Michael Moore's anti-war protest against Bush at the Oscars? |
| Posted by: DaveDom | | Michael Moore's anti-war protest against Bush at the Oscars: American hero or American villain?
And he's also making a film about Bush and Bin Laden and the 9-11 attack. I haven't seen Columbine but it's impact around the world means, as a documentary film maker, he has a very high profile and people will go to see the film in large numbers. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
Michael Moore's anti-war protest against Bush at the Oscars: American hero or American villain?
And he's also making a film about Bush and Bin Laden and the 9-11 attack. I haven't seen Columbine but it's impact around the world means, as a documentary film maker, he has a very high profile and people will go to see the film in large numbers. |
And.....the point is? Is that a question? Villian or hero? What am I supposed to comment on here?
Well I guess I shouldn't. I don't watch the Oscars. The show never did much for me.
Personally though, I would not classify him as either. The same goes for the Dixie Chicks.
As an American, I think they have every right to speak how they feel. I just think there is more appropriate times to do so.
As I have said over and over and over and over and over again...entertainment is entertainment. It should be left at that! If Micheal Moore and Natalie Maines want to speak their opinions, fine! Perhaps they should do it during a political forum and not at entertainment functions where people choose to be entertained and not politically lectured.
Get the point yet Dave?
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
And.....the point is? Is that a question? Villian or hero? What am I supposed to comment on here?
Well I guess I shouldn't. I don't watch the Oscars. The show never did much for me.
Personally though, I would not classify him as either. The same goes for the Dixie Chicks.
As an American, I think they have every right to speak how they feel. I just think there is more appropriate times to do so.
As I have said over and over and over and over and over again...entertainment is entertainment. It should be left at that! If Micheal Moore and Natalie Maines want to speak their opinions, fine! Perhaps they should do it during a political forum and not at entertainment functions where people choose to be entertained and not politically lectured.
Get the point yet Dave? |
I wasn't addressing the question to you. So whatever point it is I'm supposed to get I'm not interested. If people don't want to respond then fair enough. But what are you doing responding with this silly I'm so fed up atitude crap. It's childish.
Aksing about Moore is not the same as the Dixie Chicks, Moore is a campaigner, it's what he does. As for speaking out at entertainment functions rather than political forums I don't care where people speak out just so long as they do and Moore spoke out there because he knew he had a big audience. It's a traditional American kind of thing to do.
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| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
I wasn't addressing the question to you. So whatever point it is I'm supposed to get I'm not interested. If people don't want to respond then fair enough. But what are you doing responding with this silly I'm so fed up atitude crap. It's childish.
Aksing about Moore is not the same as the Dixie Chicks, Moore is a campaigner, it's what he does. As for speaking out at entertainment functions rather than political forums I don't care where people speak out just so long as they do and Moore spoke out there because he knew he had a big audience. It's a traditional American kind of thing to do. |
Micheal Moore is a campaigner? I must have missed something. Didn't he win an award for best documentary?
And asking about Moore, is absolutely the same as the Dixie Chicks..I hate to inform you of that.
Yes...speaking out to a big audience is a traditional American thing. But if you knew better...even the actors that are not Pro bush booed him....Okay...I mean even they thought it was not the right forum for this comment. So your argument is trite to both sides of the argument!
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
Micheal Moore is a campaigner? I must have missed something. Didn't he win an award for best documentary?
And asking about Moore, is absolutely the same as the Dixie Chicks..I hate to inform you of that.
Yes...speaking out to a big audience is a traditional American thing. But if you knew better...even the actors that are not Pro bush booed him....Okay...I mean even they thought it was not the right forum for this comment. So your argument is trite to both sides of the argument! |
Trite, good, that's at least keeping to the subject. You hate to inform me that asking about Moore is the same as the Dixie Chicks? Well feel free not to.
It doesn't seem anyone is interested in answering this question, which I was hoping would expand to questions of how people actually feel about Michael Moore (the actual purpose of my question but it would have been moved if I'd have just asked that).
Moore got booed
Anyway no one seems interested in Michael Moore so let's move on mystic. I'm not going to argue about you arguing about what I should or shouldn't ask or how I should ask it.
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| Posted by: Seek4Justice | |
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| Anyway no one seems interested in Michael Moore |
Bingo. 
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Seek4Justice
Bingo. |
Nice reaction Lets see what Michael Moores does - oh yes, he points his finger at coorporations who crap on ordinary people and rob them of their money or their health.
What do you do?
Did you lay off 1000s of workers and get some big fat bonus this year then Seek4Justice? Is that where you are coming from? Michael Moore obviously knows more about Bush than you. Maybe you should go see his movie about 9-11 when it comes out next year and learn something.
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| Posted by: grets | | based upon his Columbine movie, the TRUTH will definitely be missing from his next movie. his editing skills violated the documentary category, so much that the academy is now in a pickle- do they pull the oscar (not in our lifetime) or continue to allow violations , thus denegrating the category. he's the oliver stone of documentaries- never mind the truth, just make it to match what i want it to say! maybe it should win the fantasy category- but then you'll believe what you want to- no sense in learning the truth, right? | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted on Michael Moore.com
Well, take a look at my Oscar "backlash":
-- On the day after I criticized Bush and the war at the Academy Awards, attendance at "Bowling for Columbine" in theaters around the country went up 110% (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). The following weekend, the box office gross was up a whopping 73% (Variety). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America, 26 weeks in a row and still thriving. The number of theaters showing the film since the Oscars has INCREASED, and it has now bested the previous box office record for a documentary by nearly 300%.
