Israel, democracy, world peace and all that jazz |
| Posted by: Ireland | | Considering how UN resolution 1559 is now considered a sacred text of the utmost importance by both Israel and the United States, nations that both openly hold contempt for the UN, it is only wise to place such text in a context.
The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined, including Iraq.
Resolution 106: The Palestine Question (29 Mar 1955) 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid.
Resolution 107: The Palestine Question (30 Mar)
Resolution 108: The Palestine Question (8 Sep)
Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
Resolution 242 (November 22, 1967): Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. Calls on Israel's neighbors to end the state of belligerency and calls upon Israel to reciprocate by withdraw its forces from land claimed by other parties in 1967 war. Interpreted commonly today as calling for the Land for peace principle as a way to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict
Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
Resolution 338 (October 22, 1973): cease fire in Yom Kippur War
Resolution 339 (October 23, 1973): Confirms Res. 338, dispatch UN observers.
Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
Resolution 425 (1978): 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed as of June 16, 2000.
Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".. Israeli settlements in the occupied territories thus declared illegal.
Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
Resolution 478 (August 20, 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.
Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".
Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".
Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".
Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
Like the US of course, for Israel the UN only becomes important when it serves their interest. Like the US of course, for Israel, International law and the Geneva convention only becomes important when it serves their interest, as a tool or prerequisite to beat your enemy.
The UN estimate that close to 600 Lebanese people are dead now. Roughly half a million people are displaced. Within that context, a national disaster for the Lebanese people that will never be forgotten, what of Lebanon and it's people now?
More war, more reasons to kill the other side. The naivety posessed by some that these wars, in Lebanon, in Iraq, in Palestine, in Afghanistan, that they bring about peace, it's alarming.
Exactly how many people have to die for peace to begin?
Israel are dropping bombs on populated cities and towns. They are killing hundreds of innocent people guilty of nothing. They are destroying the economy of a country guilty of nothing. They are reducing cities to rubble, the visual comparasions to September 11th aftermath footage are astounding. Have you seen these images?
Innocent people are being killed by Israel as if to pressure Lebanese people to blame Hezbollah for Israel deliberately targeting civilians in the first place. That the harder Israel punish the Lebanese people the stronger the rejection of Hezbollah will be. Has the world learned nothing from Northern Ireland, the IRA was at its most popular when Margaret Thatcher was in power. The stronger the actions taken by Thatcher the stronger the support, she did more for recruitment to the IRA than anyone in Ireland.
Israel, you are targeting civilians. You are ensuring this conflict escalates. No victory in any battle will translate as a victory in the war. The people who will attack Israel tomorrow are only being born today. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | Israel hae percission weapons and has not used them if they did they would not have to flatten cities so why not use them, why bomb the whole country when the south is a Hizbollah stronghold, why ignore the fact that orders are coming from Hizbollah HQ in Syria and the money is coming from Iran ( maybe), why have UN peace monitors died after beging Israel 10 times not to bomb them, I am sure an eleventh request would have done the trick right, why is it that the majority of the world pleads for peace they say no, hell the UN asked for 3 day ceasefire but Israel rejected yet the ceasefire was to get vital aid in to Lebanon.
While all this goes on Hizbollah leaders are probably delighted about all the future members Israel has created. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #4 :
As for aid into Lebanon, avenues of passage already exist (note the arrival of a US aid ship today bringing food to feed 800,000 people). |
Hold on, let me get this straight - America is supplying aid to 800,000 displaced Lebanese, who are displaced and need aid because of the American supplied bombs dropped on them? Doesn't this sound like maybe the lunatics have taken over the asylum?
Or do you think something closer to the truth is that the Lebanese are irrelevant pawns. They are merely caught up in Bush, Blair and Israel's enthusiasm for their real target - Iran and Syria? What we're seeing now is the continuation of the Afghan and Iraq war. This is THE opportunity they've been praying for. Obviously the taking of two Israeli soldiers wasn't anything like 9/11 as a pretext but Bush only has two years left so he's grabbed at what he can.
Now the only thing left to do is - how to really turn the screw on the Arab world (or in other words continue to bomb and destroy Lebanon while at the same time saying it's all Syria and Iran's fault) so as to widen this conflict and drag in the real people you want to destroy.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #6 :
When a person shoots someone, who is to blame -- the shooter or the person that sold the bullets to the shooter? |
You think that the US continuing to ship cluster bombs and god knows what else to Israel while Israel blows up Lebanon is the same as a guy in a hardware shop selling bullets? I don't think so. Don't pretend that this isn't the Bush governemnt's war just as much as it's Israels. Bush is a bone-headed idiot when it comes to foreign policy. Everything he touches turns to ****. I can see this going as badly wrong as Iraq.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #4 :
The US also has precision weapons; however, no weapon in the world can maneuver around one human being in order to strike another.
