French Busy At Work... Protesting

Post-9/11 Era Forum

France is crumbling economically by every leading indicator. So the French government is actually pushing for labor reforms that may make their country more competitive. These "draconian" proposals would end the decades-old socialist labor policies that have kept unemployment high and productivity low in France compared to the U.S. and even other European countries. Read the latest about the crybaby students. (If only they worked as hard in their actual jobs as they do at these rallies!)

http://interestalert.com/story/site...er=World%20News

The law would let companies fire employees under 26 without reason in the first two years on the job.

In most states, it's a 90 day probationary period.

Would you want your kids to devote a year and a half to a job and get dumped without cause? I expect no answer.

If Dubya tried to pull something like that, I'd be protesting too.

-HECK!

If only they worked as hard in their actual jobs as they do at these rallies they might have a chance at holding onto their jobs. But frankly, I couldn't care any less about France's labor woes. They're entitled to 'em. I just enjoy watching socialist crybabies get 'hosed' down.'

From what I've read, it's more to get younger people in the workforce. Now I don't really give a squirt about French labor disputes, but in the interest of fostering dicussion, I think that some corporations might use this as a way to terminate honest, hard working kids to avoid giving them any kind of benefits or retirement plans.

-HECK!

http://www.foxnews.com/images/197708/17_2_032806_watercanoon.jpg

No pain, no gain.

No comment, no response.

-HECK!

Why don't you answer the question and stop being an immature brat?

Ahhh, to be young, socialist, and, by definition, to want everything handed to you.

The violence in these protests shows me something, I wouldn't want any of those kids working for me nor would I want my child to resort to such a protest.

Nobody can be assured that they won't get terminated. Unless of coarse you are a Union member, and they you have their backing and a certain guarrantee of protection even if you are lazy or incompetent.

Do a good job and hope for the best right? Show that you are dedicated empolyee, do your job and you may just keep it.

Saying do your job well and you will keep it is a very simplistic view IMO. Sometimes bosses will just not like a perosn no matter how good he or she is at thier job and this law allows the boss to fire them. Also thier could be a girl that start a job then a few weeks later falls pregnant the boss can by pass maternity law and fire her or you could have a person off sick for a few weeks and knowing that you might not get a temporray worker you employ somebody and fire them when the orignal person come back. Now none of that is fair.

As for the people that were rioitng the Paris police said that it was not the young people causing trouble but people from the poorer areas that cuased trouble afew months back coming in for a second round with the police it appears that they infiltrated the protest. In area lie Mariselle, Rouen, Lyon amnd some where else the protests went ahead with no problems.

Any person can be fired—anytime, anywhere. Period. (Unless you're a teacher, maybe.) Call it a layoff, if you will.

If there is downsizing, layoff, sure. But what I am simply saying is on the face of it, a business cannot arbitrarily fire someone for no reason. The reason may not be much, but there still has to be one.

-HECK!

I'll be the first one to concede that with government legislation it is never black and white. That was just the main point I read, and on the face of it I could see an uproar but not necessarily such a violent reaction.

Maybe they had too much whine for breakfast

-HECK!

I've never been there and only know a few people that have actually lived there for an extended period of time. I don't think anyone can truly grasp an opposing mentality, so it's best not to waste too much time on it. Seeing where another is coming from is possible, however.

-HECK!

I was in Frnace in 98 for the world cup and it was ace so where the people.

Anyway back to the subject at hand, from what I understand about it you can pretty much just tell somebody that they are gone you don't have to give a reason or notice just tell them they are gone.

As for people being fired anytime anywhere, well I don't know about in the States but in the UK unless you are found guilty of gross misconduct you will normally work your notice. Also a reason MUST be given for you being fired and you are not getting that in France.

The funny thing is that as we know Frnace is the biggest supporter of the EU but later on this year the EU will pass a law which all EU countries must adhere to, basically this law states that when it come to working rights compnaies must not be ageist. Now that law will surely put the French government and the French compnaies between a rock and a hard place and will give the opponents of this law a little leverage.

I'm just glad to see some white people hit the street. Couple months ago the Aussies were raising some hell. I think this illegal immigration problem just might get some regular Americans pissed off enough to do something rash. Thirty years ago or so they were shooting CEO's in the kneecaps on the streets of Paris. You don't have to do a hell of a lot of that to change the perspective of the bottom line.

Everytime I think of the statue of Liberty, I recall that it was a gift to America... from the people of France

I have a question Curley, do you dislike people for being born French? You seem to enjoy posting articles when there's a problem in France, don't you think it's a little ignorant to paint people with such a broad brush?

