Ratzinger a Nazi? Don't believe it

Philosophy & Religion Forum

London's Sunday Times would have us believe that one of the leading contenders for the papacy is a closet Nazi. In if-only-they-knew tones, the newspaper informs readers that German-born Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth during World War II and suggests that, because of this, the "panzer cardinal" would be quite a contrast to his predecessor, John Paul II.

The article also classifies Ratzinger as a "theological anti-Semite" for believing in Jesus so strongly that – gasp! – he thinks that everyone, even Jews, should accept him as the messiah.

To all this we should say, "This is news?!"
As the Sunday Times article admits, Ratzinger's membership in the Hitler Youth was not voluntary but compulsory; also admitted are the facts that the cardinal – only a teenager during the period in question – was the son of an anti-Nazi policeman, that he was given a dispensation from Hitler Youth activities because of his religious studies, and that he deserted the German army.

Ratzinger has several times gone on record on his supposedly "problematic" past. In the 1997 book Salt of the Earth, Ratzinger is asked whether he was ever in the Hitler Youth.

"At first we weren't," he says, speaking of himself and his older brother, "but when the compulsory Hitler Youth was introduced in 1941, my brother was obliged to join. I was still too young, but later as a seminarian, I was registered in the Hitler Youth. As soon as I was out of the seminary, I never went back. And that was difficult because the tuition reduction, which I really needed, was tied to proof of attendance at the Hitler Youth.

"Thank goodness there was a very understanding mathematics professor. He himself was a Nazi, but an honest man, and said to me, 'Just go once to get the document so we have it...' When he saw that I simply didn't want to, he said, 'I understand, I'll take care of it' and so I was able to stay free of it."

Ratzinger says this again in his own memoirs, printed in 1998. In his 2002 biography of the cardinal, John Allen, Jr. of the National Catholic Reporter wrote in detail about those events.

The only significant complaint that the Times makes against Ratzinger's wartime conduct is that he resisted quietly and passively, rather than having done something drastic enough to earn him a trip to a concentration camp. Of course, whenever it is said that a German failed the exceptional-resistance-to-the-Nazis test, it would behoove us all to recognize that too many Jews failed it, as well.

If he were truly a Nazi sympathizer, then it would undoubtedly have become evident during the past 60 years. Yet throughout his service in the church, Ratzinger has distinguished himself in the field of Jewish-Catholic relations.

As prefect of the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger played an instrumental role in the Vatican's revolutionary reconciliation with the Jews under John Paul II. He personally prepared Memory and Reconciliation, the 2000 document outlining the church's historical "errors" in its treatment of Jews. And as president of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, Ratzinger oversaw the preparation of The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible, a milestone theological explanation for the Jews' rejection of Jesus.

If that's theological anti-Semitism, then we should only be so lucky to "suffer" more of the same.

As for the Hitler Youth issue, not even Yad Vashem has considered it worthy of further investigation. Why should we?

http://www.jpost.com/

Yes a child forced to be a Hitler Youth, as all children were in Germany and person that deserted the German Army (they shot deserters at the time) were definitely true Nazi sympathizers...

Not ALL children were forced into becoming 'Hitler Youths' during Hitler's reign. Many were very rabid Nazi die-hards of their own accords. But again, they were just youths—albeit, some were younger than others.

Thank you for clearing it up Joe. Some people like Inner City like to make omnipotent Godlike statements instead of logical ones.

Remember, they had a gun to their heads. It's not like it was his decision.
I knew this would get brought up sooner or later.
I wonder what the Jewish community is thinking about this.

Sordid, CJ and others.

How can you be so gullible to believe that because a few men in scarlet vote a man in as their leader that he HAS to be a good man....just because they wear the frock?

Do a little research on some of these past "leaders" and you will see that they are not all they are cracked up to be. In fact quite the opposite.

There were 114 other men that they could have chosen and they choose a man who may very well have been a true Nazi. He has all the qualifications for Nazi, and the roman catholic press spins it to be nothing at all.

Get a clue people.

I have read up on this man all over the internet.
And the dates and times given in each of these regarding his "service" in the Nazi regime do not add up.

Face it, you now have as your leader a Nazi.
Believe what you want.
I am not surprised they chose this man, but I am surprised that it does not bother Roman Catholics...or maybe I shouldn't be. Blindly following a man who sets himself up as the "head of the church" is blasphemous enough.
A Nazi on top of that does not surprise me.

