Death Penalty Use More Against Blacks

Agree2Disagree Forum

Death penalty is modern day lynching

Stats from Death Penlty Info Center show that this country executes its citizens based on 3 questions: What color are you?
What color was your victim? and How much money do you have?

Blacks are 63 times more likey to receive death penalty than white

Blacks are 13& of pop but are 40% of almost 3000 death inmates

Since reinstatement over 20 years, only 1 white person has been executed for killing a Black!

picking cotten is the only thing my generation hasn't experienced

That's a good question. But you're not through with your research that's why you don't have the answer for it yet. Now check what proportion black convicted criminals constitute to the whole number of the convicted criminals in the USA.

Don't be quick with your conclusions.

Barbed. Exactly.
You can get this information from your local criminal justice.
The proportion of Blacks, Hispanics out weigh the whites in this catagory.
Minorities are much more likely because of the family life style, education and geographical locations.

I don't buy the "White man keeping us down" thing. Opportinuties abound here for anyone who wants them regardless of race or location.

So, with USA's post(thank you! )we've come to the next point. Larger proportion of non-White criminals is more likely due to their social circumstances (cultural habits, poverty cause lack of education that causes lesser opportunities that cause poverty again).

Climbing to a higher social position requires effort e.g. becoming a middle-class man for a poor man, becoming a rich one for a middle-class man.

But for a poor youth criminal career may look attractive because it looks easier - no effort needed. Nevertheless, criminals tend to be caught and convicted, sooner or later.

Hmmmmmm....

Texas........

malcolm xx said this in post #5 :

Is death penalty bias against Blacks?

No.

should it be gone?
Use of death penalty may be restricted but not banned.

Resticted for example to the cases when 1)the convicted is convicted by good direct evidence (like 10 people say they saw the convicted commiting murder) or 2) three consecutive crimes that may be punished with death: murder->jail->murder->jail->murder->death.

And this has WHAT to do with Terrorism. Thread being moved.

Oh and your statistics are a little off,

Of persons executed in 2003:
-- 41 were white
-- 20 were black
-- 3 were Hispanic (all white)
-- 1 American Indian


Of those executed in 2003:
-- 65 were men


Lethal injection accounted for 64 of the executions; 1 was carried out by electrocution.


Thirty-eight States and the Federal government in 2003 had capital statutes.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm

Of persons under sentence of death in 2003:
-- 1,878 were white
-- 1,418 were black
-- 29 were American Indian
-- 35 were Asian
-- 14 were of unknown race.


Forty-seven women were under a sentence of death.


The 369 Hispanic inmates under sentence of death accounted for 12% of inmates with a known ethnicity.


Among inmates under sentence of death and with available criminal histories:
-- nearly 2 in 3 had a prior felony conviction
-- about 1 in 12 had a prior homicide conviction.


Among persons for whom arrest information was available, the average age at time of arrest was 28; 2% of inmates were age 17 or younger.


At yearend, the youngest inmate under sentence of death was 19; the oldest was 88.

2002

Of the 69 men and two women put to death last year, 53 were white and 18 black. Six were Hispanics, all of whom were white. They had been on death row an average of 10 years and 7 months, which was 15 months less than those executed in 2001. Seventy of these individuals were executed by lethal injection and one by electrocution.

2001

Sixty-three men and 3 women were put to death during 2001. Forty-eight of them were white, 17 were black and 1 was an American Indian. Three were Hispanics, all of whom were white. They had been on death row an average of 11 years and 10 months, which was 5 months longer than those executed during 2000. All were executed by lethal injection.

2000

Those executed during 2000 included 49 whites, of which 6 were white Hispanics; 35 blacks and 1 American Indian. Eighty of the executions were by lethal injection and 5 by electrocution. Twenty-one states authorized lethal injections in 1990, which increased to 36 states by 2000.

1999

BJS reported that at the end of last year 1,948 white
prisoners were under a death sentence, 1,514 blacks, 28
American Indians, 24 Asians and 13 with other backgrounds.
Fifty women were under a death sentence in 1999

However what goes along with these statistics is the fact that on average whites conduct 70% more hate crimes than blacks do. As of 2002.

In 2003--

Overall, when comparing whites, blacks, and all persons of other races, blacks had the highest violent crime victimization rates.