The Writer - I really appreciate your comments. You are fully aware of the stakes. Our societies (I make no difference between the US and other western countries) are threatened by mortal dangers: globalized unemployment, poverty, precarity, because corporations are massively downsizing and relocating their activities day after day. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the realities of today's global economics can fathom those dangers.
I am just astonished when I read comments of people like "Desert Hawk" (formerly known on this board as Curley Joe) bragging about the all-mightiness of the military, the immanent supremacy of the justification to spread wars abroad, bashing all those anti-american liberals who would be only whining about their condition, just out of envy, self-loathing, resentment towards America. Simply pathetic. It is about time to wake up and consider the stakes of our time with the appropriate stepping back and broadened view.

On the other hand, the unions here in the US prevent companies from firing idiots.

Really the unions here protect workers from being fired for no good reason.
If what you describe is what's happeing in the States it does the beg question about why idiots are getting employed at all maybe the idiots that hired the idiots shoule be booted as well.

I heard somethin on the news about Chirac being forced to make changes to the bill. I think the timnescale has been lowered and the employer must give a reason for them being fired. No response form the unions as of yet.

Jack of France made a televised statement about the jobs law which has sparked all the protests by spoiled brats who want "job guarantees." In the US, of course, a job guarantee is you doing a good job and earning it. That's a foreign concept in socialist countries.

PARIS -President Jacques Chirac said Friday he would press ahead with a contentious labor law making it easier to fire workers, but he offered some concessions in hopes of calming furious protests that led to nationwide strikes.

Chirac said he would reduce a trial period during which employees could be summarily dismissed from two years to one, and he would require employers to offer reasons.

This means the babies will still have to show up for a year and actually work. I have a feeling they'll still be throwing a tantrum or two.

Desert Hawk you would have had a lovely time in Pinochet's Chile. You are perfectly minded for that.
Your opinions about work, labor rights, politics in general, are indeed "foreign concepts" in civilized and democratic countries.

I just read they are protesting again and it's getting bigger.

And serious Hawk, why quote yourself?

-HECK!

If you want to qualify your statement with another one of your statements, go'fer it.

Just read another report that said something like a million people are protesting...?

-HECK!

They're ripping down signs and structures, destroying property and throwing objects at people. And this may be only the beginning. If you wanna call it "protesting,"go'fer it. In America we call it violence. Bring on the water cannons and the big police batons.

This French protesting is to legitimate protesting like FOSTERS is to 'beah.'

Yeah, in America we also call it the Lakers winning the NBA Championship

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/video/sports/2000/06/21/fan_violence.jpg

http://www.theguycode.com/stories/1.16/pics/riot.jpg

-HECK!

Irrelevant and lame comparison. By the way, that's not a protest. That's a 'celebration,' albeit a stupid one. It too is practiced by spoiled brats.

Obviously the Lakers photos are a celebration. The comparison is sound. I was simply illustrating the fact that people, Americans or French, can get violent in large groups... and sometimes they don't even need anything to protest.

You're talking about French people "...ripping down signs and structures, destroying property and throwing objects..." like it doesn't happen here. So what if you don't see it as 'legitimate', at least they have a reason.

-HECK!

92 deads in bloody riots in LA 14 years ago, if I recall it well, but of course ... "only in France", uh ? I am yet to see people being killed in such large numbers in France because of riots - nobody till today.
The day people are mass protesting / rioting again in the US out of anger and resent against this current government of thugs and crooks supported by extremists like you ... damaging properties .... burning your car or worse .... it will be time to blame liberals, leftists, or even the French if you want. Simply you still won't be able to understand why this happens when it does.

Oh and again ... Curley Joe, aren't you part of those usually blaming the media all day long for their so-called "biased" coverage of the events in Iraq ? Because they would be showing only unpleasant things ? Yeah, of course, but when this bias aired by international media repeatedly shows a few cars burning in France, then that's information of course. Just like for the unrest a few months ago.
Yes, there are people damaging properties but that's a minority of those demonstrating. As Heck points out, it's a universal wrong side of human nature to have such individuals in a given population.

Keep enjoying Fox News in fantasyland.

I just can't grasp Hawk's perspective. I appreciate his participation in this discussion but am drawn to speculation about his work experience... if he was ever a young husband and father wanting to provide for his family. How is it you can come to manhood and not understand what being able to be fired for any reason or none at all does to individual dignity.

Do you think the bosses will resist the power to lord over the workers? I don't just mean tell them what to do because that's what bosses are for... I mean expect coutesies, subservience, maybe a little gift here and there.. those who don't show the "proper respect" will be quickly made an example of. But for those who've never labored in the factories they can't grasp the concept of employee dignity... of what the French are demanding.

