Vile France: Fear, Duplicity, Cowardice and Cheese

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Nearly twelve years ago, in an effort to gather French public support for the Maastricht Treaty, President François Mitterrand famously said, “We are at war with America.” And America, along with the rest of the world, laughed but otherwise paid little attention to this comment at the time. More recently, however, French anti-Americanism has gotten our attention and caused an equal and opposite reaction. As Denis Boyles writes in the introduction to Vile France, “What we mistakenly see as a craven, anti-Semitic, hypocritical, hysterically anti-American, selfish, overtaxed, culturally exhausted country bereft of ideas, fearful of its own capitulation to fundamentalist Islam, headed for a demographic cul de sac, corrupted by lame ideologies, crippled by a spirit-stomping social elite and up to its neck in a cheesy soufflé of multilayered bureaucracy is actually worse than all that. It’s vile.”

In this bitingly funny and insightful polemic, Boyles, who has lived and worked in France for several years, examines the internal crises—a falling birthrate, an expanding Muslim minority, economic stagnation, a lessening of international prestige—that have changed the personality of what was once “La Belle France,” transforming it into a nation afflicted with status anxiety. He explains how a country that endlessly repeats its credentials as America's oldest ally has become one of our most resolute enemies, wielding the biggest weapon in its arsenal—the European Union—against the interests of an America that it fears and envies.

http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/vifr/images/vifr.jpg


Denis Boyles is the author of African Lives, Man Eaters Motel and A Man's Life: The Complete Instructions, among other books. His work has appeared in Esquire, Playboy, The Washington Post, and The New York Times. He currently writes the European Press Review column for National Review Online and contributes to various magazines and journals.

While I have no love for the French government, the more attention they are given, they more they think America gives a damn. The U.K. knows the score.

-HECK!

Well they did include cheese, so they're not all bad.

"I'm a European and I think it is very important to know the anti-American propaganda and the bias in our media. You have to be aware about the real reasons of anti-Americanism here. These reasons are not your government's deeds."
—Paolo, Italy

I lived and worked in France for over three years, and rarely have I encountered a book on any subject that gets it so right. Boyles' take on France is hilarious -- and, alas, all too accurate. It is a wasted old roue of a country, sustained by memories of former glory, (largely imagined), and bitterly resentful of the success of more robust and forward-looking societies, mainly our own. For far too long many Americans have been willing to allow that the French, for all their faults, at least have the saving grace of style -- but even this is a myth. In fact, being as woefully insecure as any people on earth, they are desperate trend-followers, afraid even to whisper an independent thought lest someone make fun of them. An exaggeration? Read this book. Boyles totally nails them, and it's about time!
—Anonymous

I know that France is in trouble. Arabs are flooding the country and are not being integrated, the native population is aging, pensions are too high to sustain, and pessimism is a national problem, except when the right team wins the world cup.

Mr. Boyles exposes the French nation for what it is - a rogue state that is much nearer to our hearths and minds than, say, North Korea. Ever since the revolution (ours, not theirs) they have been after us in one way or another. When they realize what side the baguette's buttered on, they laugh and cover up their errors and we are only too willing to aid them. This is a problem, as Mr. Boyles rightly points out, and one that may, eventually boil over. In some ways, it already has, such as the pre-Iraq situation at the United Nations.

France has been called "our oldest ally." I say, with an ally like France, who needs enemies?
—Anonymous


http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/vifr/images/vifr.jpg

Hey ! I did miss this one from our good Curley Joe. Another pamphlet against France. Such a vile country ... I wonder why so many American people are heading here and come back. Is it possible that they did enjoy french hospitality ?

I am yet to see a book called "evil USA" advertised in France the way this book is here.

Just a question: if the "qualities" highlighted on the cover page are that evident ... why so much publicity and propaganda ?

I would just like to point out the difference between cursing a regime (in my case, the Bush's bunch of crooks) and posting blatant anti-french crap aimed at discrediting a country and its people as Curley Joe is doing.

Curley Joe - you are an individual full of fear and hatred. Exactly what this Boyles bloke is making a fuss with. No surprise if you find some pleasure in spreading such crap on this forum.

“What we mistakenly see as a craven, anti-Semitic, hypocritical, hysterically anti-American, selfish, overtaxed, culturally exhausted country bereft of ideas, fearful of its own capitulation to fundamentalist Islam, headed for a demographic cul de sac, corrupted by lame ideologies, crippled by a spirit-stomping social elite and up to its neck in a cheesy soufflé of multilayered bureaucracy is actually worse than all that. It’s vile.”

Vive la France!

Vive la France !

You know what ? If this is decadence, I love it !

