #28 :
H@ts, you are simply wrong. Many animals and insects for that matter know exactly what comes from the mating ritual. |
Please explain how animals understand that sex = offspring.
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| Animals are naturally driven by the need to procreate. |
Animals are driven by the need to have sex, offspring is the result not the cause. You have it backwards way round.
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| This is how their species and every other species survive and as I put it before, it’s why the male organ ejaculates. |
Wrong way round again. Procreation is the result not the cause. The urge to have sex is what causes animals to have sex. And the species survives because animals have, along with the incredibly powerful need to have sex, an innate need to protect the young that result.
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| I’ve watched the dragonfly mate and another fly down on the female fly and forcibly eject another males sperm and implant his own. They have more knowledge than you give them credit for. |
You've been watching too many Disney movies. How does this dragon fly even know what sperm is?
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| Some dogs simply know no better so they will hump a male dog or a human leg because of their innate urge to procreate (have sex). |
Maybe with some dogs their sex drive is so hight they'll screw anything that moves, including toys, legs, cushions etc. And they are not thinking - I WANT PUPPIES!
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #31 :
I think people automatically make assumption when speaking about sex and procreation. As humans know it, it is when the male deposits sperm into the female. It is the sole purpose of said sperm to reach and egg and fertilize it. |
Humans have sex all the time and it's nothing to do with procreation. Is there any purpose to this kind of sex?
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| The body is compelled to have sex because it is ensuring its survival. |
Who has sex to ensure the survival of the species? Is this some kind of biblical idea? Cats and dogs don't care or know about the concept of "survival of the species" so that can't be what is making them have sex.
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| Posted by: Lawless | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #31 :
With raising a child, I believe it’s in the best interest of the child’s development for the child to be raise with male and female parents. |
Enough said... YOU believe. Your beliefs and thoughts aren't every one else's.
So, lets agree to disagree... because you see homo penguins, and I see penguins who are caring for a baby. We aren't going to agree, or see eye-to-eye.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | H@ts, no offense I hope but you need to do more research. You're just not sense.
Lawless, you will undoubtedly believe what you want regardless and that's fine if it works for you. But it still doesn't change the fact. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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h@ts wrote
You've been watching too many Disney movies. How does this dragon fly even know what sperm is?
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Actually, it was Discovery Channel not Disney. Maybe instead of automatically rejecting my position in favor of today's secular idealisms, try and do some research. If you do, you will see that I'm exactly right about procreation.
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| Posted by: Nymphadora | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #24 :
That depends on what god you’re speaking of. If you’re talking about the God of mankind, I happen to disagree. People are born all sorts of ways and are born with physical and mental defects. It doesn’t mean God created them like that, it just means something went wrong in the process, to which God allows to happen from time to time.
Ok so now all the mentaly and physicaly handy capped people in this world are an abomination. They are abnormal, immoral and should be treated as such. No more of this do what you can so they can live as happy and as normal a life style as possible, they aren't normal. Just tell them God didn't make them, he just allowed something to go wrong in the process, he don't take responsibility for that.
While your at it lets condem everyone with blue eyes or flat feet. Those are genetic quarks as well. It's not normal so it MUST BE WRONG!!!
Is homosexuality normal per se. No, not by definition. Is it immoral, that's a matter of opioion. Your intitled to your opinion as is everyone. But if I say people with six toes are an abomination and if they don't get one chopped of they are living in sin because that's my opioion, it doesn't make it right. It doesn't give me the right to persecute all the six toe people of the world. To force them to live a life of socked feet and tennis shoes, never to be able to wear a sandle without fear of ridicule. Same goes with the subject at hand, it is societys norm to go out of their way to make peole who are handicaped not feel handicaped, if this is some genetic quark why are homosexuals treated as freaks of nature. I think the real freaks of nature are those with the extra digits.
I constantly hear this argument concerning homosexual behavior so I have this question. What gives homosexuals carte blanche on feeling ridiculed for their behavior sometimes to the point of committing suicide?
People have been dealing with demons in many other facets of life, such as addictions to alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex and other compelling impulses that have lead them to suicide. I’m sure none of them chose to have impulses that are morally destructive but they do.