American workers are facing "give back" contracts every year. Wages and benefits being cut. Federal judges are allowing companies to deny retirement benefits to workers, health care is becoming a luxury for workers, It's only a matter of time before workers here will be forced take to the streets as are the French. Unions will rise from the street mobs and workers will find leaders.... desperation will force violence. If there are "spoiled babies" involved in this dispute... it is not the workers.

Just for information - firing someone without justification is forbidden according to international work rules and european laws dealing with this topic.

The Writer: what is astonishing in the US, for an European, is to witness old people - more than 70 - carrying heaving luggages and driving shuttles from airports to hotels, or shift working in airports' car rental offices. Lots, lots of old people are still working. I for one could not stand seeing my parents being in the obligation to do that.
For me that would mean that all what they and I have contributed to build in this country have failed.
I wish American people would hit the streets and protest against the bunch of thugs who control the government and big corporations in the US.

An employer in France could not fire somebody—EVER—even if that employer's business went under! What employer in his right mind would want to hire anybody under those sick circumstances?! That's directly symptomatic of why France's state of economic affairs is down the toilet. It has among the highest, if not the highest, unemployment rates and lowest economic growth rates in all of Europe. A country surrendering to this economically self-mutilating socialit epidemic deserves to reap what it sows: FUBAR!

As an American, Hawk does not speak for us all

-HECK!

If that was the case the US would look like Chile in 1973

………………………

I actually do respect Hawks opinion but wonder if French may have hit on something. Bill O'Reilly, Fox "News" commentator did call for an American Boycott of French products when France opposed the invasion of Iraq.

The boycott fizzled and 2,500 dead Americans later the French appear to have been right in their advice. (Hawk can graph how long it takes just to say 2,500 names one after another to give some scale)

At any rate Bill O'Reilly has a real hatred for France and it seems to infect those who take this demagogue seriously. I only hope Hawk takes a hard look at the issues, and the realities... and remember just who a government is supposed to represent and whose interests really matter in the long run. You want 100% employment? Go to China. Nobody gets fired in a labor camp.

Well, if we're bringing up "historic, contemptible surrender-attitude of the French govt", let's remember they sure did come in handy during that little Revolutionary War deal. That worked out alright.

About the "babies" and "free rides", the law is about employers being able to fire anyone under a certain age for no reason. Either you've missed the point or just have angst against the French. Either way, let's all have some Freedom Fries and a smile.

-HECK!

France Now Officially Ruled by the Spoiled Child Mob

Yes, whaddya know—France surrendered!

Chirac to Replace Youth Jobs Law

PARIS Apr 10, 2006 (AP)— President Jacques Chirac, bowing to intense pressure from students and unions, announced plans Monday to replace a contested employment law that set off massive protests and strikes across France.


Of course France wasn't trying to be mean to the leetle keedies with this jobs law, they were trying to keep their economy from collapsing. But the Spoiled Children and euphemistic "young people from the suburbs," also known as Rioting Islamists, can't see beyond their own navel. The Islamists would in fact love a collapse of the system seeing it as their opportunity to take France by riot. After all, if they can control legislation with a temper tantrum, why not?

With this news out of France, Friday's little noticed equivalent of an EU economic war game makes a lot more sense. While this story couches the EU's concern of an economic meltdown on a potential hedge fund meltdown or "other financial shock" it's reasonable to think that the EU realizes they must consider what a French economic collapse would do to the rest of their wobbly alliance.

I was CERTAIN that you whould have showed up sooner or later (rather sooner ... ) with this kind of stuff Curley Joe

You are so predictible ...

My answer to your ramblings is already in my previous post.

The french government did what your morally bankrupt Bush administration is unable to do (for it would mean the end of their nonsensical concepts): they reminded the fact that they were elected for the people and ruling by them, and that what they were attempting to do was opposed to the will of the said people - period.
Now you can rant as much as you want about surrendering or other insults familiar to you - I couldn't care less from individuals like you.
DEMOCRACY has prevailed.

One can always count on a very quick response from Mr. French on this particular thread.

So the truth about curly Hawk has finally come out. He has no love or respect for democracy.

Yes but not in the number they did, that pathetic childish campaign started to die out after about 9 months and only the most babyish Americans are still on it. It has not really had an affect I would guess although it is difficult to tell. I always found it intresting that at the height of the campaign that Frnace had more tourists from the US than any where else on the globe.

Not all Americans are pro-bush anti-France people. And I confirm that the number of Americans in the streets of Paris is really impressive. They are welcome ! Enjoy the french way of life !