A Hollow Ceasefire Agreement - Israel & Palestine

A Hollow Ceasefire Agreement

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Posted by: EUCLID

This was a violent conflict between Israel and Hezbollah that created a secondary conflict between the violence of first conflict and the sensibilities of the rest of the world, led by the U.N. So the world’s adversary in this secondary conflict is simply the violence.

Thus the mindset of the U.N. longs for a ceasefire in which both sides can claim victory. How perfectly politically correct. Both sides win. There are no losers, so nobody’s self esteem gets damaged. The only objective is to end the violence. It makes no difference who started it. Both sides are equally to blame for the violence. There is no judgmentalism, except for the simplistic judgment that violence is the enemy.

Today, the world is learning just how meaningless and symbolic the U.N. ceasefire really is. Rice is crowing about the success of the ceasefire, but admits it will be difficult to impose its requirements. Of course, the most difficult requirement is the disarming of Hezbollah. This was presumed to be a part of the deal, but as it turns out, there is nobody willing to do it, and Hezbollah has refused to do it voluntarily.

However, we do have leverage, Ms. Rice assures us. She said that if Hezbollah refuses to disarm, we will punish their self-esteem by calling them terrorists... And Israel is slowly coming to the numbing realization of the consequences of fighting a war for their survival while trying to appease the politically correct, schoolyard mentality of the U.N.

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Posted by: Dreamzwalker

Hizb'allah is already claiming this as a victory for the Terrorist order - shooting guns in the air and waving around the leaders photograph like a god.
They broke the other 2 ceasefires and they will break this one as well.
the U.N. is usless. All they want to do is talk talk talk. perhaps if france or russia gets nuked they will actually want to do something other then sit with their thumbs up their asses.

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Posted by: P.O.T.U.S.

Where are the two Israeli soldiers? I'm surprised Israel agreed to the ceasefire. They were under pressure from the Appeasement-commies at the U.N., to be sure. Perhaps if they had started out more decisively and had committed to an all-out offensive from the outset, as they should have, they could have accomplished more. As it is, Islamofascists win another P.R. victory for their brainwashed Islamo-masses. And the ceasefire will be broken. And thus it goes…

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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Dreamzwalker said this in post #2 :
Hizb'allah is already claiming this as a victory for the Terrorist order - shooting guns in the air and waving around the leaders photograph like a god.


Hezbollah claims victory in this war because Isreal failed to accomplish what they set out to do, which was according to the Israeli PM, to free the two captured soldiers. Of course everyone knows that wasn't the real reason. The actual reason was to destroy or at least weaken Hezbollah (before a possible attack on Iran or Syria) but this plan worse than failed. The bombing of Lebanon and the subsequent need to send 1000s of IDF troops into Lebanon where they encountered fierce resistance stregnthened Hezbollah's image and turned them into heroes in the Middle East. You tell me how Israel won or succeeded in anything they set out to achieve?

Many comentators now say PM Olmert's days are numbered.

quote:
They broke the other 2 ceasefires and they will break this one as well.


What will Israel do if they break the ceasfire? Would it be okay to you if Israel broke the ceasefire?

Also, is the state of Israel actually threatened by Hezbollah? Look at what's just happened. Hezbollah could do nothing to stop Israel destroying Lebanon in just a few weeks. Has Israel been destroyed by Hezbollah? Who is still king of the castle in the Middel East? Israel of course, backed by the US.
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Posted by: Dekka00

is the state of Israel threatened by Hezbollah?

are you freakin' kidding me?

YES.

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Posted by: P.O.T.U.S.

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #5 :
is the state of Israel threatened by Hezbollah?

are you freakin' kidding me?

YES.


Is da Pope Catholic.

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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #5 :
is the state of Israel threatened by Hezbollah?

are you freakin' kidding me?

YES.



So you think Hezbollah threatens the the state of Israel? What prey tell would they use to achieve this destruction? And if Hezbollah have the capacity to destroy Israel, what have they been doing for the last few weeks as Israel turned Lebanon into a fish barrel and used it for shooting practice?
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Posted by: HECK!

While you make a solid point, H11, I have to inject a few historical points so we can all gain perspective.

Way back in the good ol' early 80's, Israel invaded Lebanon. Not saying this invasion wasn't justified, sure the PLO and Syria were giving them all sorts of headaches (what's new, eh?) This little invasion created Hezbollah. Not to mention the thousands of Palestinian refugees that had been living there for decades were a little ticked as it was.

Fast forward. Now Hezbollah decides to raid and shell Israel, captures a few soldiers, and Israel lights them up.

My point is there are so many players in this f'd up game and so much history, to be able to quickly tip your hat to one side without looking at the big picture is to disregard history. We focus on the two soldiers that were picked up, as if that was the one thing that has somehow retroactively started 60 years of hostility. They are both right and they are both wrong. The only reason Americans seem to be up at arms now is because of the campaign of terror in a scared post-9/11 society. And to play the devil's advocate, remember America regards Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. The EU does not- and they have to live near them.

