Is it true? - Euthanasia/Right to Die

Is it true?

Euthanasia/Right to Die Forum

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Posted by: schmiggens

Here in Australia, we are only just getting details of this case through in our press. I've picked a few things here and there as I try and research it through other stories and boards. But I am not sure. Can anyone verify?


There is a thought that her husband might have abused her putting her into the comma in the first place. He has done a lot to insure that the doctors do not examine her. She hasn't even ever had an MRI or CAT scan in all the years she's been incapacitated.

All her parents want to do is take her home and care for her themselves, at no cost to her husband.
(Who offered the money?)

Is he remarried with kids?

Cheers.

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Posted by: oneofpeace

I heard Terri’s brother on CNN last night say exactly the same thing. No he's not remarried from what I understand but he does have a couple of kids by another woman I believe he intends to marry.

Her brother made point of this but I think it unrealistic and unfair to believe that he should simply put his life on hold for how many years while the parents continue to lengthen the process? This could have been over at least 7 yrs ago had they not chosen to prolong the courts decisions even now.

Her husband is admirable for sticking by Terri’s wishes. He refused millions to honor her wishes.

The courts here have reviewed this case. Yes there were CAT scans and MRIs done and medical testimony by professionals. They just refuse to accept their findings.

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Posted by: Lawless

They are saying these things, Emma, because the family doesn't think that her own husband has the right to make this decision. Personally, I think that it's CRAZY to want to see your child, stay like a vegetable. She has been like this for 15 years. She's not going to come out of this, and be fine. Her husband said that they had talked, years ago, before this ever happened, stating that she didn't want to live like this. I know that people discuss these things... because I have with my partner.... and I've made it very clear to my own mother. DONT LET ME EVER LIVE LIKE A VEGETABLE!! PULL THE PLUG!! People should respect the wishes of their loved ones, and trust that the husband didn't just make something up, to be free of his responsibility!!!

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Posted by: fuscia

Emma the parents claim that he strangled her and that is what caused her heart attack. Note, there was no sign of trauma when she was at the hospital, and if he had strangled her to the point of not breathing, then there would have been evidence of it.

After 15 years who can blame the guy for having a girlfriend and a child. He is still married to Terri because he wants to see her wishes carried out.

The other side has put out so much spin on this it is crazy. I watched Michael Shiavo, from 2003, on Larry King Live last night. He said that the split with her parents came after a settlement over a malpractice suit. Her father demanded money. It is supposed to be in court records as well. The family also said that they don't care what Terri wanted, they want her alive.

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Posted by: oneofpeace

Last night on CNN, the brother was slinging all sorts of allegations at Terri’s husband. One of them was that he lied about how many judges heard the case and quite frankly after 7yrs, I’m surprised it was only 19 judges that heard it.

So far, Terri’s biological family has asked the husband to divorce her, said he only wants money and has rebuked him because he is now involved with another woman. Mom and pop had the audacity to say that they told Terri they were putting her tube back in and she smiled when she heard it.

This family is grasping at straws. Anything that shows the slightest sign they construe it as evidence that Terri is still here when in fact she isn’t. They’ve painted the husband in a very bad light and now it’s come to them being barred from the hospital room.

When asking most people about whether they want to live in that state, they will tell you absolutely not. It’s not far fetched to believe that she told her husband this. It’s far fetched to believe she would ever want to live like this.

Congress has taken it up as their personal agenda to intervene where they have no right simply to preserve the flesh without a soul, believing that somehow they’re doing the will of God. I’m having a hard time believing that God wants Terri’s body to live simply because it can sustain itself by artificial means.

This isn’t an issue of right to life, it’s an issue of right to death. Ecclesiastes says there is a time for “all things”, “a time to embrace and a time to reframe, a time to live and a time to die”. Allow Terri to make her own choice. It’s ironic that they are accusing her husband of playing God when they are doing exactly the same thing.

