An autopsy will be performed after Terri Schiavo dies to show the extent of her brain damage, her husband's attorney says.
On Monday, Schiavo's 11th day without food or water, supporters of prolonging the woman's life carried their protests to the White House, while the husband's attorney said she looked "peaceful" and had a stuffed toy cat under her arm.
George Felos, the attorney for husband and guardian Michael Schiavo, said Monday that the chief medical examiner for Pinellas County, Dr. John Thogmartin, had agreed to perform an autopsy.
He said her husband wants definitive proof showing the extent of her brain damage. Michael Schiavo contends his wife told him years ago she would not want to be kept alive artificially under such circumstances.
An attorney for Schiavo's parents, David Gibbs III, said her family also wants an autopsy. "We would certainly support and encourage an autopsy to be done, with all the unanswered questions," Gibbs said.
Felos said he had visited Schiavo for more than an hour Monday and said she looked "very peaceful. She looked calm."
"I saw no evidence of any bodily discomfort whatsoever," Felos said, although he added her breathing seemed "a little on the rapid side" and her eyes were sunken.
Doctors said Terri Schiavo, 41, would probably die within a week or two when the tube was removed on March 18. She suffered catastrophic brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped for several minutes because of a chemical imbalance.
The parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, pressed again for President Bush, Congress and the president's brother, Gov. Jeb Bush, to intervene to have the feeding tube reinserted. A small group of supporters protested outside the White House gates.
At the invitation of Schiavo's family, the Rev. Jesse Jackson scheduled a visit to the hospice to pray and possibly see Schiavo herself, said Jackson spokesman Shelley Davis. Jackson last week issued a statement backing reinsertion of Schiavo's feeding tube and calling for her supportes to use "this same passion" to combat hunger and starvation worldwide.
Bob Schindler repeated his plea that she be kept alive by having her feeding tube reinserted. About 100 protesters used harsh rhetoric and some in the crowd mimicked Nazi soldiers by goose-stepping in front of police. Another eight protesters who tried to bring water into the hospice for Schiavo were arrested for trespassing, bringing the 10-day total of arrests to 46.
"She's still communicating, she's still responding. She's emaciated, but she's responsive," Schindler told reporters after a visit with his daughter, saying that she showed facial expressions when he hugged and kissed her.
As Schiavo drew closer to death, extra police officers blocked the road in front of the Florida hospice, and an elementary school next door was closed so students could avoid the crowd.
President Bush's aides have said they have run out of legal options.
At least two more appeals filed by the state seeking the feeding tube's reconnection were pending, but those challenges were before a Florida appeals court that had rejected the governor's previous efforts in the case.
Smart move by Michael. I think it will show that she was in PSV all this time. However, I don't think that her family or the protesters will ever believe it.
Smart move by Michael. I think it will show that she was in PSV all this time. However, I don't think that her family or the protesters will ever believe it.
No, I seriously doubt it, as they've been saying whatever they want all this time with complete disregard for what is. If they indeed discover that this poor girl has been gone since 1990 - as seems fairly likely - the Schindlers will resort to what they have been doing for the last 12 years: deny, blame, seek solace in fantasyland.
1) Claim that the doctor who did the autopsy was wrong
2) Claim that there was nothing wrong with her brain until two weeks without the feeding tube killed her
3) Find somebody, somewhere, willing to go on the record as saying that they have a treatment that would have cured her up until the moment that she died and that the physical changes in her brain were not incompatible with higher brain function
The Schindlers might as well say whatever they want. They obviously need to believe it themselves. As for the protesters, they will be completely unaffected by more facts that differ with their feelings and beliefs. They will continue to want to believe the Schindler's side, and they will continue to do so.
No, nothing can happen to the husband. If anything, there would be a lawsuit against the hospital for not diagnosing the case correctly. But I think they're pretty confident in the outcome here.
It's not that she's faking it Heck. I don't think anyone's implying that.
But there COULD be a chance that her parents are right and she is communicating and all that and that she isn't totally 100% vegetated. It's not likely, but stranger things have certainly happened.
I hope this doesn't sound too insensitive. I have been having this gnawing thought about this situation lately. It seems to me that the Schindlers are dealing with a certain amount of guilt maybe that they didn't do more to help their daughter when she was dealing with bulimia. It occured to me when I was thinking about why they would be trying so hard to keep her alive in this state. Does anyone else suppose that they knew of her situation and denial allowed them to ignore the situation and now they can't bear the guilt that has overtaken them and they want to do everything possible to keep her alive?
I was listening to Michael Savage (I don't know why I put myself through such torture) last night and he posed a question about who is responsible for Terri's death. His choices were Bush, Greer, among others (10 choices in total). I couldn't help but think to myself (actually I yelled it out loud to the radio in the car) that in fact Terri was responsible for her own death 15 years ago when she basically succumbed to bulimia.
