United Nations should condemned SINGAPORE

Countries Forum

Singapore executed , by hanging a 25 year- old Australian because of 14- ounces worth of drugs? No chance of redemption or a 2nd chance? Singapore should be condemed and some kind of economic ban ( similar to Cuba) led by US should happen. The family should sue the goverment and follow the lady whos child missing in Aruba.

Have you been to Singapore? Or any other Asian Country? Before you enter Singapore (as is the case with Malaysia, China, Taiwan, Indonesia, Vietnam and a host of other Asian Countries) you sign a declaration stating you understand that drug trafficing is punishable by death.

You'd have to be an idiot to do it. Singapore has jail terms for littering and even performing oral sex - why in the world would you even attempt to commit a crime there? I, myself, am Australian and I couldn't give a rat's ass about the guy they killed.

The guy was guilty of carrying drugs and when abroad you must adhere to your host country's laws and respect them. If what Gaboman is saying is true about signing a declaration then that guy must have thought he was to clever to get caught.

But a law against oral sex how in the hell is the enforced.

So Malcolm tell me, in your opinion is this a moral issue or yet again another non exsitent racist issue?

Face it the guy broke the law he knew the risks end of story.

What does this thread have anything to do with US foreign policy???

If they execute all people guilty of carrying drugs, then the color of the person's skin is totally irrelevant. Each country has a right to make their own rules. IF you sign the declaration, they you know the risks. He chose to play Russian roulette with his life all for a few ounces. Stupid.

and malcolm, for yo' info, gaboman is an Australian who lives in Taiwan.

word up.

I think the death penalty is stupid anyway, but Singapore is known for its strict punishments. Nonetheless, I'd like to go to Singapore one day, met a guy from there on a bus while touring the Mt. Fuji area. Seems like a nice enough country, just a little humid. I keep the position I had back in 1994 with Michael Fay, he did it, so he must be punished.

If you want to talk about the death penalty in the broader sense, then by all means I am against it, but the US is in a difficult position on that one.

Inner City Blues, its an absolutely beautiful Country. Very clean, great sites, and the people are exceedingly hospitible. Nice food too. Though, yeah, you've gotta go in Winter or early Spring.

malcolm xx, I don't think the Singaporean government cares about the source of the drugs, they just don't want them in their Country. By cutting off those who bring the drugs into their Country, the source is gone as far as their concerned. If they were just to give a slap on the wrist and tell the trafficers to go on their way, more and more people would attempt to bring drugs in and there would be less chance of catching the offenders. Drugs would slowly trickle into the Country and drugs would be come more widely distributed.

I would say that the punishment is quite severe, that's true; but it is their punishment to give. Like lodgebo said, adhere to your host Country's laws and you'll be alright. It has nothing to do with race as far as the Singapore government is concerned, nor is it an issue for me. As Dekka mentioned, and like it says right next to my name. I live in Taiwan (Asian Country, not the one with Thai people, its the little island off the coast of China/Hong Kong), so, see, I'm not racist... I'm surrounded by ***** and ****** all day

And Lodgbo, I have no idea how the oral sex law is enforced... but I'd like to be assigned to the job

I have heard Singapore is an extremely "conservative country." As I remember pornography is also illegal or at least it was in recent years. I also heard that it is largely Muslim...that Christianity was or maybe still is a punishable offense, but still Christianity is growing in a large number.

Hmm... you may be thinking of Malaysia. The biggest religion in Singapore is Buddhism, followed by Muslim and then Christianity. Though the Buddhism the Chinese population of Singapore profess to is partly Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism mixed into one.

I've always felt the Singapore government tries its best to integrate all cultures into its own... and its done a lot to keep harmony among the different religions, since it is really as multicultural society as they come. Basically they fight racism as they would other crimes. Jail time for even the simplest of derogatory comments.

One law in Singapore I find weird is when you buy a house, I believe, say, 50 years after it was built... its no longer your house. It belongs to the government once more. I forget the specifics of the law, but a friend of mine owned a house for about 10 years... the government took it back because of this law.

Interesting. I don't know if its the same, but it includes if you sell the house after 20 years, the government won't take it back for another 30 years. So basically, when you buy the house, you want to get a place with the least milage

Any idea where the logic behind this law comes from? I guess it makes sense from the Government's perspective...

There is the law of 50 years in the Old Testament, called the Year of Jubilee....
but back then it was for debts.
If you owed a debt to anyone, after 50 years it was wiped clean.

But I think this idea has kind of, well, been turned around.

