I was sent this email from a friend and wanted to pass it along. This song is supposed to be a joke but ironically it is very much a morbid reality.
Americans wonder why a large percentage of the world "hates" us. Don't kid yourself by thinking it is because they are jealous of what Americans have. It is because the US Government's foreign policy sucks!
Enjoy the song!
To the tune of "If you're happy and you know it"
If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq. If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky, Pakistan is looking shifty, North Korea is too risky, Bomb Iraq.
If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq. If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq. So to hell with the inspections, Let's look tough for the
elections, Close your mind and take directions, Bomb Iraq.
It's "pre-emptive non-aggression", bomb Iraq. Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq. They've got weapons we can't see, And that's good
enough for me 'Cos it's all the proof I need, Bomb Iraq.
If you never were elected, bomb Iraq. If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq. If you think Saddam's gone mad, With the weapons that he had, (And
he tried to kill your dad), Bomb Iraq.
If your corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq. If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq. If your politics are sleazy, And hiding that ain't
easy, And your manhood's getting queasy, Bomb Iraq.
Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq. For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq. Disagree? We'll call it treason, Let's make war not
love this season, Even if we have no reason, Bomb Iraq.
What an anti-american song....u types of people make me sick. This guy is a mad man and needs to be taken out before he kills MORE people...he kills his own people..u know he hates countries like Isreil...or however it is spelled...as soon as he develops a nuclear weapon he will not hesitate to use it...even on his own people (he already has gased them) taking out saddam is going to be good for the world...and who cares if the Arab nations hate us anyway... stop playing the game of politics and look at this situation again.
Originally posted by Caps#1 What an anti-american song....u types of people make me sick. This guy is a mad man and needs to be taken out before he kills MORE people...he kills his own people..u know he hates countries like Isreil...or however it is spelled...as soon as he develops a nuclear weapon he will not hesitate to use it...even on his own people (he already has gased them) taking out saddam is going to be good for the world...and who cares if the Arab nations hate us anyway... stop playing the game of politics and look at this situation again.
You say Saddam gassed some people? Yes, but he have done it with american help. The USA payed him in the same year 500.000.000 Dollars and in the next year 1 Billion.
Say me why?
You say who cares if the Arabs hate you anyway? See the New York people who died in cause of Arab-hate. They cares...
Terror turns into counterterror and war turns into terror, too. Where will it all stop?
ok....let me explain my statement to you in lame mans terms....what I mean by who cares if the Arab world hates us is who cares if they think we are doing the right thing or not, who cares if they don't want to help us do something...the point is they hate us and will always say and do the opposite we do...and the US did not pay him so he could gas his people...
Let's hold up the protestor signs "Give tyranny a CHANCE!"
Long live the Death Saddam brings to his own people."
That's what the signs should say.
First: Nice song - it shows what kind of heart you have by placing the blame on ALL of us. With you loving song, I'm assuming your not up to date on the millions of homeless and then poor people dying on the streets every year in the U.S.A. YET - we help the starving people of other countries FIRST. before out own.
Second: Everyone knows that Saddam is a dictator who has his head so far up his own arse, you can't tell what he is sitting on.
He has his picture every where and I bet he looks at his own naked pictures rather then women during happy hour.
Third: There are defectors who say IRAQ does have weapons that he will not destroy - such as mustard Gas and VX.
Fourth: I didn't get the chance to vote for PRESIDENT because of work. How does that hold me accounable for my president's actions? It doesn't. point blank. But if that happened in IRAQ - I would probably be dead right now thanks to the loving leader.
This can be found on several news site - but it is hard to find.
Look in australia and on "The scotsman." I've posted it before but it doesn't seem you read it.
SADDAM Hussein's senior bodyguard has fled with details of Iraq's secret
arsenal.
His revelations have supported US President George W. Bush's claim there is
enough evidence from UN inspectors to justify going to war.
Abu Hamdi Mahmoud has provided Israeli intelligence with a list of sites
that the inspectors have not visited.
They include:
AN underground chemical weapons facility at the southern end of the Jadray
Peninsula in Baghdad;
A SCUD assembly area near Ramadi. The missiles come from North Korea;
TWO underground bunkers in Iraq's Western Desert. These contain biological
weapons.
William Tierney, a former UN weapons inspector who has continued to gather
information on Saddam's arsenal, said Mahmoud's information is "the smoking
gun".
"Once the inspectors go to where Mahmoud has pointed them, then it's all
over for Saddam," Tierney said.
Tierney, who has high-level contacts in Washington that go to the White
House, said the information we publish today on Mahmoud's revelations
"checks out, absolutely checks out".
Mahmoud was a mem ber of the elite unit that protects Saddam.
It is called the Murasiq Qun _ the "Inner Circle".
He was known as "The Gatekeeper".
Mahmoud is a muscular Saddam lookalike often photographed standing behind
Saddam when he is seated, or to his left when on the move.
Last week, Mahmoud was being debriefed at a high-security base in Israel's
Negev Desert.
Ariel Sharon, the country's hard-line prime minister, has only allowed
snippets of Mahmoud's sensational claims to be shared with the CIA and MI6.
"Sharon intends to shatter the growing anti-war movement," a source close to
Mr Sharon said.
"He plans to call all those European leaders who are wavering to let them
know how Saddam has continued to fool Hans Blix and his weapons inspectors."
Mahmoud's revelations include locations of five bunkers buried beneath
man-made sand dunes.
