Doctor's Death Machine

Medicine, Science & Technology Forum

From the Article:

Australia's leading euthanasia advocate Dr Philip Nitschke, who has helped several terminally ill people end their lives, will fly to the United States on Wednesday to unveil his latest death machine.


Nitschke will present his device, which allows a person to breath in pure carbon monoxide to hasten death, at the national euthanasia conference of The Hemlock Society USA in San Diego starting on Wednesday.


"It produces pure carbon monoxide for a person who is suffering and decides it is time to end the suffering. It will produce a peaceful death," Nitschke told Reuters on Tuesday.

-> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030107/80/dhz8v.html


This story follows much in the likeness of the other guy (his name escapes me) that has been charged with a number of penalities for ushering death along in the terminally ill....

What are your thoughts on this?

thumbs up to him an Kavorkian (sp?) both. Perhaps suicide is a sin by the bible, but I don't think they had he terminally ill in mind when that was written..

"It is through the grace of God that a true believer will be be cured of their illness when their love is in Jesus Christ."

I think something along those lines is what the authors of the Bible were thinking when they wrote it.

Religiously speaking, our bodies are not ours to kill - since they were never ours to begin with, but "shells" that our souls were given by God to walk this mortal world.

Granted my time here on earth has been short in comparrison to the span of human civilization, but I can't help but note that I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who was terminally ill having a miraculous turn in fortune, suddenly become well and return to living a normal life. No, those glorified TV shows showing the horribly crippled child leap with joy out of the wheel chair don't count. Does this mean that there is no "true believer" who by the grace of God has been healed in this world?

Religiously speaking, does this mean that our surgeons are trespassing every time they invasively enter these bodies that do not belong to us? I read recently that there are more than a million successful surguries performed each year in the U.S. alone that are responsible for saving lives which seemed otherwise untouched "through the grace of God". If those surgeons had not operated, those patients would have died.

I cannot cite an example from biblical verses right now, but I'm certain that there are passages that clarify that you have to help yourself before God can help you. In that regard, praying for God to help your baseball team win the season this year should largely be disregarded from above: your team has to help itself to win that year before divine intervention will have any play in it. Honestly how could it be viewed any other way? Is your baseball team somehow more Holy than the other? Hogwash if you say so!

Similarly, doesn't it stand to reason that if you are in a situation to help yourself regarding your own health that you should be permitted to do so before God would intervene? Help thyself, surely! If you are dehydrated, then by all means get thy butt up and drink a glass of water. If you are hungry, eat! Do not famish yourself only to prove that your love alone of God and his son Jesus Christ would not save you from an untimely death where you could have helped yourself. If you have a bladder stone, or any of countless other medically treatable conditions, would you not seek medical help for yourself before turning to Holistic Medicine (generally also things that you can do for yourself, but statistically considerably less effective than scientifically determined medical & surgical alternatives..) ?

Perhaps, in a similar-but-opposite context, you may help yourself with terminal illnesses in the same way. When your heavenly bodily vessel is irreparably harmed, could not euthanasia be viewed as helping oneself overcome the pain and return to God?

If a doctor told me "You have Cancer"

I would say "Great! How are we going to handle this?"

If he said "You are terminally ill, you have 6 months to a year to live."

I would say "Great! Do you know of any other doctors I could talk to so I can get a second opinion?"

It's all in the mind and the will of the heart. Perhaps I do have a terminal illness, and my Doc says I have one year to live, but I survive another nine years. Was a plastic bag over my head really an option?

Yes, I understand it is the pain and mental anguish that is involved to make a decision of this sort. Honestly, it could have to do with what you really want out of life. You can always say NO.

I hate how some in the medical field have that cold, hash reality syndrome...they should really get that checked out.

Well..

I must say that in my time here so far, I have experienced the deaths of five people close to my family, three of which were of relevance to the topic of terminal illness

One was emphysema for which there is no great treatment, especially for those who develop the condition from decades of smoking. There was nothing that could be done for this guy, his body just up & quit one day. Was he a candidate for assisted euthanasia? Probably not.. he was still mobile and had not much of a sense of his impending doom.