So now people choose to be homosexual, but don't choose to drink, or do drugs or gamble. yeah that makes sence.
What homosexuals want is for society to deem their lifestyle as “normal” and anyone who says otherwise is attacked and instantly silenced with titles like “homophobic”.
I've never reffered to anyone as homophobic
Lastly, who’s sitting on a moral high horse? This forum is here to express our viewpoints and that’s exactly what we’re doing. People of all kinds do things wrong from time to time but that doesn’t mean because they do, that I can’t say that it’s wrong in fear of being called a judger. If I’m wrong, I can accept that, even if I’m not ready to correct it. But I think it’s a sad day when someone is deemed wrong for saying homosexual behavior isn’t normal, even if it’s “normal” to those who do it.
Express you opinion, your right that is what this forum is for, I wasn't implying otherwise. I'm just saying people who go to extremes and force their opinions on others as absolute truth need to back up. and taking this book off the shelf would be doing just that. |
[QUOTE]oneofpeace said this in post #28 :
[B]
Why not tolerate prostitution? What about foul language in public forums? How about drinking alcohol on the street corner?
Sounds like a night at the French Quarter.
To all the 6 toe people of the world, no offence intended I was just making a point,
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| Posted by: Lawless | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #35 :
H@ts, no offense I hope but you need to do more research. You're just not sense.
Lawless, you will undoubtedly believe what you want regardless and that's fine if it works for you. But it still doesn't change the fact. |
It doesn't change the fact that you believe is truth!
Personally, it does work for me. Doesn't mean I'm wrong... it just means that we believe two different things. And, I could honestly care less. It's no sweat off of my spine... and I lose no sleep over it, one way or the other.
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| Posted by: mystic | | First off...I dont believe for one minute that anyone TRULY knows if animals only have sex because they want to have offspring.
Humans dont speak animal...so how do we know for sure why they are having sex? I do agree that some have mating calls for that purpose...but when I see a male dog at PetSmart start humping my male dog...I doubt it is because he wants to have offspring. Dogs arent stupid. I mean lets face it...how many males do we know that WANT to have sex just to have offspring? 
A snippet of an article I read from MSNBC:
However, species continuation may not always be the ultimate goal, as many animals, including humans, engage in sexual activities more than is necessary for reproduction.
"You can make up all kinds of stories: Oh it's for dominance, it's for this, it's for that, but when it comes down to the bottom I think it's just for sexual pleasure," Wolfe told LiveScience.
Conversely, some argue that homosexual sex could have a bigger natural cause than just pure pleasure: namely evolutionary benefits.
Copulation could be used for alliance and protection among animals of the same sex. In situations when a species is mostly bisexual, homosexual relationships allow an animal to join a pack.
Seriously though....it is what it is. People are freaked and want to hide stuff from children. Point is that they will learn it later in life anyhow. Look at what we learned about Christopher Columbus when we were kids. How old were we when we really figured out that that not only did he NOT discover America in the true sense of the word, but he was a scumbag as well.
Why hide the truth from our kids...they will know soon enough anyhow, and I rather them learn it at home and learn tolerance, than learn about it later from some hate filled kid. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Nymphadora wrote
Ok so now all the mentaly and physicaly handy capped people in this world are an abomination. They are abnormal, immoral and should be treated as such…..
….people with six toes are an abomination and if they don't get one chopped of they are living in sin because that's my opioion,
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Look, you are way overboard. I was simply trying to argue from your vantage point which was obviously a mistake.
Homosexuality is a behavior, people born with 6 toes isn’t. Now you believe people are simply born gay, I don’t. I believe there are a host of reasons why people are they way they are including abnormal impulses.
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it doesn't make it right. It doesn't give me the right to persecute all the six toe people of the world.
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So who’s persecuting anyone for being homosexual and why does it have to be persecution because someone doesn’t agree with their lifestyle?
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So now people choose to be homosexual, but don't choose to drink, or do drugs or gamble.
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What is your point here? Mine was saying that people have demons of many sorts and they engage in those behaviors and are deeply driven to do so, some of them to the point of suicide. I don’t understand what you’re getting at here.
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I've never reffered to anyone as homophobic
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I was referring to the gay community not you as an individual. Rosie O’Donell just did this because someone told Clay Aiken not to cover their mouth with his hand and suddenly that person’s on the defensive.