Stockpiled in the bunkers are warheads identical to the empty shell cases
found two weeks ago by the UN inspectors.
Mahmoud said those shells were on their way to be refilled and stored in the
bunkers.
A transcript from his debriefing includes:
"Saddam's weapons of mass destruction are also concealed in a tunnel complex
deep beneath the sewers of Baghdad and in an underground complex in Ouja, to
the north of Tikrit.
"The complex was built five years ago with help from Chinese engineers.
"The entrance to the site is through a house in Tikrit. It is the home of
one of Saddam's cousins and is more than half a mile from where the weapons
are stored."
In another excerpt from his debriefing, Mahmoud boasts: "I was inside the
innermost circle where Saddam eats and sleeps.
"I was among the handful of bodyguards closest to him.
"Very few people are allowed close to Saddam.
"Many of the TV images you see of him were taken years ago. Most people now
only speak to him over the phone. He usually calls them.
"If they have to call him back with information he wants, it is passed
through his sons (Uday and Qusay) or (Deputy Prime Minister) Tariq Aziz.
"All those close to him have codes, which they use to access the outer
circle. But even they can only come so close to Saddam before there is a
cut-off point _ the Inner Circle. Even Tariq Aziz is checked to see if he is
carrying weapons.
"Saddam knows fortunes are being offered to have him assassinated."
Saddam's paranoia increased after Uday, his eldest son, narrowly escaped
assassination when gunmen riddled his car with bullets in 1996. Uday was
partially paralysed and uses a wheelchair.
To avoid falling victim to even his own bodyguards, Saddam is a walking
arsenal.
"He has concealed guns all over his body," Mahmoud said.
"He also has panic buttons to press if he even suspects somebody is about to
attack him."
Israeli intelligence sources have hinted that the deal with Mahmoud included
smuggling his family out of Iraq.
Mossad agents have done this before.
At the start of Saddam's reign of terror, they persuaded an Iraqi pilot to
fly his Russian fighter to Israel _ after spiriting out his wife and
children.
you can find many more if you look at the news.
You live in a fake world if you believe Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. The CIA and Israel agencies have found links - I'll let you try to look it up - but then again, you wouldn't change your mind even if when you find it's true.
I donīt agree with the US at all, I see US as a very unfair "dad" that is feared by all the world. Everybody is AFRAID of the US, because it can seem very "kind" (all the world realizes it isnīt because US "cares" for us, but the rest of the worldf is not that stupid either, and take advantage of this "care") but when something bothers the US, then it has to be fixed in ANY way, because "american" pride is TOO BIG . I thought it was understood by US people that the world doesnīt believe anything of what the usa does, because it has demonstrated to the world by its beginning that it does just what itīs better for it, and that it doesnīt give a **** for the rest of the world. Of course it seems like it does, because it "helps" the world...it does that for the only reason that it needs the rest of the world to be bigger and stronger, but if the rest of the world doesnīt want to help the US, it would somehow (we alreeady know how) MAKE the world help it. I canīt believe how a government can mnipulate things the way the way the us does.
I donīt blame people of the Unidet states, because they just are raised with that US pride, is something the country puts in their heads and theyīre so blind (of course not all, there are a lot of people (it seems less than a half though) that are intelligent and that have a person integrity, not an "american integrity" and can realize that the US is just one more country and yes, is the most powerful contry at this time, but that doesnīt give it the right to do whatever it wants with the rest of the world. I grow up in a world where all is about the US, and I was blind seeing and thinking that the US was the best of the best, but when I grow up I realized that the US isnīt that way, and there are people that are too blind inside it. Iīm sorry for the people inside the US that are victims, because they donīt agree with the things the us does, but are blamed in some way just because theyīre americans. I respect and know the fact that inside that country there are lots of good people. But I hate the people that are so blind, that are so patriots, when thatīs not important at all, weīre all humans, not countries, we all have the same right to live, and we shouldnīt pay because of the fault of a few that are so blind and have so much to learn.
Originally posted by CenturyChild Iīm sorry for the people inside the US that are victims, because they donīt agree with the things the us does, but are blamed in some way just because theyīre americans.
Consider that these "victims" are likely too busy to ever getting around to acknowledging your consideration because they're off playing in the stock market, running their own business from their posh home on a hill, enjoying writing books with their freedom of speech, taking their children with them on walks through the park, eating abundant amounts of food on their tables, and/or doing just about whatever the hell they please - because they're Americans - and they'll get over it.
You call them victims? If they're victims - they can LEAVE this country which affords them all of the things they take advantage of every day - things that wouldn't otherwise exist if not for the events they protest. I'd rather not share space with that sort of victim - that sort of victim is short-sighted enough to never realize that all they are is just another breed of coward.
Consider that these "victims" are likely too busy to ever getting around to acknowledging your consideration because they're off playing in the stock market, running their own business from their posh home on a hill, enjoying writing books with their freedom of speech, taking their children with them on walks through the park, eating abundant amounts of food on their tables, and/or doing just about whatever the hell they please - because they're Americans - and they'll get over it.
You call them victims? If they're victims - they can LEAVE this country which affords them all of the things they take advantage of every day - things that wouldn't otherwise exist if not for the events they protest. I'd rather not share space with that sort of victim - that sort of victim is short-sighted enough to never realize that all they are is just another breed of coward.
