EU says Saddam should not hang |
| Posted by: h@ts | |
We don't kill people for their crimes in Europe, but "British interior minister John Reid said the ruling should be respected." Why so? If we don't feel the state has the right to kill people why should we respect this sentence just because it's in Iraq? It's not like we're going to stop them doing it. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | | In Iraq it's their law, you have to respect it even if you don't agree with it. Personally, capital punishment works and I think this sentence is apt.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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HECK! said this in post #2 :
In Iraq it's their law, you have to respect it even if you don't agree with it. Personally, capital punishment works and I think this sentence is apt.
-HECK! |
I don't see why Iraq's laws must be respected when it is in direct contrast with our own.
America has the death penalty. We don't because we don't feel the state does not have the right to kill its own citizens. The Iraqis are free to do whatever they want, but we have the right to not respect that law. Finland is making a principled stand. Good for them.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | The death penalty is a matter of choice for every country. If your country doesn’t apply the death penalty, then so be it however why should your country impede on my country’s right to make the same decision?
Put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. If another nation chimes in on your country’s choice not to give the death penalty and protest that you should, would your country feel offended or even listen?
I personally agree with the death penalty in certain cases. It shouldn’t be automatic and evidence during a trial should leave little doubt of guilt. Circumstantial cases should not qualify. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Dekka00 | | is Iraq represented in the EU?
nope.
Therefore, what the EU says is irrelevent. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | |
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h@ts said this in post #3 :
I don't see why Iraq's laws must be respected when it is in direct contrast with our own.
America has the death penalty. We don't because we don't feel the state does not have the right to kill its own citizens. The Iraqis are free to do whatever they want, but we have the right to not respect that law. Finland is making a principled stand. Good for them. |
The trial is in Iraq, they are trying an Iraqi citizen, that is their law. It doesn't matter what it's in contrast to.
And no, America does not have the death penalty. It is decided state by state. Currently about twelve states do not have the death penalty.
You don't have to like the law but it's really not up to Americans, Brits or anyone else to approve.
-HECK!
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | True but Iraq is represented at the UN and the UN rules state that crimes agianst humanity and war crimes are deemed international crimes and as such should be held in a neutral country or if a neutral country can not or is not willing to hold the case it should be referred to the Hague. Kind of like what happend to Milosevic and to the Lockerbie bombers. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Dekka00 said this in post #5 :
is Iraq represented in the EU?
nope.
Therefore, what the EU says is irrelevent. |
It is very relevant to me what someone like John Reid says. He is an elected member of the British government, which is against capital punishment, stating clearly that we must respect capital punishment carried out in other countries. Since when?
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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oneofpeace said this in post #4 :
The death penalty is a matter of choice for every country. |
As is the right to urge another country not to carry out the death penalty.
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| Posted by: Lawless | | If Saddam had been over here, in America, killing people, it should be up to America. If he'd been in England, then the Brits should have say. This is not the worlds decision. It is for his "people" to decide. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
h@ts said this in post #3 :
I don't see why Iraq's laws must be respected when it is in direct contrast with our own.
America has the death penalty. We don't because we don't feel the state does not have the right to kill its own citizens. The Iraqis are free to do whatever they want, but we have the right to not respect that law. Finland is making a principled stand. Good for them. |
Well, We arent talking about England. This is Iraq, and if you steal, you get a hand cut off, if you steal again, the other hand is next, then the feet...etc.
Iraq does not come to England and make them decide what punishment fits the crime, so England will have to live with Iraq's form of punishment.
The point is that you do not personally have to respect it, but you generally have to accept it nonetheless.
Personally, I believe in the death penalty in many cases. It always amazes me when others are trying to save the life of some scumbag who decided to murder someone else's loved ones. If you have the balls to kill, then have the balls to accept the same for yourself. Murderers  ....freakin cowards are what they are!
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| Posted by: fuscia | |
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mystic said this in post #11 :
Well, We arent talking about England. This is Iraq, and if you steal, you get a hand cut off, if you steal again, the other hand is next, then the feet...etc.
Iraq does not come to England and make them decide what punishment fits the crime, so England will have to live with Iraq's form of punishment.
The point is that you do not personally have to respect it, but you generally have to accept it nonetheless.
Personally, I believe in the death penalty in many cases. It always amazes me when others are trying to save the life of some scumbag who decided to murder someone else's loved ones. If you have the balls to kill, then have the balls to accept the same for yourself. Murderers ....freakin cowards are what they are! |
I agree 100% with your post. Thanks Mystic for saying what many of us were thinking. 
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| Posted by: CRAYComputer | | What I find interesting about this whole ordeal is that many people said that Saddamm was not a religious man...not a follower of Islam.
And immediately after his sentence he kept saying..."Allah Ackbar." (sp?) This pretty much indicates that he was a Muslim.