Every now and then I can't help myself. It's kind of like when you watch an accident scene. You know nothing good can come of it but you keep looking anyway. I can't believe people actually agree with this man on any point that he makes. I have yet to hear him say anything that remotely makes sense.
niwrad428 said this in post #10 : I hope this doesn't sound too insensitive. I have been having this gnawing thought about this situation lately. It seems to me that the Schindlers are dealing with a certain amount of guilt maybe that they didn't do more to help their daughter when she was dealing with bulimia. It occured to me when I was thinking about why they would be trying so hard to keep her alive in this state. Does anyone else suppose that they knew of her situation and denial allowed them to ignore the situation and now they can't bear the guilt that has overtaken them and they want to do everything possible to keep her alive?
I was listening to Michael Savage (I don't know why I put myself through such torture) last night and he posed a question about who is responsible for Terri's death. His choices were Bush, Greer, among others (10 choices in total). I couldn't help but think to myself (actually I yelled it out loud to the radio in the car) that in fact Terri was responsible for her own death 15 years ago when she basically succumbed to bulimia.
Just something that was on my mind.....
Dont feel guilty about your thoughts niwrad because you are basically correct.
Its her eating disorder, thus herself, that caused this horrible thing to happen.
I wouldnt say that her parents knew...though they might have had suspicions.
Bulemia is hard to detect, but sometimes there are signs such as always going in the bathroom after eating.
My ex-sister-in-law, she used to run the bath tub for an hour after eating so no one would hear her throwing up (and her parents knew but didnt tell my brother)...my brother tried to get her help, but it didnt work.
He didnt know until after they were married that she had bulemia...he figured it out after the continous bathroom trips and when her parents finally told him after he asked them.
So, Terri's parents might have known (or suspected) or not...its hard to say.
Its also hard to stop someone from doing such a thing.
There was a story about Ellen Hart Pena (you can google her name..I saw her story in a movie)....she was a bulimic as well, and she got through it but eventually her own mother admitted that she had suspicions but thought that it was just a phase.
Im not saying her parents thought that...but its always possible.
Every now and then I can't help myself. It's kind of like when you watch an accident scene. You know nothing good can come of it but you keep looking anyway. I can't believe people actually agree with this man on any point that he makes. I have yet to hear him say anything that remotely makes sense.
What else can you expect from a man who wrote a book called 'Liberalism is a Mental Disorder'?
Bulemia is hard to detect, but sometimes there are signs such as always going in the bathroom after eating.
My ex-sister-in-law, she used to run the bath tub for an hour after eating so no one would hear her throwing up (and her parents knew but didnt tell my brother)...my brother tried to get her help, but it didnt work.
He didnt know until after they were married that she had bulemia...he figured it out after the continous bathroom trips and when her parents finally told him after he asked them.
So, Terri's parents might have known (or suspected) or not...its hard to say.
Its also hard to stop someone from doing such a thing.
I lived with a bulimic (yes, a guy) for several months in my 20s ... When we were dating, he easily hid it from me (and his relatives and friends). When we moved in together, he couldn't hide anymore: not uncommonly, he would eat two or three meals at once and then disappear into the bathroom and run the sink. When I realized what he was doing, I confronted him and told him that it was disgusting, unhealthy and that it bothered me and he quit doing it, or at least quit doing it as often. He then promptly gained 30 or 40 pounds overnight and blamed me making him get fat. (umm.. no, he got fat because he still would sit down and eat two days' worth of food in a single meal, but though he realized he needed to hide his abnormal behavior when possible, he never understood that it was the eating disorder that was the problem, not stopping doing it.)
From this experience, I observed first-hand how well a bulimic can hide their problem, how reluctant they are to give it up and how some of them, at least, are unable to make the connection between their urges to binge and purge with the health problems that they put themselves at risk for.
A bulimic is responsible for the health problems that they cause themselves. No one else makes them binge and purge. However, I suspect that there are differing conditions and environments that plant the seeds for issues like bulimia and ultimately, in some cases, you have to look to see where the bulimia came from.
You can play the blame game with bulimia for ever. Terri is the victim of numerous unfortunate events, probably throughout her entire life, which ultimately led to this situation.
I think that saying that Terri bought this all upon herself by being bulimic is a bit harsh.
No Emma, it is really not harsh. It is a sad reality. Terri was bulimic. She had such a low potassium level that it caused cardiac arrest. She was revived and her condition is the result of the time her brain was without oxygen. Eating disorders can be deadly. You starve your body, you mess with the chemical balance. It is very sad. Terri did not want it to happen, but it is the result of her eating disorder.
schmiggens said this in post #16 : You can play the blame game with bulimia for ever. Terri is the victim of numerous unfortunate events, probably throughout her entire life, which ultimately led to this situation.
I think that saying that Terri bought this all upon herself by being bulimic is a bit harsh.
Why is that harsh?
I mean bulemia is what caused her to have a heart attack.
She chose this way to have control over her life.
No one is saying that events didnt cause her to have the eating disorder...but it is a choice individuals make.
Well in that case, what caused her to have bulimia? Did her parents call her a fatty boombah when she was ten? If so it's their fault that Terri has bulimia and it's their fault she's in PVS. Did some bully at school pull down Terri's skirt and Terri got body conscious and that casued her bulimia? Is that Bully to be blamed for Terri being PVS?