There is the law of 50 years in the Old Testament, called the Year of Jubilee....
but back then it was for debts.
If you owed a debt to anyone, after 50 years it was wiped clean.

But I think this idea has kind of, well, been turned around.

I looked it up. Fascinating stuff


They really did a U-turn on that one though

I just stumbled into this thread and thought I'd add my 2 cents. I too am in Australian and although not an "official" Australian, I have lived here all my life, just as Van Nguyen had when he took those drugs to Singapore.

Some of the facts that were not reported in the initial post was the fact that he was carrying 400 grams of herion, which is enough to kill or at least damage the lives of hundreds, even thousands of people. Van Nguyen was not a simple drug mule, he was involved in the sourcing, preparation and distrubution of the drug to some extent. He was well-connected with the mafia and various asian gangs in Australia and his brother is now also under investigation in Australia for drug-trafficking.

This was not some wide-eyed innocent child being crully used by some big gang boss to ship drugs around. He knew what he was doing, he knew the laws in Singapore and he went anyway thining he wouldn't get caught. He did.

I have heard the laws in Singapore are so harsh I would be scared to cough in public, let alone do something as stupid as try and courier drugs through the country.

If you know there a death penalty for a crime, don't do it. Would you epxect the US government to let you off teh death penalty because you didn't know that was the punishment? Of course not, you can't expect Singapore to do it either.

.............................. that is the most confusing post I have every read. Are you still on the subject of a man receiving the death penalty in Singapore for drug trafficing, or have we moved onto something else?

I think now he wants to talk about how badly Aboriginals were treated during colonial times?

I retract! I retract! What I really wanted to say is that I can't understand 1. how it relates to the quote from dekka, and 2. exactly what it has to do with the topic.

Aboriginals were treated like crap in colonial times. There's no doubt about it. Poor buggers. Doesn't make Australia a racist Country. Though you wouldn't know it by the way the morons are carrying on over there right now

Not to over-generalize, but there is always an indenginous people that is subjucated in every society, ever. This sucks, but again, I'm not sure what exactly what the big point here is. I know there is a point. I am for the right point of view.

-HECK!

You know it's funny Malcolm that you have made no comment about the Canadian on death row in Taiwan or the 9 Austarlians that face the death penalty in Indonesia. In fact most of the South East Aisan countries carry the death penalty they also have some of the lowest figures of youths who are dependant on illegal narcotics.

As for getting the UN involved IMO they have got much bigger fish to fry.

Malcolm, if he was caught in Australia it would be Jail time, but probably not too much. Maybe a lot. No idea.

Point is though, he wasn't caught in Australia. Whether he was a drug mule or not is inconsequential... he broke the law in a foreign Country, knowing fully well of the possible consequences. If you were claiming he was set up and had no idea the drugs were on him (which is impossible), it would be a different story... but this wasn't some sort of witch hunt, and it wasn't a kangaroo court conviction. There is no excuse for breaking the law in a foreign Country, and it trivializes them to try and overturn their decisions on the basis of them being citizens of another Country.

And certain countries stll have public beheadings. It's all different in all different areas. In some parts women are stoned for being raped. Horrible.

You could start a whole other website dedicated to the injustices across the planet. My suggestion, get a lot of bandwith.

-HECK!

My problem with this whole thing is I'm sick of people breaking the law in foreign Countries under the assumption that their own Country's government will help them out...... why!?!? It's time people just realized that if you don't commit a crime, nothing'll happen to you.

If this guy hadn't brought any drugs into the Country of Singapore, he'd still be alive. It's easy to simplify it like that, cause that really is all there is to it. And now, tell me, malcolm, are you gonna be bringing any drugs into Singapore any time soon?

Yeah, thought so

count the Virginian in too

So what up Malcolm can't answer my questions or won't answer my questions.

Here they are again in case you overlooked them.

1. Do you think when visiting a country you should respect the laws and cultures of that country.

2. Do you think that people should accept the consquences of thier actions.

i think he answered them but was just having some technical difficulties

I see it know.

Sorry Malcolm my mistake. One thing Malcolm you say you don't support the Singapore law, so you think drug running is OK and dealing drugs is OK to because that is the law that got broken.

I seriously thought the first answer was a joke.

You either respect a culture, or you don't. You can't pick out which parts of a culture you like and which ones you don't. That's not respecting a culture. That's not even vaguely trying to somewhat understand a culture.