I call victims the people that havenīt that stupid and exagerated "american pride", that arenīt guilty of what the country does, that donīt agree with its politics, but still is american and has to live with the fact that the world will prejudge him/her just because that person id from the usa. The same that happens with german people, they are in many cases prejudged because of what Hitler did. It doesnīt matter if the person is rich or poor, black, white, red, green, etc. Iīm not saying at all that the people that havenīt the oportunity to realize how senseless is that exagerated american pride, is guilty or something. I said thatīs not their fault, theyīre raised like that. But Iīm sorry for the people that realize that and canīt do anything against that judgement of the rest of the world. The rest of the world sees the americans (sorry, but this is a sad truth, and I know that no one can generalize, but it is what a lot of people think about americans) as people without human sense, that are blind to how unfair the US is in a lot of aspects, that think that theyīre the most important people of the world, that have an unconditional "love" to their country. I think that kind of people should be tought to be humble, thatīs one of the most important things in a honest person. People should realize that a country is nothing. Just think of how many inocent people is going to die just because of a stupid pride, of the selfishness of a stupidly little quantity of people. No one named the US the god of the world, it shouldnīt make a worldīs justice the way it wants. No one needs the stupid reasons to that war, everybody knows the real reasons. The Us is not above anyone, and if it does something, time will punish them anyway. Everything balances by itself, thereīs no doubt about it. I think all the world knows that this step is senseless, that it isnīt necessary, but some are too afraid to say that.
Maybe we should stop supporting all the people in those countries that don't like us. All the financial aid the they fail to repay. All the food that they don't pay for. All the medical aid and drugs that we just give away. A war in Iraq is likely to cost us over $80 Billion and may cost upward of $250 Billion. That doesn't include what it will cost us when the war is over and we start feeding and caring for the rest of the Iraqi's. Some of our friends will help us I'm sure.
But you know what? We will continue to feed and provide medical supplies and financial aid to the world including a great majority of those who say that they hate us.
Oh and by the way, to say that you hate Americans you are saying that you hate yourself. Because Americans are from every country of the world.
Maybe we should stop supporting all the people in those countries that don't like us. All the financial aid the they fail to repay. All the food that they don't pay for. All the medical aid and drugs that we just give away. A war in Iraq is likely to cost us over $80 Billion and may cost upward of $250 Billion. That doesn't include what it will cost us when the war is over and we start feeding and caring for the rest of the Iraqi's. Some of our friends will help us I'm sure.
But you know what? We will continue to feed and provide medical supplies and financial aid to the world including a great majority of those who say that they hate us.
Oh and by the way, to say that you hate Americans you are saying that you hate yourself. Because Americans are from every country of the world.
I assume youīre talking to me...if youīre not, then forgive me. Now thatīs the pride that I hate so much, the one that youīre showing. You feel like the US is the "supporter" of the world, there are a lot of important countries in this world besides the US (important in the economical sense). Of course the US is important, and yes, the countries need it, but donīt come and say the US does it because it cares about the rest of ther countries. There are economical and political interests in what it does, and the world is not stupid, everybody realizes that. And Iīm here talking about the government, not about the US people. What I donīt understand is that unconditional love that they have, that feeling about their country that they have. Is something like: 1š US 2š the family. With that pride they feel superior to every other country, and that is something so stupid and made up, something that has no base, is like loving a table. No country is better than other country, because all humans are humans, US people are humans, canadian people are humans, mexican people are humans, all the people in America, all the people in the whole world are humans. Countries are like religions, they turn everybody appart, separates us. Why US people are always saying "Iīm so generous because Iīm american", "Iīm so opened minded bnecause Iīm american"...maybe those things are really the total opposite...AND, when I said before in my posts "americans" I did it almost all the time with "", and thatīs because they call themself americans. Thatīs another thing that should change, americans are all the countries in America, and the US people is the US people. AND finally, if the UN decides that thereīs not going to be a war, it has to be that way and the US is NOTHING to do other thing. If the US does something like that, it WILL have consequences, believe me...and if you wanna laugh or think what Iīm saying is stupid, I donīt care at all, because neither me nor you are going to change that fact.
CenturyChild - I hear & respect your viewpoint; I can certainly see and appreciate the perspective. Indeed there are probably quite a number of disallusioned in this country who think and say things that are somehow rationalized in their minds, but by any level of logic don't really make much sense at all. But what can you do, right?
But as for these other things...
quote:
Thatīs another thing that should change, americans are all the countries in America, and the US people is the US people.
I disagree. The United States of America has been identified by the shorter name of "America" for hundreds of years. That is not about to change, despite increasingly popular dissenting opinions from the citizens of other countries in "The Americas". Nor should this change just to suit their ideals of political correctness.
The USA. is a country on the continent of North America. But we like to call ourselves Americans. Canadians on the other hand, also from a country in North America, do not wish to be called Americans. There is another place in the world where this happens. There is a continent called Australia and there is a country called Australia on that continent, the citizens of which prefer to be identified as "Australians". There is another country associated with that continent; it's called New Zealand. New Zealanders do not prefer to be called Australians.
Take it or leave it, it's here to stay, so don't expect changes. I doubt there are any other nations on the American continents who would enjoy being referred to as "Americans" any how.
quote:
AND finally, if the UN decides that thereīs not going to be a war, it has to be that way and the US is NOTHING to do other thing. If the US does something like that, it WILL have consequences, believe me...
While the approval of the United Nations would be pleasant for the sake of keeping face & public relations, it is not required for the U.S. to engage in combat however they see fit. While I'm not entirely convinced of the properness of this little war just yet, I don't think that the actions of this country, nor any other for that matter, are directly dictated by the U.N. Where in our constitution does it say that the U.N. is permitted to operate our political affairs? Where in our judicial or legislative or executive branches? Nowhere, that's where..