"I'm a European and I think it is very important to know the anti-American propaganda and the bias in our media. You have to be aware about the real reasons of anti-Americanism here. These reasons are not your government's deeds."
—Paolo, Italy

You already posted that, Curley. Come on man, let's get some originality.

-HECK!

Don't ask for something you know you'll never get, Heck ! You will keep reading bashing, cursing, re-posted propaganda again and again.

The anti-americanism charge is purposely vague and used as a catch-all "argument", when in fact it's just namecalling for those unable to defend their position.

Half the citizens of the USA don't like Bush or his policies. Disliking policies is democratic. Arguing policies is democratic. Name-calling is childish but not surprisingly popular amongst the right who prefer not to think and be led by the nose. Poor saps.

Blind allegiance to any country including the UK, France etc is bad for democracy, and corrupt and ruthless politicians thrive in countries where propoganda and ignorance and intollerance rule.

That's perfectly right. We Europeans are regularly labeled as unpatriotic by some Americans because we don't wave flags at the drop of a hat, don't pledge allegiance each morning at school.
The number of people from our countries who died during past wars, and whose numerous names are engraved on numerous steles everywhere, should however speak for itself as to how "patriotism" - since this is the name to give to that - had led millions of people to die for their country.
Our History is rich and full of examples about how extremism can destroy the democratic values of a developed and cultured country.
We are also well aware of the duplicity and defaults of our politicians.
All of that make of us wary and skeptical individuals - truth and common sense are never to be considered as granted, we must be careful.
As H@ts puts it - arguing policies is democratic.
The way the Bush admin has been manipulating and misleading people, though everything is always possible, however would have been much, much more difficult in Europe in my opinion. And that's precisely what supports and reinforce democracy - citizen awareness.
So now Curley Joe and his likes can keep bashing France as much as they want - it only highlights their immaturity and gullibility; in one word: ignorance, plain and simple. Keep it up guys.

The view is of an egotistical, Leftist elite that rules France, all the time stifling the vast majority of French people living outside the Il de Paris (a 'hexagon' that encircles Paris). The author spends much of the book detailing the unfree media in France (publicly-funded and dominated by communist unions), and the elite that runs the country for only its own good. He calls the French 'wolves with souls of sheep'. I mean, what can you say about a country that to a large extent collaborated with the Nazis, almost collapsed in World War I, invaded most of Europe under Napoleon, and had a very bloody revolution (in comparison to America's). A country that believes that only in France can one find fine wine and cheese. A country that claims the U.S. only acts in its own interests, all the while, modern French foreign policy is basically a rubber stamp for its own oil companies, and is based on 'automatic' anti-Americanism (indeed, Jean Francois Revel once said, modern French intellectual thought has no content, outside of anti-Americanism).

—Anonymous reader


http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/vifr/images/vifr.jpg

So you are saying that the only hatred for Americans exists on this board and not by the English and French countryment?
LOL

USA1 -

What's the problem with people not liking the US? So what? It's seems to be an obssession amongst some of you guys. I can tell you I couldn't care less who likes or dislikes the British. It really is of no concern to me, whatsoever if some state in the US has a hatred for all things British.

That is just so long as that hatred doesn't turn into the kind of funding that came from New Yorkers that led to 30 years of murder in Northern Irand and England.

Anything else - who cares?

The book shows the lack of French 'fair play', and all the atrocious things the French did in Africa and the Mideast. For example, the French allowed the Ayotola Khomeni to stay in Paris, then approved his plan to leave and take over Iran, so that they could then sell Iran French products and weapons secretly, above the head of the U.S. The French involvement with Saddam is well-known, as is the corruption at the UN and the corruption in the UN 'Food for Oil' program. Thus, it is France, not the U.S., that flouts the will of the international community (anyone recall French nuclear testing in the Pacific in 1995?). The country that educated the most vicious killers in history (the Khmer Rouge leadership, to name just one example). It is a corrupt, bureaucratic, and increasinlgly anti-Semitic nation (a country that regularly 'condemns' Israel and sides with the Palestinians).

—Anonymous reader

Curley Joe: The book shows the lack of French 'fair play', and all the atrocious things the French did in Africa and the Mideast. For example, the French allowed the Ayotola Khomeni to stay in Paris, then approved his plan to leave and take over Iran, so that they could then sell Iran French products and weapons secretly, above the head of the U.S.

Doesn't this ring bells and give you a clue here how governments sometimes operate?

The French involvement with Saddam is well-known, as is the corruption at the UN and the corruption in the UN 'Food for Oil' program. Thus, it is France, not the U.S., that flouts the will of the international community (anyone recall French nuclear testing in the Pacific in 1995?).

