U.S. officials: N. Korea may be planning 2nd nuclear test |
| Posted by: Lawless | | POSTED: 10:51 a.m. EDT, October 17, 2006
Story Highlights
• NEW: U.S. envoy: 2nd nuke test would be 'belligerent answer' to world
• NEW: U.S. sees possible signs of preparation for second nuclear test
• North Korea says U.N. sanctions 'declaration of war'
• U.S. officials say China is inspecting trucks bound for North Korea
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- North Korea may be preparing to conduct a second nuclear test, a U.S. official with access to intelligence information said Tuesday.
The official says that activity at a second nuclear site in North Korea is looking very similar to activity seen at another site just before the October 9 nuclear test.
The official said buildings and other structures are being fabricated at this second site, possibly in an effort to hide activities from spy satellites.
"It would not be unreasonable to assume the North Koreans are planning a second test," White House press secretary Tony Snow said Tuesday.
The intelligence official said there are also reports of statements from senior North Korean military officials saying that the government intends to conduct multiple tests.
Activity is also being seen at the site of the confirmed nuclear test, the official said. It's not clear if that activity is cleanup, maintenance or just wrapping up the testing there.
Earlier, government officials in South Korea and Japan said intelligence information pointed to a possible second test.
Earlier, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill said in Seoul, South Korea, that another test of a nuclear device would be regarded as North Korea thumbing its nose at the world.
"I think we will all regard a second test as a very belligerent answer on North Korea's part to the international community, and I think the international community will have no choice but to respond very clearly to the DPRK on this," Hill said as he left talks with South Korea's top nuclear envoy.
Pyongyang on Tuesday called the United Nations sanctions resolution approved after the first test a "declaration of war."
North Korea's Foreign Ministry said in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency that the country wants "peace but is not afraid of war."
The U.N. Security Council resolution "cannot be construed otherwise than a declaration of a war against the DPRK [North Korea] because it was based on the scenario of the U.S. keen to destroy the socialist system," according to a Foreign Ministry spokesman quoted by KCNA.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called the U.N. resolution a "clear message" that Pyongyang must "make a new set of calculations" about its nuclear endeavors.
"North Korea cannot endanger the world and then expect other nations to conduct business as usual in arms or missile parts," Rice said Monday.
Rice said a diplomatic avenue must be kept open to North Korea.
The secretary's comments came on the eve of her trip to Asia, where she'll meet with other parties in the six-way talks on how to implement the sanctions.
China to inspect shipments
Earlier in the day, Chinese U.N. ambassador Wang Guangya said his country would inspect cargo bound for and coming out of North Korea. That contradicts statements he made Saturday, hours after the resolution passed, that his country would find it politically difficult to conduct such inspections. China is North Korea's biggest trading partner.
"But inspections is different from interception and interdiction," he clarified Monday. "I think in that area that different countries will do it in different ways."
Nicholas Burns, undersecretary for political affairs, said the United States had received reports that Chinese officials were inspecting cargo in trucks along its 800-mile border with North Korea on Monday.
Burns said Australia also announced that it was barring North Korean ships from its ports, and Japan was mulling further measures.
The Security Council resolution, which passed by a vote of 15-0 Sunday, was in response to North Korea's claim that it had tested a nuclear device last week.
The measure forbids trade between U.N. member states and North Korea in material that may be used for nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction and high-end military equipment. It requires Pyongyang not to conduct further nuclear tests or launch ballistic missiles, and it demands that the country abandon all weapons of mass destruction programs.
The resolution also includes a ban on "trade and luxury goods," requires member states to freeze the assets of North Korean entities and individuals, and calls for inspections of cargo traveling from and to North Korea to search for items that may be used in a nuclear or other WMD program.
Burns said the measure has "real teeth."
"These are very tough sanctions, they're among the toughest ever imposed on any country by the United Nations," he said. "And we hope they will convince the North Koreans to recalculate the cost and benefits of what they're trying to do, developing a nuclear weapons program."
U.S. confirms test
An analysis of air samples collected shortly after North Korea declared it had conducted the test confirms it took place, according to the office of the U.S. director of national intelligence.
The analysis detected radioactive debris, indicating the explosive yield was less than one kiloton, said a statement from John Negroponte's office. That is relatively small for a nuclear test.
The first air sample collected after Pyongyang's announcement last week contained no radioactive debris, but a second one did.
CNN's Barbara Starr and Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.
Copyright 2006 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Lawless | |
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Earlier, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill said in Seoul, South Korea, that another test of a nuclear device would be regarded as North Korea thumbing its nose at the world.
