Would you want to live in a PVS?

Euthanasia/Right to Die Forum

Maybe one of the mods can convert this thread into a poll. I was wondering how many of you would want to live in a PVS state for 15 yrs? In fact any length of time for that matter?

I wouldnt for any length of time in that condition.

I also asked that last night...who would actually WANT to live this way?....because I dont know of anyone that would choose to live under these conditions.

If it was me...."Pull the Plug!"

PULL THE PLUG!

Thread is going to be combined with the poll. Thanks for the idea Oneofpeace.

I would never want to live in this state. Your cerebral cortex is gone. It can not come back. Let me go back to my maker.

What exactly does the cerebral cortext do? Is that where your personality is stored? Or ability to rationalize?... What is it, exactly?

I ask this because, as heavens said, there are new breakthroughs all the time.

Did you know that a monkey in America has a mechanism implanted in his head which allows him to control whatever mechanical thing he's "connected" to using ONLY his thoughts? That was a few years ago as I understand it. More recently they (scientists, whoever) designed a CAP which picks up brainwaves... no surgury required--which is the beginning of a very interesting breakthrough.

20 years ago if someone said they'd hook a monkey's brain up to a computer and he could browse the internet using his mind you'd think I was crazy. You still may. But that technology is real.

When someone is in a coma, they often hear and smell everything around them, but they are trapped because the part of their mind that allows them to control their body is asleep.

I know Terri's case is different. But how different?

Do we know the human brain well enough to prove that her personality (though compeltely asleep) isn't still in her mind? Can it be unlocked?

I see her on T.V. and she has wide eyes and she's smiling. She's breathing. She reflexively swallows food and water (hopefully enough to survive). She turns her head and aknowledge's people. She sits up. She can feel pain and obviousely, if she's smiling, pleasure.

Maybe she's alive enough as it is...

Brain Functions and Maps

Terri’s injury isn’t comparable to comas. Coma’s often is just a loss of consciousness maybe due to a number of things including brain injuries. Depending on the degree of damage comas are usually more optimistic than PVS. PVS is the next stage down in which there is permanent and irreversible damage to the brain.

I saw a Neurosurgeon on TV yesterday say that Persistent Vegetative State is usually diagnosed during the first year of this kind of severe brain damage with no improvement. Usually after a year, they refer to it as Permanent Vegetative State. He went on to say that he’s never seen a patient ever return from such a condition.

Keeping Terri alive in hopes that one day a cure might be found is like waiting on the second coming. If Terri is somehow aware of her surroundings, which is highly unlikely, can you imagine the torture she must be enduring knowing she’s trapped in that quality of life for years?

It was Terri’s wishes that she not linger in such a condition. What is so hard in recognizing her right to make that choice? Even if she never said so, it is still the right of the husband to honor what he believes is his wife’s wishes. It is sacred and private and quite frankly none of our business.

Waiting for some magic cure isn’t the answer for artificially sustaining her carbon based tissue. No she cannot smell or taste. She cannot eat hence the feeding tube and she is not aware of her surroundings. The part of the brain that is responsible for it all is dead.

The Terri they love is no longer with them. She unfortunately let go in 1990. It is the parents that refuse to do so. Give her her dignity back and let her rest.

Sayzak--

Check this link.
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921394859.html

OneOfPeace--

Solid post. In addition to what you said I'd like to mention ego and balance. There are people dying of starvation every day on our great planet. Roughly 150,00 people die each month from Malaria...Malaria!! There are people on this very forum who lack health care. In light of these facts, I would have to decline the option to be artificially sustained. The resources that would essentially be wasted on me could be used for much more. I believe it is our responsibility to remain objective and to shelve our egos and selfish inclinations on behalf of the greater good.

Sayzack, they have done numerous tests on Terri. She is unable to swallow at all. The cerebral cortex is the part of your brain that holds consciousness. These are other functions of the cerebral cortex: determines Intelligence,Determines Personality,
Interpretation of Sensory Impulses,Motor Function, Planning and Organization, and Touch Sensation. They showed a CT from Terri. The cerebral cortex was liquified and gone. Terri is not there anymore, just a shell of what she used to be. There is no way to regrow a brain.

I guess I didn't make myself clear... I know that she's NOT in a Coma.

However, I'm NOT convinced, even after looking at the map of the brain, that some revolutionary technology couldn't improve her condition.

Regaurdless, after thinking about it every day, I know that I wouldn't pull the plug if I had the choice. She can see. She can feel. Maybe she's lucky that she doesn't have to deal with the complications of society, she doesn't have to wake up at 5:30 in the morning, fight rush hour traffic to face a boss who degrades her, do some boring redundent activity for 9 hours, face rush hour traffic again and then come home to screaming kids... Obviousely she's not "awake" in the sense that you and I are, but at what level of contiousness (sp?) do you have to be at to deserve your life?

The fact is, not you, not the doctor, no one really knows if she's completely gone, or only "sort of" there. Just because she can't respond to a math question or tell what channel to put the T.V. on doesn't mean there isn't some meaning to her life.

She's alive...

The fact remains that she has no awareness. You can not regrow a brain. It is liquified. Nothing will ever bring her back.

Fuscia,
Just wondering.
When I see recent pictures of her with her family, she looks like her eyes move toward them and is responsive to their touth.
It just appears that she cannot speak.
I heard/read that this is typical of PVS, but how exactly do they know for sure she is not aware of the people around her?

Stroke victims go through similar trials...they are aware of what is around them, and cannot speak. How is this different? In a stroke certain portions of the brain have been damaged sometimes permanently sometimes temporarily.

Those were snippets of a video that was 4 hours long. The other parts of the tape she was not doing anything close to that. IF you wait long enough, she will cycle through.

As for the awareness, they have done several ECG's and there is nothing there. No brain waves. The cerebral cortex or where it should be is filled with nothing but spinal fluid. They have that from a cat scan. If the part of your brain that controls consciousness, personality, touch, sensory perception is gone, then you are essential a brain stem working on primitive reflexes, nothing more.

so she feels no pain?
as a primitive reflex, what is she responding to?
would pain be something she would respond to?

I remember in College biology lab we had to scramble the brains of frogs before doing a live test or dissection. Is that in a sense what is happening here?

She smiles.

SHE has no CONTROL to smile... those are automatic things that happen in a state of PVS.

There is a fundamental lack of understanding by Congress and some in our society about Terri’s condition and this is an issue best settle by medical professionals. We see the same images played from 2001 with her smiling and looking in the direction of those trying to get her to respond and draw conclusion based on what we see and ignoring medical expertise.

Her responsiveness is a natural reflex. She has no awareness that she’s doing so nor can she remember doing it. Her higher consciousness can never be reassemble because that part of her brain has been destroyed and is now liquefied.

But even if she could, why would someone want to live in that personal hell? Why can’t our society respect the wishes of Terri and simply let her rest?

Wanting Terri’s body around has nothing to do with Terri and everything to do with her parents and bio-family’s need. Although it may be love, it is selfish to deny her peace. Allowing so is humane not barbaric. Artificially sustaining her organs solely because it can be done isn’t somehow merciful. It has nothing to do with devaluing Terri’s life and everything to do with honoring it. It was her wishes, her choice, and every court that has had the facts before it has upheld her right to peace, her right to die.

Ultimately she will physically die, it’s just a matter of when not if. Death is a part of life not life a part of Death. We must understand that and allow it to be so because we have no control and will ultimately come to us all and give us rest. Is this such a bad thing? Only that after centuries we still have problems grappling with our own mortality.