And he can spout all this false humility about how he is just a "humble poor man in the vineyard" hullaballoo all he wants.
He pretends to be Christ's "vicar", the "head of the Church", the "Holy Father" "Potentate" when he is merely a man pretending.
Christ needs no vicar, Jesus is the head of the Church, the name "Holy Father" is reserved for God, the Father, and Jesus is the only Potentate.

This Nazi one just confirms everyones suspicions of the Vatican.
And if you cannot see that....

Soon they'll be serving purple Kool Aid instead of wine.

he did leave the nazi ragem though, of his own accord ... and dont beleive everything you read in the paper, esspecially arround election time in britain

sowhatsthetruth knows it all. You can't pull the wool over the eyes of this unhappy camper, so don't even try. She be judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one bad mother… package. You go girl.

Main Entry: mal·con·tent
Pronunciation: "mal-k&n-'tent
Function: noun
: a discontented person: a : one who bears a grudge from a sense of grievance or thwarted ambition b : one who is in active opposition to an established order or government: REBEL

Its better to hate then to love? Since when?

I am sorry I will not debate this issue with someone who knows everything and nothing.

Lets all believe the MEDIA and their tabloiditis. Thats what intelligent persons do. NOT!!!!

D

This is all in the past, what exactly is Ratzingers crime did he gas the Jews? did he torture POWs? was he a double agent?
No he commited that most vile of crimes of being forced to join an organisation if he did not his family may have suffred the consquences.
As for the Nazi youth and it's memebers if what some people are saying is true then there must be a whole generation of Germans that are anti semetic if that is true I have never seen it, remeber what happend to the older memebers of the Nazi youth at the end of WW2 and what they saw first hand no doubt that fixed them.

Yeah.

This guy IS the perfect one for this time period remaining.

He'll conjure up more hatred for America than H@ts, scottc, Preston, or any other anti American Europist on the board. Anyone see Bill O tonight? Where a priest declared that Ratszinger will call Bush to the carpet and MAKE him decriminalize abortion? Just this very attempt will wreak havoc on America. This panzer, "god's rottweiler" will attempt to bring America to her knees. And CJ, if this is a man after your own heart, you are very confused indeed.

I don't care what the media says...Delta seems to think the media is against this Nazi. Quite the contrary. Even jpost is in on the action.

Read the book Vatican Assassins....read the Bible....I don't know it all....but God has outlined it all in the Bible for anyone to plainly see and discern who is this Mr. Scarlet panzer zinger of Rats!

God isn't exactly content with all this evil in the world and neither am I.
But He's Holy and Majestic and to His son Jesus be all the praise, honor, and glory.....!!!!!

I think the Catholic church have made a huge mistake giving the top job to anyone who even vaguely had anything to do with the Nazi party. How's this guy going to keep a straight face and condemn homosexuals - that was one of Hitlers policies.

Saying that, going by church attendances and the difficulty in employing priests, does anyone but a small minority in the West take any notice of the Catholic church anymore? Doesn't appear that way to me. Explains why the Church had followed the tobacco giants strategy and sents it's storm troopers out into the developing world, where the heathens could do with a good dose of guilt, no doubt.

pope benidict and his family were FORCED to join the nazi's ... and they left the first oppertunity they had, everyone at the time was forced to join, and diserters were shot

EGADS<GADZOOKS......POPPY ****(ROOSTER)

d

Hitler also gassed many homosexuals (pink triangle) and gypsies and disabled.

Hitler used the homosexuals at the beginning for his purposes and then fried them. This had little to do with public opinion. The man had no care for anyone else's "opinion." He wasn't a pleasant fellow. And I can't imagine his "youth" were any different.

I've wanted to state my views against homosexuality but the previous thread was closed.


In the Catholic religion, the faithful follow Christ. It could be a steep and uphill climb or serious struggle for many to change into the image of holiness. Nonetheless, the faithful must persevere in faith rather than give up so easily, citing excuses from being a victim of the environment to genetics.

What is wrong is to lower the standards Christ set for men to follow simply because many view false sexuality as a common desire or weakness. I think that would be a “guilty” attitude. If in your heart, a wrong is justified as right or correct, then that is the state of being guilty. Those who confess to wrong doing is in the right with God but those who refuse to be corrected or those who refuse to admit to mistakes is guilty.