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Posted by: niwrad428

If her family truly believes that he did something to cause her condition then why did it take so long for the "parting of ways to take place"? It is reported that Michael lived with her family for a period of a few years after she became this way. If you thought your son-in-law was responsible for your daughter being in this condiditon, would you invite him to live with you? I would have to think not!

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Posted by: fuscia

Whta really gets me is that so many people who claim to be religious are supporting this action by congres. Why should they be afraid to let nature take its course and for Terri to go home to God? I know as a Christian I do not fear death. I will go home to be with my maker, so if I were the one in her shoes, I would hope that my family would know that I was going to a better place.

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Posted by: schmiggens

So he thinks she wants to die and her parents either don't care about her wishes, or they think she wants to live.

If the husband has moved on with his life, why doesn't he just walk away from it all and let the parents care for her until she dies? I know he must care for his wife still, but it would probably be easier for everyone if he just let the parents have their way. Well not easier for everyone, it wouldn't be easier for Terri if she wants to die, but if she wants to live, then it seems to be the easy answer.

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Posted by: fuscia

He has answered the question over and over. He loves Terri, and he wants to see that her wishes are followed. Her parents admitted in court that they do not care what Terri would have wanted. They want her alive and that is all that matters to them. It would be easier on him to let it go. He has received death threats, harrassment, yet he holds on to honor Terri's wishes. I saw a tape of him last night from 2003. He said that if he were the one in the PVS, he knows that Terri would have fought just as hard for him.

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Posted by: mystic

quote:
fuscia said this in post #4 :
Emma the parents claim that he strangled her and that is what caused her heart attack. Note, there was no sign of trauma when she was at the hospital, and if he had strangled her to the point of not breathing, then there would have been evidence of it.



FYI...to everyone...

The real truth is that she had a heart attack that was due to bulimia.

The rumors flying around about his abuse is B.S.
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Posted by: fuscia

Exactly Mystic. Terri was bulimic. Her potassium level was so low that it caused her heart to stop. You need potassium to get your heart to beat.

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Posted by: schmiggens

quote:
He has answered the question over and over.


Sorry, but we're just starting to hear about this in the last two or three days over here, so I am a bit behind you guys.
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Posted by: HECK!

If dude just wanted the money, first, has he not already paid to keep her alive all these years? Those hospital stays aren't cheap. Also, some guy offered to give him a mill to transfer guardianship over.

Maybe he just wants his wife to rest in peace.

I mean, it's true that no one truly knows what's going on with her upstairs. Is she totally comprehending everything but just cannot communicate? Is she totally and forever out of it? What's left of her, the real her?

-HECK!

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Posted by: Lawless

There isn't anything, Heck.... that's the point. And this was her wish... to not live like this!

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Posted by: schmiggens

But can they prove that there's nothing left of her?

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Posted by: Lawless

Have they proved that she IS there? It's just a SAD state when you, and your spouse, don't have the right to choose these legal matters. But, the thing is... we DO have those rights.. but the parents are raising all this trouble... they have stated that they don't care WHAT their daughters wishes were... they are going to do what THEY want. WHO has her best interest? No them....

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Posted by: HECK!

Yeah, the doc's said that she's in a vegetative state and there is no reasonable change she'll ever come out of it.

-HECK!

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Posted by: mystic

What is a persistent vegetative state?

According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

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Posted by: Lawless

What a horrible way to MAKE/FORCE someone to live.... that's what her parents, and our f'n gov't are doing to her!!! It's heinous... and abusive!! She deserves to be allowed to rest in peace.

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Posted by: mystic

quote:
Kris Rucker said this in post #19 :
What a horrible way to MAKE/FORCE someone to live.... that's what her parents, and our f'n gov't are doing to her!!! It's heinous... and abusive!! She deserves to be allowed to rest in peace.


I know!

Here is another interesting article...people are saying that her husband didnt start the process of doing this until 5 years later...this might explain why...see red highlighted area:


Vegetative state can give kin false hope

MALCOLM RITTER

Associated Press


NEW YORK - In the family video played over and over on TV, Terri Schiavo seems to gaze fondly at her mother, with the hint of a smile. On Sunday night, as Congress took up debate on her case, her father told reporters that she responded to his teasing by making a face at him. "It tells us she's still with us," he said.