As for the ceasefire, give me a break. It could last a week, month, year. But we'll all be right back here talking about Israel, Palestine, Hezbollah/Lebanon, PLO/Palestine or Syria fighting again real soon.

-HECK!

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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Heavens11 said this in post #8 :
To all: what would your reaction be if Hezbollah turned its random rocket launches onto your hometown? Would your reaction be to ignore them since they're not a serious threat to your country? Or would you wish your country to retaliate?


One thing's certain, Israel's "retaliation" against Hezbollah and Lebanon did not make Israelis safer. So to your question, what would I do (in Israel's position) - I'd start looking for another answer other than this tit-for-tat violence because that's clearly not helping. And not forgetting with each year that passes the Arabs/Muslims states are getting better weapons. Does that mean the situation in the Middle East is hopeless? Could well be.

Being facetious, maybe Israel could build a giant roof onto their wall.
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Posted by: EUCLID

quote:
h@ts said this in post #4 :


Hezbollah claims victory in this war because Isreal failed to accomplish what they set out to do,

Many comentators now say PM Olmert's days are numbered.


Yes I think Israel lost this. But they lost because they paid too much heed to the appeasers. There will be tremendous reprecussions of doubt and regret within Israel as this fully sinks in. At the very least, Olmert will go.
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
EUCLID said this in post #11 :Yes I think Israel lost this. But they lost because they paid too much heed to the appeasers.


Appeasers? Olmert had full US backing to destroy Lebanon. You think if he'd killed more civilians it would have been a success? I heard some army guy talking on the radio the other day and he said the military has know for 90 years that bombing alone rarely achieves it's goal, especially against militia and gorilla organisastions. But for some reason Israel thought differntly.

Israel lost becaue they miscalculated, and displayed the kind of arrogance because of their superior overwhelming fire power, that's usually associated with the Bush administration.
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Heavens11 said this in post #13 :


Instead of "being in Israel's position", what would you do if Hezbollah launched it's random rocket attack at your hometown in England? How would you react if your home was being attacked? That was the question I was attempting to pose originally.

As for me -- if my home were randomly attacked, there would not be a place on earth the attacker could hide that I would not find him/her. The attacker(s) would be constantly looking over their shoulder to see if I was present. When I find them, I won't leave enough of them to make an identification.


Israel have just done what you said - and failed.

And your question doesn't relate to the issue of Israel and Hezbollah because their conflict has been going on for decades.

If you asked me what I'd do about a violent problem I couldn't solve with a neighbout that had been going on for decades, with virtually no chance of a solution, then I would say I'd move. Simple as that. Life's too short.
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Posted by: Dreamzwalker

quote:
h@ts said this in post #4 :

What will Israel do if they break the ceasfire? Would it be okay to you if



Hizb'allah attacks so therefore contract is void no such thing as ceasefire any more so israel can't break the ceasefire.
same visa versa.
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Posted by: EUCLID

quote:
h@ts said this in post #12 :


Appeasers? Olmert had full US backing to destroy Lebanon. You think if he'd killed more civilians it would have been a success? I heard some army guy talking on the radio the other day and he said the military has know for 90 years that bombing alone rarely achieves it's goal, especially against militia and gorilla organisastions. But for some reason Israel thought differntly.

Israel lost becaue they miscalculated, and displayed the kind of arrogance because of their superior overwhelming fire power, that's usually associated with the Bush administration.


Israel may have had full US backing for about 2-3 days, but Bush lost his nerve and sent Rice out to help the UN shut Israel's water off. Israel lost because they held back. They held back because the the entire world, half the US, and all of the US news networks painted them as a bully, and promised a legitimate ceasefire would be immediately forthcoming. Israel withdrew and found out that Hezbollah had not accepted the deal. Beautiful work UN / Rice / Bush.
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Posted by: Dreamzwalker

quote:
h@ts said this in post #14 :

If you asked me what I'd do about a violent problem I couldn't solve with a neighbout that had been going on for decades, with virtually no chance of a solution, then I would say I'd move. Simple as that. Life's too short.


So are you saying that israel should move or hizb'allah?

I think we should take all the mexicans in mexico and move them into israel.
move all the people from israel to mexico.

That would kill 2 birds with one stone.
it would stop illegals from entering the U.S. from mexico, and clear up the arab israel problem. It would just go from blowing up little israeli children to blowing up bud plants and opium flowers.
Bet the undecided nations would pass a resolution against that
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Posted by: Dreamzwalker

quote:
h@ts said this in post #7 :

So you think Hezbollah threatens the the state of Israel? What prey tell would they use to achieve this destruction? And if Hezbollah have the capacity to destroy Israel, what have they been doing for the last few weeks as Israel turned Lebanon into a fish barrel and used it for shooting practice?


shitting bricks


Yes they are a threat to the state of Israel. they have bombed israel for the last 6 years every month to every other month and they started it.