I don't want to beat a dead horse with a stick, but people know the punishment for trafficing drugs into Singapore. When the sign says don't piss on the electric fence, you DON'T PISS ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE. It's not even a case of crime and punishment ... it's just common sense.

Of course I'm confused, your response doesn't make any sense.

God creates culture

I don't believe in any God though, so why are you saying my God?

That'd be your God. but this isn't the religion forum, now, is it?

... so you're saying J.K. Rowling decides who lives and dies?

'Cause that's about how far it goes with me and Gods.

No, Free-Will kicks in about the time where God creates the nukes.

While I understand that this country has the right to its own set of rules and punishments, I agree that it is extreme. I don't believe that a person should take the argument that "If the country says it's illegal, just don't do it and there's no problem". For this case, sure, it fits. But can you imagine other circumstances that one can use this for? For example, the (alleged) killings of homosexuals in Iran because of their sexual orientation. I know I'm using an extreme example, though.

No, not at all. You make a valid point. But what do you think about the more gray areas? Like marijuana being legal in Amsterdamn?

Hell, there are parts of the United States where prostitution is legal.

-HECK!

I think we have to tak e each and every law and weigh them up as we see fit I guess. The thing is though when I go abroad I abide by the laws of that country and I would hope that when people come here they abide by the laws of this country thats all you can do really.

Interesting thought Amsterdam has a liberal approach to drugs and Singapore has a hardline policy on drugs yet they both have some of the lowest rates of drug dependency in the world yet countries that try to take the middle ground i.e US and UK have very high rates of drug dependency.

That's a really good point as always, lodgebo.

The solution is always somewhere in the middle. With regard to the drug trade there are several mitigating factors, most of which the general public is unaware, I assume. Same goes with Big Oil, healthcare and most other problems.

-HECK!

First thing to the Aussies; I was in Darwin back in 2000, and I absolutely loved Australia. I was staying on the RAAF base out there. Truely some of the most hospitable people I've ever met in my life. Also very patient with some of my more... bone headed associates that I was on the trip with.

Interestingly enough, we were also in Singapore on that same trip, and it too was a beautiful country, with wonderful people. I'm in the U.S. Marine Corps, and this was all on a scheduled deployment. Just before we were allowed off of ship for liberty, every Marine and Sailor had to sign one of those forms. As they say in the Marine Corps, there's always that ten percent. Well, one of the Marines did not heed the information on the form and did some dumb stuff and was arrested. The ship left port without him and if I remember correctly, he may still be there.

If I tell my kid that if she does something she's not supposed to there will be disciplinary consequences, what am I to expect from her or any of my other kids if I don't follow through with the punishment?

Death penalty for drug trafficing

Translation: We really, REALLY don't want drugs in our country. So much so that we'll execute you if you bring them here. We understand that it's a harsh punishment, but we're trying to convey to you how much we don't want drugs in our country. Don't test us on this, because if we catch you...

There's really nothing to be alarmed about. Harsh or not, there are rules and there are penalties for breaking the rules. This applies in every country.

As far as the question that was posed about Amsterdam being liberal towards drugs, Singapore obviously not hold that same stance, and the similar crime rates. It seems that both outcomes are benevolent to the structure. Amsterdam has, from what I understand, really relaxed drug policies, so if lighting up isn't a crime, there's no due process. However, on the other side of the coin, if Singapore executes everyone who breaks this law, then it stands to reason that fewer and fewer people are likely to take that risk. Basically, when you have a firm stance rather than straddle the fence, it seems things work out for the good more often than not. Where as in America, you get a second and third, and fourth chance sometimes as many as you can live through. Our system provides plenty of outs for criminals.

Death penalty for rape? I think there are times when it would be appropriate. Especially since when dealing with sex offenders the vast majority are repeat offenders. Of course you have nonsensical charges at times like the poor kid in I believe Georgia who is in prison for consentual sexual acts from his girlfriend who was two years his junior. So maybe that's the line. Maybe statutory rape is the lesser of evils in the scope of rape, as it's really in the purest definition of rape, not rape. But someone who overpowers through force and violence another into sexual acts... how could anyone besides an offender themselves, NOT at least consider the death penalty for that?

So, all in all, death penalty for drugs is harsh, but not as much when the criminal is warned before hand of the consequences. The death penalty is not always appropriate, but in some instances, it seems to me that it is.

And WillJ, the fact of the matter really is that if it's illegal in a foreign country, don't do it, and there's no problem. Execution due to sexual orientation is unacceptable, there's no denying that. That would seem to me to fall into the crimes against humanity category, and should not be tolerated by the international community.