"I think we will all regard a second test as a very belligerent answer on North Korea's part to the international community, and I think the international community will have no choice but to respond very clearly to the DPRK on this," Hill said as he left talks with South Korea's top nuclear envoy. |
What is everyones thoughts on this? Do you think that they are thumbing their noses at the rest of the world? Will there be a world wide decision to bring disciplinary actions toward North Korea? Should the US be involved in this? I just want to know peoples thoughts, without going into a heated debate of right, or wrong.
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| Posted by: Steevo | | Hi... as a noobie, thanks for the opportunity :-)
I think North Korea is out of touch to a point but they're no dummies. Iran has no intentions not to develope such weapons and the EU and UN have bent over backwards making concessions, giving them a world stage which has brought respect albiet covered with fear. North Korea is probably impressed and thinks they can enhance their stature as well. They've already thumbed their noses, a second test won't officialy affirm that.
Any diciplinary actions have to have the full backing of China, and to a lesser extent Russia. This has to be emphasized repeatedly above all else: it is effectively in their hands. China will only act if they feel Kim Jong il becomes too big of an embarrasment. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Sayzak | |
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Lawless said this in post #2 :
What is everyones thoughts on this? Do you think that they are thumbing their noses at the rest of the world? Will there be a world wide decision to bring disciplinary actions toward North Korea? Should the US be involved in this? I just want to know peoples thoughts, without going into a heated debate of right, or wrong. |
Honestly... I feel politically raped by all the arguing going on regarding war. It's hard for me to find a position on this at all. It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't know what to believe. If I dismiss anything that could be considered propoganda I am left to conclude that I know nothing. And it's a big waste of energy to take anyone's word for it, especially if they have an agenda. All the information being presented to me is packaged already somehow.
I feel powerless. So I guess I'm trying to say that I will know how I feel when/if the truth (whatever it is) is revealed. Which may not be in my lifetime.
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| Posted by: gaboman | | If the US really had the balls they bragged about when invading Iraq, they'd have jumped in and gotten rid of this 38-under-par-playing tool* a long time ago. It almost feels like it's too late, now... and still nothing's occuring.
*Which reminds me, do you know North Koreans are led to believe their president played the lowest-scoring game of golf ever? 38 below. No joke. He got 5 holes in one. Fortunately for me, that's more believable than an invisible man in the sky telling Bush to invade Iraq.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Sayzak said this in post #5 :
Honestly... I feel politically raped by all the arguing going on regarding war. It's hard for me to find a position on this at all. It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't know what to believe. |
Look at it this way. We have imperfect institutions like the UN and international law and things like the Geneva convention etc. Either we start to abide by international law and take these institutions and rules seriously and try to make them stronger, or we stop with all the pretence and BS and start telling the truth to the public about our foreign policies, which have very little to do with democracy and liberty and freedom and everything to do with protecting our own self-interests.
Iraq was a military and economic strategic war about power and resources. If we believe in real democracy then we should understand the importance of such a war to our way of life and should go to war for that actual reason, and not the BS we were fed.
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| Posted by: Dreamzwalker | | I wonder when England is going to get on the ball and do something about this crazy guy in korea.... | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Dreamzwalker said this in post #8 :
I wonder when England is going to get on the ball and do something about this crazy guy in korea.... |
The US was impotent to scare, persuade, threaten, or prevent N Korea from testing nukes, so why do you think N Korea would listen to England?
N Korea have apologised to China for carrying out the test.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Dreamzwalker said this in post #8 :
I wonder when England is going to get on the ball and do something about this crazy guy in korea.... |
Well the UK not England has done more than the US ever has. we were part of the talks we worked closely with China to get a solution we assisted in the firt draft resolution and we arned the North that a nuke test would be unacceptable and would be met with severe consquences. Meanwhile back at the White Hoiuse Bush, Condi and Rummy continued to act like a bunch of five year olds and refuse to talk to the North. Face it we have been on the situatin for long time ask yourself what has Bush done? sent Boulton to the UN and get Condi to make a few empty threats.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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lodgebo said this in post #10 :
Well the UK not England has done more than the US ever has. ...and we warned the North that a nuke test would be unacceptable and would be met with severe consquences.
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So where are the severe consequences?
What's the point of talking? We don't like where they are headed and they know it. What is there to talk about?
The Clinton administration talked to him. They even got him to make promises. He broke the promises and now we are supposed to talk to him? What is needed is force like a blockade. The only problem is that the country is so distressed by poverty that the stress needed to make Kim capitulate will likely kill everybody else in the process. It's a hard problem.
