should we give amnesty to the illegal aliens already in the U.S.?

Immigration and our Borders Forum

Should we give amnesty to the illegal aliens already in the U.S.?

Are we talking exempt from punishment or being allowed to stay in the U.S.? Because as of now, illegal aliens are punished, they are simply deported.

The current legislation being proposed would make it a felony to come into the country illegaly.

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amnesty as in they are not punished for being her illegally. Usually with amnesty goes the offer of citizenship.

I voted no. They broke the law and do not deserve to be rewarded for that.

To be honest I really haven't heard any case of amnesty with citizenship, but I wouldn't agree with that either. I don't see any country doing that.

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Reagan did it during his term.

Really? Damn Ronnie. What group of people was it for?

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I voted yes, give them amnesty, grandfather them in, then build a wall across the border, and stop all illegal immigration.


Not to keep out Mexicans per say, but to stop a terrorist from coming in from Mexico.


If I was JOE TERRORIST, I'd cruise into Mexico, then hike across into texas with my suitcase nuke, then make my way to Average American city. I really don't see why we have to wait for this to happen to close the border, why can't we build the wall now, just make it happen, then have it over and done with?

I voted no. If they came here illegally, they should not be given the same treatment that is given to those people who work to come here legally.

For clarification, amnest is different than asylum. That's what Cuban baseball players get

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I don theenk so, seenior.

This aberration was flying at a high school in Montebello, Calfornia, United States of America:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/upsidedown.jpg

I'd be the first one to rip that crap down and hoist up ol' Stars & Stripes at the top where she belongs

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No, it wasn't. The person would just be documented and deported.

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It's rare, I know

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http://images.lauraingraham.com/images/slideshow/flag.jpg

If they want to wave that flag so proudly I suggest taking the I-15 south. Stop when you see the kids selling gum.

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I voted "no". Reagan granted amnesty and the rate of illegal immigration spiked. It's like saying that you can enter legally...or not. This is a complicated issue that must be addressed economically. Removing the motivation to cross the border is where the answer lies. Clinton's NAFTA was an absolute disaster; that's undeniable. Building a wall/fence is a philistine concept that is never going to work. They tried that, for different reasons, in China and Germany. In both cases, the effort and expense could have been better spent.
Slobs that shamelessly hire illegals for dirt wages need to be dealt with. They are the heart of the problem.

Imagine this: Mexico is outrageously rich...America is pathetically poor...Americans who are too poor or under educated to jump through the legal hoops that Mexico requires are illegally flowing over the border into Mexico for a chance at a dignified life...
How would you want them treated? The answer to this is the answer.

Has anyone else noticed that the picture looks like it may have been doctored?

Yeah! You're right! The Photoshop layering of the Mexican flag on the right side of the image is about as obvious as sunrise.

I don't know, the pic is from this website. She has a lot of pics on there, and they all seem about the same. I think the flag is transparent some on that side of it, and you can see the arm and face behind it.


I could be wrong though.


http://images.lauraingraham.com/


http://images.lauraingraham.com/

the bottom half of the dude on the right is missing though, so unless he is missing his legs and torso, it must be photoshop.

Yeah plus the arms of the dudes on the right are transparent and a bit of the lady in white her face is a little bit transparent.
Aside form the fact it is photoshopped this picture could have been taken in Mexico, the US or anywhere for that matter.
It's just a poorly designed bit of propaganda.

http://tammybruce.com/archives/nakedmexicans.jpg

Another lovely moment in Los Angeles brought to you by hard working, oppressed, law-abiding, living-in-the-shadows, decent people who love America. Yeah.

(Or is it Photoshop?)

Hawk- similar displays are on covers of newspapers across So Cal. Horrible. I just don't get what point they are trying to make. Not only that, it sets a bad example for immigrants from other countries.

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There's no rest for the reconquistadors. They marched this weekend in Costa Mesa.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/costamesa.jpg

There is a lot of resistance to this by the American people, but both political parties are pushing it, each for their own reason. I don’t know where it currently stands in Congress, but I believe there will shortly be a vote to pass a bill for what looks like amnesty, but won’t be called amnesty.

It will pass just before the American people catch up with it.

There will be a HUGE BACKLASH.

About 10 years ago, California tried to pass Proposition 187 which would stop free services for children of undocumented immigrants in public schools and other government supported services. It was passed with a sweeping victory. Minority groups sued and it was overturned. This bill doesn't have a chance in hell.

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Passing and/or becoming law without being overturned.

