Immigration reform

Immigration and our Borders Forum

I would like to start some discussion on Immigration Reform and the latest proposals.
1. Amnesty
or
2. Fencing it in.
or
3. Temporary worker visa.
or
4. Punishment for illegal immigrants
or
5. Punishment for employers of illegal immigrants.
or
6. All of the above.

It's just so muddled right now, so many people on both sides taking advantage of the situation. I have to stew on it for a while.

What I don't like is all the protests, it's ridiculous.

-HECK!

Regardless of any proposals on the table, Americans have their points of view.

Illegal immigrnats are just that ILLEGAL. At some point we have to stop illegal immigration, not only from Mexico but for those who overstay their visa as many have and continue to do today.

When I see the thousands protesting, I see a lot of illegals standing there taking advantage of the same rights as provided to legal residents.

Yes, we need those workers to do a job here but, they should have a working status that provides them rights. They have no work rights or legal status to provide them with any form of security or protection. The employer can pretty much do as the please.

The biggest issue with having legal migrant workers is that the government will mandate a pay scale and that will increase the cost of produce or other commerce where illegals are used today. I don't think think the America or the world is ready for that cost inflation.
As Vincete' Fox says, "Mexicans do the work that other Americans won't do", and I believe that is true. However, if the pay scale was higher, more legal residents would do the work.

Doubt there will ever be a $15 per hour job digging ditches though.

I see a lot of different illegal immigrants- those who come here to take advantage of our system and those that want to and become viable, upright American citizens. I know both kinds.

I don't think there should be open borders, and security should be tighter.

It's a black & white situation that is all gray underneath.

-HECK!

I've always been split on the immigration thing, and I'm split now. Yes there are lots of illegal immigrants that take advantage of the system, but then there are others who don't. There are those who truly come here to make a better life for their families and do it the right way. I don't think everyone should be punished. The dishonest ones should be deported like always. The honest workers could be given a temp. workers visa but what happens AFTER that "temporary" time, do we kick 'em back out? that's not right. We're going to have to spend all this money to house them in jails right? And why punish those who are taking them in? Again, some honest, some dishonest. Some people are simply trying to give these people a chance to change their situation. I think this issue will always be a battle no matter which side wins.

I think that that those who wish to come here to make a better life is awesome as that is what America is about but, they should be legal. Period. I know they are upstanding people with families but, that shouldn't stop them from being legal and payign taxes.
Those who come here to mooch off the system need to go back to their countries and re-enter legally. Then they can have the rights associated with legal immigrants.
I don't believe in putting them in jail, just send them home and make them re-apply legally.
Employers who hire illegal immigrants need to be fined extensively to prevent this from happening.

Can you imagine the taxes from each state that are not being paid? Also, Mexico could not survive without the income from America going back into their economy. When they take the illegal wage and go back to Mexico with it, it hurts both countires in the long run.

BTW- There are ditch digging jobs for $15.00 an hour right here in Wisconsin. Seasonable jobs though.

Living in San Diego, I see many immigrants on a daily basis. Here is my two cents on the issue.

Once you enter this great country illegally, you have broken the law. It does not matter what your motives are or how nice of a person you are. You are a law breaker. You have stolen something from our country. If you get a job, you have stolen a job that you are not entitled to have. It is against the law to hire illegal immigrants. Motives do not justify breaking the law.

I am tired of hearing that the illegals do jobs that no one wants. Yeah right! Hmmm here in San Diego illegal immigrants working for nothing have ruined the drywall trade, the painters trade and the landscapers trade. Carpentry jobs now to go illegals instead of qualified men who want the work. They have stolen the livelihoods of many people all so that a bunch of scabby contractors could get rich. Yes, they may be poor, but it does not excuse them taking jobs that they are not legally allowed to hold.

We should not give ANYONE amnesty. Why reward those who have zero respect for our laws? IF they did, they would apply for a green card and abide by our decisions. IF the government gives amnesty, it will send a message to more of the people who want to come here that they should make that move.

Fence us in, enforce the laws on the books and deport the ones that are caught. Also, if they really want reform then they must do this: change the law so that you must have one parent as a U.S. citizen to become one yourself instead of being one just by being born on our soil. That would drastically change the game down here in San Diego.

There is simply no such thing as a job Americans won’t do. This is the reddest of red herrings. The jobs that appear to be ones that Americans won’t do are actually jobs that don’t pay enough.

In a free market, every task has its price. If no Americans will pick lettuce for $5 per hour, you have to pay more. Maybe you will have to raise the pay to $10 per hour. If Americans won’t pay the retail price for lettuce that results from $10 per hour pickers, then they don’t get lettuce. But that’s the price of lettuce in a free market.