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I'm just saying people who go to extremes and force their opinions on others as absolute truth need to back up. and taking this book off the shelf would be doing just that.
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So removing this book of the shelves is extreme? I find that absolutely ludicrous. The content and purpose of the book is to program impressionable children to believe homosexuality is ok. Their parents, like I, happen to disagree, therefore it is their right to express their outrage at such a book and request it be removed from the shelves.
I made a comment earlier that people can get outraged at a bible being in schools and demand they be taken out, then say something like removing this book is extreme (NOT REFERING DIRECTLY ABOUT YOU). Now I’m not advocating the bible be put back into the school libraries but it perplexes me as to why people can be outraged at a bible but comfortable with a book on homosexuality in elementary schools.
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Sounds like a night at the French Quarter.
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Sounds like nights all over the world if you ask me but because people love to swear and get drunk in public doesn’t suddenly make it moral.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Lawless wrote
Personally, it does work for me. Doesn't mean I'm wrong... it just means that we believe two different things.
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Lawless, how many people have you heard justify behavior that is considered immoral? They do it every day. I heard a prostitute on TV tell the camera, “what’s wrong with being a whore?”
Now the may come a day, if it hasn’t already, that people consider prostitution as something moral because it’s their opinion. However if I’m still around, I will inform them to the contrary. Maybe since prostitution is the oldest profession, someone will make an elementary book supporting someone as normal who participates in such behavior.
May be laughable now (I hope) but the way things are going, it won’t be later
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Mystic wrote
I dont believe for one minute that anyone TRULY knows if animals only have sex because they want to have offspring.
Humans dont speak animal...so how do we know for sure why they are having sex?
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It is innate for living creatures to have sex. Insects do it, animals do it and humans do it. It is built into our wiring. The body goes through changes in order to accommodate this.
While having sex, the body prepares for just that. A woman’s womb moistens and a man’s sex organ hardens to enter her. Once the male ejaculates, it is over, finished, done. This is true of all species because the purpose has been served. The male has delivered the process of procreation and now it’s up to the woman’s body to do the rest.
Now, do animals know all this? Probably not but I’m pretty sure they aren’t simply in the dark. H@ts contention that the body is driven by sex and procreation happens to be a part of it is backwards and the cart before the horse.
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when I see a male dog at PetSmart start humping my male dog...I doubt it is because he wants to have offspring.
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Ok, let me put it this way. A car cannot be driven without gas in the tank, why? Because it has been created that way. Doesn’t matter where the car is going, it will go.
Dogs are acting out of instinct. They will hump anything because they don’t have the intellect to know that a human leg isn’t for mating. They just act it out but given the fact that if a dog has a female dog near, they will choose the female dog over the male.
I cannot tell you the countless times I’ve seen a pack of male dogs fighting over a female dog but can tell you how many I’ve seen a pack of male dogs fighting over another male dog. Zero.
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However, species continuation may not always be the ultimate goal, as many animals, including humans, engage in sexual activities more than is necessary for reproduction.
"You can make up all kinds of stories: Oh it's for dominance, it's for this, it's for that, but when it comes down to the bottom I think it's just for sexual pleasure
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So Wolfe made this statement, and? The statement about it being something evolutionary astonishes me that someone can come to that conclusion.
Let’s face it, sex is pleasurable at least for most people (for some is not but I dare say that’s not the norm). People like the feeling. Some people even become addicted to it (no pun intended).
The body doesn’t simply shut down once it goes through the reproduction process but it continues to do what it’s designed to do.
Look, there’s nothing wrong with having sex outside of reproduction but there is something wrong with having sex with everyone you practically meet or in some way or with some thing for which it’s not intended. It is because of sexual immorality that disease run amuck.
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People are freaked and want to hide stuff from children. Point is that they will learn it later in life anyhow. Look at what we learned about Christopher Columbus when we were kids. How old were we when we really figured out that that not only did he NOT discover America in the true sense of the word, but he was a scumbag as well.
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Christopher didn’t discover anything in any sense of the word but I see your point. However, some things just aren’t ready to be learned by the young unripe mind of a child. It is our job to protect them from the ills of society until they are mature enough to better handle it.