Another was also a lung condition, which I thought was emphysema, but on reading over the symptoms, perhaps it was compounded by something else as the condition was accompanied by fluid in the lungs. I believe her condition was also brought on by smoking. This poor woman drowned to death in her own bodily fluids. Her passing was actually quite gruesome, not only physically painful for her, but visually and emotionally shocking for those who were with her at the time - I'll spare you the details. There was nothing anybody could do for her because of her old age (over 80! ) - Was she a candidate? I sure think so! She suffered needlessly on antibiotics and sundry respiratory treatments for months.. and that's ALL she did during that time was suffer.

One died from AIDS. I don't know what the actual final disease was that killed him, it doesn't matter. Ultimately, AIDS killed him. Or you could say he killed himself by leading a promiscuous, multiple anonymous sex-partner lifestyle. This close friend of mine spent a full year in Hospice's care & treatment, but there was nothing they could do for him. They knew it and he knew it. It is an incurable desease to this day. That was ten years ago. Was he a candidate? Perhaps, indeed. How can you argue that there are treatment options and hope for someone with an actual terminall illness for which there is no cure, nor proven effective treatment? I was shocked by how fast my very strong and helthy friend withered away before my eyes until he was no longer able to walk and finally passed. AIDS claimed his life in about a year from the initial HIV infection that was detected. By comparrison to many cases, his was a rapid decline in health - others spend much longer, many years before losing their lives to the same disease. There are some cases where these people come to terms with their "fate" (if you will), and learn to live out the rest of their days to their fullest, grateful for each morning they re-awake. But there are others who spend the meager few rest of their days in mental anguish, torturously awaiting their final moment with absolutely nothing to look forward to. How can people like this be forced to suffer?

Religiously speaking, I guess perhaps there is an argument to be made - I think most people recognize that the Holy scriptures could be interpreted to support just about any statement one ever could care to make a case for. But ultimately, I think, that in this land of the free, we should not have only the freedom OF religion, but a freedom FROM religion. If someone chooses to live their life (or not! ) in such a way that is not in accordance with Christianity, even in the nation formed "under God", so long as their actions do not negatively impact those around them, they should not be penalized, restrained or comdemned from their actions.

I agree with the standpoint that one shouldn't choose to end one's own life.

But let's think about this. If someone is simply being kept alive by a machine, and not under their own body's ability to support itself, shouldn't they have the right to pull the plug?

Wouldn' this apply to respirators, IV's, and drugs? What happened to going out into the wilderness alone to die because you know it's your time?

Is it our own fear of death? Or our family's fear?

Do certain people in rest homes and hospitals want to end their suffering? Do we have the right to tell them they are wrong?

In the end, I suppose that is between you and God.

this is an issue that is very close to me. i have a genetic disease in my family called huntingdons desease which is gradual deterioration of the section of your brain which controlls the movement of the muscles all over your body.

my grandfather had the disease, and out of his 6 siblings, 5 of them also have it, my mother has it and out of her four siblings, thee also have it. you canot imagine what it is like to have to watch almost your entire family gradually deteriorate from being healthy happy people to be vegetables (sorry if that word offends some people).

I belive that voluntary euthanasia should be allowed in these types of cases, that is: diseases with no cure and/ or treatment and no cure or treatment likely to be available in the near future.

I also now people with cancer or other ilnesses that have recovered and if you found out two days after your mum had killed herself that she would have recovered you would be devastated obviously.

however, as much i would like to see my family all lead happy and healthy lives that is not the reality. my grandfather wanted to die and as he had no other alternative, he stopped eating in an effort to literally starve himself to death.

i don't think anyone wants to die like this without dignity and in incredible pain. surely there must be another way, and i think voluntary euthanasia is it.

I am a Christian, and I think suicide is a sin. But if it is committed while mentally and/or physically so ill that one cannot live no more, I believe this sin is forgiven by God.