Per every 1,000 persons in that racial group, 29 blacks, 22 whites and 16 persons of others races sustained a violent crime.
Black and white persons experienced statistically similar rates of simple assault.
Black, white, and other races experienced similarly rates of rape/sexual assault.
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2002 about 49% of murder victims were white, 49% were black, and 3% were Asians, Pacific Islander, and Native Americans.

On average each year between 1993 and 1998, homicide rates fell 5% for whites, 7% for blacks, and 8% for persons of other races.

Blacks experience the highest rates of serious violent crime.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/race.gif

Line chart illustrating serious violent crime rates for black and white persons age 12 and older, 1973-2003. Whites have historically had substantially lower serious violent crime rates than blacks. Throughout the period of 1973 to 2003, white victimization rates have declined steadily. Black victimization rates have demonstrated greater variation between 1973 and 1993. Since 1994, the victimization rate of blacks has steadily declined to its current rate of 13 per 1,000 persons -- the lowest ever recorded by the NCVS .

From 1976 to 2002 --

86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ovrace.gif

Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders
Blacks were 6 times more likely than whites to be murdered in 2002
Blacks were 7 times more likely than whites to commit homicide in 2002

For the years 1976-2002 combined -

Black victims are greatly over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.

Information above obtained from

U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov

Bush has " Texecuted" 159 people !

How many were innocent

What? Now wait a second Malcom. I thought your whole argument was that the death penalty was "tha man" killing off the colored folks...but now its Bush executing innocents? Which is it? And what praytell is your definition of innocent? Would that be A) They were crazy, B) It was a conspiracy or C) They grew up poor so its not their fault.

I think its humerous that certain people on this thread are blaming Bush for people being on death row.

First off, yes, he was governor of Texas, and they have the death penalty....

Do you people think Texas is the only state that executes people?

Secondly, I dont doubt that there are people sitting on death row that are possibly innocent...(that doesnt happen just to blacks...its happens to other races as well).

Many people have been freed thanks to DNA testing...

Lets not forget people....99 percent of the scum on death row...are on death row because they are GUILTY!

Hmm, Ron, I think some objectivity needs to be introduced to your stats. Since 1976, 34% of the defendants executed in the US were black, compared to 58% white. (Hmm, are 34% of the US population black???). 14% of victims have been black, compared with 81% white. Of the interracial murders punished by death sentence, just 12 white people have been sentenced to death for killing a black person, compared to 183 black people sentenced to death for killing a white person. The current death row population consists of 41.8% black, 10.3% hispanic, 45.6% white, and 2.3% other. It can also be stated that they are pretty much 100% poor. Bear in mind that between 12 and 15 percent of America is black. So for 41.8% of death row to be black is a little telling as to the tendancy of judges to send a black guy to death row. If you try to suggest that as a median, a black guy is 4 times more likely to kill someone than a white guy, I would suggest you would be best off living in apartheid south africa.

The simple fact is that the death penalty is ONLY EVER given to poor people that cannot afford a decent lawyer. Now it could be argued that the disparity between black and white is due to the inherent fact that black guys are generally poorer than white guys, (due to the basic racism that exists within American corporate society). Why should someone be executed for a crime that someone who did exactly the same crime but has more money, does not? The answer is that the problem is the death penalty itself. The USA is the only western nation that murders its people. The USA is 5th in world executions, behind those bastions of freedom, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Vietnam. Are you happy to be among such company? These 5 nations account for 97% of world executions. Maybe the time has come for the US to join in a coalition of murderers with Iran, China, Saudi and Vietnam!

The death penalty does not work. In states that have banned, then allowed, (or the other way around), the death sentence, there has either been no change, or a slight increase in murder rate when the death penalty has been allowed. The death penalty costs more than life without parole, (meaning these evil murderers are costing tax payers more money by being murdered). Texas, the biggest murderers of them all, are not allowed to reccomend life without parole as an option. Remember, when a miscarriage of justice has been commited, (which I am sure, left and right do not want to see), if the guy is on life without parole, he can be released. If he has been murdered, he cannot. The state needs to live with the fact that they have murdered an innocent person.

If the state says murder is wrong, how can it murder people? This is hypocrisy of the highest order, and if you want to build a society that says murder is wrong, STOP MURDERING PEOPLE!!!

Nice to see someone actually look up some facts. Now I get to poke holes.

I don't want my tax money to go to supporting a murdrer in prison. Call me a conservative fascist if you must I dun care. And no I'm not rich.

