Will things ever change in America? |
| Posted by: HECK! | | Suggested and written by Desert Hawk:
Will things ever change in America?
Will the most influential country in the world ever come together in a united front—at least in such a manner as to become more effective in the fight against the world's worst nightmare, Islamo-terrorism—without its politicians continuously undermining each other for political gain?
• No, it'll never happen. Not only are Americans too removed and too complacent in their daily lives to care enough about Islamo-terror, but politicians will always claw at each other for political leverage at all costs and there are idealogical/philosophical/religious/sociological divides that run too wide and too deep in a free society like ours.
• Yes, the time will come when the desire for self-preservation will compel the West to cast aside current policies and to adopt more definitive and decisive measures against Islamo-radicalism.
• The chief enemy is NOT Islamo-fascism but rather it is America with its arrogence and insatiable appetite for global domination and wanton lust of consumerism. America shall rightly reap what it sows when another 9/11 will bring her to her knees.
• Whatever. I can't wait to watch American Idol tonight!
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-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: flying panda | | Politicions tend to disagree with logic, and get very defensive against threats to their power ... so i picked yes | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | |
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flying panda said this in post #2 :
Politicions tend to disagree with logic, and get very defensive against threats to their power ... so i picked yes |

Your statement seems to contradict your vote.
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| Posted by: HECK! | | I said no but for a different reason. In this premise, I think that so-called Islamo-terror/radicalism will always exist. With any extreme belief system, the more that it's trying to be extinguished, the more it grows and branches out like a weed.
In Vietnam American "tried to stop the spread of Communism." Didn't work, but ultimately the worst fears about communism proved to be fruitless and the best weapon against it was the tactic used in the Cold War. Difference is America can't turn it's back to the Middle East like it did to the Soviet Union. Why? $$$, Oil, $$$, and Oil. Even if our government did, anyone really think American-based business will? Hell, we were making money over there on the eve on Iraq invading Kuwait.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | |
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HECK said this in post #4 :
I said no but for a different reason. In this premise, I think that so-called Islamo-terror/radicalism will always exist.
-HECK! |
Yes, obviously it will always exist. That doesn't mean that you don't fight to eliminate as much of the cancer as you can.
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HECK said this in post #4 :
With any extreme belief system, the more that it's trying to be extinguished, the more it grows and branches out like a weed.
-HECK! |
I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. When it comes to self-proclaimed mujahedeen the lesson of Fallujah applies well. In April '04 Marines had them on the run, trapped, weakened, off-balance, retreating and in disarray. Then amid the pressures of the Abu Ghraib media blitz the Marines were told to hold-off and politics spilled onto the battlefield like. Many Marines uselessly lost their lives while on patrols during this pointless stand-off. The Marines were ordered to withdraw. The offensive was canceled. The insurgents/foreign fighters inside Fallujah gained strength and refortified. They were shown in the media waving their AK-47s and RPG launchers and celebrating their victory over the retreating Marines. The Marines were ordered back several months later—this time to finish the job and flush out the city.
You cannot allow radicalism to fester and gain strength.
Violence is the only POLITICS these people understand.
Read "NO TRUE GLORY" By Bing West.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000E8N5VY.01._PE32_PI_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
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| Posted by: HECK! | | On the second point, I'm basically saying that when dealing with a fanatical, poorly educated, religiously-based militant group, when presented with martyrdom they and their 'cause' become more powerful than any foot soldier or grunt. And when it's a cause versus insurmountable odds, a 'holy' war, the the ranks of those who believe they're doing God's will swell instead of shrink. You cut off this beasts head it will grow back somewhere else. Do we sit back and take it in the jaw? Hell no. Is it being handled correctly and in the best interests of the people of the United States? Hell no.
Terrorist groups of all nationalities with all different goals will always be out there. Sure, you want to combat groups that are planning to attack our country, but to focus on just the Islamic groups is not realistic. A purported holocaust against said terrorists will only vilify our country and beget other terror groups. Getting a bunch of religious loonies together with guns is easy. Something to fight and die for, that's the tricky part.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | |
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HECK said this in post #7 :
On the second point, I'm basically saying that when dealing with a fanatical, poorly educated, religiously-based militant group, when presented with martyrdom they and their 'cause' become more powerful than any foot soldier or grunt. And when it's a cause versus insurmountable odds, a 'holy' war, the the ranks of those who believe they're doing God's will swell instead of shrink. You cut off this beasts head it will grow back somewhere else. Do we sit back and take it in the jaw? Hell no. Is it being handled correctly and in the best interests of the people of the United States? Hell no.
Terrorist groups of all nationalities with all different goals will always be out there. Sure, you want to combat groups that are planning to attack our country, but to focus on just the Islamic groups is not realistic. A purported holocaust against said terrorists will only vilify our country and beget other terror groups. Getting a bunch of religious loonies together with guns is easy. Something to fight and die for, that's the tricky part.
-HECK! |
We're not going into Syria, or Jordan, or Egypt, or Iran, or Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia to pull these animals out of their individual holes. We are fighting anarchist murderers where our troops are, where they need to be to do a job—in Afghanistan and Iraq. Our job there is not to hunt down every single jihadi. Our job there is to help the government help themselves. Why we're there will always be up to debate but if these governments want us out all they need to do is say so.