My mother had lupus in the late 50's. Over a 6 year period the illness resulted in complete renal failure. At the time there was no dialysis, and the best "treatment" the doctors could do was to cut the skin on her body to allow some of the liquid buildup in the tissues to escape, to relieve some of her pain, via open cuts of the skin.

My mother was as much a true believer in God and Jesus as anyone could be, all her life, and she lived and served her whole life based on her faith. No one who knew her would ever think that my mother's lack of a "miracle cure" had anything to do with her somehow lacking in true faith.

She endured to the end, even made it thru one more Christmas for the sake of her two young children. But if I was in a similar situation, with no hope of recovery, in desperate pain, I believe God in his mercy would allow me to end my life.

My personal belief is that God is a loving God, a God of mercy and forgiveness, and he does not require anyone to be tortured to death to leave this earth. Christ died a painful, WILLING death to atone for ALL of our sins.

I also believe that our concept of time is not meaningful to God, since he is always in the present tense (I am). Thus I don't believe that it matters at all if a person dies 6 months or 6 days earlier rather than later.

At the end, a person's life is judged by God, not the person's death, according to what I believe in.

If you think about it, millions of people kill themselves each year: by smoking, drinking, DUI, DWI, doing drugs, eating too much or eating the wrong foods, not exercising, broiling with anger and hate, lacking spiritual peace, stressing out due to bad marriages or divorces - the list of bad choices which lead to a self-imposed early death is endless.

It just takes them a VERY LONG TIME usually to kill themselves. Since many of them do not truly understand that they ARE slowly killing themselves, are they guilty of suicide?

I think morally doing all of the above to our bodies is much "worse" of a sin than assisted suicide of the terminally ill.

A few of these self-indulgent people manage to die in a very pleasant way. One particular person comes to mind: my uncle who left his wife and 3 young children to run around womanizing, drinking and smoking to his heart's content. And one morning, at the age of 79, he peacefully collapsed over his morning coffee - a sudden, major heart attack. He was always healthy, was physically as fit as any 30 year old, but I don't think he lead a life pleasing to God. In my opinion the only dignity in his life was his death, but I leave his life for God to judge, and pray for him to forgive my uncle.

I also think that the bible does not address this issue at all because when the bible was written, the religious leaders were much more concerned about people killing OTHER people. And with lack of modern medicine most deaths must have been fairly quick. Assisted "living", as we know it, did not exist. No one was kept alive for 4 years, as my father-in-law was, in utter agony, with his innards burned and chronically infected after incorrect radiation treatment. Just as a side thought, if doctors involved in his "medical treatment" (which lead to his horrible death) get away with a monetary penalty, why should a doctor quickly ending the life of a person who is already nearly dead and who wants to die with dignity, receive jail time? Makes no sense. After 4 years of hell for the entire family we almost lost sight of the man we once knew and loved and of his wonderful life, because for 4 years we were only dealing with his slow and horrible death.

I also do not believe that the bible is the absolute truth to be taken literally, word by word. The God of Old Testament is nothing like the God of New Testament, yet God always is the same. I believe the bible has to be read with the Holy Spirit's guidance, and to be understood as a whole, rather than by one individual verse at a time. That is one reason Jesus spoke INTENTIONALLY in parables, to PREVENT US from taking his teachings LITERALLY, but for us to understand the essence of his spirit.

And also, Jesus did not come here for the saints, he came here for the sinners. And he did not come here to teach us how we should die but how we should live. He spoke very little of death and dying, his message was about love and our eternal life.

Therefore, I believe that assisted suicide of the terminally ill should be legal and is morally the right thing to do. We do not have laws to prevent people from slowly killing themselves, actually the government taxes alcohol and cigarettes, thus profiting from the people who choose to slowly kill themselves. Makes no sense to me, is contrary to the teachings of Jesus, and is morally the wrong thing to do.

I like to know what you guys think about this situation, would doctor assisted suscide be a better option?
check out this link.


www.inreview.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10488&forumid=15

From the moment you're born you start to die.