Of coyurse the Us has percission weapons if America has got it so has Israel. However we are not talking about people dodging bombs we are talking about Israel flattening cities when they only need to bomb one or two buildings. Look at Tyre do you think all the citizens of what was the city of tyre were Hizbollah militants? percission weapons would not require the whole city to be flattend.
As for bombing the whole country, Israel is only bombing that area of the country controlled by Hezbollah (between Beirut and the southern border of Lebanon).
If that us the case then why has Tripoli, Ballbek, Bekka Valley and Abdeh seen intensive bombing? Also you are wrong Beriut has been bombed but if you look back at the way this conflict has been going you would know that the major areas controlled by Hizbollah are in Bint Jabal andMaroun Al Ras all in the south and in the case of the latter practically on the border. Beirut is not a militant Hizbollah stronghold.
As for aid into Lebanon, avenues of passage already exist (note the arrival of a US aid ship today bringing food to feed 800,000 people). |
But that's not the point it shows the hypocrits in the Israelli government. Yes the US is a good and steadfast organisation when they pas things like 1551 but when they ak for a break in the conflict so that they can deliver aid they become irrelevant.
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| Posted by: Ireland | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #2 :
Israel is not targeting civilians; Israel is targeting Hezbollah fighters. Israel is not responsible for Hezbollah using innocent civilians as human shields. Israel is not responsible for Hezbollah using civilian domiciles as launch zones for rockets shot at Israel. As long as Hezbollah continues this practice, the death toll will climb in Lebanon. |
Israel did not then drop a bomb on a three story building in Qana, a building that sheltered elderly women and children from Israeli bombardment? Israel did not do this before ten years ago targeting a UN shelter where over 100 innocent Lebanese were hiding from the bombs Israel were dropping on them.
Your little visual of hairy terrorists running around Lebanon using children as umbrellas against the falling bombs, BOMBS, is an image of convenience.
Israel, an occupying military force, is collectively punishing the innocent people of Lebanon. The IDF releases a statement to the press that "residents were told to leave". Oh how nice of them. First they tell people to leave their homes because they will drop bombs on them, then at the same time bomb petrol stations denying the population access to fuel their cars to do just that, while also targeting "anything that moves" on the roads.
You are blind by choice. Talk to Lebanese people and tell them you are not deliberately targeting them in a war they never initiated, yet one that has ensured between 600 and 800 have died, half a million displaced and an economy in ruins. Have you not seen the photographs of Beirut. Taking your twisted explaination of the Lebanese death toll, there had to be Hezbollah positions in entire blocks, street after street, row of building after another. "Ten multistory buildings for evey Hezbollah rocket" Israel promised, oh how they have delivered, and to the cost of innocent life not deemed worthy in any sense whatsoever.
Defeating and disarming Hezbollah remains the so called "goal". Really?
Israel has ensured that Hezbollah will not only survive but due to it being seen now as the only force protecting the Lebanese people from this sick slaughter, it will prosper. Democracy is alive and well in Lebanon. Watch the polls. Wait for the votes. Hezbollah will move forward politically and militarily from this and your next door neighbour will not just disapear. Far from it. And you can ***** and moan about Syria and Iran sending arms all you like, while the hypocracy of US AID being given to the Lebanese while supplying bombs to Israel to inflict the humanitarian disaster which perpetuates the need for AID in the first place, continues unabated. How sick is this hypocracy, to use AID as a P.R tool, a family image for the ten o'clock news, balancing up the bomb supply.
Israel has created this mess. Israel will be the big loser in all of it, and it has no-one to blame but itself.
What is happening today in Lebanon is shocking, it is brutal and inhumane. Israel treats the lives of the people of Lebanon as worthless, canon fodder. Acceptable to lose for war they did not start nor want to be a part of. This is what Israel has to offer its neighbours, WAR and Humanitarian disaster.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | Can anyone show me any resolution that condemns and Arab states or Palestinians for any attacks on Israel? I’m having trouble finding any.
I do see lots of Arab sponsored legislation to condemn Israel, mainly Syria but the resolutions are so one sided it’s ridiculous.
Just a question I thought was worth posing. I really want to know the answer to this. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Ireland | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #11 :
Ireland, you are correct that the Lebanese people outside Hezbollah did not initiate the conflict; however, the Hezbollah did initiate the conflict by transgressing into Israel, killing Israelis and capturing others before retreating back into Lebanon.
