Success or failure?

Iraq Forum

So, has the situation in Iraq been 'Mission Accomplished' or 'Gone All Wrong.'

You tell me, and why.

-HECK!

As pessemistic as I generally am, I know from experience in my own life that a disposition can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. There for, I chose "Too soo to tell". Even though I don't see the situation improving, I'm keeping my mind open for the possibility.

The actual mission was never clearly stated - was it WMD, terrorism, links to Al Qaeda, human rights, war crimes, links to 9/11? etc, and as we saw, politicians could easily change the reason for this mission depending on what was convenient at the time.

Now is the US in Iraq to protect the oil, build up a permanent military presence, get out of the country, fight terrorism, bring democracy, set up a US friendly government, set up any kind of government, or is the new mission not to let Iraq cause too much damage to the mid-term elections?

If the Republicans do well in the mid-term elections then it would seem that the mission in Iraq can continue on its merry way for a considerable few years yet - accomplished, unaccomplished, good, bad or incompetently.

a much needed success turned out to be a total failure for all

The decision to attack Iraq was a political decision made by politicians. Unless the US and UK are some kind of dictatorship, the public have EVERY RIGHT to know why politicians order the military to attack and invade another country.

politics is beginning to rule war

The military does not run America. Politicians run America. In democracies war is decided by the people we vote into office, who are apparently there to serve the people.

The U.S. is "in it" because we have been tasked with being the global police force.

No-one "tasked" the US to do anything. The decision to attack Iraq and get a heavy military presence into the oil rich Gulf was one taken by a small band of ideologues who have clearly stated their views - to maintain the US position as sole superpower.

If the US is the global police force, damn, the must have forgotten to patrol Sudan, which currently has genocide.

If onyl Sudan had oil, the janjaweed would be the most hated people on Earth. Instead, we go after Saddam Hussein, who turned out to be a non-threat (as if we already didn't know).

The whole thing is a mess. on the plus points
Sadaam has been captured,

there is an elected government

and there has been some rebuilding ( only fair since we knocked down what we are now building).

On the negative side 2000+ US troops dead, 100 plus dead UK troops, unknown amount of troops wounded and an unknown amount of Iraqi civlians killed bu all estimates point to thousands.

There is a terrorist problem that shows no signs of ending also the terrorists are using our own weapons agiainst us.

We have had so many "turning points for Iraq and it's people" that have not been a turning point at all i.e fall of Sadamm, free votes, democratically elected government, copnstitution and the death of Zarqwari.

We are getting a larger anti west felling the longer we are in Iraq.

The country constantly seems to be on the brink of civil war.

The Iraqi army could not fight it's way out of a paper bag and the only good well trained soldiers have been refused admission with no explanation why from anybody.

Some public bodies seem corrupt.

The American troops seem to want to break international law and play the same way as the terrorists while still taking the moral high ground and trying to win hearts and minds.

The terrorists have better propaganda than us (unless we send Joe to Baghdad)

There is no sign of a change in startegy in Iraq.

So right now the Iraqi situation has been a failure, for every positive there are 5 or 6 negatives. We seem bogged down with no real way of getting out to give you an example at the start of this conflict the UK Ministry of Defence claimed that Uk regiments would do no more than 3 tours of Iraq well the Black Watch part of the RRS has come back from it's 7th tour, the Scots guards are back form tour no 6, the household cavalry are on tour no 4, 45 Command ( my old unit) were told to levae Afghanistan and head to Iraq for the 5th time. So obvioulsy the mission is going tits up if you get your numbers so badly wrong.

"Those who believe in nothing are very, very jealous and angry at those who believe in something."

—Dennis Prager

sad very sad

According to Patrick Cockburn, who writes for the British newspaper, The Independent, and who has been reporting from Iraq since 1978, says that Iraq is now a failed state. There were over 1,500 people killed in Baghdad alone in August due to sectarian conflicts. Now, if that doesn't add up to a civil war, I don't know what does.

Bush says that Iraq is at the forefront on the so-called war on terror. Well it wasn't before the US and Britain invaded it. This is the logic of the warped minded. Talk about creating a problem where there wasn't one.
According to a recent joint intelligence assessment in the US, it is now clear that the invasion of Iraq has helped to turn Iraq into a breeding ground for maniacs, and has also helped to destabilise that region.

Even Michael Schuher (misspelling maybe?), head of the Bin Laden unit at the CIA says that the invasion of Iraq has done more to help radicalise young muslims around the world than any other single foreign policy action in recent years. Iraq was a honeytrap for the US and British, and those siamese twits, Blair and Bush, staggered straight into that trap like two drunken musca domesticus (that's latin for house flies).

In a nutshell, the invasion of Iraq has been one of Britain's and the U.S.A.'s greatest strategic mistakes. And every death that occurs in that country through sectarian violence is a consequence of that vile and amateurish invasion/occupation.

Preston

Nice post Preston (am I supposed to welcome you back, or is the name just a coincidence?).

I'd say the fact that Iraq hasn't settled yet shows the mission is more than likely a failure. We've killed more citizens of Iraq than Hussein ever did so, despite the fact that the dude is a monster, are they really better off?