I've heard that the U.S. is prepared to make their move regardless of support from the U.N. - while that seems appropriate to me, I still question some of the legitimacy of the U.S.' claims and motives for an all-out battle / enforced regime change..
First I don't need a geography lesson. Second I didn't direct this to any on person or country in particular. I'm sorry if you think we are arogant.
Unconditional love of our country? It's called pride. I have it and a lot of others have it as well. Do you not have pride for your country? Not all people in the U.S. have that same pride. Some choose to turn their back when our Nation Anthem is played. That's their right.
And no we don't feel superior to other people in the world. We do feel equal though. And tell me, what is wrong with that. What is wrong with Americans caring about other people in other countries. We have a lot of wealth and food. What's wrong with us giving it to those in need?
You know we have a lot of American's from South America here too. Wait did I say South America? I guess you are an American too.
All I was saying is that if those other countries hate us so much maybe we should cut off relations. I didn't imagine for one instance that it included the people of Chili. In fact except for not support us on the war issue I thought we were friends.
You will need to explain this to me, I don't get it.
quote:
Countries are like religions, they turn everybody appart, separates us.
And if anyone knows about the different countries of the Americas it's me. My wife was raised in Equador, my sister-in-law was born in Chili and my Stepson is dating a girl from Cuba.
Now I wish we could all live in harmony. It would be nice if we heard of the generosities of other countries but we don't. Why is that? Since we don't here about that here how about you tell me of some of the things that Chili has done for the Iraqi's, the Afgans, the Africans or maybe the giving that Chili does in South America.
At least goots and Dreamzwalker see the way I do....CenturyChild HOW DARE YOU....first off we are the main supporter of the world. Second off the UN is useless....the US needs to get out of them, they don't help us anyway...besides look at what we get in return for all of our help...we have to pay Turkey 26 billion to help us nd they still won't...we rebuilt all of Europe after the war...which we shouldn't have....the only country that is helping us is Britian and Spain. Screw everyone else, Mexico, France, Germany, etc. and the last thing I have to say is once again HOW DARE YOU.
Hold on Caps I'm glad you support GWB but the U.N. does a lot of good throughout the world. I know there is a lot of talk that the U.N. may be irrelevant. Hell I got a herd of irrelevants. I don't want to see that unless there is something better and right now there isn't. I do think that having those permanent provides some balance. However it does seem that France Russia and China are always against military intervention. Especially in the Persian Gulf. I don't understand why they can't see the threat.
Oh and it looks like Turkey isn't getting the $26 bil and we are going to have to nix that idea. The Turkey stock market really took a dump today because of it.
And about screwing everyone else, I don't think that. Some of these countries are our good friends. I think that they in general like us but don't like our government and policies and I respect their right to disagree. I really hate to see bashing on either side.
So I respect their views but wish they would see it our way.
Originally posted by Caps#1 At least goots and Dreamzwalker see the way I do....CenturyChild HOW DARE YOU....first off we are the main supporter of the world. Second off the UN is useless....the US needs to get out of them, they don't help us anyway...besides look at what we get in return for all of our help...we have to pay Turkey 26 billion to help us nd they still won't...we rebuilt all of Europe after the war...which we shouldn't have....the only country that is helping us is Britian and Spain. Screw everyone else, Mexico, France, Germany, etc. and the last thing I have to say is once again HOW DARE YOU.
Well, maybe you two arenīt the way I say, Goots and Sean Kelly, but THIS abouve shows the arroogance Iīm talking about, and thatīs all Iīm going to say about that matter.
About what you said of being friends, I didnīt actually know that we were friends, I mean, we have almost the same relationship that we have with the other countries, I didnīt know it was something special or something...anyway, I like the US people, but I canīt believe why so many people can support something so horrible and senseless as this war. Everything we hear are excuses and excuses, the US government (at least the people in it that support this war) is deaf, is blind. Bush, as the president, should be the most objective person of the US, but he isnīt, and is a person thatīs putting pride above a lot of innocent people, giving as an excuse the things we hear on the news. He shouldnīt be a revolutionary, he should really care about other human beings. Héīs blind. And Iīm sorry if we didnīt support the war, but we support the peaceful way of doing things. We havenīt the fault that the US is being ruled by a child. Weīre talking about a country full of inocent people, a country is made by its people and not by its government. The US is going to attack Iraq having a few as an objective, but giving a **** about how many innocent lives have to pay for it. If youīre human beings, you should understand what Iīm talking about.
About the "americans" term, I keep thinking the way I think it should be, but I know itīs not going to change, so I donīt care. After all, is something without a big importance, something trivial.
Anyway, the question is, ŋwhy do we have to look at "americans" with love and understanding (thing that we do though, with US people that is innocent like all of us), when the US doesnīt do it with the other innocent people of other countries? I have to assume (although Iīm already sure) that if Bush had problems with the president of my country, lagos, he wouldnīt care about all of us and he would kill us all? Yes, I assume that, and I put myself in the case of the people in Iraq. Thank God I wasnīt born there, but how many people did? How many people that, if they could have had the opportunity of saying the same things Iīm saying right now, under another circumstances (like mines right now), would have said the same things I just said? The same goes to all of you. Nothing justifies this war, there are other means to do what has to be done, a war is not going to help anyone.
