Sympathy for the devil

Iraq Forum

After watching the last couple of years troubles in Iraq I was wondering if anyone had a more sympathetic view of Saddam Hussein regarding the methods he used to keep law and order?

We have ourselves after all had to resort to many of the tactics Hussein used, ie mass sweepups of men, imprisonment without trial, torture, destruction of whole areas and cities, daily bombing and destruction to try and bring about stability and peace.

Hmmmm, law and order by torture and murder. I don't think that many would be sympathetic to that kind of law enforcement, if that's what you want to all it.

Peace by terror, just doesn't sound good.

Peace by oppression doesn't sound like any kind of life either.
Saddam knew exactly what he was doing to make his family rich and murder Jews. How could anyone but h@ts look for sympathy for Saddam?

But what is the point of pecae and stability if the citizens of Iraq could not enjoy that peace because they were to scared to do anything that would upset Sadaam.

And do you honestly believe thier was pecae in Iraq? let me put it to you this way, does a 10 year war with Iran sound peceful, does an invasion of Kuwait sound pecaeful, does a no fly zone to protect Iraqs neigbours sound peaceful, does over 50 attempts on your life sound pecaeful? Sadamm may have had control on internal affairs but as far as international affairs goes he did unmesuarable harm to his people.

lodgebo: But what is the point of pecae and stability if the citizens of Iraq could not enjoy that peace because they were to scared to do anything that would upset Sadaam.

Your missing my point. If we use the same tactics as Hussein, ie torture and the fear of imprisonment without trial then we have to presume there is very good reason for us to use torture and imprisonment without trial and we must now have a better understanding of the problems Hussein faced in ruling Iraq. He had an insuregency in 91. If he had been our ally - as he was for many years previsously - we would have kept quiet about the tactics he used to crush it.

Incidentally more and more people are now returning to Britain from places like Abu Grahb, Afghanistan, Egypt, and Syria, who have been imprisoned and tortured but are now free citizens, charged with nothing. It's astonishing that we actually send unlawfully arrested suspects to Syria so they can be tortured, therefore seemingly washing our hands of any crime.

We do this to force our will on enemies deemed so dangerous that we can by-pass the rule of international law. Or in other words - because we are good, all our actions are good, even our bad actions must be good because we are good.

Hold on a minute h@ts. It would seem that you are comparing the US to the likes of Saddam’s regime? That’s preposterous.

First, Saddam was under threat because he made many enemies through the same violence he employed to keep his reign. One of the first things he did after gaining rule in the late 70’s was to kill everyone he “THOUGHT” would be a problem for him. Living like that, anyone would be a fool not to look over their backs to see who is coming if not for revenge, would be the next “him” who would kill him under similar circumstances.

Although the US has done some things under questionable tactics, which were done under the military in war, not to our own civilians, we are in no ways anything like the past regime of Saddam who deserves nothing less than death in my opinion.

Saddam was brutal. There was no room for anyone to think independently or death would certainly come knocking. He ruled through fear, torture and death. He ripped of his people blind. He ruled under a brutal autocracy that resembles little to the democracies of other free countries and his tactics were deployed on his own people, regular civilians. He and his sons raped and killed if anyone dared to protest and had little respect for human life.

I agree, the US kept quiet because we had our agendas, however Saddam brought about his own demise through the inability to adapt to change. He was brutally selfish and deserved everything he’s gotten in the past to over-though him.

If you think we are something of the same animal, just look at the many Iraqis who’ve escaped Iraq under Saddam’s regime and now live in the US. That alone speaks volumes.

We are not a perfect country and certainly don’t always practice what we preach. However the likes of a Saddam isn’t in the same stratosphere as a US when it comes to torture and brutalizing humanity. He deserves nothing by way of sympathies. Certainly it is much more than he afforded his own people by light-years.

He managed peace and stability? Where have you been? He murdered an average of 1200 people each month for 30 years. That's your idea of peace?
Invading Kuwait and mudering and raping everything in sight is not stability.

No change here. Saddam must meet his maker.

oneofpeace: Hold on a minute h@ts. It would seem that you are comparing the US to the likes of Saddam’s regime? That’s preposterous.

I'm not comparing America with Iraq under Saddam Hussein. I'm compairing his use of torture and arrest and imprisonment without trial with our use of torture and arrest and imprisonment without trial. Ask yourself why we use torture and why Hussein used torture? Forget the rights and wrongs of his regime. I was interested to know if our use of torture to bring Iraqis under control has effected anyone's thinking on Hussein, who did succeed in controling Iraq resistance to his rule through fear, torture and persecution. Can we do it too, even if we don't do it as much?

First, Saddam was under threat because he made many enemies through the same violence he employed to keep his reign.

US governments have made far more enemies than Hussein ever made. The US has not been attacked by a country since WWII only because it's such a militarily powerful nation and is best buddies with most of the other powerful nations of Europe.

One of the first things he did after gaining rule in the late 70’s was to kill everyone he “THOUGHT” would be a problem for him. Living like that, anyone would be a fool not to look over their backs to see who is coming if not for revenge, would be the next “him” who would kill him under similar circumstances.

He killed everyone he thought was a problem, but many of these people were from a list supplied to him by the CIA. We can't take the high moral high ground regarding Hussein's orignal purges when he got into power.

I've got to mention what happened last year to the British diplomat in Uzbekistan. He tried his best to bring to light the attrocities going on there, and they are equally as bad as anything Hussein did to people in Iraq, and what was Blair's response? Blair sacked the diplomat.

The so-called CIA list didn't include school girls I am sure, or the butcher, baker, mechanic, teacher, etc, etc,.