-- Yesterday (April 6), "Stupid White Men" shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list. This is my book's 50th week on the list, 8 of them at number one, and this marks its fourth return to the top position, something that virtually never happens.
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| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
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LOL.......I have to laugh at this! You say Americans condemn those that speak out! Thank you for showing us "proof" that this is just not the case! Pretty much throws out your theory about how people condemn those who speak out huh?
Thanks for sharing!
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
LOL.......I have to laugh at this! You say Americans condemn those that speak out! Thank you for showing us "proof" that this is just not the case! Pretty much throws out your theory about how people condemn those who speak out huh?
Thanks for sharing! |
Please remind me of my theory about how people condemn those who speak out. It sounds interesting.
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| Posted by: photek | | i've never seen 'bowling for columbine,' but i'am willing to bet the accusations of him forging parts of the documentary are just a couple of pissed off, obsessive pro-war people.
i have absolutely nothing against the guy, nor his comments, i just think he has no idea what he's talking about. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by gdog
Discussing this man brings the bile up in the back of my throat.
Moore watch |
Before you posted the Moorewatch link did you look round the site. I can't be bothered trawling through such a badly laid out page. If you've actually got anything on Moore please post the important bits here and I'll be quite happy to read them.
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| Posted by: Search4Truth | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
LOL.......I have to laugh at this! You say Americans condemn those that speak out! Thank you for showing us "proof" that this is just not the case! Pretty much throws out your theory about how people condemn those who speak out huh?
Thanks for sharing! |
NO wrong again Mystic
Most Americans don't condemn people for speaking this is true, but right-wing conservatives and the media do condemn people for speaking up
Pretty much throws your theory out huh??
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| Posted by: gdog | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
Before you posted the Moorewatch link did you look round the site. I can't be bothered trawling through such a badly laid out page. If you've actually got anything on Moore please post the important bits here and I'll be quite happy to read them. |
Its not my job to educate you. You've filled your own head with fantasy and rhetoric. Just trying to provide you an outlet with a little truth. Im sure you'll prove to be far too busy to bother with reality when fantasy provides so much more post fodder.
carry on with your delusions.
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| Posted by: photek | | Originally posted by DaveDom
Before you posted the Moorewatch link did you look round the site. I can't be bothered trawling through such a badly laid out page. If you've actually got anything on Moore please post the important bits here and I'll be quite happy to read them.
um..you started this thread. you should know 'the important bits.' if not then you should have made this thread a 'work in progress' and kept it to yourself until you knew 'the important bits.' | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by gdog
Its not my job to educate you. You've filled your own head with fantasy and rhetoric. Just trying to provide you an outlet with a little truth. Im sure you'll prove to be far too busy to bother with reality when fantasy provides so much more post fodder.
carry on with your delusions. |
I guess you didn't read it then. You war-fans are getting funnier and funnier by the day. Here's a tip: you have to read the Moorewatch site to know whether there's anything resembling the truth on it.
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| Posted by: gdog | | I always crack up with posters using this... Like this brings some sembelence of high ground understanding of the issue at hand. Maybe you should try more substance of opinion and a little less cartoon rebuttal. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: scottc | | I would be interested to hear a single piece of evidence that contradicts anything that is said in bowling for columbine. For instance, what is your opinion on that deplorable little man Charlton Heston talking in Denver 2 weeks after the massacre?. I spose you will be pointing out just how "free" those 12 students were. I wish I could be so "free".
For all of the predictable anti Moore, anti bowling sentiment that is put out, I still have to hear a single contradictory fact about any points he has made. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by gdog
I always crack up with posters using this... Like this brings some sembelence of high ground understanding of the issue at hand. Maybe you should try more substance of opinion and a little less cartoon rebuttal. |
There you go, gdog, it's not just me that's interested to hear what you've got to say, scottc's interested too.
You say "Discussing this man brings the bile up in the back of my throat." I'd love to know why?
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| Posted by: gdog | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by scottc
I would be interested to hear a single piece of evidence that contradicts anything that is said in bowling for columbine. For instance, what is your opinion on that deplorable little man Charlton Heston talking in Denver 2 weeks after the massacre?. I spose you will be pointing out just how "free" those 12 students were. I wish I could be so "free".
For all of the predictable anti Moore, anti bowling sentiment that is put out, I still have to hear a single contradictory fact about any points he has made. |
Like your opinion is so important to me that Im gonna figure its my job to educate you. Get a clue, rent one if you have to.
Spend 30 minutes and read the information in the link Ive posted.
And you couldent carry Hestons jock strap.
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by gdog
Like your opinion is so important to me that Im gonna figure its my job to educate you. Get a clue, rent one if you have to.
Spend 30 minutes and read the information in the link Ive posted.