I don't think that anyone has the gumption to do anything about NK or Iran for that matter. They will have to make the first strike to produce enough world retaliatory gumption.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #11 :
What's the point of talking? We don't like where they are headed and they know it. What is there to talk about?
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Wow, tought talk. I suggest you get down to the recruiting office immediately and enlist. America needs no-nonsense tought guys like you, and with some weapons training you'll be ready and willing to jump right in and take on the might of the million or so N Korean army. Good luck.
btw - China seems to have a big influence on N Korea and whatever they said to Kim Il-Jong, it worked. N Korea apologised and said they wouldn't do it again.
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| Posted by: h@ts | | Interesting debate now going on in China. There has been three attempted military coups in N Korea over the last couple of decades. Could China succeed in encouraging and supporting such a move against Kim Il-Jong.
And morally do China have a leg to stand on in taking such action, or is this purely strategic interests at work here: N Korea is becoming troublesome to Chinese rise as a superpower?
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China may back coup against Kim
Michael Sheridan, Beijing
16oct06
THE Chinese are openly debating "regime change" in Pyongyang after last week's nuclear test by their confrontational neighbour.
Diplomats in Beijing said at the weekend that China and all the major US allies believed North Korea's claim that it had detonated a nuclear device. US director of national intelligence John Negroponte circulated a report that radiation had been detected at a site not far from the Chinese border.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.a...0587473,00.html |
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #12 :
Wow, tought talk. I suggest you get down to the recruiting office immediately and enlist. America needs no-nonsense tought guys like you, and with some weapons training you'll be ready and willing to jump right in and take on the might of the million or so N Korean army. Good luck.
btw - China seems to have a big influence on N Korea and whatever they said to Kim Il-Jong, it worked. N Korea apologised and said they wouldn't do it again. |
You must have misunderstood me. The tough talk is coming from NK and from their adversaries. Obviously talk does not work. In the end, we either stand up to them or we don't. They are tallking tough, but heading down the road to force. Should we just keep talking as they run over us?
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #14 :
You must have misunderstood me. The tough talk is coming from NK and from their adversaries. Obviously talk does not work. In the end, we either stand up to them or we don't. They are tallking tough, but heading down the road to force. Should we just keep talking as they run over us? |
Talk did work. China talked, N Korea apologised and promised not to do it again. Although Condi Rice isn't having any of it:
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AGENCIES, MOSCOW
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006, Page 1
Advertising Advertising
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice cast doubt yesterday on reports that North Korea had pledged to stop nuclear tests and had apologized for the the test on Oct 9, saying it seemed bent instead on escalating the crisis.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fro...0/22/2003332798 |
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | Euclid you are saying talking has not worked and what the US acting like a spolied brat and ignoring them for eight years has been oh so effective right? fact is the N. Korea were not happy with the 6 nation talks as the US was not going to be included maybe you should think about that.
As for the severe consquences they are the same severe consquences the US have promised UN sanctions thats all they can do. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #15 :
Talk did work. China talked, N Korea apologised and promised not to do it again. Although Condi Rice isn't having any of it:
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I think it is a little early to conclude that the apology worked. Until we see a cesation of NK's nuclear pursuit, the apology is just more talk.
To me the apology seems fishy.
I guess it went like this: You have China and NK next door to each other and NK does not know that China is opposed to NK nuclear testing because China has never told NK. Then NK fires a nuke and China tells NK that they did not like that, so NK apolgizes.
Or maybe it went like this:
China has long made it known to NK that they do not want NK testing nukes, but NK forgot China's admonition on the subject, and went ahead and tested a nuke. Then China reminded NK that they did not want NK testing nukes, so NK apologized for the oversight and told China they would not do it again.
Yeah right.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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lodgebo said this in post #16 :
Euclid you are saying talking has not worked and what the US acting like a spolied brat and ignoring them for eight years has been oh so effective right? fact is the N. Korea were not happy with the 6 nation talks as the US was not going to be included maybe you should think about that.
As for the severe consquences they are the same severe consquences the US have promised UN sanctions thats all they can do. |
I am not defending Bush for upholding severe consequences. The US rehetoric is as much an empty threat as any other.
I did not know that the US was refusing to participate in the six-party talks. I thought the US was only refusing to bypass the six-party talks and meet one-on-one with NK.
Wasn't it NK that actually boycotted the six-party talks for a year because they did not like their nuclear ambitions criticised?
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #17 :
I think it is a little early to conclude that the apology worked. Until we see a cesation of NK's nuclear pursuit, the apology is just more talk.
To me the apology seems fishy.