Israel did not create this "mess" -- Hezbollah created it. I also find it somewhat hypocritical that a movement that sacrifices children in an effort to blow up Israeli civilians would decry the loss of children while using them as human shields.
Talk about being blind... |
Lets just get this straight. Every bomb in Lebanon, every innocent dead, every home destroyed, village, town and city burning, is the result of the Israeli military. It is Israel not Hezbollah that have killed 600 innocent people, many children. It is Israel not Hezbollah that have brought a humanitarian disaster to the Lebanese. It is Israel not Hezbollah that are dropping US supplied bombs from Israeli jets onto the homes of innocent civilians. It is Israel and Israel alone that have brought war to Lebanon. Thats the fact of it, pure and simple. Face it.
Israel has ruined Lebanon. It has ruined its progression its potential for peace and prosperity, it has ruined its economy, it has ruined its people. They are united against one enemy today, Israel, those who have delivered this slaughter upon them. Tell THEM how Hezbollah are holding THEIR children aloft as a "shield" from Israeli bombs, I'd be delighted to hear what THEY have to say to YOU in response. This visual suits you, this image is for you to gorge comfort from, not them. Meanwhile it is THEIR children that are dead.
I do not kill people. I do not destroy other people homes, lives and livelyhood. I do not spill blood, innocent or otherwise. I do not support the dropping of bombs on highly populated areas, on shelters harbouring children, on a country guilty of no crime.
You talk about "transgressing into Israel", "killing Israelis" "capturing". This initated the conflict you say.
What of Israels trangressions into Lebanon, into Palestine? What of Israels killing of innocent Lebanese, Palestinians, destruction of their homes to make way for settlements that "transgress" into their lands, permanently? What of Palestinians captured, of Lebanese captured?
You conclude that the very actions that Israel itself carries out against its neighbours on a DAILY basis is sufficient now to bring war and humanitarian catastrophe to the Lebanese today. A people guilty of nothing, absolutely nothing.
You choose not to recognise this, for your own comfort, you choose to be blind, and that has nothing to do with me whatsoever, that happens on your own time. Thats your choice to make and if you can live with that then good luck to you.
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | Heavens, the reason why Israel went into Lebanon in the first place back in 82 was just that, consistent launching of attacks against from Lebanon. When Israel goes in, they are unanimously condemned by the same Arab governments that encourage the attacks.
Nothing will ever change. They will never ever blame one militant or one Arab for their actions while simultaneously blaming Israel when they retaliate. This has been their way for years and quite frankly they will never change.
Hezbollah is just as responsible as Israel is for leveling civilian infrastructures by firing rockets from their hospital roofs and mosques and shelters. Hezbollah could set a military base smack dab in downtown Beirut and the Muslim world will never condemn them for it and again, at the end of the day, Israel will be blamed for creating the likes of Hezbollah in direct contrast of history and record. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #10 :
lodgebo stated, "Also you are wrong Beriut has been bombed"; I beg to differ.
In the first days of the conflict, the Beirut Airport, among other areas of Beirut, were bombed by the Israeli Air Force.
Well I am not sure why you brought this up but at least we agree that Beirut was bombed. I notice your silence on Tripoli, Ballbek, Abdeh and Beka valley.
I'd like to know your definition of "precision weapons". The definition I know is one of a direct hit on a target but with massive damage around the point of contact. Again, I tend to think you believe that a precision weapon will only kill the person or persons targeted and no one else. Wake up -- this isn't the movies. |
Well all I can say is that your definition is wrong. A percision weapon or laser guided weapon will hit the target and it will destroy the target but the damage withiun the surronded area will be minimal, a laser guided weapon wil not destroy a whole cioty like tyre but indiscrimite bombing will. Like I sadi we are not talking baout hitting peopole percsion weapons can't target people only buildings.
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| Posted by: HECK! | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #2 :
Israel is not targeting civilians; Israel is targeting Hezbollah fighters. Israel is not responsible for Hezbollah using innocent civilians as human shields. Israel is not responsible for Hezbollah using civilian domiciles as launch zones for rockets shot at Israel. As long as Hezbollah continues this practice, the death toll will climb in Lebanon. |
Dude, Israel is firing missles. People are dying. Do you really think they give two craps about civilian casualties vs. Hezzy figthers? Nope. Hezzy's aren't running around with Lebanise cvilians strapped to their back. Cut and dry it is not.
-HECK!