The US involvement with Saddam Hussein is well-known. I haven't looked into it, but who knows, maybe the British had involvement with Saddam Hussein too. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

And which country today is not doing business quite happily with China, despite that coutries appauling human rights abuses?

What I can say is that France certainly can't play the moral highground regarding some actions in Africa or these shameful nuclear testings in polynesia. Lots of citizen of this country are well aware of that and disgusted about the wrongdoings of their governants. I am part of them. But, conversely, and I know that first hand for having traveled in these countries, the French are doing a lot of good and helping people and, even lost in the savannah in the middle of nowhere, you would find local people happy with the help some french people have provided them (digging a well, and so on).
French people are generally appreciated and welcomed in a lot, lot of places worldwide so I suppose that if they were such evil people that wouldn't be the case. Just my opinion from statements on the ground.

Right now, and H@ts has relevantly pointed it out, our governments are pursuing agendas of their own and they are sometimes disgusting. It is our responsibility as citizens to remain watchful.

Only simple-minded individuals like Curley Joe can get away with a minimal objectivity regarding the actions of their governants.

Here's something for Curley Joe to get his teeth into, British imperialism, 1950's, Kenya.

Anti-Semitism is on the rise, both among non-Muslims, and among Muslims. Islamic fundamentalism is also on the rise, and will soon be a very strong political force in France (it already is). One reason is the lack of integration of the minority in mainstream French life. This is the best modern book about France.

—Anonymous reader

So why's anti-Semitism up? Can you join the dots between - a lack of integration - and anti-Semitism amongst non-Muslims and Muslims?

Btw, for you Curley Joe, the question's rhetorical. But feel free to post something irrelevant. I'm sure you will.

Fear, duplicity, cowardice and jealousy. Aka, Vile France.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/thumb/pw_sign_02.gif

France and the US are best pals. Almost as close now as when the French saved America from losing to the valiant and honorable British army. That was in the good old days when the World was as it should be, British.

All this propaganda against France is just significant as to how some people are dealing with geopolitics. Childishly, plain and simple. Appreciation between people of different nationalities are first of all due to the links individuals create between them. All this crap posted in this thread - of course, by Curley Joe - only points out ignorance and prejudice from a single minded individual. Hey - it would be so easy to resort to the same methods, but they are the privilege of these people. Keep it up Curley Joe.

When asked whether radical Islam and the many unintegrated European Muslims will not undermine the European dream, Jeffrey Gedmin answers, "The conflict is not only between the West and radical Islam. A parallel battle will be fought out partly on European soil between Islamists and Muslim moderates. Large parts of the European Muslim population are not assimilated. Europeans have for many years turned a blind eye to that.

"Americans are not different from the Europeans in this tendency. For a long time, we have closed our eyes to what happens in Saudi Arabia. We pumped oil and hoped for the best. Now we realize that this does not work. The same will happen to Europe. There is a major incompatibility between the peaceful European Union dream and its large marginalized Muslim communities, which are being radicalized. Furthermore, the Muslims are growing in numbers while European indigenous populations are shrinking. Europe is only starting to try and come to terms with the European Muslim problem, which will grow over the years.

"In the meantime, Europe feeds the impulse of appeasement, which one sees in both Germany and France as well as in other EU countries such as Spain. The authorities fear that if one confronts an Arab rogue state, or an Islamic terrorist, this might incite a reaction within radical Muslim circles in their own countries."

Jeffrey Gedmin was born in Washington, DC, in 1958. He studied music as an undergraduate. He holds a Ph.D. from Georgetown University and worked at the American Enterprise Institute. In 2002 he became director of the Aspen Institute of Berlin. Gedmin writes a regular column for Die Welt and the American Spectator.

Sowhat
Just for the record, lots of Americans have been trained in the sixties by former high ranking french militaries having served during the war in Algeria. They taught anti-insurrectional techniques, torture, and so on.
As for anti-semitism - even though this has always existed, I would like to point out the biased treatment by international media about that. I remember articles about such events that were simply a distortion of facts. There are facts that should not be dodged, however I invite you to be cautious about how they are reported - exactly as it is the case concerning the Israël - Palestine conflict.

Exactly my point: they are doing a good job making everybody else hate themselves, not the people but the leaders (like Arafat), but then again, people listened to him and followed him.... And last time i checked, he was not an alien either. (Or was he?)

No matter who is in charge, they cannot control Hamas. Hamas and Syria rule Palestine.

Do none of you guys think the Jews should take any of the responsibility for the problems of the Middle East. This tiny bit of land has created a chasm between Arabs and the West that's been going on for 50 years and helped bring about the 9/11 attack, which then of course was used as one of the pretexts for the US to start two wars in the Gulf. Israel, whichever way you look at it has been an unmitigated disaster.