Now tell me something hats
how much information do you need, and where does it need to come from to show you that hizb'allah threw the first punch?

I've shown you united nations records that hiz'allah broke it, and i even posted some information from history books.
Seriously, there's no reason to even post anymore links about it or quotes because you'll disagree with it any how.
Do you hate israel that much to constantly defend Hizb'allah? That is what your doing, i know you don't want it to look like that, but You've even basically asked what did hizb'allah ever do to Israel in a past post. And people have shown you including me.
I'm not saying you need to support either but you should be able to see that hizb'allah started the conflict - by kidnapping the two soldiers this year and began it in 2000 as well. Or is the united nations information that you support so much so wrong because it says hizb'allah started it?
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Heavens11 said this in post #15 :


h@ts, I didn't ask you about a difference of opinion with your neighbor.

Discussions with you are senseless. Talking to a brick wall is easier... and more informative.


Your question "what would you do if Hezbollah launched it's random rocket attack at your hometown in England" is a stupid question. Why did Hezbollah fire a rocket at my town?
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Dreamzwalker said this in post #19 :
[B]Now tell me something hats
how much information do you need, and where does it need to come from to show you that hizb'allah threw the first punch?

I've shown you united nations records that hiz'allah broke it, and i even posted some information from history books.
Seriously, there's no reason to even post anymore links about it or quotes because you'll disagree with it any how.


I've yet to read any quotes from you proving anything.

quote:
Do you hate israel that much to constantly defend Hizb'allah?


You do like to make stuff up. Have I defended Hezbollah? Don't think so.

quote:
That is what your doing, i know you don't want it to look like that, but You've even basically asked what did hizb'allah ever do to Israel in a past post.


So in your view, asking questions is supporting Hezbollah?

quote:
I'm not saying you need to support either but you should be able to see that hizb'allah started the conflict - by kidnapping the two soldiers this year and began it in 2000 as well.


The war Israel embarked on was clearly planned a long time before these two soldiers were kidnapped. As I've posted, Israel can and does kidnap Palastinians with impunity. If you don't care about that then Hezbollah and the Palastinians do, so too bad.
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Dreamzwalker said this in post #18 :


So are you saying that israel should move or hizb'allah?


No, I'm saying what I would do. If people want to exist in a warzone their entire life that's up to them.
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Heavens11 said this in post #23 :
My hypothetical question wanted to know how you would react if your hometown -- or your own home -- was attacked for no reason at all.


No-one EVER shoots missiles into another country "for no reason at all", but to answer your hypothetically question, I'd go ape. If I had some hypothetical weapons myself I'd shoot back. So what? This does not relate to the complicated issue of Israeli, Hezbollah, Palestinian conflict, so why ask?
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Posted by: EUCLID

quote:
h@ts said this in post #24 :


No-one EVER shoots missiles into another country "for no reason at all",


True, but the question is not whether there is a reason, but whether it is a reason that a sane, rational, unbiased jury would consider to be a valid reason.
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Posted by: P.O.T.U.S.

There is no ceasefire. There never was a ceasefire. The "truce" is a joke. Hizbollah started re-arming via Iran and Syria the moment the firing stopped. Israel needs to finish the job. Whatever it takes, Hizbollah must be disarmed and kept that way.

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Posted by: Dreamzwalker

....

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Posted by: Dreamzwalker

quote:
h@ts said this in post #21 :


I've yet to read any quotes from you proving anything.




Then i guess the fact that the un quotes and link i gave are incorrect about hizb'allah starting the issue.

i don't think you even read them
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Dreamzwalker said this in post #29 :


Then i guess the fact that the un quotes and link i gave are incorrect about hizb'allah starting the issue.

i don't think you even read them


You posted me a whole website. Here take a look at this, it proves the point I was trying to make: http://gregpalast.com/ etc etc. See?

I'll read stuff you post but I'm not searching through stuff you post. Do the work yourself.
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Heavens11 said this in post #26 :


So why ask, you say? Because it's easy for us to sit back and put a spin on how the parties in the conflict should react/respond; it's another when we put ourselves in their positions (hypothetically) and ask ourselves how we would react/respond if it were us being fired upon.


I told you how I would react to your hypothectical question. How would you react to this:

While the world's media gaze was focused on the Gaza pullout, Israel quietly expanded settlements further into occupied territory in the West Bank, making the possibility of a nation state for the Palastinians less and less viable?

If Israel continues to expand and take land with walls, there will eventually be no possibility of a Palastinian state, and for some Israelis that is their stated intention - the destruction of Palastine.
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