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #18 :
I'm sorry, lodgebo, but I beg to differ. I used to work in the defense industry, and there are not precision weapons that have that little of an explosive charge that only the target is killed. |
Well I was two years in the marines and four years in the SAS so I know how these things work. However it now seems clear why you used to work in the industry as you appear to have no clue. YET AGAIN you are talking about killing individuals I am talking about cities being destroyed and the fact remains that a percission laser guided bomb can destroy individual buildings while at the same time causing little or no damage to the surronding area. If you worked in the defence industry you should know that it's pretty basic.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #21 :
Yes, I do have CLUE! It was Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick! So there!!
You obvioulsy have no clue about these weapons as you claim they don't exsist.
Being in the marines for two years and in the SAS for four ears is not a glowing statement on your knowledge of weapons.
You obvioulsy know nothing about SAS wepaons training and I think I would know more by using them than you did by sitting in your office at that defence company.
I understand that collateral damage will occur when a precision laser-guided weapon is used. Are you sure Israel has the types of weapons you are touting, although I'm still don't believe they exist.
Of course they have those weapons who do you think sold them to Israel and is still selling them to Israel?. If you don't believe they exsist it strikes me as a strange question to ask me if I am sure israekl has these phantom bombs, but as usual with the exception of the Blackbird if America has it Israel has it. In fact I belive that the attack on Bekka valley used precission bombs.
I know there are explosives that can expel their energy in a particular direction. But you can't do that with a laser-guided weapon. And if "entire cities" are being destroyed, could it not be because other sites were targeted because of launchings sighted in other areas of the city? Or do you think Israel just decides to blow up the entire city just for the hell of it?
I think what you are syaing is that if there were multiple launches from diffrent parts of a city Israel would be justified in bombing the entire city and killing whatever was in that city? Well Tyre is a big city and there were not multiple launches coming from it. Also cities are being bombed that are too far away to be a threat to Israel and are not known as Hizbollah strongholds so maybe it is just for the hell of it.
And as for Tripoli, Ballbek, Abdeh and Beka Valley... it would stand to reason that if they were bombed it was to cut off supply lines from the outside so Hezbollah could not receive arms from Syria or Iran. |
So why not bomb the roads athat were right on the border? why bomb cities 20 miles away that have no proven links to Hizbollah, why is the road still passable if you are trying block things from getting through? why make such a fuss over blocking the port if you were worried about the roads to the north, why have the roads not been constantly bombarded if you belive that weap[ons are going to come that way.
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| Posted by: Ireland | | Heavens11 said this in post
I'm sorry innocent men, women and children are being killed and wounded.
No you're not.
Any Lebanese captured prior to the conflict was done because of the Lebanese transgression into Israel -- not Israel crossing the border, capturing Lebanese and bringing them back into Israel
Not true.
It's sad that you choose not to recognize innocent Israelis that are being killed by Hezbollah rockets being shot into Israel -- hundreds each day.
Again, not true.
Why are you lying? | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #23 :
Again, your knowledge of who has what is lacking. Keep to those things you have confidence in discussing -- not to what you assume them to have in their arsenal.
Well let's look at the facts for example the F -16 you were involved in desginig Israel has them, Israels main suppliers of weapons is the USA and Americas main buyers of weapons is Israel. Israel uses the same gun's, bombs, planes ( not including blackbird), nukes, torpedos etc etc etc in fact even this weekend America was flying bombs out to Israel.
As to what can be dropped off an F-16, what you tout is not an option. I spent 10 years designing avionics and weapon systems for the F-16 and F-111 -- among other aircraft -- and those weapons you mention are not among their weapon load (if they exist at all).
Check BLOCK 25 a quarter of the way down the page and check the change to the plane I belive it say percission attack capabilities F - 16
As for those cities and areas you previously mentioned, Israel would strike them if they were known Hezbollah encampments or supply routes.
But that's the point they don't know if they were supply routes they already said the main supply routes were through the ports in fact they have never give justification for those bombings.
Do I wish this conflict started? No. Do I wish the parties involved could seek a peaceful end to this conflict? Yes. The question is: Do you? Or is your only solution the utter destruction of Israel and the right to take & destroy whatever you desire? |
I don't want Israel detsroyed but unlike the US and Israel I don't want Lebanon destroyed. I am sorry but you use the same BS that most people use when somebody dares badmouth Israel that I must want them destroyed. What next will I be a Holocaust denier.
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #27 :
lodgebo, to make a blanket statement that Israel owns everything the US owns (sans the SR-71 Blackbird) is not correct. What about other aircraft like the F-117 and the F-22? What about the A-10?
The vast majority of weapons that Israel owns are American made/designed. You only have too look at the pictures on tv and the papers. those are American rifles, planes, tanks, transport carriers, cannons and these bombs that are being transported to Israel every week come from America. SO I will change my statement Israel has a majority of US designed stuff including nukes. It is common sense really Israel is America's biggest customer they will obviously have whatm ever America is willing to sell.