Sowhat,
I don't think that the idea of Jews having a momeland makes "Europe's" blood oil.
Remember that lots of European countries, and France in the first place, have helped the state of Israel at its beginning. Armament, miscelleanous help. People did not see unfavorably the state of Israel. Most of them would keep telling you that the property of this piece of land is legitimate.
The problem is how Israel is dealing with its Palestinian neighbours. Beyond the faked reports you are telling us, there is an obvious reality that does not plead in favor of recent political decisions taken by recent Israeli governments. More - a big part of the problem is linked to the strong relationship between Israel and the US, through what is perceived - sometimes with good reasons - as an unfair interference by the US in the area.

JY
I said "much of Europe's blood boil." Of course there are sensible, lucid people such as yourself, thank God.

And yes, Britain and France played a large political role in the creation of a modern Israel nation. Rothchild, a French Jew played a large role in the late 1800's by purchasing much of the land, legitimately.

How should you deal with "neighbours" whose main stated goal is to throw you into sea? And this neighbour who teaches its children to despise you and kill you if given the chance? And carries out murders of your household with homicide bombings and rockets?

Quite frankly, I think Israel has shown much restraint. With all of their firepower, they could have wiped out Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq EVEN WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE US.

If you have ever studied up on the events of 1948, you would know that Israel defeated Arabs who were intent on destroying her from the very beginning...without a large official army...and were outnumbered by far. Same goes with the 1967 and 1973, you would see they were outnumbered greatly, had no earthly allies and were triumphant in all these wars.

I believe the rest of the world, including the US should stay out of this conflict.
Its really none of their/our business.

I firmly believe Israel has the right to defend herself.
If Germany were pulling such shenanigans as these Islamic Arabs are on the north of France, how long do you think Chirac would put up with this disputed area?
If Israel's actions seem harsh, they are justified.

And the people who call themselves "Palestinians" (only since 1967, many called themselves Jordanians or Syrians or Lebanese, but for politics' sake are now named "Palestinians) are being used as pawns in this Arab Islamic hatred for Israel.

It seems the Arab Islamic hatred of Israel far outweighs any brotherly love for these Arabs in the outlying areas. Because there is enough room in the land and deserts of the surrounding Islamic countries to absorb these outlying Arabs...
but instead, they make them even more homeless and disadvantaged than the Israeli's do. But these outlying Arabs have been brainwashed into believing that it's all Israel's fault, and they don't see how very vile their Arab brothers are treating them.

When did jews wanted to destroy arabs?

When? Who? Which leader? Which arabs? Palestinians? Why didnt Israel destroy them after the 1967 war, when they could? Why? Want me to tell you why? Because jews are not animals who enjoy killing. Unlike Arafat, Hamas, and other parties so beloved in Europe.

It was well documented that EU aid to Palestine which it paid to Arafat, was used to finance attacks on Israel, spread propaganda and do NOTHING to improve palestinians' lives. Arafat lived well, thou, so did his wife. All these facts ARE VERY WELL KNOWN.

Now answer this: why has the EU been providing this money? Add 2 and 2 and solve this easy question. I dont think they are dummies, these french politicians. They knew perfectly well what they are paying for.

sowhatsthetruth: The first step in the roadmap is that the Arabs stop terrorism.

And they say the first step is to stop building on Arab land and end the occupation. What makes the Jews more right than them? Terrorism or not, twice as many Palastinians have died than Jews over the last few years. The hatred is a mutual thing.

If Israel went for the land from Egypt to the Euphrates as was given to them by God....they would very easily get the land.

And God probably promised the land to the Arabs. Using God to justify your actions is easy and historically everyone tries it (dare I say Bush is now). At it's most extreme, using God to justify actions led to the Catholic church killed millions during the Inquisition becasue God said so, Hitler killed the Jews because God said so. Religious extremism is dangerous and usually self-defeated and ends up with lots of people being persecuted.

-------------------------------------

MrJukoVette: When did jews wanted to destroy arabs?

Some Jews say the land was given to them by God and want the Arabs off it, one way or the other. It's religious fundamentalism and dangerous.

Wanting them off and resorting to murder are 2 different things.
I would say that Arabs are twice as likely to murder innocent people than Jews. Hence the number of deaths.

If I was a Palestinian I would fight for a new leader who wasn't supporting terrorizm. I would also expect tolerence, which is not in the Arab vocabulary.
If they had their land back would the killing stop? Nope, because there are still Jews living there. This is as much about genocide as it is about land.