Not since Vietnam has a US president made the US military look so imcompetent

Post-9/11 Era Forum

There is now serious talk of civil war in Afghanistan. Anyone know what Bush's plan C is for the region? If the US military appears to be failing in one of the poorest countries in the world then its hardly suprising that Iran is getting its nuclear deterant sorted out, and the North Korean leadership is shouting its mouths off. Not since Vietnam has a US president managed to make the US military look so imcompetent to the world.

The solution is to kill more of the enemy.

Yeah kill more people because that has worked so far.

Agreed. We are a little too soft on the enemy.

No what we should be agreeing on is that NATO, the USA, the UK and the Afghan government have seriously f**ked up on this one it should never have got this far and idiots like sordid saying just round up a few more and kill them is not going to work. We need to do something ( an by we I mean the world) because it is getting out of hand. Surely nobody honestly belived that the warlords would not attempt to fill the power void that the Taliban had left, surely nobody belived that the Taliban had been wiped out and nobody could have possibly bloieved that the multi million herion production was going to vanish as soon as the farmers herd the magic word deomcracy. NATO and everyone just seemed to allow this to happen it is getting worse not better because if civil war does happen the the Taliban will get back an we will be back where we started.

What can one expect from an area where 80 % of the richness generated is from heroin production and trafficking ? Even the highest ranking officials are compromised.
At least the Talibans forbid the heroin production and this was somehow successful because, even an evil dictatorship, they were perceived as the depository of some religious legitimacy. Today nothing can deter warlords from making millions from traffic, then buying weapons, expanding their networks and strengthening their influence in the country. Afghanistan is a mafia state and out of this mess terrorism is thriving.

I agree that the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan is appauling and governments around the world should be doing more to help the people of both these countries, but there seems little incentive to help Bush out of the mess that he created. The US administration's attitude to all kinds of policy not just foreign wars has alienated many allies. Unfortunately Afghans and Iraqis are pawns in a far bigger game.

I don't think either situation will be resolved until Bush and his neocons are out of office.

And lets face it, governments have never been as quick to "rescue" nations in conflict situations - look at Darfur - as they have been to drop bombs. Dropping bombs and blowing things up must be more profitable and a hell of lot easier than bringing peace and stability.

So you say the Taliban prevented the heroin trade? Are you nuts? They took it over and used it as income to support their agenda.

The herion trade is not the biggest part of the problem. This is not a drug war between dealers this about a potnetial civil war breaking out and it's all our fault.

I thought they used the opium trade to suppliment their income anyway.....
To some degree I think that civil war is a concequence of our involvement. We crushed a government that had kept all these warring parties down for a very long time, and now that it is gone, they are free to do what they want, which seems to be seize power, for each and everyone. We are going to have ot assert ourselves in order for this to get back undercontrol.

Although, I feel the need to questioin what I have said...maybe it's just better to let them deal with their own issues int heir own way, no one got involved in our (the US) civil war and look at us.

If civil war does break out then the international community is going to have a big problem on thier hands. The warlord are well trained and well armed , so if NATO have to go and assert themselves then all hell is going to break loose and whil the battles are being fought there will be groups like the Taliban that see this as the perfect opportunity to try and get some power back.

I honestly don't think that letting them get on with it is aviable option after all it is us that caused the mess and we should be cleaning it up.

We are not in Afganistan to stop drug trafficing. (yet) I don't see it as priority one. This is an Afgan problem although it affects the globe, I don't see other countries jumping up to stop it. Only the complaints from you guys. Blaming America is just rediculous unless your country has done EVERYTHING it can to stop it. I'd like to see what the EU is doing to prevent heroin drug smuggling out of Afganistan. I haven't heard of the UK or france burning poppy fields or anything of the kind. What I do hear is it's Americas fault that it is on the incline.
Not that I believe it though.

Heroin traffic finances bin Laden
Why not? As a Talib I quoted in Islam Unveiled put it: "Who cares if heroin is wreaking havoc in the West? It doesn’t matter; they aren’t Muslims." From the Washington Times, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:

Osama bin Laden is using cash from the Afghanistan heroin market to finance his life on the run, paying bodyguards and buying off warlords in Pakistan, says a congressman who has visited the region.
Rep. Mark Steven Kirk, Illinois Republican, said in an interview that bin Laden's al Qaeda terror organization is reaping $28 million a year in illicit heroin sales. Some of the money is funding bin Laden's fugitive status as he pops back and forth between Pakistan's semi-autonomous tribal areas and Afghanistan's eastern mountain regions.

Mr. Kirk, who won passage of legislation in November to overhaul the U.S. terrorist rewards program, said post-September 11 initiatives have cut off the terror leader's traditional sources of money — a family fortune and Islamic charities.

"We now know al Qaeda's dominant source of funding is the illegal sale of narcotics," said Mr. Kirk, a member of the House Appropriations foreign operations subcommittee.

The congressman made an extensive fact-finding trip to Afghanistan last January, where he met with military-intelligence officials.

Mr. Kirk said that, while bin Laden has lots of allies in the Waziristan tribal lands east of Kabul, Afghanistan, he does not speak the native tongues and cannot trust everyone as his entourage moves from place to place.

"He is a foreigner in a strange land," Mr. Kirk said. "He must have money to buy off the local warlords. Operating a clandestine, heavily armed organization takes money and running narcotics is the natural way."

A Pentagon adviser on drug policy said Mr. Kirk is "on target."

"We know of individuals in Afghanistan who continue to fund al Qaeda with drug proceeds," the Pentagon adviser said.


Posted by Robert at December 6, 2004 08:06 AM | Email this entry | Print this entry

More news from the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2814861.stm

We condemn and tell Aghanistan to do something about their heroin production and trade, while at the same time shamefully carry on promoting and selling tobbaco all over the developing world.

If heroin production is causing real problems in Afghanistan then that's one thing. If it's causing problems in the West, big deal, that's our problem - Afghanistan's got better things to worry about.

What you infered was that the heroin product and distribution has gone up since the ousting of the Taliban. Correct? Basically , you are saying we are the fault of the increase in production.
That is what I interpret from your post.
It easy to interpret it this way because of all the Amerca blasting that you and H@ts normally do. You do agree with each other rather frequently.

USA1 -

Heroin production has rocketed in Afghanistan because much of the country is now being run by warlords and criminals. America did a half-baked job, didn't finish it, and left the place a mess because it was so eager to trample into Iraq.

And what are we left with? It's almost 4 years since 9/11. The guy responsible for the attack is still free, and fast becoming some kind of mythical hero to militant Muslims across the globe, and Afghanistan is according to the above report close the civil war. But of course you won't t equate any of this with Bush's failing policies.

If it has a chance to show the U.S. in bad light, rest assured the Brits are gonna print it, announce it and/or air it. What else is there to do in England?

Well NATO groeups obvioulsy have bigger things on thier mind that a herion production but what I daon't see is criticism of the Afghan government if they want to lead the country then start acting like leaders and deal with the poppy fields while we deal with trying to keep some sort of pecae.