I think you should have to pay your own way in prison. You shouldn't get to spend your life living rent and board free after comitting a crime.

Maybe they can spend their time making wicker baskets and selling them through Ebay. If a basket ends up looking like the Brainless Scarecrow, they'll make a fortune off it.

Some states have the prisoners making auto license plates.

Then we get to pay for them. http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap2.gif

History forgotten or never learned:


Supreme Court (1972) "strucked down" the death penalty by a 5 -4 vote. This is when Court was sane.

" Marshall was opossesd to the penalty in any form. It seemed a penaly designed for POOr and the undereducated. The rich and well-educated were rarely sentenced to death . They hired fancy lawyers.."

Can't argue with facts:


" I don't think my case is exceptional. I just live to tell about it.... Any time the Government has all the resources ( republicans) and you have none, going to be in deep trouble. If your BLACK you're in deeper trouble, particularly if the victim is white" Joseph Brown ( lost 14 years of his life)


If you want to punish people, mistakes will be made, and some people will be executed who are innocent" Dr. Ernnest Haag of Fordham uninversity


Illinois has moratorium

Bush "texecuted" a retarded women

Utah (mormon country) executes by firing squad. And this state suppose to be devine

Mystic your reply doesnt answer the question and your logic shows your ignorance of BLACKS suffering. Pickup a history book.

Constitution says that SLAVERY is only abolished except in the case of imprisonment.(13 admenment)

Cooperations are taking advantage of this for cheap labor.

Actually, malcolm, I thought that Mystic's post was a very good one. It does answer the question about whether she would advise "Now" for jews, because she shows that her father didn't ask for anything, and also she makes mention that he wasn't in the camps, so what right does he have to any reparations or to live in the past that didn't affect him personally in relation to him having to personally endure the horrors of the holocaust.

She also says that blacks like Denzel don't ask for handouts, and they've succeeded in life, so why should others who just aren't doing what's necessary?

Admittedly, she might not realize just how much of an issue discrimination specifically against blacks still is in today's society, but she does make a sound argument otherwise. I applaud her response.

Malcolm,
Stop wallowing in pity.
Stop whining and complaining.
Stop blaming others for your problems. Especially others who are dead by now.

Buck up.
Grow up.
Take responsibility for your actions.

My buddy Vic who I've been business partners with throughout the years is Black and I asked him once why he isn't whining and complaining like some Blacks do about the injustice of the White man.

He said, "Any injustice I have experienced in my life has made me stronger, better, smarter...if I sat around complaining about it, I wouldn't be near where I am today. It's made me become the best in whatever I take on. I've had to work harder than most, but in the end I am better at my craft than those who were handed the trade on a silver platter. And people recognize that in the long run."

There is a person in every race who has been discriminated against before. People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton benefit from the victim card, just like people in white robes benefit from white supremacy. Instead of being members of groups we should all be individuals. As far as the death penalty goes one is more likely to receive it if he is poor. I don't believe it has anything to do with race ninety percent of the time.

^^He is pretty much right. It has been proven by studies, aka statistics show, that more blacks and poors will receive the death penalty than people who do not fit in those catagories, there has some work to be done, but without sounding like a biggot myself, I think that some of that signifiacance is because of the over-representation of those classes in crime as a whole.

Maybe it's more to do with the culture that is pervasive within poor ethnic regions... Is the death penalty really used MOST against blacks THROUGHOUT the states, or is it used MOST against minorities? I mean, if minorities make up 70 % of the US prison population, wouldn't it be expected that they would see more of the death penalty than whatever other race you're comparing the statistics to?

You're right. Simply being arrested doesn't do it. It depends on what someone is arrested FOR, and THAT can be statistically looked into. More violent crimes tend to be committed by people who are poor and come from troubled areas were poverty is prevalent.

Also, we're trying to look at large numbers, which is what was being looked at when this thread began. If a large number of people from a specific demographic (poor ethnic) find themselves committing the majority of crimes and being arrested most often, then it would make logical sense for the majority of people sentenced to the death penalty would be of that very demographic. Whether it is or isn't a conspiracy, I can't be sure of. I was just stating that there are other possibilities as well to consider.

Don't take it personal Mystic, if you check Malcolm's threads, most if not all of them manage to bring up "the Jews" at some point or the other.


Which is a shame, he would get a lot more responses to some of his claims if he quit bringing up "the Jews" in all these threads.


