Iraq & the failing support - it's not that it's wrong, it's that we're losing |
| Posted by: h@ts | | An interesting post on Scott Ritter's website, saying that Americans aren't giving up support for Bush and the Iraq war because they think it's wrong, but because America's is doing so badly there.
It sounds a touch unfair, seeing as many Americans have been against the war since it started, but I'm not up on public opinion in the US so I'd be interested in what anyone thought. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | | If the supporters are jumping ship because of the piss poor way it's being done, then that's even more CS that I could imagine.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: JY_French | | Last time I went to the US, a few months ago, the climate appeared to have dramatically changed since, let's say, 1 year ago, by the time Bush got reelected. People talking out loudly against the war in public places. Other people around agreeing with them or remaining thougthful.
There was a time when you could feel a widespread climate of fear and suspicion leading people to remain silent. Those days are over ? I can't tell, for I am not an insider. But the days of the Curley Joes and of their sacred chickenhawk Bush administration could very well be numbered. And that's all good for the sake of real democracy. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Crazie | | ROFL if I was a selfish guy just to prove that Bush is right I would say something along the lines of I hope Bush pulls all the soldiers out as quick as possible. Why you ask? Because than they will have their nut bags come hit American soil again, and I would have the pleasure of telling people in Europe and the socialist liberals here. "I told you so"....Still haven't quite figured out why Europeans don't mind their own government and feel the need to talk bout America's. I guess Americans just aren't as nosey. lol | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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Crazie said this in post #4 :
ROFL if I was a selfish guy just to prove that Bush is right I would say something along the lines of I hope Bush pulls all the soldiers out as quick as possible. Why you ask? Because than they will have their nut bags come hit American soil again, and I would have the pleasure of telling people in Europe and the socialist liberals here. "I told you so"..... lol |
If we pull out, and Iraq falls apart and we get hit with more terrorism, do you think the left is going to admit they were wrong?
OR-- Are they going to say, "Well of course there is more terrorism and Iraq is a mess. What do you expect after Bush starts an illegal war and riles up the whole Mideast?"
No, I'm afraid that this is a no-lose proposition for the left to demand we pull out of Iraq. There is no risk for the critics.
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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EUCLID said this in post #5 :
[B]
If we pull out, and Iraq falls apart and we get hit with more terrorism, do you think the left is going to admit they were wrong? |
The US did not attack Iraq because of 9/11, Bin Laden or terrorism. Iraq is falling apart regardless of the US being there. The question is would it be the same, worse or better if the US got out. What do you think?
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| OR-- Are they going to say, "Well of course there is more terrorism and Iraq is a mess. What do you expect after Bush starts an illegal war and riles up the whole Mideast?" |
An accurate summary.
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| No, I'm afraid that this is a no-lose proposition for the left to demand we pull out of Iraq. There is no risk for the critics. |
Some on the left and some on the right want the troops out. Some on th left/right want them to stay.
In Iraq some, mainly Sunni, say the America occupation is part of the problem, while many Shia fear a US withdrawal. What do you do?
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| Posted by: h@ts | |
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Crazie said this in post #4 :
ROFL if I was a selfish guy just to prove that Bush is right I would say something along the lines of I hope Bush pulls all the soldiers out as quick as possible. Why you ask? Because than they will have their nut bags come hit American soil again, and I would have the pleasure of telling people in Europe and the socialist liberals here. "I told you so"....Still haven't quite figured out why Europeans don't mind their own government and feel the need to talk bout America's. I guess Americans just aren't as nosey. lol |
You seriously think the US has not been hit by another terrorist attack because you started a war in Iraq, thus stirring up hatred, mistrust, fear, and loathing all round the world? It is a theory but maybe you could expand on it and explain why the Iraq war prevents terrorist attacks on US soil?
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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h@ts said this in post #6 :
The question is would it be the same, worse or better if the US got out. What do you think?
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If the U.S. pulled out, it would leave an enormous power vacuum and Iraq would get ripped to shreds by all the factions competing for power. Iraq might very well become an expansion of Iran. There are those who say that everything would be hunky-dory if we pulled out because it is our presence that is creating the resistance. I think they are wrong. The resistance is competing with the U.S. and the new government for the prize that is Iraq, now that Saddam is out of power.
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| Posted by: Inner City Blues | |
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EUCLID said this in post #8 :
If the U.S. pulled out, it would leave an enormous power vacuum and Iraq would get ripped to shreds by all the factions competing for power. Iraq might very well become an expansion of Iran. There are those who say that everything would be hunky-dory if we pulled out because it is our presence that is creating the resistance. I think they are wrong. The resistance is competing with the U.S. and the new government for the prize that is Iraq, now that Saddam is out of power. |
What you have described is exactly what Iraq is now. They toppled Saddam Hussein, created a power vacuum, which now has different ethnic groups vying for power. You also have a government in place now that is influenced by Iran. So what's the difference if the US is there or not?
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| Posted by: EUCLID | |
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Inner City Blues said this in post #9 :
What you have described is exactly what Iraq is now. They toppled Saddam Hussein, created a power vacuum, which now has different ethnic groups vying for power. You also have a government in place now that is influenced by Iran. So what's the difference if the US is there or not? |
Yes that is the condition now. We toppled Saddam and it created a power vacuum. We are temporarily occupying that vacuum until a new Iraqi government can take over and fill it. We have underestimated the size of the vacuum and the determination of those who compete to fill it. If the price of occupying the vacuum is judged to be growing too high, we will give up the effort and pull out. If we do that, the vacuum will instantly become much larger, and will immediately draw in those who would fill it. The least likely entity to fill it will be the democratic government that we prefer. There is likely to be considerable fighting between the factions before the vacuum is filled by the strongest one, although there is a possibility that little such fighting will occur.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | I believe that this is exactly what the administration intended on doing. I think the only way this has gone south in their eyes is the US troop casuality rate. I think the timeframe is spot on though.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: h@ts | | Regardless of the appalling mess in Iraq, plenty of companies see Iraq as a modern day gold-rush, whether intentional or not only those who've done deals in darkened rooms will know.
What Bush will not be forgiven for, by his "friends" and political associates is the benefit the Iraq war has been for Iran, and the how incompetent this whole war has made America look. I've no idea what's going on in the US at the moment in regards to how Bush is being portrayed but whatever it is now it is going to get much worse for him before he finishes in office - if he's even allowed to do so. | | Reply To this Message
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Iraq Forum: Iraq & the failing support - it's not that it's wrong, it's that we're losing
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