So if you’re a defiant homosexual and wants to change the whole CHURCH to accept your weakness, then that is being guilt for me. However, anyone who accuses himself and is repentant that he is a sinner is on the right with God. In the Gospels, a similar question was asked by Jesus to the crowd, who was initially made to choose between the Pharisee who thought himself blameless for temple ritual, and the tax collector who confessed he was a sinner and unworthy, but repentant. Jesus concluded that the tax collector or sinner went home justified.

All of us are sinners, is there anyone here claiming otherwise?

we will just have to wait and see what the new pope does, wont we. I think we just have to cope till he dies (is that how it works? can he be voted out of being pope by the cardinals, or is he pope for life?)

I agree Flying Panda... the end of something is better than the start... let us refrain from judging in the meantime. I'm hoping for the best for the new pope.

New pope hailed for strong Jewish ties

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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...7273080&apage=1

More "befriending"...

and then:

the ending...

No, T I won't bite!!! Even if steam is pouring out my ears at your duplicity of Christian Behavior. It saddens me and I will pray for you.

D

E

I am not a Roman Catholic and never will be. This man is NOT my leader and never will be. The Vatican and all their winebibbery, power and whore mongering does not appeal to me.
Just because I do not buy into man's tradition and scoff at man's tradition does not mean I am in duplicity with the teachings of Christ.
It means I am not a follower of man's pagan version of Christendom.

I pray for you.

It is a Christian concept..., "Judge not, lest be judged." Our friend SWTT here had confessed of unfaithfulness in the past but how come this hard stance against someone who may just "appear" to be a NAZI? Pope Benedict XVI was ordained a priest after the war. He changed as many Germans had. Our new pope advocates faithfulness rather than liberal cooperation with the desires and dictates of the modern times.

Furthermore, he is credited for going against liberation theology, the current temptation of priests for independence and militant political role playing. The Pope is the vicar of Christ; as Peter's successor, the pope cannot be independent in matters of the faith but must protect its integrity in its original intentions, as it is found in the Gospels.

Like the different socialist fervor that swept Europe, leading to WW2, liberation theology is a potential problem similar to Marxism during the last century. Instead of invoking the holy spirit to renew the face of the Earth, liberation theology skips God and puts all control and responsibility to humans to effect CHANGES. Ask a theological supporter where his cross is and prepare to realize that he wields a tight fist, ready to violently strike his perceived opponents down.

The problem isn't just the covert way to attain justice but the poor perception of who are the real opponents. The world would suffer much if this theology is pursued because in the guise of following the WIll of God, many would prepare to abandon their crosses and take arms instead. Probably SWTT, our friend is a believer of the new theology?

What do you care SWTT, does the RCC or its Pope have power over you? Are you haunted by the thought you'd pay for your sins on Earth?

but didnt you, just a few posts ago say you are not roman catholic, and benerdict the XVI is not your pope ... rejection your your faith if ever there was one.

Has the new pope accually stated that he wants everyone in the RCC to become nazi's ... or hold hands with al the other faiths, and imbrace them?

Your apprehensions about the RCC is unfounded since you're not even baptized Catholic. I am. For a while, this idea of control over the laity seems valid but care to look more deeply, that normally does not happen unless you subject yourself voluntarily to church organizations. In any kind of organization, there is the risk of mismanagement and political affiliations that divides and weakens order.

My suggestion is help yourself with Catholic teachings and inspirations but keep yourself wise and clear headed about the church organization itself. The pope is there precisely to prevent collapse of order in the church due to differences in opinion, styles and languages. In a market economy, it is caveat emptor - so make sure you keep away from intermediaries who have other agendas in mind.

Blame yourself not others if you got fooled. Eventually only the Holy Spirit would make a person right and justified, not the opinions of men, however collectively uniform or unanimous they are.

Keep yourself holy. Be self-absorbed in prayers and in your duties in Christian life. In the end, you'd be judged in what you do or say, not in what others think of you. Seek always the approval of God and not of men.

My grandmother is Roman Catholic.
I have seen how the RCC has tried to keep her in the dark regarding the truth found in the scriptures. She was raised in a RC orphanage and knows the harsh brutality of the nuns firsthand.
She did not even own a Bible until she was in her 70's and that was because I bought them for her.
She did not learn the truth of Jesus and His saving work on the cross from the RCC. She learned the truth from her Protestant friends who continually witnessed to her.