Take sex for example. Puberty is torture on kids whose bodies undergo changes for sex and reproduction. They engage in it way too early without fully understanding the consequences of their actions and the emotions the come along with those feelings. Adults are nothing but older children who want all the candy in the jar without thinking of the consequences of eating it all.
In short, society has redefined the parameters of immorality many times and as a consequence, one has only to look at society to see that we are not the better for it.
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| Posted by: Lawless | | You wanna compare me to a whore, oneofpeace. Dude... take the penguin book and burn it. I don't give a rats ass what you think, believe, or do. But, if that book can't be on shelves, then the bible is being brought down too. If you don't want your kids to read something... don't let them. Simple as that.
Have a coke and a smile, and move on in life. But, you wanna start comparing my life to that of a whore, or something else, you and me are gonna have some serious problems/issues on here. Go soak up your beliefs, and spew 'em on someone else that wants to hear them. I'm not teaching your kids about a damn thing... and you aren't teaching me anything.
As the person in the drive thru window says after taking an order...
"Thank you... drive thru!" | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #40 :
Sounds like nights all over the world if you ask me but because people love to swear and get drunk in public doesn’t suddenly make it moral. |
Sounds like Friday night to me
I love to swear and drink in public. I think it's fantastic. And when I'm in Vegas I get to gamble too. If I was so inclined, even though I never would, I could mosey over to the legal brothel in Nevada and meet me a kissin' whore. It's legal after all. But legality is not the issue at hand. We're talking about morality. A list of handed down, personal and/or dogmatic rules and regulations from people long since turned to dust. It's what I believe in versus what the next guy believes in. There are even different degrees of belief therein.
So what if I like taking off my shirt, walking down the road smoking two cigarettes in sandals with big black socks up to my knees wearing cut off jean shorts with oversized backpack full of mini bags of M&M's? Life is about experiences. It's our mantra to pursue that happiness.
Obviously you don't have to preface each statement with "that's my opinion on morality." But in my trip around the sun I've been wrong from time to time and usually the person I bump into that says they have it all figured out and has it wrapped up in a nice box with a big bow is the one farthest from the mark.
I don't think you are a bad person or homophobic for not agreeing with the whole gay thing. But to be honest, it's really not for you or I to agree with and especially not to judge. I'm sure we could step into each other’s shoes and find a laundry list of things we find morally askew.
A wise man once said: "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." (Luke 6:37-38)
-HECK!
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| Posted by: Nymphadora | | Great post HECK!
ONEOFPEACE:
Your right I may have went a little overboard but it was to prove a point that did no good because you obviously don't get/ understand/ agree with or whatever.
You said in an earlier post:
Furthermore, because animals choose to have companionship with another of their own sex doesn’t mean they’re homosexual
Well being gay isn't about just sex.
If it were everyone whose ever had a three-way or experimented just because they were curious would be gay. Just because you can speak Spanish doesn't mean your Hispanic. Same with homosexuality, engaging in sexual acts with someone of the same sex doesn't make you gay. It’s about much more than that. It's about two people who have a companionship with one another and they just so happen to be the same sex. I don't know what you believe but I believe that you don't choose who you love it just happens. So there are people who happen to fall in love with each other and they are of the same sex. Why can't these people just live in peace? Why is it anyone else problem that they love each other?
So now there is a book out that shows two penguins that happen to enjoy each others company even though they are of the same sex, and they adopt an egg.
You also said: There’s nothing abnormal about a child being raised by two males or two females or by one of each.
Well, this is just a book that was made for those kids who happened to be raised by two moms or two dads. To try to help them through a childhood that they even at a young age realize is different than most. I wish they made more books like this. I'd like to see some books with single parent families that show the love and support that those family units have. I know as a single mom it is sometimes difficult for my child to see most of the other kids that have a mom and dad. She often asks me questions about why she doesn't have a mom and dad. Your right children do retain and understand what they read or have read to them. I think it would help my child deal with the fact that she doesn’t have a dad around to hear stories about other single family parents. That way she realizes that ever though her SITUATION is different that doesn't make HER different than all the other kids. But chances are someone’s going to have a problem with books like that and want them banned because they advocate that teenage sex is ok or sex outside or marriage is ok and then their child will grow up and have kids out of wedlock and thinks its normal and ok to do. This book is no different. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #42 :
H@ts contention that the body is driven by sex and procreation happens to be a part of it is backwards and the cart before the horse.