I hope youīre not that blind, try to understand my words a little, try not to come up with the "you hate us americans" again, because is not true, weīre all the same, but I think youīre the ones that need to realize that. As I said before, I know (I really do) that there are a LOT of people inside the US that realizes this, and I really hope the people that donīt relizes that is going to do it someday. This world belongs to all of us (and by that I mean every being of this world, not just humans), and Iīm sure this is not the way of gaining wisdom and live in peace. We have all the past experiences, we already know what does a war, we know what causes as consequences. If we make that mistake again, is not going because of our ignorance, is going to be a cruel and too quick way of acting. Maybe we are a lost case, we donīt have wisdom, we donīt even know what the hell means that word. We should know, but we donīt, and thatīs it. Destiny gave us opportunities, experiences, but we DIDNīT learn ANYTHING. We are the most intelligent specie of the world? I think weīre too stupid for that title.
CenturyChild - last I heard, genocide was not part of the U.S. strategy for victory in Iraq. Not only is it a military operation, there are reports that even the military doesn't plan much resistance (if any) and that the people all welcome the end of tyranny. This whole thing might be over before it's even begun - it doesn't get any more ideal than that. You make it sound like we're going in with steam-rollers, prepared to flatten anything and everything, but that's not the goal.
As for Caps #1 - PLEASE don't let him represent our entire nation in your mind
hmmm - nice words CenturyChild. I sense a lot of anger and spiteful words coming from you for americans. I won't say "you hate them" but it would be better to debate without hostilities towards them.
- The world protests against war each and every time one comes to exist. Regardless of what the people say, they can do little.
Perhaps innocent people will die. People are stating "what about the children? Don't you care?" Yeah, I care and that's why Saddam needs to move on or be forced to move on. His brother rapes 12 year olds - How do you feel about that?
Many Iraqi people want him removed.
The world is full of stupidity and ignorance - and to allow a person like Saddam to keep giving the UN candy needs to stop. He has done it for years and continues to do so. There ARE terrorist camps that he provides sanctuary too. This has been proven. A census of Iraq also shows nearly 16,000 people missing. Can't be accounted for. I wonder how that came to pass...
ya know what Sean...i bet I do represent the views of most of this nation...just because you don't agree with what I said does not mean that I lot of other people do too.
AND CENTURYCHILD if you have any sense...you will see that this guy kills his own people....don't give me that crap about a horrible and senseless war....how is it? We are freeing the people from Saddam's rule....they want this war. They want to be free like us...you know if they say anything against him they and their whole family would be killed. I agree, war is not pretty...but we must go...we have had 17 UN resolutions....now maybe an 18th...he has broken all of them. We asked him to step down...he won't. There has been years and years of lie after lie. Do you want to leave him alone so he can make a chemical attack and kill lots of people? He has anthrax...he admitted it in 1995. None of this anthrax has been accounted for. doing nothing and leaving him in power could make a nasty future for all of us. How? Nothing is stopping him from giving these chemicals to terrorist organizations, nothing is stopping him from telling one of his citizens to do it or he will kill them. What if your country was attacked by terrorists like him....(he supports terrorists by the way) would you have the same view then? What if your country had thousands of innocent civilians killed for no reason other than HATE? We are trying to make the world a better place. and the saddest thing of all is a 15 year old can see it better than some adults. and by the way goots I did not mean that you share my opinion about other countries I was talking about you support my opinion that we should go to war.
Originally posted by Caps#1 AND CENTURYCHILD if you have any sense...you will see that this guy kills his own people....don't give me that crap about a horrible and senseless war....how is it? We are freeing the people from Saddam's rule....they want this war. They want to be free like us...you know if they say anything against him they and their whole family would be killed. I agree, war is not pretty...but we must go...we have had 17 UN resolutions....now maybe an 18th...he has broken all of them. We asked him to step down...he won't. There has been years and years of lie after lie. Do you want to leave him alone so he can make a chemical attack and kill lots of people? He has anthrax...he admitted it in 1995. None of this anthrax has been accounted for. doing nothing and leaving him in power could make a nasty future for all of us. How? Nothing is stopping him from giving these chemicals to terrorist organizations, nothing is stopping him from telling one of his citizens to do it or he will kill them. What if your country was attacked by terrorists like him....(he supports terrorists by the way) would you have the same view then? What if your country had thousands of innocent civilians killed for no reason other than HATE? We are trying to make the world a better place. and the saddest thing of all is a 15 year old can see it better than some adults. and by the way goots I did not mean that you share my opinion about other countries I was talking about you support my opinion that we should go to war.
I think a war isnīt the answer, weīre supposed to be "civilized" people...and it wouldnīt be very intelligent...as you say, they have anthrax, so you can imagine what will happen with a war...
AND, innocent US people worth the same than innocent people from Iraq, so I donīt think they should die for the others... Is a very coward thing to sacrifice other people thatīs not you to reach an objective thatīs yours, if you understand what I mean. And by that I mean your own people, and all the people thatīs going to die. Donīt come and say "hey, youīre making a big deal, no one innocent is going to die" because you know thatīs not true, and I make a big deal because it IS. At least, a soldier has a little more right to say what youīre saying, because heīs going to risk his ass, youīre going to watch the whole thing safe, at home, like watching a long movie.
CentruyChild - I have friends in the Army. Some that will be the front line and the first wave. They believe in what they are doing more then ANY of us debating in here - and know more then the media will ever get the chance to say.