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| Posted by: Inner City Blues | | None. I don't like any of the choices. I'm not the biggest fan of American Idol, but I do love The Boondocks, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Justice League Unlimited.
I agree with Heck on this, the real problem is oil and money and that's what's causing the grating of this conflict. The next place of interest for the US will suddenly sprout an insurmountable enemy that must be subdued, that's how it tends to be.
Terrorism is the new evil and many Americans have taken it hook, line, and sinker.  | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | |
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Desert Hawk said this in post #6 :
When it comes to self-proclaimed mujahedeen the lesson of Fallujah applies well. In April '04 Marines had them on the run, trapped, weakened, off-balance, retreating and in disarray. Then amid the pressures of the Abu Ghraib media blitz the Marines were told to hold-off and politics spilled onto the battlefield like. Many Marines uselessly lost their lives while on patrols during this pointless stand-off. The Marines were ordered to withdraw. The offensive was canceled. The insurgents/foreign fighters inside Fallujah gained strength and refortified. They were shown in the media waving their AK-47s and RPG launchers and celebrating their victory over the retreating Marines. The Marines were ordered back several months later—this time to finish the job and flush out the city.
You cannot allow radicalism to fester and gain strength.
Violence is the only POLITICS these people understand.
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Speaking of Abu Ghraib there are now new photos for the media to coo over. 
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| Posted by: HECK! | | Oh great, here we go again. Some of the dirty terrorists need their junk hooked up to a car battery.
I just hope they didn't do another naked pyramid.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | | These are new photos of the same old incident that happened in '04. Nothing new, althought the media wouldn't mind causing you to believe that it's a new isue and showing them serves a purpose.  | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Inner City Blues | |
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Desert Hawk said this in post #12 :
These are new photos of the same old incident that happened in '04. Nothing new, althought the media wouldn't mind causing you to believe that it's a new isue and showing them serves a purpose. |
Actually I believe the issue is the fight over the release of the photos.
Oh yeah, same old incident where prisoners were killed when the likelihood of guilt was near zero...
I hope you're not a churchgoing man Curley.
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| Posted by: nikiTa | | What things?
The weather?
The smell of pollution?
Football?
Pizza?
Apple pie?
Baseball?
The smell after rain?
Snow on a purple mountain top?
The kiss of lovers on Valentine's Day?
The hug of a child?
The smile of a dog?
Pop music? Talk about pop music?
Rednecks?
Guns, beer, and tobacco?
Exactly what do you want to change in America? | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | |
| quote: |
nikiTa said this in post #15 :
What things?
The weather?
The smell of pollution?
Football?
Pizza?
Apple pie?
Baseball?
The smell after rain?
Snow on a purple mountain top?
The kiss of lovers on Valentine's Day?
The hug of a child?
The smile of a dog?
Pop music? Talk about pop music?
Rednecks?
Guns, beer, and tobacco?
Exactly what do you want to change in America? |
Read the question in the opening message and all ye questions shall be answered.
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| Posted by: nikiTa | | Oh, those things.
I don't worry or bat an eye about things that are out of my control.
After all...
Tomorrow is another day. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: HECK! | | Then the Bush's, Cheney's, Rove's, etc. will continue on and on.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: nikiTa | | No, such people will have an end.
But it will take a force much greater than me and the rest of the world put together... | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: USA1 | | America has already changed.
The ACLU will become a political party.
We will continue to evolve into a pacifist country where anything goes and you are free to come and go as you please from any country you wish. You may pratcice any religion you wish and speak your mind for or against anything you wish without threat of persicution.
You can start your own militia, terrorist camp or what ever you want here. We supply the guns and protection.
You can speak ill of our govenrment and of God and nobody will care.
Conservatism will die and the liberals will take over.
Anyone can consort with the enemy (if there is one) without fear of treason.
You will be able to marry anyone or anything. All people will have the same rights whether you are law abiding or not.
There will be no more wars in which America is involved.
All oil and gas will be provided by Islamic states in which they promise an unlimited supply without interuption. OPEC will control the costs to the consumer.
Everything will be hunky dory and we will all live in peace and harmony with the world. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Desert Hawk | |
| quote: |
USA1 said this in post #20 :
America has already changed.
The ACLU will become a political party.
We will continue to evolve into a pacifist country where anything goes and you are free to come and go as you please from any country you wish. You may pratcice any religion you wish and speak your mind for or against anything you wish without threat of persicution.
You can start your own militia, terrorist camp or what ever you want here. We supply the guns and protection.
You can speak ill of our govenrment and of God and nobody will care.
Conservatism will die and the liberals will take over.
Anyone can consort with the enemy (if there is one) without fear of treason.
You will be able to marry anyone or anything. All people will have the same rights whether you are law abiding or not.
There will be no more wars in which America is involved.
All oil and gas will be provided by Islamic states in which they promise an unlimited supply without interuption. OPEC will control the costs to the consumer.
Everything will be hunky dory and we will all live in peace and harmony with the world. |

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