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Where's the logic in your argument? Wanting sex is an animal urge like hunger or thirst. What you're trying to argue is that it isn't feeling horny that makes animals want sex, but the future event of producing offspring. This is clearly the wrong way round. The dog is not getting aroused because it is imagining the litter of puppies that will appear in several months time.
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| In short, society has redefined the parameters of immorality many times and as a consequence, one has only to look at society to see that we are not the better for it. |
Why is society not "better for it"? Isn't that just your rose-tinted view of a past that never actually existed? Gay men were imprisoned in Britain only a few decades ago - prison destroyed Oscar Wilde. Alan Turing, who despite his help in winning WWII was criminalised and eventually killed himself because of his homosexuality. Was that the good old days?
Go read what happened to Alan Turing and tell me things are not better now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Alan_...
ring.27s_death
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Lawless wrote
You wanna compare me to a whore, oneofpeace. Dude...
…you wanna start comparing my life to that of a whore, or something else, you and me are gonna have some serious problems/issues on here.
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So where do you get this idea that I’m comparing you to a whore? I think you’re a bit high strung if that’s what you’ve garnered from my posts but I could have sworn you said and I quote, “Personally, it doesn’t work for me”.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Heck wrote
But legality is not the issue at hand. We're talking about morality. A list of handed down, personal and/or dogmatic rules and regulations from people long since turned to dust. It's what I believe in versus what the next guy believes in. There are even different degrees of belief therein.
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Well thank you for at least recognizing we’re talking about morality not legality. However, since you believe that morality is simply what one person believes in vs the other, is it safe to say that another person who teaches his kids to do all the things you’ve fore mentioned is teaching morality to their child?
You know in life, you have to have some rules. This is why we have laws because if we didn’t then we would live in chaos and whether you admit it or not, many of our laws are derived from moral values.
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it's really not for you or I to agree with and especially not to judge. I'm sure we could step into each other’s shoes and find a laundry list of things we find morally askew.
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I beg to differ, especially when you’re trying to inflict this book into they psyche of my child.
As for being in each other’s shoes, if I’m wrong about something then we’re both wrong, right? I never claimed once of being perfect. If I’m wrong, I can say I’m wrong, even if I choose not to correct it. However I won’t try to convince the world that I’m right.
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wise man once said: "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." (Luke 6:37-38)
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This isn’t directed only at you Heck but it’s funny how people want to quote this verse while omitting others. You really don’t want to go there because you’ll be surprised what you find in this same book regarding homosexuality.
Let’s take these two verses for instance
KJV
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”
(Romans 1:26-27)
NIV (in modern day language)
“So God let them go. They were filled with shameful longings. Their women committed sexual acts that were not natural:
In the same way, the men turned away from their natural love for women. They burned with sexual longing for each other. Men did shameful things with other men. They suffered in their bodies for all the twisted things they did.”
(Romans 1:26-27)
Why, how dare they judge??????
Believe it or not, I’m not trying to get on my “high moral” or “holy horse” here. I’m just merely saying that the lifestyle isn’t normal or natural and it shouldn’t be propelled at our children as being so.
Furthermore, is it ok for homosexuals to project this into society and my children’s life and condemn me as wrong but it’s not ok for me to say no way? Sounds like a double standard to me.
Look, if homosexuals believe they’re right, as I have already said many times, then by all means, live your life the way you see fit. No one’s attacking, persecuting violating their privilege to do so. Where I take exception is when you want to tell me that I’m wrong for not accepting tht lifestyle as natural, moral or wholesome then try to project it into society
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | |
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Mystic wrote
being gay isn't about just sex.
If it were everyone whose ever had a three-way or experimented just because they were curious would be gay.
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I agree, everyone that experiments with same sex doesn’t mean their gay. It just means their confused. Some people experiment with other things as well, not just sex. What we’re talking about is lifestyle not a one time experimentation.