But in Schiavo's condition, described as a persistent vegetative state, family members can be deceived by things like eye movements and reflexes, experts say.

"It creates this ironic combination of wakefulness without awareness," said Dr. James Bernat, a neurology professor at Dartmouth Medical School.

That's because in a persistent vegetative state, the brain centers that control wakefulness are functioning, but those that permit conscious awareness of oneself or the environment are damaged or destroyed.

As a result, patients close their eyes to sleep and open them when they wake up. If a doctor brushes the eyeball with a wisp of cotton, they may blink. If something gets caught in the throat, they will cough. There may be limited eye movements, though patients can't follow a person walking from one side of the room to another, for example.

That's in contrast to a coma, in which the eyes remain closed and a person is neither aware nor awake, or brain death, in which there is no sign at all that the brain is functioning.

Bernat, past chairman of the American Academy of Neurology's Ethics, Law and Humanities Committee, declined to comment specifically on the Schiavo case. He said outward signs of persistent vegetative state can give family members false hope.

"There's a normal tendency of family members to interpret (random) movements as evidence of awareness," said Bernat, who recalled seeing that happen with his own patients.

He said that when family members claim that a loved one in a persistent vegetative state is purposefully looking at them, he asks to accompany them to the bedside and see for himself. Sometimes, in fact, family members really have noticed genuine signs of consciousness and investigation shows the diagnosis was incorrect, he said. But in his experience, Bernat said, most of the time the family has been wrong.

Nobody can enter a patient's mind and discover what that person is experiencing, he noted. Doctors can only say that despite what family members might believe, "to the best of our ability we cannot convince ourselves there is any evidence of awareness," Bernat said. Doctors try to help the family understand how it's possible to be awake but not aware, he said.

Patients can recover after even a year or two in a persistent vegetative state caused by head trauma, Bernat said, although they generally continue to be disabled. However, he said a vegetative state that was caused by lack of blood or oxygen delivery to the brain and has gone on more than five years is considered permanent.

Schiavo, 41, has been at the center of a long and bitter court battle between her parents and her husband, who wants to remove her feeding tube so she can die.

Court-appointed doctors say Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state, after her heart stopped beating temporarily 15 years ago, cutting off oxygen to her brain. She did not leave any written instructions about care, but her husband, Michael Schiavo, contends she told him that she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and deny their daughter is in a vegetative state.

Video showing the dark-haired woman appearing to interact with her family has been televised nationally. But a court-appointed doctor has said the noises and facial expressions are merely reflexes.

In caring for a person in a this condition, doctors are guided by what the patient would have wanted, Bernat said. Some have indicated they want to be treated while others have said they want to be left to die, he said.

Usually patients can breathe without a ventilator. As in the Schiavo case, long-term care involves a feeding tube to deliver fluids and food to the stomach. If family members ask to stop treatment, the tube is removed or medical teams are instructed not to treat infections, Bernat said

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansa...cs/11194029.htm
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Posted by: HECK!

Seems to me like congress is using this case for shameless self-promotion. Isn't there a war going on?

And people are taken off of life support all the time. Where is their divine wisdom then?

-HECK!

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Posted by: Mr. F

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #15 :
But can they prove that there's nothing left of her?


One of the physicians that examined her said that old MRI's showed that her cerebral cortex had been ''liquefied''. She no longer feels pleasure or pain, she has no reasoning, no memory, no thought, and no way out.

What she does have is a brain stem. The brain stem regulates heart and lung functions, no higher brain functions .

I dont blame her family for getting emotional about keeping her alive. If it was my loved one it is entirely possible that with every muscle spasm, every eye twitch, every involuntary facial expression, I would see a glimmer of what used to be there and want to hold on to it.

I do however, blame congress. To claim that after a decade of hearings and millions of dollars spent on litigation she has still not received due process is an outrage
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