Illegal immigration is being sold with a kind of free trade argument. Yet it is the perfect opposite of free trade. It’s a rigged bargain. It is not a level playing field to have our legal labor market competing with an economically distressed, illegal labor pool with a much lower standard of living. It is the same thing as trying to compete with child labor, prison labor, or outright slave labor.

In the case of undocumented American workers, not only are the legitimate labor competitors harmed by the unfair competition, but also, the economic disadvantage of the undocumented workers is being unfairly exploited for economic greed.

My cousin wanted me to post his opinion:

Yes....making illegal immigration a felony is really going to do the job. (sarcasm) Remember this crap only comes up in Even numbered years because its politcial. How is this even going to work, are they going to arrest everybody....Hello its already illegal to be undocumented, and nobody's doing anything about it. These idiots (Republicans) think making it illegal is going to solve the problem. Thats like living on the north pole, wearing t-shirts and shorts and getting a cold, and taking cough medicine. Hello your in the north pole with Tshirts and shorts!!!!...take all the medicine you want, your not going stop the cold from getting into your bdoy. Gathering up and deporting illegals is not going to stop illegals from crossing the border. This is just politcal pandering...and everyone is eating it up like pancakes...


Any opinions on the following?
1. Amnesty - WTF for....?
or
2. Fencing it in. they will climb it. You want a concrete wall...like the gaza strip?...there's a good role model for peace and economic relations.
or
3. Temporary worker visa....My parents were here on 'temporary visa'....35 years later, they are still here....nuff said
or
4. Punishment for illegal immigrants ...what spanking? we can jail them, cost to us...
or
5. Punishment for employers of illegal immigrants...yes , but i guarentee you it will not be enough to keep them from doing it. Other than shutting down the business...and it wont come to that, wait to see what the dole, and del monte lobbyist will say about that.

It's always going to be a sensitive subject.

I think there should be a WWE Royal Rumble with 100 or so in a giant ring and the last one standing in the ring gets to come in. Have these once a month on pay per view. Charge each entrant, each person who wants to watch it live and charge double for the PPV and tons of cash would pour in. Now THAT'S American as Apple Pie.

-HECK!

Regardless of your view on the matter, this picture is funny.

http://www.boomspeed.com/heck/sign.jpg

-HECK!

There was an American citizen outrage over the UAE port deal. In terms of dire consequences, however, this immigration bill makes the port deal look like a walk in the woods. The problem is that the American people will not respond with vehemence to this as they did with the port deal because they are mostly unaware of this.

With the port deal, the Democrats saw an opportunity to hammer Bush with it. So the mainstream media naturally ran the story, and the American people wasted no time in cutting the legs off the proposal.

With this immigration issue, both Republicans and Democrats are for amnesty in some form, so the media sees no reason to criticize it for the enlightenment of the American citizens. This issue is HUGE, yet it is missing in action on the evening news. Right now, the best hope for all the people, including Conservatives, is that Hillary Clinton seizes this issue and hammers Bush with it. Then the mainstream media will get right behind her and wake up the country within one day and the people will throw this off.

Otherwise the only hope of waking up the populace is the Internet and talk radio.

Ha Ha, I'm certainly woke up... God it's all so depressing. The enemies of democracy have found our weakness. Caught upon the horns of dilemma. We want to help the poor and disadvantaged, we want to have a country where our borders are respected by our neighbors.

How much respect can illegal aliens have for a nation they have disrespected the laws of. How dare they use the benefits of citizenship.

Castro showed the enemies of America how to do us harm... empty your prisons.. your madhouses and asylums... gather up the weak minded, the perverts, the violent, put them in boats and send them to America.

Almost every totalitarian regime in the world is doing it. China does it, Russia does it, Haiti, on and on. Our government is helpless. The right wing wants cheap labor and unless regular Americans take to the streets, support operation minuteman, start vigilante actions, boycotts of businesses who are profiting by using illegal alien workers. Boycotting Mexico and charging them for the costs of apprehension & deportation, all will be lost.

But most of all ... VOTE... VOTE... VOTE Bush still hasn't given the eleven million illegals the vote But they are forcing ballots to be printed in spanish so it's coming.

what the hell is wrong with building a cement wall?

I think the problem is the wall would only be about 4 foot tall. They need a big, 10 foot one, preferably with barbed wire or broken pieces of glass in the top.

Never has the American political class been so out of phase with the interests of the U.S. citizens. But unfortunately, never have those citizens been so asleep.

In a rare conjunction, both parties are aligned against the U.S. citizens on this issue. The Republicans represent business, which wants cut rate labor. The Democrats welcome a swelling of the downtrodden component of their natural constituency.

Eleven million Mexicans is just the tip of the iceberg. Distressed humanity from the U.S. border all the way to Argentina will pour into the vacuum that is the economic opportunity of the U.S. once the floodgates are opened.