That being said, Hussein was found and captured, and we were told that was the mission... so... so I guess that's it? Eh? Eh?

Gaboman,

Cheers for welcoming me back.

Hussein was a monster, as you said, however, the 'mission' was never about getting rid of Hussein, but to find WMD. The 'getting rid of Hussein' mantra only manifested itself once the US and British governments realised that there were no WMD there.

As for civilian deaths caused by US and British bombs/gunfire/torture, well, nobody really knows how many indigenous Iraqis have died because, as you may recall, the US military stated that 'it doesn't do bodycounts' (I think it was somebody called Tommy Franks who said this). Only when it's their own. So, we really have no idea how many indigenous Iraqis have died because of the unspeakable invasion, it could be 10,000 or 100,000. Imagine if we applied this 'we don't do body counts' attitude towards the dead US military. There'd be uproar. I bet Bush knows the name of every single dead US soldier. But I bet he couldn't name one murdered Iraqi.

Notice how I never use the term 'Iraq War'. I avoid using this expression because, in my opinion, it was never a war – only an invasion against a near-defenceless country.

And now the US and British are trapped in Iraq like ants in hot wax. And all the while, the Taliban have re-grouped in Afghanistan. If the US and Brits had thrown 200,000 of their troops in Afghanistan, instead of Iraq, those Taliban twits would now be a thing of the past. However, the US government just couldn't resist getting its hands on those 200 state-owned oil companies that used to control Iraq oil. An invasion for the pursuit of oil, masqued by the illusion of democracy, freedom and liberation. The usual holy trinity of lies.

Preston Likely

There was a news story today that will please Bush but worry the US military command. There was a top AL Queda member who was arrested last year in Afghanistan now he managed to esacep his Afghan jail and went on the run for a few months until today when the British forces in Basra killed him. Now that is a worry because it proves that Al Queda people cna still get into Iraq unnoticed and that is partly why the mission is failing nbecauise we can't secure the border so anyone can get in or out as they please.

So what are your perosnla views that a well known and dangerous AL Queida member managed to esacape jail, leave Afghanaistan, go on the run for nealry a year, manage to get into Iraq and manage to hide out in Iraq where there are near 180,000 coalition troops.

If you get a reasonable response to that I'll eat my hat.

I think most of us would be horrified if we knew the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth on matters pertaining to Iraq. The incompetence, the lies, the deaths, the lack of planning, the torture, the despair of the indigenous Iraqis, and the failure of the US and British governments to admit gross errors. History will not be kind on Bush and Blair. They can smile all they like right now, however, they will be immortalised as amateur politicians, and reckless decision makers. Unfortunately, if the US and Britain don't cease their insatiable appetite for oil, there will be more invasions, lies and wars in a desperate attempt to get their hands on diminishing oil reserves. Oil has warped foreign policy, and the minds of those who make the decisions.

Preston.

"Those who believe in an illegal invasion of a near-defenceless country are very, very angry at those who believe in masquing illegal invasions with lies and illusions"

—Dennis Plagerism

'It's like Iraq is drowning and all the administration does is describe the water.'

Heck, That's a very clever way of summing up the truth of the matter.

Yesterday, Tony Blair made his valedictory speech at the annual Labour party conference in Manchester. During his rant, he said that the invasion of Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with the growth of jihadists and general muslim extremists world wide. However, at the same moment in time, a few thousand miles across the Atlantic, Bush was forced to release parts of a sensitive document to the press, a document that had been compiled by all 16 of the U.S.A's intelligence services. And, contrary to what Blair had furballed at the Labour conference, all 16 of the US intelligence services irrefragably agreed that the invasion of Iran by the US and Britain was the main reason why there has been a sudden rise in jihadist numbers and muslim extremism, and that the invasion had made the world a less safe place to live in.

In a nutshell, the invasion of Iraq has been an unmitigated disaster for the US and Britain in terms of foreign policy. And the longer US and British soldiers remain there, the longer the mayhem shall continue. The US and Britain are no longer part of the solution, but unquestionably part of the problem, contrary to what our respective leaders continue to tell us week in week out.

Preston

Considering the daily death tolls in Iraq, what are the US military doing there? According to recent pollls a majority of Iraqis want the US to go.

H@ts,

If the Iraqi government is anything like ours, Labour, then those Iraqi civilians who oppose the occupation of Iraq by US and British forces, will be ignored.

There's nothing the US regime can do about winning the hearts and minds of the indigenous Iraqis. I mean the so-called coalition have captured Hussein, put a puppet US government in there, killed Zarqarwi, co-ordinated elections etc, yet there's still chaos. Why? Because most people do not like their country to be occupied by uninvited foreign forces. But Bush and Blair will continue with the same dog-eared phrase of 'we'll stay the course', which is a euphemism for 'we'll stay until the oil runs out.'

Preston

Preston -

If the US continues to ignore Iraqi voices telling them to go then this will fuel two rumours that many believe, including many Iraqis:

1. That the US never had any intention of leaving Iraq, and the huge substantial bases built there are permenant, and there to protect the real prize in Iraq - the oil, and,

2. The US is covertly inciting the violence in Iraq to justify it's very reason for them being there.