And before you ask - yes, they do have fears about getting shot or worse. Yet they feel honored to liberate a country from a Socialist dictator who spends all the humanitarian money building his 80 billion dollar palaces and summer homes.
CenturyChild
War is not pretty and yes innocent people are going to die but they are not the target at least on our side. I can't say for what will happen on Saddam's side.
The U.S./U.K and our allies have tried diplomacy for many years now and that doesn't seem to be working. The U.N. has been inspecting Iraq for many years and that doesn't seem to be working.
So what is the answer, unlimited inspections (YEARS) while Saddam secretly continues his WMD program? What will that cost? What is the cost if he decides to use his WMD? What is the cost if he gets a nuclear weapon from N. Korea?
Originally posted by Dreamzwalker CentruyChild - I have friends in the Army. Some that will be the front line and the first wave. They believe in what they are doing more then ANY of us debating in here - and know more then the media will ever get the chance to say.
And before you ask - yes, they do have fears about getting shot or worse. Yet they feel honored to liberate a country from a Socialist dictator who spends all the humanitarian money building his 80 billion dollar palaces and summer homes.
yeah, I think, as I said before, that your friends have more right to have that opinion, because theyīre going to go, fight, and probably die.
Anyone here can be right or wrong, but I think, and Iīm sure, that the reasons of the US to have this war isnīt to free that country, and all of us know that. I think is hypocritical to deny that. This war has nice "ideals" as the excuses, but there are selfish reasons, hidden interests (more than "hidden" I think theyīre obvious). No one thatīs innocent has to die, and thatīs the absolute truth. No human being is superior to other, no one can decide the future of the others, not even is he says that" has very good reasons". Love is about sacrifice, thatīs absolutely right, but the person that decides whatīs going to be his/her sacrifice is the person in question and no one else. NO ONE, can justify to kill people. NO ONE can "sacrifice" other people, thatīs the most coward thing that Iīve heard. You say that some innocent people has to die, but that is going to be for the good of the country or the world...thatīs stupid, meaningless, cruel, coward, ignorant. Thereīs no reason in the world to sacrifice people that donīt want to be sacrificed...people that some capricious idiots think that they worth being sacrificed. NO! And the excuses that are given until now about this issue on the news, everywhere, make me wanna trow up. Some people are just sick, or maybe too blind.
You do have some strong points - how many innocent people died when a terrorist group flew into the Twin Towers? Saddam may not had anything to do with that directly, BUT he did indirectly by harboring terrorist groups. You can find that on government sites around the web. Al-Quada is one of the groups that has been provided sanctuary before.
and....probably die? Most troops that we send over will not die, this is just going to be another war like the one we are fighting with Afganistan. You just don't get it CenturyChild. The world is not a nice place. Get out of your fantasy world and into the real one. This world is full of hate...there is no way other than war, saddam made it that way, you talk about innocent lives being lost, what if he brings his anthrax over here and releases it into a stadium with 100,000 people? I don't and the US doesn't want to take that risk, that is why we are doing it, to protects ourselves. and once again, you never anwsered my questions what country you live in? and as I stated before, I believe you would have a different opinion if your country was attacked wouldn't u?
Originally posted by Dreamzwalker You do have some strong points - how many innocent people died when a terrorist group flew into the Twin Towers? Saddam may not had anything to do with that directly, BUT he did indirectly by harboring terrorist groups. You can find that on government sites around the web. Al-Quada is one of the groups that has been provided sanctuary before.
I was kind of expecting that comment. Do innocent people from Iraq have the fault, or have to pay, because of another innocent people? Yeah, that day died a lot of innocent people, and I was sad and angry because of that, it was really impacting. But I donīt want more innocent people to die, and thatīs exactly what will happen if this war is started.
You really do not get it. Why do you keep referring to the innocent civilains of Iraq. You talk like we are going over there to kill them, instead of Saddam and his army. We would never ever intentionally hurt/kill a civilian. The man KILLS HIS OWN PEOPLE. he gases them, tortures them, etc. I don't understand how people can make the reference that innocent Iraq people will suffer. They are probably waiting to hear the word that we are attacking so that they can help us!!!
Originally posted by Caps#1 and....probably die? Most troops that we send over will not die, this is just going to be another war like the one we are fighting with Afganistan. You just don't get it CenturyChild. The world is not a nice place. Get out of your fantasy world and into the real one. This world is full of hate...there is no way other than war, saddam made it that way, you talk about innocent lives being lost, what if he brings his anthrax over here and releases it into a stadium with 100,000 people? I don't and the US doesn't want to take that risk, that is why we are doing it, to protects ourselves. and once again, you never anwsered my questions what country you live in? and as I stated before, I believe you would have a different opinion if your country was attacked wouldn't u?