It's a silly distraction, it draws the mind away from the main point of his posts about racism, etc.


My advice: You can't fight racism with racism. Well, you can, but it makes people ignore your arguments, because all they see is the inflammatory stuff.


Here's an example: I like Hitler so much, he was so cool, lets give money to aids victims in his name.


How many donations can someone get with a sales pitch like that? No one is even thinking about the aids victims, all they see is the Hitler stuff.


It's the same in these Malcolm threads I think, Malcolm brings up some legitimate points, then ruins it by bringing up "the Jews".

I don't think it helps to lie about racism for this reason: if one really is discriminated against because of their race most people will not believe it in the future.

If I lie and accuse someone of molesting a child it's slander. But if a person lies about racism it's not considered slander. This makes no sense. It should be a federal crime to lie about racism. I just had a thought - what if Malcom becomes a victim of racial discrimination someday? Who on this forum will believe him?

I dont know...I do think that he may have experienced some or someone he cares about has...if not, this might not be a subject so close to his heart.

But with that said, there are people that do use discrimination to when they never experienced it so that they can benefit from it somehow.

I dont know if this is applicable to Malcolm or not nor will I ever know. I dont know him.

White people arent the only people who hate though...There are blacks that hate Whites and Latinos, Latinos that hate Whites and Blacks, Whites that hate Latinos and Blacks...and this is just THREE examples...I could add many more with religion involved as well...its a never ending list..as sad as that is.

Hate doesnt just apply to white people...its more prevalent because of past history, but with the diverse cultures we have today, many races are discriminatory towards other races...it no longer applies just to Whites only.

Malcolm could be the victim of stinkin' thinkin' so prevalent in Black leaders today.

They ram the thought of whites need to make reparations into their brains so hard and so fast that pretty soon people buy into the crap.

This can be said about misogynists and man haters too for various other reasons.

I know a jamaican lady, who's lived here in Canada since she was about 15 years old. She's now almost 50. She seems to think that whenever somebody of a different race doesn't treat her as well as she'd expect them to, they are being 'racist'... But on the flip side, she'll speak to people like africans in a condescending fashion, and when they get upset and give some of the rudeness back to her, she will tell them, TO THIER FACE, that they are refugees and need to go back to their continent..........

How's THAT for discrimination....

I dunno, I tend to give people the benifit of the doubt, if they say they have a rough time.

I have a hard time with "authority" sometimes, and I fit in,

I can only imagine what minoritys are thinking.

Because they don't know if it's true discrimination or just normal life experience that is happening to them.

Interesting that Malcolm has yet to come in here and answer my question...

Which bring me to this.....

Is this the type of reparations you look for? Again, if this isnt what you want, then what is it? Just looking for specifics.

Klansman given 60 years for Mississippi killings

By Kyle Carter
Thu Jun 23, 4:49 PM ET

PHILADELPHIA, Miss. (Reuters) - Elderly former Ku Klux Klansman Edgar Ray Killen was sentenced on Thursday to 60 years in prison for the 1964 killing of three civil rights workers, the notorious crime that galvanized the civil rights movement and inspired the 1988 movie "Mississippi Burning."

Killen wore a yellow prison jumpsuit and showed no emotion as Circuit Judge Marcus Gordon handed down the maximum sentence, a punishment likely to keep the 80-year-old former Baptist preacher locked up alone for the rest of his life.

Killen, convicted on three counts of felony manslaughter by a multiracial jury on Tuesday, was wheeled forward to face the judge. He has used a wheel chair since breaking both legs in a tree-cutting accident in March and sometimes breathes with the aid of an oxygen tube.

Gordon said he took no pleasure in imposing what amounted to a life term but that the law made no distinction based on the age of the convicted. He sentenced Killen to 20 years for each killing.

"Each life has value," the judge said. "There were three lives involved in this case and the three lives should absolutely be respected and treated equally."

After a short trial evoking memories of the brutal racial violence of the era, the jury found Killen organized a posse to kidnap, beat and shoot Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney and bulldoze their bodies under an earthen dam.

The jury cleared him of the more serious charge of murder. Schwerner and Goodman, white New Yorkers, and Chaney, a black Mississippian, were helping blacks register to vote during the Freedom Summer civil rights campaign when they were killed on June 21, 1964.

Killen did not testify in his trial in Philadelphia, a Mississippi town with a population of just 7,000.