I'm aware that the F-16 has the capability to fire precision weapons. The planes the Israelis received under the Peace Marble program had that capability at the outset. What I'm disagreeing with is your assessment that the F-16 has the capability to fire weapons with directional explosives. Those weapons are not on its stores list.
Then pray tell what the hell it was doing firing them in the first Gulf war? you must have sen the videoes that are strapped to the bombs so that the air force can prove it was a direct hit. Also I am not talking abour directional bombs, precision bombs are a diffrent thing in that they lock on and hit the target whe they are dropped they wont just drop anywhere they are also 90% effective. You seem to be changing your story though, you were pretty adamnet that the f - 16 did not have these wepaon and now you are saying you knew they did but you were tallking about directional bombs which is funny because up unti now I have not mentioned directional bombs which FYI are more effective if fired from boats and subs.
I pose the same question to you that I posed to Ireland: can you prove to me that Israel is more at fault for these hostilities than Hezbollah. Again, I want substantiated proof -- not passionate beliefs. If you can prove that to me, I'll capitulate. |
Well sinece I never said any such thing I find it unusual you are asking me but I will stickk to what I have said and that is that Israel seesm to be going over the top and has no intention of talking peace.
Let me ask you a question though is the destruction of Lebanon and the killing of Lebanese civilians worth it even if Israel can't crush Hizbollah and take out all the rocket launch points?
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| Posted by: lodgebo | | Despite what you say I have been talking about percission weapons and you brought up directional weapons and they are two totally diffrebnt things, for a start I have not herad of directional bombs beig fire from planes normally subs, these bombs can weave through streets and hills etc wheras precission bombs will hit the target and cause little damage to the surronding area you need to get out your office and watch these things in action.
Again despoite the fact they don't exsist ( according to you) the F 16 is equiped with the ability to carry precission weapons that is what the website said, that is what the USAF and the RAF ( using Tornadoes) were prasisng in the Gulf war and were delighted with in the Balkans crisis due to the fact that the bombs did not suffer from the hange in terrain our weather.
What you are saying is that the RAF, Luftwaffe and French, Italian and Spanish Air forces right now use these bombs. The new Eurofighter will uses these bombs but the US the most advanced military on the globe does not it's especially unusual when I think that it was the US that created these bombs. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #19 :
Dude, don't you think I know that? But Hezbollah is firing their rockets from neighborhoods where innocent civilians live and work. I'm sorry, but that puts them in harm's way. Hezbollah is aware of that and believe that Israel won't shoot back because of it.
You tell me what Israel is supposed to do in that instance. |
We're on the same page H11. I get that Israel is in a no-win situation when it comes to firing back. It's either keep getting shelled or fire back and pray the civilian casualties are low. I tend to believe that they're just letting the rockets red glare smash anywhere and everywhere Hezzy might or might not be.
-HECK!
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| Posted by: lodgebo | |
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Heavens11 said this in post #31 :
lodgebo, once again you have ears but you don't listen. I'm well aware that the F-16 has the capability to carry precision weapons -- I've known it far longer than you have known it. And some F-16s have the capability to carry what you call "directional" weapons.
Hang on you say you are well aware of the precission weqapons capbilities of an F 16 and you have known for a long time yet recently you said you doubted such weapons exsisted. Thats rather confusing because what you are saying is that you knew precission weapons exsisted but you doubt they exsisted at the same time.
But no weapon in the arsenal of the F-16 is capable of exploding in one direction once the target is hit, and leaving everything else around it untouched as you imply.
Funny that because just less than an hour ago it showed you cockpit videoes of the attack on Ballbek. Three videos in all the first came from a trrop carrier and we saw the commandoes get out and do thier thing, the second showed a bomb being dropped on a van that they suspected was carrying reinforcments to the Ballbek area and the third showed and came from and F 16 that dropped a precission bomb the bomb detsroyed the building but the surronding area lokked fine obvioulsy it tokk a couple of seconds foe the dust to clear but the surronding buildings were just fine .
I'm really getting tired of this discussion and your lack of knowledge regarding the F-16 and its capabilities. Maybe you need to go back to school and learn more before you start touting yourself as an expert in warfare. |
See the diffrence between me and you in your "expertise" with the F 16 is that you sat on your ass in an office while other built the plane, the plane flew away and you thought nothing of it until now. I on the other hand have seen these things in action albiet from a safe distance but I have seen it. You are an "expert" on F 16 what about missiles the LGB's have you seen them work do you know how they work were you involved in the design of them to? are you a test pilot.
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