Well well, you asked me many questions, the first one was...how do I dare...well, that one doesnīt deserve an answer...
quote:
Originally posted by Caps#1
The world is not a nice place. Get out of your fantasy world and into the real one. This world is full of hate...there is no way other than war, saddam made it that way, you talk about innocent lives being lost, what if he brings his anthrax over here and releases it into a stadium with 100,000 people? [/B]
yeah, the world is not a nice place, because there are too many selfish people that worry only for themselves, that kill other people because they feel in some way superior to them. If you think that innocent people from Iraq has to die to save innocent lives from US, then youīre putting US people in a superior level than the others. About the anthrax in a stadium full of people, I donīt want even imagine that tragedy, and I donīt know how would I react and think. Is normal to hate someone that hurts you in that way, but a government has to be objective, they are not there to be normal people that are guided by the emotions as any of us, theyīre ruling a country and are obligated to see whatīs really right, because they can cause a lot of pain if they donīt think well what theyīre going to do. Itīs sad what happens to people killed by terrorist attacks, but is not much different than other innocent people killed because of other reasons, that I think are not the reasons that are known openly.
quote:
Originally posted by Caps#1
you will see that this guy kills his own people....don't give me that crap about a horrible and senseless war....how is it? We are freeing the people from Saddam's rule....they want this war. They want to be free like us...you know if they say anything against him they and their whole family would be killed. I agree, war is not pretty...but we must go...we have had 17 UN resolutions....now maybe an 18th...he has broken all of them. We asked him to step down...he won't. There has been years and years of lie after lie. Do you want to leave him alone so he can make a chemical attack and kill lots of people?[/B]
that thing about freeing people I donīt believe it, itīs not the objective and thatīs clear. About Saddam, no, I donīt want to leave him alone, but we can do things in a peaceful way, and not let innocent people get involved.
I need to say this - Innocent people die everyday, either by being in the wrong place at the wrong time or through the hands of another. People can argue that innocent people will die during war - yes they do. But Saddam has killed more then 300,000 people over the last 15 years. That is not murder. This is Genocide. This war would not kill even close to that UNLESS Saddam places his people in harm's way - which he will. He tried to place "Human Shield" operations in MILITARY situations and buildings. They would be innocent and would be dead - people would say "oh, my G - look what america did!" Ding! Wrong answer. Saddam put them there knowing America would attack the facility and thus, could say America killed innocent people and that they are "Evil."
It would be wonderful if Saddam would step down and move on. I do not think he will.
moreover (gawd, did I already say this? feels like deja vu! ) ........
The U.S. armed forces do not make a habit of killing innocent civilians.
Okay, let that statement sink in a minute before you reply, CenturyChild.
The U.S. has no intention of moving into Iraq and killing all the people there. That's called genocide. We're not talking about sacrificing ANYone. There may be collateral casualties - it happens when the opponent makes strategic mistakes such as utilizing "human shields", or by establishing command/operational facilities in public schools. You think the U.S. is going to stop at the door of the school and turn away because there are innocent children in there? No. They will die. This is Saddam Hussein's doing. HE has placed their lives at risk. Had it been a military installation surrounded by nothing but military personnel, the casualties would have been limited to strictly military.
Yes, he wants to use these artificially created statistics to raise hell about how the inhuman Americans created a bloody hell hole in a shool filled with hundreds of innocent children, but the world will not turn a blind eye to Hussein's deplorable practices that made that happen. It will be clear that the U.S. is not specifically targeting civilian sites, and we will be indemnified accordingly.
This guy is sick in the head. Think about his tactics.. he needs to be taken out before he can commit further heinous acts within his own country.. and without!
---
And again, peace advocates continue to ignore the evidence that indicates that this war may be no war at all.. it's very possible that the Iraqi soldiers will welcome defeat and invite the U.S. right on in and escort us to Saddam's bed chamber. They're sick of it. They want to live in peace and prosperity and they recognize that Hussein is not making it happen for them. But they are too afraid to help themselves. In the meantime, we have to do something about the unfurling situation before he does something drastic.
Thats what I have been trying to tell CenturyChild the whole time. All he does is talk about innocent civilains getting killed. I tried to tell him that we would never intentionally kill them. CENTURYCHILD DOES NOT LISTEN!!!
Some do not understand. Vietnam - we lost many troops BECAUSE we would not kill a child. Children would run into camp and drop grenades. They made it many times with these weapons because our men, even to protect themselves, couldn't kill an innocent looking child. We do not kill innocent people if it can be helped.
Somalia (1993) is a good example. When trying extract a Warlord - there were massive crowds of civilians mixed in with gunmen. The americans, under heavy fire, had to pick and choose targets from within the crowds - or they would shoot innocent people.
Okay I don't think that the "Bomb Iraq" song was intended to be anti-american at all. So let me get this straight, if you are anti-war you are for Saddam? Who the heck made that screw up connection? Maybe it is just a song about how some people are a little confused about how Bush made his sudden leap to war. Give me a break people, the song or any song fit into something called the first ammendment! In a situation where thousands of people are going to die, attempting to apply humor to a horrible and real situation allows people to go on with life.
As for the song, I believe you can be a "Real American" without wanting to go bomb a country without the support of the world. The song does not say "all hail tyranny", it rather directs the fact the our government has put directed its efforts away from real threats to potential threats.
Saddam is an awful man and should be dealt with and if our government has the support of the rest of world, then hell, Bush go kick Saddam's ass!
But we can't ignore whhat most of the world is asking for, "TIME" and ignoring the fact that Korea and Osama are threatening us. That was jist of the song. So people think about the humor rather than thinking that in order to be a "GOOD AMERICAN" you have to be a lemming and follow whatever the government insists on without questioning its tactics. Wasn't the US founded by people who were questioning and challenging the current government and common thought? Ease up. It is just a song, we are going to go to war irregardless what a stupid song says.
Marc your song rocks too!! I love it an I am a bleeding heart liberal though am definitely not for Iraq.
And I agree Saddam is an terrorist who needs to be pulled out of Iraq with force, just I would like the UN to be the ones to okay it it first before Bush starts war. Food for thought....
Think about how our "american" lives will be like globally both socailly and econimically if we start a war without the support of our major alllies.