"He should have got 100 years on each count for the things that he did," said Doris Wells, an elderly black resident of the county who listened to the sentencing in court.

Killen's attorney, James McIntyre, said he would appeal the verdict and challenge the judge's instruction to the jury to consider manslaughter if they could not agree on the murder charges.

Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood, who was 2 years old when the crime he prosecuted was committed, said he was not surprised by the sentence.

"I think the judge saw the evidence was there for a murder conviction as well," he told Court TV, noting evidence that the prosecutors had not been able to bring to the trial.

Hood said that because of parole rules in the state, Killen had received a tougher punishment with a 60-year sentence -- eligible for parole only after 20 years -- than with a life sentence, which at his age would have made him eligible for parole after 10 years.

JUDGE 'GOT IT RIGHT'

Rita Bender, widow of Michael Schwerner, said of the sentencing that the judge "got it right. Every human life has value, every human life has equal value. That means these three men's lives had value."

But Bender said the conviction and sentencing did not close the book on the crimes of the civil rights era.

"There are many violent crimes that have never been brought to justice. The reality is that what happened today is just the beginning," she said on Court TV.

This prosecution was the latest in a string of such cases. Civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center said that since 1989, authorities in seven states have reexamined 29 killings from the civil rights era. They have made 27 arrests, which have led to 21 convictions, not counting this case. Several life sentences have been handed down.

If authorities have re-opened such cases in recent years, it is partly because of a generational change among prosecutors and district attorneys, Heidi Beirich, a spokeswoman for the center, said earlier this week.

Killen was among a group of men tried in 1967 for violating the civil rights of Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney. Seven co-defendants were convicted by the all-white jury and served up to six years in prison but Killen's trial ended in a hung jury after a lone holdout said she could never convict a preacher.

Killen will be held alone in an isolated cell under a protective status for prisoners at risk of retaliation from other inmates.

"It's kind of a race issue, in that our (prison) population is 70 percent black," Mississippi Department of Corrections Commissioner Chris Epps said.

One thing I do know, back in 1921, in the Tulsa race war, there were no Jews around to blame for it.

Why wont Malcolm answer my questions?

Malcolm...what are YOU looking for in reparations for this action that happened in 1921? Again, I can see how the families of the people killed would like something in return for what happened...but tell me what YOU want!

You keep going on about things that happened so very long ago...but you have yet to tell anyone what you want them to do or what you want.

So please, enlighten us...tell us what you want!

They just convicted this guy for what he did in the Mississippi killings...is this what you are looking for? Other than that...I cant figure out for the life of me what it is you want from people.

As long as you keep going on about things without answering the questions, then Im sorry...I just think you yell just to yell...if you have no answers on what you think should be done, then how are we supposed to have answers?

Give us some feedback already.

Malcolm

If every white man woman and child made a public apology to the Blacks for past treatment by white ancestors and modern hardships...and made monetary and other reparations....

would you have it in your heart to forgive us....or would you continue to rub it in our faces until the day we died?

Think about it.
Think about that hard.

also keep in mind: a LOT of white folks in this country never owned slaves. Many were opposed to slavery.

Yes, like me.
I have never owned a slave.
And I don't plan on owning one either....the upkeep is just too exorbitant...besides, years later they will hound my children (if I had any) for reparations.

Too messy.

But I am a white slave.
I have to go to work MON-FRI or I do not have a place to live.
So, I want to know where the hell are my reparations for such an injustice, HUH???

I wasn't speaking for you, I was speaking to you...

What is california the largest state of? I coulda sworn that title went to Texas...

I think that the idea of reparations is to offer blacks the opportunity to gain some level of equality in "people power" throughout america.

Thing is, affirmative action was, in a sense, trying to do just that.

I think that reparations might not be the answer. I don't HAVE the answer, but I'm not sure that reparations is it. I think that helping the black community up isn't a bad thing, but it's got to be handled delicately because there will be people who are on the short end of that stick (perhaps whites who are now being persecuted because of "reparations", even though they had no say in slavery because it happened so long ago...). Wrongs committed against one people can't be made right by doing wrong to another people. Not in this type of situation, where there are so many individuals involved.

There's got to be another way.

But then the question needs to be asked: when is enough, ENOUGH?

Alaska is the biggest state in terms of land area (Texas is second)

California is biggest in terms of popluation.