Laying blame on anyone, especially on Terri herself, is useless. Didn't you tell me just the other day not to judge?
I don't think people are judging her for having bulimia Emma. They are just pointing out that it was the cause of her unfortunate cardiac arrest all those years ago. Just a fact, not a judgment.
Perhaps she was bulimic in order to try to please her husband/society (?). Maybe he criticized her for her weight ( she was once overweight...I have been told) and she gained attention from males after losing some 92 pounds in her early years.
Dieting made her more attractive to males who paid more attention to her. One of those males was Michael Shiavo. Not saying anyone is to blame for her eating disorder but Terri had low self esteem and there are many factors that may have made her chose to to do that to herself.
Most bulimic and anorexics view themselves differently from how we see them. I don't know what impact her husband may have had, but perhaps it would have been different she didn't try to "change" or "maintain" her body image. Who knows what the reason was for potassium shortage.
I once was taken to the hospital because I was feeling weak and dizzy at work. My co-workers were concerned when I became lethargic and couldn't seem to stay awake or alert. I actually passed out for a few mins at my desk! Everything seemed like slow motion. My boyfriend at the time came rushing over and drove me to the hospital where I was subject to blood tests and a physical.
The doctors told me my body was "severely" low in potassium and that was why I had those symptoms. I wasn't dieting, or on any prescription meds. I was given a dose of pure potassium to drink and told to eat a banana a day. To this day, I remember how serious my doctor was when he warned me to eat properly and maintain my potassium levels and get the proper nutrients from fruit and vegetables every day.
Terri being bulimic and on fertility medications probably heightened her medical condition to the extreme. Heart attacks can happen to anyone, even healthy young people. My friends sister's 18 year old twin daughter died 2 years ago from a sudden heart attack. She did not have a chance, she was dieting but that wasn't considered a factor in her death. It was just one of those things. She fell asleep and never woke up. It tears me up to this day, knowing that the doctors found no pre-existing conditions in her heart even though she said she felt "tired" all the time.
Very sad what happened to Terri as well, but there are so many things that may have factored into why she became bulimic, and had a heart attack. I hope the autopsy clears up some of our unanswered questions, but then again we may never know.
This is a picture of Terri Schiavo before brain damage, I don't know how long before her brain damage, but she certainly doesn't look as bad as some anorexics or bulimics I have seen before. She doesn't look like she's about to have a heart attack and drop dead, that's for sure. She looks like a happy, healthy, normal young woman.
You cant look at a bulimic and tell that they have an eating disorder..they look like any normal person..
Bulimia is not about staying thin as much as it is about having control over something. It starts with taking weight off but then it becomes a control issue, which makes it hard to stop.
Anorexia is about weight..not control. And you cant tell when a person is anorexic.
Why do you think we have been talking about people not knowing when someone has bulimia.
My brother's ex-wife had it, and he didnt even know until months after they were married. She hid it that well from him...she, too, died from a heart attack in her early 30's. (after they divorced)
Bulimia nervosa is an eating disorder characterized by binging and purging behaviors. A person uncontrollably eats large amounts of food in a short period of time and then compensates for the calories consumed by purging them from their system in an attempt to prevent weight gain. Some common behaviors may include the use of self-induced vomiting, laxatives, diuretics, fasting, or excessive exercise to prevent weight gain. People with bulimia feel they cannot stop eating or control what or how much they are eating. Purging helps them regain a feeling of control, although it is a false and temporary sense of control. Often bulimics are normal or above normal weight, unlike anorexics who are often abnormally thin. Because bulimics often look perfectly normal, recognizing an individual with bulimia nervosa may be difficult. Bulimia nervosa is more common than anorexia nervosa, affecting about 3 to 4 percent of young women in the middle-to-upper socioeconomic level. It is also seen in adolescents, some males, and in women in lower socioeconomic levels.
I would like to know how Schmigg drew that conclusion from this picture of her upper body and mug shot. However if you want to point out this picture, if you take a look at Terri’s neck and shoulder you can see that there are signs of anorexia if she were diagnosed with that.
Bulimia isn’t the same as anorexia. Blaming her parents, society or even her husband is all speculation here. Certainly the most plausible explanations are her school years after she lost the weight and society’s view on the ideal body.
Often I use to go on juice fasts and eat nothing, sometimes not even have the juices during the day. Your body gives off very strong signals when something is wrong. Low potassium definitely gives of symptoms of weakness, dizziness or light-headedness and if very low, confusion. If Terri’s condition was so serious that her heart stopped beating, she most definitely ignored these symptoms (or hid them) to favor the outcome in which she believe she needed to have.
I believe most people who are bulimic know what they are doing isn’t healthy, they just believe that somehow they can beat the odds. In other words, it won’t happen to them. Terri is the only one to blame for her condition period. No one forced her to eat and regurgitate. True, there are reasons why a person can behave in such a manor but ultimately the responsibility for your behavior rests on you since you are the one ultimately making the decisions.
They are just pointing out that it was the cause of her unfortunate cardiac arrest all those years ago. Just a fact, not a judgment.