This is "glia", not brain I just couldn't get onto the web because the server was too slow. I give up, no matter what you say these days you'll piss off hundreds of people. So forget it, you people have no sense of humor! As for you who are for the war, great you are entitled, but look at the person next to you who isn't and ask them why they are against war, you might learn that we aren't just a bunch of bleeding heart liberals but rather just as well informed as you but we have a different opition!
Originally posted by brain . So let me get this straight, if you are anti-war you are for Saddam? Who the heck made that screw up connection?
This is an English Fallacy trying to the argument. Used everyday in news, media, movies, reading materials.
quote:
Originally posted by brain
Saddam is an awful man and should be dealt with and if our government has the support of the rest of world, then hell, Bush go kick Saddam's ass!
The world will do as the world does.
Bush didn't have to take this to the UN - but he did.
quote:
Originally posted by brain
thinking that in order to be a "GOOD AMERICAN" you have to be a lemming and follow whatever the government insists on without questioning its tactics.
I get your point, how much time... if we give him too much time then we're in trouble. But at the same time don't you think that if we go to war by ourselves we could be in heap of trouble? Remember the cold war, we don't want Russia to be against us. If we could just persaude them over we are doing pretty good.
Bush's idea of hiring a hit man was actually a pretty good one. And as a member of the UN Bush had to take it to the UN, it wasn't as though he was being gracious.
Originally posted by glia .. Remember the cold war, we don't want Russia to be against us. If we could just persaude them over we are doing pretty good..
Personally, I'm more concerned about China than any other single country as a potential adversary these days.. indeed it would be better to make big friends than big enemies..
Originally posted by goots
We are not ignoring Osama or North Korea.
We (the U.S.) and Pakistan captured Osama's #3 man a few days ago and we have Osama on the run AGAIN.
It was the US that found him - it was pakistan that arrested him.
What's funny about his interrogations though - in one session, Osama is alive; another session, he is dead.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sean kelly[i] Personally, I'm more concerned about China than any other single country as a potential adversary these days.. [QUOTE]
Could you imagine the millions of Chinese invading a country? Wouldn't stand a change
First of all, the time is up for Saddam, we have had 17 UN resolutions, allof which he has not complied with, IF THAT IS NOT GIVING PEACE A CHANCE WHAT IS? and second of all, like Dreamzwalker said, we are not ignoring Osama and north korea, we just caught that guy last week (I am not even going to attempt to spell his name). and we are in the process of dealing with North Korea in a diplomatic way just like we have been trying to do with Iraq for the past 10 years+.
Originally posted by glia I was sent this email from a friend and wanted to pass it along. This song is supposed to be a joke but ironically it is very much a morbid reality.
Americans wonder why a large percentage of the world "hates" us. Don't kid yourself by thinking it is because they are jealous of what Americans have. It is because the US Government's foreign policy sucks!
Enjoy the song!
To the tune of "If you're happy and you know it"
If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq. If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky, Pakistan is looking shifty, North Korea is too risky, Bomb Iraq.
If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq. If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq. So to hell with the inspections, Let's look tough for the
elections, Close your mind and take directions, Bomb Iraq.
It's "pre-emptive non-aggression", bomb Iraq. Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq. They've got weapons we can't see, And that's good
enough for me 'Cos it's all the proof I need, Bomb Iraq.
If you never were elected, bomb Iraq. If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq. If you think Saddam's gone mad, With the weapons that he had, (And
he tried to kill your dad), Bomb Iraq.
If your corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq. If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq. If your politics are sleazy, And hiding that ain't
easy, And your manhood's getting queasy, Bomb Iraq.
Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq. For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq. Disagree? We'll call it treason, Let's make war not
love this season, Even if we have no reason, Bomb Iraq.
That poem sums it up. I hope that it ends up in history books someday.
Yup, that sums up the fact that someone had WAY too much time on their hands -follows the rule "give tyranny a chance" and this is the third time it's been posted.
Originally posted by Caps#1 it sums up how sad liberals are
You know, we need to make a new state or possibly an island and call it conservativeville. There you can practice your idolitry of the flag and worship the president. You can execute anyone who blasphemes agaist your red, white, and blue God. On Sundays, instead of going to church, you can go to an arena and watch Fox news on a giant big screen TV. Instead of screaming "oh God" durring sex, you can scream "oh Bush, ooooh Bush!". Oh, and if any liberals are caught in conservativeville, you can burn them at the stake to prepare them for liberal hell. Sounds like heaven to you huh?
i think it should be the opposite, we get the mainland, and you the island, and yes fox news is the best, sean hannity is a good man, and alan colmes is a loser like you
Originally posted by Caps#1 i think it should be the opposite, we get the mainland, and you the island, and yes fox news is the best, sean hannity is a good man, and alan colmes is a loser like you
Good man? Since when does being a good person matter to you? You're not a good man.
Originally posted by goots Nah Liberals belong on the west coast where Berkeley and Hollyweed is and conservitives belong on the east coast where Washington, NY and Miami is.
. I thought it was understood by US people that the world doesnīt believe anything of what the usa does, because it has demonstrated to the world by its beginning that it does just what itīs better for it, and that it doesnīt give a **** for the rest of the world. Of course it seems like it does, because it "helps" the world...it does that for the only reason that it needs the rest of the world to be bigger and stronger, but if the rest of the world doesnīt want to help the US, it would somehow (we alreeady know how) MAKE the world help it. I canīt believe how a government can mnipulate things the way the way the us does. 