This issue to me is not the work or the workers. We have enough work for whom ever wants it. We just need them to pay for their benefits.
I guess the thing I dont know about illegal migrant workers is how they get paid. Is it cash, check, chickens? Probably don't pay any taxes.

As far as those who take jobs from skilled workers like drywall and carpentry, those employers will pay with fewer contracts if the quality of work is deminished in some form. I think the penalty falls on the employers who support hiring illegals. They are MORE guilty than the poeple looking for jobs. If they don't hire illegals, there are no jobs and they would stop coming illegally.

Just how much the ecconomy would suffer is probably just speculation. 12 million illegals does not mean that they all work. Some are children and mothers drinking from the American cool-aid.

Most illegals in most countries will be paid cash in hand so the fall under the radar.

The problem America seems to have is the same problems that a majority of countries have and juts like in the US there seems to be no easy answer. There have been a few things that have been done by the EU and UK to combat illegal immigration for example the admission of the Eastern Bloc countries into the EU gave citizens a higher standard of living and cut down on immigration, you still get Eastern bloc citizens but the movemnt of people goes both ways so it's alright. In the UK we introduced the Minumum Wage Act which menat you get paid at least £5.15 P/H this menat Britons were more lilely to take the low paid jobs that illegals did we also had better communication with other EU countries and we installed X - Ray machines at ports and carried out random checks on cars we also tightend custom and immigration control at the major UK airports. Howvere we still get a lot of illegals and that proves that no matter wht you do either at the White House or at the borders people are still going toi find a way through, it must said though that illegals now come from the ME and Far East instead of the Eastern bloc.

I do think though that offering an manetsy or a temporary work permit will not work because illegals normally would fail the tests to get these visa's.

I have a great idea. Lets make Mexico the 51st State. Problem solved. Just kidding.

The immigration laws are enforced. I go to San Diego quite a bit and there is a giant border check point about 30 minutes before I even get to the city.

-HECK!

Heck and USA1,

My options #1 and #1 are just meant to represent the basic polar opposites of the overall arguments. I realize that the current border laws are not 100% un-enforced at this time, and that all Latin American borders will not be taken down overnight with 100% of immigration laws being nullified.

However, I stand behind my basic premise of the two opposing positions, and my identification of the supporters of each.

With respect to option #2, there is currently a NAFTA-like agreement making its way forward, which is said to embody principles that will indeed have the effect of opening the U.S. to the entire Latin American labor force. It will be great for business, and great for Latin America.

I personally don't care. That's my view, apathetic, as I don't care one bit.

I'm not really THAT familiar with the LEGAL process of getting citizenship. But i know people can apply for a student or work visa, temporarily. Problem is, what happens once you can't get those anymore? Should we just kick them back to their country? I don't think so. and what about those who try to get the visa but can't. These are some of the ones who then come here illegally. what other choice do they have?

I do not, however, think that the illegals should be crying about not getting rights. But I wouldn't put 'em in jail if they're found either.

That's the catch of it all. Do we sacrifice certain cases in an effort to use a broadsword solution to solve the problem?

-HECK!

It's a thin line. I can't tell if some people have a problem with illegal immigration or immigration in general.

As I said, I really don't care, I am apathetic on the issue, but I just see it as political posturing. I don't care if millions of Mexicans are coming across the border.

But how can you get welfare if you are not a US citizen? I know that to claim Social security in the UK you need to show ID that shows your country of origin and you have to show up on the National Insurance register, don't you have some kind of rule like that in the US?

This story keeps heating up. Massive numbers of illegals take to the streets, burning US flags, flying Mexican flags, hurling racial insults. The first glimmer of terrorism from eleven million law-breaking foreigners. Thanks to Bush and his cheap labor pals.

As you like to point out, Bush is the president. The buck should stop there.

-HECK!

In response to those posting illegals do not pay taxes so their citizen children shouldn't get benefits - children who are eligible for benefits get them whther their parents are citizens or not and whether the parents pay taxes or not. There are citizens who work under the counter too. There are illegals who have fake ID and pay taxes, they just can't get tax returns or risk federal prosecution.And the argument that getting paid under the table avoids taxation is generally false. Businesses who pay employees above the table can write off wages as a business expense so they can reduce their taxable income. Businesses who pay wages under the table (unreported wages) cannot claim the wages as a business expense so the business is paying the income taxes instead of the employees paying the income taxes. Taxes are still being paid.
I just wish businesses would stand up to the federal government and tell the feds they will not police the populace for illegal aliens. If the feds don't want illegals working it is their job to stop it, not the small business man. Leave it to the feds to identify the illegals. It is not right for citizens who have lost their ID to not be able to work because a business cannot prove they are legal or not. We need to have rights as a citizen whether we have ID or not.