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Same with homosexuality, engaging in sexual acts with someone of the same sex doesn't make you gay.
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It does when you practice it. I hear about guys mainly who engage occasionally in homosexual sex and claim not to be gay. It’s the height of absurdity.
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I don't know what you believe but I believe that you don't choose who you love it just happens. So there are people who happen to fall in love with each other and they are of the same sex.
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I know millions of people that fall in love and never with the same sex. Now I know there may be millions that do for many different reasons. I don’t claim to have all the answers but I know that something’s amiss and I do know that this is not natural because if it were, then everyone would have the same feelings.
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Why can't these people just live in peace? Why is it anyone else problem that they love each other?
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Again, I believe they should be left to their devices because it’s there life. But you have to understand something. There’s a concerted effort to project this lifestyle as normal or natural into society. Furthermore, it’s books like this that is aimed at the psyche of our future to accept it as such.
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So now there is a book out that shows two penguins that happen to enjoy each others company even though they are of the same sex, and they adopt an egg….
…this is just a book that was made for those kids who happened to be raised by two moms or two dads.
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This book is about much more than that Mystic and I believe you know this.
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I know as a single mom it is sometimes difficult for my child to see most of the other kids that have a mom and dad. She often asks me questions about why she doesn't have a mom and dad.
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Mystic, I know so many single mothers in your dilemma. I can also say that if you had a choice, your child’s father would be there to help you raise your child but circumstance has prevented this. Too many times, it’s because men vacate their obligations but that’s another thread.
But a child seeing two parents of the same sex relating like male and female sends the wrong message to that child. If the child believes that it is natural then they are more apt to engage in a lifestyle that isn’t healthy for them.
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chances are someone’s going to have a problem with books like that and want them banned because they advocate that teenage sex is ok or sex outside or marriage is ok and then their child will grow up and have kids out of wedlock
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I believe we have to be careful of the messages we send our children. The reason why we protect them is because we don’t want them growing up and experiencing life in a negative way. We want the best for them because we love them.
But life happens to deal us some difficulties sometimes. If we’re honest, sometimes our children are experiencing hardships because of decisions we’ve made as their parents. Of course this isn’t always the case because fathers run, husbands and fathers die and children are adapted by single parents.
But some things are under our control and are direct results of our decisions. Teen pregnancy and unwed mothers are not the ideal situation for our children and I would understand a parents concern. However there are children that do find themselves in such predicaments and yes, there should be material that addresses this.
However to compare this to a child seeing two men sleeping in the same bed, maybe hearing weird sounds from the bedroom or watching them hug and kiss and relate like male/female isn't healthy and it’s something that’s completely controllable.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | Penguins
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Lawless wrote
You wanna compare me to a whore, oneofpeace. Dude...
…you wanna start comparing my life to that of a whore, or something else, you and me are gonna have some serious problems/issues on here.
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So where do you get this idea that I’m comparing you to a whore? I think you’re a bit high strung if that’s what you’ve garnered from my posts but I could have sworn you said and I quote, “Personally, it doesn’t work for me”.
HECK**********************************************
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Heck wrote
But legality is not the issue at hand. We're talking about morality. A list of handed down, personal and/or dogmatic rules and regulations from people long since turned to dust. It's what I believe in versus what the next guy believes in. There are even different degrees of belief therein.
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Well thank you for at least recognizing we’re talking about morality not legality. However, since you believe that morality is simply what one person believes in vs the other, is it safe to say that another person who teaches his kids to do all the things you’ve fore mentioned is teaching morality to their child?
You know in life, you have to have some rules. This is why we have laws because if we didn’t then we would live in chaos and whether you admit it or not, many of our laws are derived from moral values.
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it's really not for you or I to agree with and especially not to judge. I'm sure we could step into each other’s shoes and find a laundry list of things we find morally askew.
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I beg to differ, especially when you’re trying to inflict this book into they psyche of my child.
As for being in each other’s shoes, if I’m wrong about something then we’re both wrong, right? I never claimed once of being perfect. If I’m wrong, I can say I’m wrong, even if I choose not to correct it. However I won’t try to convince the world that I’m right.
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wise man once said: "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." (Luke 6:37-38)
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The heavens must be shaking because this book was made.