And come to find out, my parents checked into her lineage for a legal reason....and she is a Russian Jew!
Her parents emigrated from Russia via Poland. They changed their name to Wagner and pretended to convert to RC. They did this to forego persecution by the RC faction of Jew haters.
And then when her father put her and 8 other siblings in an orphanage when her Mom died, the children grew up completely unaware of the Jewish heritage!

As for your suggestions, though touching they are, I will stick to Bible admonishments. Because I cannot "keep myself holy." That is the work of the Holy Spirit. All I can do is yield to the Holy Spirit and he will do the work. Conviction of any sins will come through Him and He alone will deal with me. Judge myself first and I will not need public humiliation:
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 1 Co 11:31

And Tvee, I made an attempt of learning the RCC doctrine when I was searching for the truth.
I called the parish, spoke with a nun and she set up a private tutoring instruction with a priest.
I really could not concentrate on what he was saying because during every session he had these dogs that continually humped on his leg...I am telling the truth. He kept saying good dog good dog while these dogs proceeded in their disgusting actions.

So, you see tvee, I did make an attempt early on in my adulthood to discover the RCC teachings, and my experience digusted me to the max...

The approval of God and not man?.....obviously by discussing with you RC diehards, that doesn't seem to be an issue.

I agree that the Jesus ios the "head of the church" ... the pope is ment to represent "Paul" ... who jesus said he would be the rock on which his church will be founded, or something like that. and that all the popes were ment to be related to paul hoimself (i heard, but dont know if the first load were accually decendates of paul ... im not a bible basher, so i wouldnt know (no offence to anyone))

Tnt. it was Peter that Jesus said that too.
Stay away from persons who portend to be Christians yet spew out all kinds of anti Christian behavior.

Stay out of this , You are well meaning but SWTT knocks you off like a gnat.

Say what you want but be prepared for her.

D

I went to Chapel to day in front of the Holy God and I spent my time praying for you T
Everything in yourloife has been so f'd up its a shame.

We are supposed to extend our hands to one another in Peace not in violence.


Jesus whom you believe in ,always said treat your neighbor as your self didn't he?
You are on this board yelling and screaming your faith. Jesus was humble ,and whom offered us the path to Redemption. Kindness Kindness not swearing about others Mode of getting to him.

You need to go back to the Scriptures and re read his words. Sad. T.

I love you Friend
D

D

Violence?

Have you read how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees? Why exactly do you think they crucified Him? He didn't lift a hand or sword against the religious hierarchy of His day. His words of truth cut them to the core. Read Matthew 23.
"I came not of peace but of the sword." Jesus said he would separate family member against family member to insure that we would love Him above anyone else.
All of my discussion has been pointed at the Vatican and the hierarchy.
It's not pointed at any of you.

Thanks for your prayers.
I love you too, very sincerely and deeply.
We have prayer tonight. You are always in them. Corporate prayer, all of us pray for you.

Inside Information on The New Popes softer side

In German town, Benedict XVI known for love of cats, conversation By Matthew Schofield, Knight Ridder Newspapers
Thu Apr 21, 6:20 PM ET



REGENSBURG, Germany - When he was a cardinal, Pope Benedict XVI often delivered sermons at the German-language church in Campasanto Teutonico near St. Peter's Basilica, but his most heartfelt talks may have been the ones he gave after celebrating Mass.



"I went with him once," said Konrad Baumgartner, the head of the theology department at Regensburg University. "Afterwards, he went into the old cemetery behind the church.

"It was full of cats, and when he went out, they all ran to him. They knew him and loved him. He stood there, petting some and talking to them, for quite a long time. He visited the cats whenever he visited the church. His love for cats is quite famous."

Although his public image is that of a stern enforcer of church doctrine, in Regensburg, where the 78-year-old pope came into his own as a theologian, those who know the man known as "God's Rottweiler" say his soft, human side has been ignored.

The pope loves cats, can't resist Christmas cookies and, three months ago, waxed on about how he dreamed of retiring from the hectic life at the Vatican to enjoy his last years reading, writing and talking with friends.