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The proponents of illegal immigration amnesty are quick to undermine their opponents by falsely charging them with racism. Yet the proponents say that illegal immigrants do the jobs that Americans won’t do. Since when is the willingness to do jobs a matter of nationality? How racist is that?

I'm not for amnesty, but many of the anti-illegal immigration people are racists, there's no doubt about it. Do I need to start posting some quotes from people's favorite radio personalities?

Whether intentional or not, I don't think we can deny the racial aspect of this, especially in the ways of flag waving...

http://starbulletin.com/2002/03/18/news/arth.jpg

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/gif/events/columbus_day/5_columbus_day.jpg

http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/content/articles/2005/10/05/villages/villages01.jpg

I'm sure there were no complaints about flag waving at any of these events.

Perhaps the claims of racism arise because every single time immigration is an issue, xenophobia and racism are the big motivating factors, it is like clockwork. Unfortunately, many times in America, we are doomed to repeat history.

You can compare immigrants to murderers and thieves...yeah that's not trying to spread hate.

To hide your own racist attitudes, just call Hispanics racists, it worked against Blacks back in the 1960's and 1970's"

quote:

From the March 30 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor: MALKIN: It was the far left, the open-borders activists, who were the ones who are the extremists, who were the ones advocating militant ethnic separatism. This is our stolen land. Chicano power. You had folks with Aztlan T-shirts mugging for the cameras in front of city hall. These are people who believe that the American southwest belongs to Mexico, that we don't have a right to enforce our borders, and who do nothing more than try to sabotage our sovereignty. [...] O'REILLY: We are going to be as fair as humanly possible here on this whole issue. But what did the Mexican flag say to you, Michelle? MALKIN: Well, first of all, do not buy Dr. Hinojosa's spin. He sounds very reasonable. He sounds very benign, but the kind of quote-unquote "pride" that a lot of these illegal alien activists are touting now goes much further than just being proud about one's heritage and one's roots. The idea, the intellectual underpinnings of reconquista are embraced by the vast majority of mainstream Hispanic politicians, as well as the international --

Further talk of the "invasion." Why do you think people refer to it as an invasion?

quote:

From the March 30 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, which also featured conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt: GOODMAN: Chris, I think we have to have a comprehensive, humane immigration policy. But I think right now, what the Republicans who passed the House bill, for example, are afraid of -- they're afraid of the fact that in a couple dozen years, we're going to see a majority Latino population in Arizona -- HEWITT: That's nonsense. GOODMAN: -- in Texas, in Florida, in New Mexico. HEWITT: They're afraid of a dirty bomb. MATTHEWS: But why shouldn't they -- why shouldn't they fear that? GOODMAN: And that's why the Republicans are so desperate they want to build a fence. MATTHEWS: Wait a minute, why shouldn't they fear that? They have a right to fear that. Cultural change is not something any society accepts easily, or even with any kind of positive feelings about it. Why would anybody accept a cultural change in their own state? [crosstalk] MATTHEWS: I want Amy to answer this question. Why is it wrong of anybody to say I don't want the town I grew up in to become overwhelmingly Mexican? Why is that wrong? You may not share that view, but why is that wrong? GOODMAN: I guess I think about the United States as a country of immigrants, of people -- MATTHEWS: Of course! GOODMAN: -- who have come here for refuge all over the world, and there is no reason to stop that tradition now. It only enhances what this country could represent. I am not saying that anyone at any time should be able to come over the border. I'm saying we have to have a comprehensive discussion about this that is not led by punitive measures that criminalize human beings. MATTHEWS: Do you live in a Mexican neighborhood? GOODMAN: I live in an integrated neighborhood of many different people. MATTHEWS: No, I'm asking a particular question. Now, let me ask you this question, because a lot people in small towns in California grew up in a town, all of a sudden it's going from 20 percent Hispanic and nobody complained -- it probably went to 30 percent, but when it becomes 70 and 80 percent or over 50, they say, "Wait a minute, I didn't move to Mexico; Mexico moved to me, and I'm complaining about it." Now, that's their point of view. It's not my point view necessarily, but that's a point of view that apparently is reflective of about 90 percent of this country, and certainly 90 percent of the Republican Party.

I think Michael Savage speaks for himself...