And yes, I agree with Mystic's post #11. It was well spoken. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #9 :
As is the right to urge another country not to carry out the death penalty. |
h@ts,
You're not under any obligation to respect another country's right to carry out the death penalty. In fact you have the right to urge them not to. But I wouldn't worry too much about Sadam. He probably has about ten years worth of appeals as a cushion against his date with destiny. He has one of those trials that can outlive a defendant.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | I agree Euclid. Saddam will probably die in prison before he sees a rope. Hell, I'd even say an attempt on his life while in prison is more likely.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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CRAYComputer said this in post #14 :
What I find interesting about this whole ordeal is that many people said that Saddamm was not a religious man...not a follower of Islam. |
No, people were saying Iraq was a secular state, as opposed to what it could well become now, an Islamic theocracy, run on Sharia law.
| quote: |
And immediately after his sentence he kept saying..."Allah Ackbar." (sp?) This pretty much indicates that he was a Muslim.
And yes, I agree with Mystic's post #11. It was well spoken. |
Saddam Hussein was first and foremost a politician and like a great many politicians, will say anything if the words are beneficial to themselves. Saddam Hussein cracked down on the powerful religious forces in the southern parts of Iraq. No surprise he was a Muslim, there are a lot of them in the Middle East.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #15 :
h@ts,
You're not under any obligation to respect another country's right to carry out the death penalty. In fact you have the right to urge them not to. But I wouldn't worry too much about Sadam. He probably has about ten years worth of appeals as a cushion against his date with destiny. He has one of those trials that can outlive a defendant. |
I heard this weekend that it will only take something like a month for the appeal to be heard and then the sentence is carried out immediately.
No, looks like an old ally of the US and UK, a man willing to slaughter the Iranians with the kind of zeal US governments only dream about, will shortly be dead.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #18 :
I heard this weekend that it will only take something like a month for the appeal to be heard and then the sentence is carried out immediately.
No, looks like an old ally of the US and UK, a man willing to slaughter the Iranians with the kind of zeal US governments only dream about, will shortly be dead. |
I wouldn't lose hope if I were you. Depending on the outcome of the US mid-term election today, Sadam might be back in power soon.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #19 :
I wouldn't lose hope if I were you. Depending on the outcome of the US mid-term election today, Sadam might be back in power soon. |
Whatever the outcome Bush is still president, so you could be right, and lets not forget that Hussein was, after all, more of a Republican ally.
btw - 1982 was the year Saddam Hussein carried out the crime he's just been sentenced to death for, which is also the year (February to be precise) that "despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries."
http://www.torito.nl/news/rumsfeld_meets_saddam_s.jpg
December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld ,
then a civilian and now Defense
Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein
to assure him of US friendship and
materials support.
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| Posted by: HECK! | |
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EUCLID said this in post #19 :
I wouldn't lose hope if I were you. Depending on the outcome of the US mid-term election today, Sadam might be back in power soon. |
 Classic.
Man, how has Dubya gone from president to savior of America and the only thing that can stop these 'suiciders'. Priceless.
Hopefully the neocons can come out from hiding underneath their blanket long enough to vote.
-HECK!
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #20 :
Whatever the outcome Bush is still president, so you could be right, and lets not forget that Hussein was, after all, more of a Republican ally.
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Now you know that's not what I mean. If the Republicans lose congress, Bush may still be president, but it won't be his war to run anymore.
The war will be resolved within hours from now.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #22 :
Now you know that's not what I mean. If the Republicans lose congress, Bush may still be president, but it won't be his war to run anymore.
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Yes it will, he is still President for another 2 years so he doesn't get out of the Iraq mess that easily. But from now on, he'll just have to talk nicely to the Democrats, try to persuade them with well balanced and intelligent argument. Can he do that?
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #23 :
Yes it will, he is still President for another 2 years so he doesn't get out of the Iraq mess that easily. But from now on, he'll just have to talk nicely to the Democrats, try to persuade them with well balanced and intelligent argument. Can he do that? |
They won't need well balanced and intelligent argument. The days of persuasion are over. I doubt Bush will be president for two more years.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | [QUOTE]HECK! said this in post #2 :
[B]In Iraq it's their law, you have to respect it even if you don't agree with it.
I suppose then we should respect the laws in countries like China that condone torture and holding people without charge and we should also respect countries that do not have laws that oppose terror groups for example.
PS I am not sgfinalling out Heck on this one, I know a lot of people have said the same thing as him his quote was just the first one I came across. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | |
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lodgebo said this in post #25 :
[QUOTE]HECK! said this in post #2 :
[B]In Iraq it's their law, you have to respect it even if you don't agree with it.
I suppose then we should respect the laws in countries like China that condone torture and holding people without charge and we should also respect countries that do not have laws that oppose terror groups for example.
PS I am not sgfinalling out Heck on this one, I know a lot of people have said the same thing as him his quote was just the first one I came across. |
Well, I wouldn't go to the extreme on this one. Obviously there is a flaw in the reasoning when you take into account countries that behead people in public, torture, etc. But Saddam had a fair (some say overly fair) trial in his native country and found guilty of Crimes Against Humanity and has been sentenced to death. Just like the Nuremberg Trials. It's like not Saddam is going to have his nipples attached to a car battery and forced to listen to Yanni until he expires. While I acknowledge your point, there is a difference.
-HECK!
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Iraq Forum: EU says Saddam should not hang
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