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There probably never will be world free from conflict or trouble. That's humans for you. Fishy is better than war. Pretty much everything all governments do in regard to policy either domestic or foreign is fishy and the public is usually on a need to know basis.
Are you really alarmed because N Korea tested a nuke? Or are you alarmed because Bush wants you to be alarmed?
For that matter are you alarmed that the US has enough nukes to destroy the world several times over. Or are you alarmed that American is conducting aggressive wars in the Middle East, apparently for WMD, but then it turns out it was really about terrorism, or maybe liberty, then democracy, or now it's about getting a stable government and leader ruthless enough to can crack down on the violence there, sort of like what Saddam Hussein managed to achieve in 6 months after the first Gulf war? Isn't that alarming you?
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #20 :
There probably never will be world free from conflict or trouble. That's humans for you. Fishy is better than war. Pretty much everything all governments do in regard to policy either domestic or foreign is fishy and the public is usually on a need to know basis.
Are you really alarmed because N Korea tested a nuke? Or are you alarmed because Bush wants you to be alarmed?
For that matter are you alarmed that the US has enough nukes to destroy the world several times over. Or are you alarmed that American is conducting aggressive wars in the Middle East, apparently for WMD, but then it turns out it was really about terrorism, or maybe liberty, then democracy, or now it's about getting a stable government and leader ruthless enough to can crack down on the violence there, sort of like what Saddam Hussein managed to achieve in 6 months after the first Gulf war? Isn't that alarming you? |
No I am not alarmed that the US has nukes or at any of the other items you mentioned. And I don't have any views because someone else wants me to; not even Bush. Of the things you mentioned that I might find alarming, I would say NK with nukes is of my greatest concern.
And the issue to me is not who has nukes, but rather the intent of those who have them. I don't trust NK's intent.
On one hand, you say talking works because China talked NK out of nuke development as evidenced by NK's apology. Then when I said the apology seems fishy, you dismiss it because there is lots of fishy in the world. But if the apology is fishy, talking did not work. Certainly you agree with that.
Fishy might be better than war, but fishy can also cause wars.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #21 :
I don't trust NK's intent.
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And before the screw up in Iraq I'm sure N Korea knew America's intent when they put them on the "Axis of doctor Evil mastermind" list.
What do you think N Korea can do in the region, threat-wise? Is there anyone you actually think they might nuke and why?
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | Well I don't believe that they have that range yet. Although I would agree with Heck that S.Korea would have a bullseye on it although I think that N.Korea would be wary of hitting a country that would put China in fallout range so you could probably scratch the Japan idea. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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EUCLID said this in post #18 :
I did not know that the US was refusing to participate in the six-party talks. I thought the US was only refusing to bypass the six-party talks and meet one-on-one with NK.
No one on one talks is what N.Korea has wanted but the US has always refaused apparently Bush has a list of countries he does not talk to Iran and N.Korea are on that list. What a diplomat that Bush is.
Wasn't it NK that actually boycotted the six-party talks for a year because they did not like their nuclear ambitions criticised? |
Well that is partly true they did boycott the talks because they felt they were not getting anywhere, I think the Germans agreed and Merkel offered a break of a few weeks. The main problem for the north was that any offer made by thew EU countries, Russia and China had to be agreed and then they had to inform the US and if the US agreed ok, if they did not they were back to phase one. The North argued this was pathetic and left the talks. Now I am not one to agree with them but in this case they were right this was a pathetic way to hold talks.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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lodgebo said this in post #25 :
Well I don't believe that they have that range yet. Although I would agree with Heck that S.Korea would have a bullseye on it although I think that N.Korea would be wary of hitting a country that would put China in fallout range so you could probably scratch the Japan idea. |
But does anyone have any reason to think N Korea would want to nuke any of it's neighbours? The lunatic angle isn't convincing - megalomaniac's priorities tend to be to stay in power, and launching an attack would be the end of him.
The Russians have said it would be very dangerous pushing N Korea into a corner over this nuke thing. N Korea is isolated, unpopular, insular, and has no friends. No one would support it if it attacked anyone. So why shouldn't we assume the nukes are purely defensive?
Is the only real danger with N Korea the chance that it may give up or sell some of his nuclear material.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #27 :
But does anyone have any reason to think N Korea would want to nuke any of it's neighbours? Th
The Russians have said it would be very dangerous pushing N Korea into a corner over this nuke thing. N Korea is isolated, unpopular, insular, and has no friends.
Is the only real danger with N Korea the chance that it may give up or sell some of his nuclear material. |
You ask if anyone thinks NK would attack its neighbors. Then you point out that Russia believes NK is dangerous if backed into a corner. I would submit that NK feels like they are backed into a corner, and have felt that way ever since the Korean War. I think that is their national mood. If I am not mistaken, I understand that NK and SK are still technically at war, but in a state of ceasefire.