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From the March 27 broadcast of Talk Radio Network's Savage Nation: SAVAGE: Unless we say "No" to illegal aliens waving the Mexican flag in the street, by burning the Mexican flag in the street across America. That's right, burn the Mexican flag on your street corner, show what you care about, show that you won't take it anymore, show that you're sick of everybody pushing us around like we are a pitiful, helpless giant of a nation that is out of control because we have nothing but corruption and rot at the highest level. Do that, burn a Mexican flag for America, burn a Mexican flag for those who died that you should have a nationality and a sovereignty, go out in the street and show you're a man, burn 10 Mexican flags if I could recommend it. Put one in the window upside down and tell them to go back where they came from, and if that's a little to xenophobic for you, ask yourself why the xenophobes from Mexico wave their flag in your country. Ask yourself why the racist xenophobes of La Raza will not speak English in this country; you'll find out what racism and xenophobia is, my friend. [...] SAVAGE: If you study the history of human evolution, and I realize this is quite a jump, you will see that throughout history there were various species that arrived on planet Earth prior to homo sapiens, current man, modern man. And as one group came along, it displaced the previous group. We, the people, are being displaced by the people of Mexico. This is an invasion by any other name. Everybody with a brain understands that. Everybody who understands reality understands we are being pushed out of our own country. [...] SAVAGE: Twenty-nine percent of all inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens. No, Mr. Bush, they do not all come here to work, they do not all come here to work. They come here to work the system, sell drugs, rape, and kill on contract. Don't lie to us. [...] SAVAGE: If I were more than one man -- but I'm not I'm only a radio host -- I would organize a march this week were we would burn Mexican flags in the street. Then I would like to see how our hard-working brethren would react, our friends from the south. Let us see how they would react.

When Neal Boortz isn't calling Cynthia McKinney a ghetto slut (oh that doesn't have racism written all over it ), he's talking about rounding up Hispanics and putting them in the Superdome. Now tell me, why would you want to do something that was considered a horror to so many?

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From the March 27 edition of Cox Radio Syndication's The Neal Boortz Show: BOORTZ: The 11 or 12 million illegals in this country are not going anywhere. They are staying right here. You tell me if you disagree with this, Royal. You can change their continued presence here from a misdemeanor to a felony if you want to, but they are going to stay. If you think the United States -- er, excuse me, the United Nations Human Rights Commission -- screamed when we force-fed Gitmo prisoners who were trying to kill themselves through starvation, calling that torture, then you just stand back and you listen to the howling, the howling that would follow as surely as night follows day or as Bill Clinton follows flat bellies, the howling that'll erupt with Category 5 force when we try to send these criminals back across the Mexican-American border. The United Nations and the Euro-weenies, who have their own immigration problem with their own "M" word; It's Muslims for them. They will start screaming about human rights violations like you've never heard them screaming before. They are not going to be shipped back. I mean, Royal, think about -- Mexico doesn't want 'em back, first of all. Think what happens if we round -- first of all, where do we store 11 million Hispanics just waiting to ship 'em back to Nicaragua, Colombia, Costa Rica, Mexico. Where do we store 'em? ROYAL MARSHALL (show engineer and occasional co-host): That's a good point. BOORTZ: You know, the Atlanta Coliseum? I know -- MARSHALL: Superdome! BOORTZ: The Superdome! Exactly. And the Astrodome in Houston. That's where we'll put 'em. We've got practice. Got practice. But where are we -- and then, what happens if Mexico says, "We ain't taking 'em back"?

And don't forget Michelle Malkin pushing the agenda to paint Hispanics as these dangerous "Latino supremacists" that have infilitrated our state and local governments.

quote:

From Malkin's March 29 column: Apologists are quick to argue that Latino supremacists are just a small fringe faction of the pro-illegal immigration movement (never mind that their ranks include former and current Hispanic politicians from L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa to former California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Cruz Bustamante).

All Mexican immigrants are criminals that are unwilling to work.

quote:

From the March 27 edition of The Rush Limbaugh Show: LIMBAUGH: One of the puzzling things about this to me, since President Bush has been in office, is his -- you know, he had a very close relationship with [Mexican President] Vicente Fox, and I don't -- CALLER: Right. LIMBAUGH: I don't -- I -- I think the opposite of what you suggest is actually what's been happening. But look at it from Vicente Fox's point of view. I mean if -- if you had a -- a -- a renegade, potential criminal element that was poor and unwilling to work, and you had a chance to get rid of 500,000 every year, would you do it?