His brother Georg still lives in Regensburg and is Benedict's strongest connection to the town he left for Munich when he became archbishop. Georg Ratzinger, also ordained in the church, spent decades as the musical director of the famous Regensburger Domspatzen boys' choir. He lives down a twisting cobbled street from the towering Gothic Regensburg Cathedral.

"The totally wrong picture is painted of my brother," he said Thursday in a dining room decorated with iconic art and photos and letters from Pope John Paul II. "He's a cheerful man, friendly. But he does have principles that he will stand for."

In fact, Ratzinger believes that instead of being divisive, Benedict will build bridges - "though there are limits."

He bridled at how some members of the English press have treated his brother. One paper ran a headline saying "From Hitler Youth to Papa Ratzi," but Ratzinger said all boys were forced to join the Hitler Youth and that his brother was never a Nazi.

"In our family, we were taught they were evil," he said.

His brother's interests included music, Ratzinger said. "He played the organ quite well, but he hasn't played for years now."

When he was younger, Benedict XVI hiked in the Tyrol mountains to relax. As he grew older and had less time and energy, he tended the magnolia tree outside his house, cleaned the fountain under the statue of Mary and thinned out the ivy.

Agnes Heindl has been Georg Ratzinger's housekeeper for 10 years, and she's come to know the new pope well.

She said she often drove then-Cardinal Ratzinger to his house after the brothers had shared Sunday dinner. His favorite foods were Weisswurst - the traditional white Bavarian sausage - and anything sweet. She said he's known for trying every type of Christmas cookie at a party.

"Oh, he could just talk about anything, really," she said. "He liked to talk about friends and how people he knew were doing. He's a very pleasant man to have a conversation with."

She clutched 16 Benedict roses, white, as she talked.

"Maybe if I can't get the flowers to him, someone will take a picture of them, and he'll see that we're thinking of him," she said.

She spoke with him again this week. He called on Wednesday morning, after getting busy signals at his brother's house Tuesday night. When she answered, a well-known voice said: "Can I please speak to my brother."

"The Holy Father called, and all I could do was stammer, `So how do I address you now?' He laughed," she said.

She said she's glad she heard him laugh. His new job isn't easy, and he'll need to laugh. She said that when he was relaxing, there was never a mystery about what would make him laugh.

"Oh, cats," she said. " He loves them."

She pointed up a staircase to a wall full of painted plates, each depicting a different cat. The brothers collected the plates together, she said.

"When we were on vacation, a cat, a little kitten, would come by, and he'd be giddy, almost giggling with joy," she said." Cats love him; they always go to him straight away. And he loves them back."

He doesn't have a cat, however. Heindl doesn't think he can have one living in the Vatican.

"He was always content to play with the street cats," she said. "I don't know much about Rome, but I know there's no shortage of cats there."

Benedict still owns the house he bought on the edge of Regensburg in 1970, but he visits only a couple times a year. The city adjusted his deed this week: It now lists the owner as "Holy Father."

On Thursday afternoon, Chico the cat - perhaps the closest thing there is to The Pope's Cat, strolled from the shaded arch between the pope's front door and his garage. Chico belongs to Rupert Hofbauer, who looks after Benedict's garden and home.

"Chico is his friend, though he scratched him over Christmas because he didn't want to go outside, all day or night, and the cardinal tried to put him out," Hofbauer said. "They usually get along well, though."

Hofbauer and many others in Regensburg, where the new pope remains on the faculty rolls, shared mixed emotions, pride and sorrow, when they heard the news. Georg Ratzinger said he almost feels as if he's lost his brother, knowing that it won't be easy to see him now.

"I thought he'd retire soon, and we would finally have a lot of time to finish all the talks we've started through the years. We talked about that, just this Christmas when he was home," Hofbauer said.

"He thought it sounded nice, to retire, to take it easy. That's not how it worked out though, is it?"

How in the world can I not like the man after this post?
Shame on me.

I have been posting all over the internet on different boards about this man...getting hit over the head by Jesuits...and now this comes out.
It's simple. They profiled me and found out my weakness....CATS!!!!

ROTFLMAO Too much T.

D

Cats why cats? surely a man called the rottweiler would prefer big dogs.

Though it is nice to see the private side of the pope. what I would like is to find comments from somebody who was with him the Hitler youth and find out how serioulsy he took being in that organisation.

apparently lots of jernalists have moved into his home town in germany hoping for an interview with or about the new pope

Interesting...