So I would say that Russia is right that an NK backed into a corner is dangerous, that NK feels they are backed into a corner, that NK is therefore dangerous, and that there is a reasonable probability that NK will attack its neighbors. Getting nukes enables them to make more strident demands, and if their demands are ignored, they retaliate with stronger demands.
Yes there is a danger of NK exporting nukes besides.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #28 :
You ask if anyone thinks NK would attack its neighbors. Then you point out that Russia believes NK is dangerous if backed into a corner. I would submit that NK feels like they are backed into a corner, and have felt that way ever since the Korean War. I think that is their national mood. If I am not mistaken, I understand that NK and SK are still technically at war, but in a state of ceasefire.
So I would say that Russia is right that an NK backed into a corner is dangerous, that NK feels they are backed into a corner, that NK is therefore dangerous, and that there is a reasonable probability that NK will attack its neighbors. Getting nukes enables them to make more strident demands, and if their demands are ignored, they retaliate with stronger demands.
Yes there is a danger of NK exporting nukes besides. |
Putin said backing NK into a corner over it's bomb tests is dangerous.
I'll ask again why would NK attack any of it's neighbours? For what reason?
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Putin said one of the reasons Pyongyang had resorted to conducting the test was that “not all participants in negotiations were able to find the correct tone...”
“You must never push one of the participants in talks into a corner and place it in a situation from which it can find no way out other than boosting tension,”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15411541 |
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #29 :
Putin said backing NK into a corner over it's bomb tests is dangerous.
I'll ask again why would NK attack any of it's neighbours? For what reason?
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Until the reasons materialize, it is difficult to say what they might be. However, when one does materialize, it may be to late to stop NK from attacking someone. Until a specific reason develops, I base my belief that NK would attack one its neighbors solely on the attitude of NK which flows from their feeling of being persecuted. With that attitude, reasons to attack will surely materialize. Anybody who builds nuclear weapons in retaliation against someone for using an incorrect tone has got an ax to grind.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #30 :
[B]
Until the reasons materialize, it is difficult to say what they might be. |
So no reason then?
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| However, when one does materialize, |
And can you think of a reason that would make it materialise?
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| Until a specific reason develops, I base my belief that NK would attack one its neighbors solely on the attitude of NK which flows from their feeling of being persecuted. |
There's no logical reason to believe that N Korea would nuke someone because they feel "persecuted". How would nuking a neigbour help?
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| Anybody who builds nuclear weapons in retaliation against someone for using an incorrect tone has got an ax to grind. |
I take it "anybody" includes the US, UK, France, Pakistan, India, Russia etc etc.
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #31 :
I take it "anybody" includes the US, UK, France, Pakistan, India, Russia etc etc. |
No, the list pretty much only includes NK and Iran right now.
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| Posted by: drew1980 | | nk can have a nuke but if they use them on us or sk then thare well be no more nk, for the US peace keepers 10for10 thats 100 bombs and thats not all of the b1s,2s,subs and ships that can give it to em just the peace keepers will blow them off the planet i think that bomb can cover all of nk
if all of them let go with a can of whoop ass thats a big bang and a big hole.
kim's kidding him shelf  | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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drew1980 said this in post #33 :
nk can have a nuke but if they use them on us or sk then thare well be no more nk,... |
Not necessarily. Not in this new era. If NK hit the U.S. with one missile attack, we should of course wipe them off the map. But what good would that do? The damage they have inflicted is already done, and not likely to go further. Better we talk to them to learn why they have taken such a drastic measure as destroying Seattle (for instance).
Besides, wiping a little country like that off the map would seem grossly unfair to the world at large. It would appear to be the action of a bully.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #34 :
Not necessarily. Not in this new era. If NK hit the U.S. with one missile attack, we should of course wipe them off the map. But what good would that do? |
You've hit the nail on the head. What good would it do? The same applies to NK. What good would it do for them to act in a way that would mean their won annihilation? I very much doubt the destruction of Kim Il-Jong own country, the place he has the pleasure of ruling over, is high on his list of things he wants to see happen. So what good would it do him firing a nuke at the US?
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| Besides, wiping a little country like that off the map would seem grossly unfair to the world at large. It would appear to be the action of a bully. |
If Seattle was nuked by NK, the last thing you'd be worrying about is whether anyone is accusing you of being bully
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North Korea Forum: U.S. officials: N. Korea may be planning 2nd nuclear test
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