EUCLID, often times you use ignorance as point to argue you from, I'm sorry, but it doesn't work. Even if you just use history as a guide, there is a large element of the anti-immigration movement that spew hatred and fear. It's undeniable, unless of course you think these people have a point, or you believe in the disingenuous attitude that, "Well unless they say, 'I hate Mexicans,' I don't believe there is any racism." It is that same attitude that refuses to acknowledge that racism is still direct towards African Americans (because Lord knows studies showing job and housing discrimination are not enough). Granted, there are people that see a real problem and want to find a real solution, but there are many voices out there, namely the popular radio and TV personalities, that come out to instill fear and hatred into their audience.

All these arguments were said in the same way 30-40 years ago, so yes, it's racism. And when you're creating hyperbole about certain ethnic groups, it's racism. Do you think racism requires a person to say, "I hate <insert group here>."?

Most Americans oppose amnesty, so in order to sell a so called "guest worker" program to the American people, it is important to assert that it is not amnesty. McCain is all over TV telling us that the McCain-Kennedy bill in not an amnesty bill.

Yet the first thing it does is waive the illegal entry violation of all illegal aliens. Then it goes on to a whole series of hoops that the illegals must jump through such as paying a $2000 fine, learning English, registering for work, paying taxes, etc. If I'm not mistaken, it also requires the immigrant to return to Mexico after a period of time and reapply for legal immigration. So with all of these conditions, the sponsors of the bill contend that it is not amnesty.

Opponents say this is nonsense. You might not call it amnesty, but the likely affect will amount to amnesty. These same guest worker advocates completely fail to do something simple like enforce the existing border laws, and we are to believe they will enforce this complicated set of special conditions attached to their bill?

The country has sent a signal by not enforcing the border. It's a signal that we are soft on illegal immigration. This amnesty bill that will not be called amnesty will signal that we are getting even softer. If somebody tells you it's not an amnesty bill, tell them you don't care what they call it.

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with racism. It has nothing to do with legal immigration. (I'm a legal immigrant who passed the test and took the oath, and who's damn proud to be an American.) ILLEGAL immigration has to do with ILLEGAL invaders. The issue is all about the survival of America as we know and love it. Talk about having to state the obvious… But I s'pose there'll always be those eager to play the proverbial race card crappola, wherever and whenever.

And why they fly the Mexican flag while wanting American rights as an illegal immigrant is beyond me.

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Is there the same outcry when Irish immigrants fly the Irish flag?

The point I was making is that all these Irish people in the US ( mainly the east coast) are releated from illegal immigrants and now the Irish community is an important part of the US.

Also you ask how would I feel, look buddy don't act like the US is the only country that has a problem with illegal immigrants, the real situation you describe well thats the real situation for the majority of western countries.

[QUOTE]EUCLID said this in post #58 :


Name some of the other countries that have a problem with illegal immigration.

Well it is difficult to get exact estimates as you know but last month 2620 people who were turned down for asylum vanished off the radar and are now living in illegally in the UK, now if that 2620 is the average every month then a country like the UK cannot keep doing that, at the moment the Home office thinks there are between 578,000 - 950,000 living illegally in the UK.

Germany has between 7 and 9 million illegals,

France has around 4 - 5 million with figure rising between 100- 150,000 each year,

Spain and Portugal have around 4 million between them with the number rising by 80,000 each year,

Italy has around 1 million illegals with an estimate of 700,000 a year.

Holland estimates 300,000 illegals a year.

[B]Maybe you can say the illegal immigration problem of the U.S. is identical to many other countries if you don't count numbers; if, for example, you say that one illegal immigrant is the same problem as a million of them.

Well firstly I never said the problem were identical if you bothered to read what I had said I said that the US has real problem in terms of illegals but the problem is no less real in other countries. Now anyone that believes that the US is the only country with illegal immigration then that person would incredibly naive to the problems facing the rest of the world. The last UK election was fought on illegal immigration, along with the economy the last German election was fought on illegal immigration it's a non stop issue in France ( riots caused by illegals) and Denmark. You cannot howevere just say that America has more immigrants so therefore the problem is worse because thats an extremly basic arguement it goes a lot deeper for example country size, border controls, election times and social welfare all play a part. America is a bigger country so it can handle more illegals than say the UK agian Mexico is a big country so will send more illegals, also somebody tryiong to get to say Germany or the UK from the ME will have to deal with 30+ border patrols so the number gets siftef down the further you get.

So if a legale Mexican ( or Greek) immigrant flies his countries flag thats OK?

I have no problem with people being proud of their heritage and displaying their homeland flag and that may be all it is. I see foreign flags all over the place and not just Mexican flags.

These protest would have been a perfect time to round up the illegals but, we would have to put them all up in the super dome.
Making the ones who are here legal will weed out the malcontents if we make them register. After that we better send those weeds back to Mexico.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

The media covers these demonstrations saying that the demonstrators are sending a message to Congress to act in their behalf. The demonstrations are also sending a message to the American people, and its an "in your face message."

The American people are then sending their own message to Congress. That's why their little immigration bill fell apart Friday. These ham handed demonstrations could not be more galling to the legal citizens. The underlying ethic of all immigration has always been humility. This feels more like a hostile takeover.

What is happening is that they keep saying "immigrants" and not ILLEGAL immigrants which, is the real issue.

The Bill should be called the "Illegal Immigration Bill".

If I can go Off Topic for a second- I just want to say way to go on fitting the work 'lo' into a sentence. No matter how hard I try it just doesn't come together.

Anyway.

Protestors are coming out of every corner and making their case. My question is, if all these illegal immigrants are out in the street, why aren't they being picked up?

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What percentage of people overstay their visas?

I heard this morning on the news that Mexico has a 6 year jail sentence for illegal immigrants.
We should follow their lead.

I was watching one of the US news channels ( think it was fox) and some expert on the issue was saying that the problem the US has waht the immigration issue varies state by state for example he said that if all illegals were forced to leave California then there would be major gaps in the job markets and the jobs that would be open would be jobs that Americans don't want to do because of pay issues. Then he said shoot down to southere states like Texas and the problem is that there are too many illegals in this state and frankly the area cannot possibly sustain them all.

This got me wondering do you think there should be some kind of national law on illegals but that certain states can opt out of certain parts of the law and other states can add things onto the law with the permission of the Senate or house of representatives ( don't know which has the most power) or do you think you should have an one size fits all law for the whols of the US.

I just don't understand the controversy. What part of ILLEGAL do people pretend to not understand?

If we pass a law that accepts these Mexican illegals as legal, then we have to treat every other country the same and there are a million non-Mexican ILLEGAL immigrants here now from every corner of the planet.

America is such a bad place, why do they come here? To change it?
Because we are lax on crime and they can get away with murder?
Because you can live here for free on the legal taxpayers dollar?
Because you can get a drivers license and free medical?

I'm sure I missed a few.

I SAY NO WAY SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN AMNESTY!!!!

That is what most of the U.S. says.

Putting 11 million illegal aliens into jail where they can no longer work for our economy for six years is absurd. Who is going to pay the 2.6 trillion dollars it would cost to jail 11 million illegal aliens for six years? Then there is the 36 billion it would cost to support their citizen children in foster care while they are in prison. Once they are out of jail after 6 years, then we have the 11 million still illegal aliens here in the country so what do we do with them then?
Enforcing the laws costs money that the American people are unwilling to give to their government. It is money that American people want to get back from the government in tax cuts. I hear a lot of mouthing off about jails and sending illegals to Mexico. I don't hear much about what we are going to do with their citizen children once the parents are gone. I don't hear much about how much more it costs to jail someone than it costs to pay them a minimum wage. Taking 11 million people out of an active economy and supporting them in jail, taking enough dollars out of the economy to support them, what are you people thinking?

Hazel Dragoneye, what part of your freedoms are you giving up to illegals?
Desert Hawk, I will tell you what part of illegal I do not understand. I do not understand the part about how you prove someone is illegal. Only politicians use illegal aliens instead of undocumented aliens when describing individual status. That is because people who have no ID cannot prove who they are and what country they were born in. Without documents there is no proof that I am here legally or illegally. Even if I were born in this country, if I appear to be from another country and do not have the proper documents I can legally be turned down from working because I am undocumented. I may illegally arrested if I do not have documents proving my nationality. I do not have to be illegal to be treated illegally.

I never thought I'd agree with that skinny right wing hag whose name I forget but she says we should put the "Mexican invaders" to work building a wall with them ending up on the Mexican side. A female Texas famer said in an interview with Mike Wallace five years ago that eventually we'll have to shoot them (While she talked Mexicans in the background were picking her watermelons and carrying them across the shallow Rio Grande. What do you do when someone doesn't come to your door but instead climbs through the window? Another failure by the current administration. All Americans should support the Minuteman organization.

The minutemen have no more right trespassing over someone elses property than anyone else does. They are acting just like illegal aliens, trespassing, breaking laws, working for less than minimum wage. Because they are white they are heroes. The brown ones are the villains. Sure there is no racism around this subject.