And you couldent carry Hestons jock strap. |
I looked at the site. But you posted it so where's the interesting material? Moore was suspicious of Heston having altheimers. And... so he might have made a mistake. Moore dislikes Heston and the feeling's mutual.
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| Posted by: photek | | yea, and regarding your all-knowing statements, here's a tip:
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
Maybe you should go see his movie about 9-11 when it comes out next year and learn something. |
you watch michael moore movies to 'learn' about terrorist attacks.
good one dave. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: scottc | |
| quote: |
Like your opinion is so important to me that Im gonna figure its my job to educate you. Get a clue, rent one if you have to.
Spend 30 minutes and read the information in the link Ive posted. |
Hmm, the entirely factual site moorwatch. I am very sorry, but I am obviously very stupid, and need educating. Please could you educate me as to 1, just 1, piece of FACTUAL information contained therein. That is FACT other than the rrevelation of "Check Out Them Titties!", or "Michael Moore and Rael are both leaders of mindless cults of idiot followers who accept every word they say without question". Sorry, but I do not see any rebuttal of any SINGLE point made by Michael Moore, just the fact that a large number of Americans find it so unbearable to admit the fact that they are loonatics, that they feel the need to insult the person telling them the facts. If there were any serious rebuttal, it would be taken serious, but insults merely go to prove his points.
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| And you couldent carry Hestons jock strap. |
Read my above statement concerning insults, as "And you couldent carry Hestons jock strap." does not answer the question, what do you think about this deplorable little man talking in the town where 12 children were shot dead as a result of your American attitude to guns and life, TWO WEEKS after the massacre, promoting his pathetic gun ho NRA nut bulls*-t?
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| Posted by: gdog | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by scottc
Hmm, the entirely factual site moorwatch. I am very sorry, but I am obviously very stupid, and need educating. Please could you educate me as to 1, just 1, piece of FACTUAL information contained therein. That is FACT other than the rrevelation of "Check Out Them Titties!", or "Michael Moore and Rael are both leaders of mindless cults of idiot followers who accept every word they say without question". Sorry, but I do not see any rebuttal of any SINGLE point made by Michael Moore, just the fact that a large number of Americans find it so unbearable to admit the fact that they are loonatics, that they feel the need to insult the person telling them the facts. If there were any serious rebuttal, it would be taken serious, but insults merely go to prove his points.
Read my above statement concerning insults, as "And you couldent carry Hestons jock strap." does not answer the question, what do you think about this deplorable little man talking in the town where 12 children were shot dead as a result of your American attitude to guns and life, TWO WEEKS after the massacre, promoting his pathetic gun ho NRA nut bulls*-t? |
Again scottc....just for you.....
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| Posted by: KAZAK | | I have seen Bowling for colombine and i found it a very interesting documentary, very informative.
Althought the conclussions are questionable, he points some worring trends of the american society. There are lots of facts on this film that question some of the most rancid values of the american society. This is the reason why so many people here hate him, it is normal, if someone touches the sure pot, people who can accept this reality will react against focusing on the man or institution which has brocken their mental schemes. in this case it is Michael Moore. this is a repetitive trend in history.
about his nexst film...lets see it. If it is well documented and points some credible responasabilities it will be very interesting and will open some investigation lines, if it becomes only a panflet against bush and his administration...then he will lose a lot of the respectability he has won with Bowling. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: DaveDom | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by photek
yea, and regarding your all-knowing statements, here's a tip:
you watch michael moore movies to 'learn' about terrorist attacks.
good one dave. |
And your trying to say what with this statement? Is it a question or a statement cause either way it makes crap-all sense.
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| Posted by: photek | | um....did anyone notice that moore is a member of the nra?
Q. Are you really a member of the NRA?
A. Yes. I currently hold a "Life Membership." I was a junior member and won the NRA Marksman Award when I was a teenager (back when the NRA was known as a gun safety and sportsman organization). I went hunting with the neighborhood kids but there were never any guns in our house. After Columbine, I decided that I would run against Charlton Heston for the presidency of the NRA. If elected, my plan was to try to return the NRA to a gun safety organization, instead of its current agenda of gun fanaticism. The rules said that to run for president, you had to be a member for the past five years or buy a lifetime membership for $750. And that's what I did. But after a while I realized this endeavor was going to take too much time, so I decided to focus all my attention on the movie I was making.
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and he wanted to be president?
does anyone else see a problem here? oh...wait, it would be o.k because he would have made it into a 'gun safety organization' right?
unbelievable. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: photek | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
And your trying to say what with this statement? Is it a question or a statement cause either way it makes crap-all sense. |
why would it be a question...what the hell are you talking about?
you implied someone was ignorant because they went to a michael moore website to learn something.
before that, you told someone to go watch a michael moore movie to learn something.
so...to learn something..people should watch michael moore's movies...but if they want to learn about michael moore and they utilize a website, they're stupid.
are you still high from the crank you took last night?
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| Posted by: gdog | |
Now I went and found what you said didnt exist, but no one comments........HMMMMMMMM? | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: photek | | well like i said, i thought the evidence against moore's documentary was probably just exagerated...
but i'am glad you supplied that link gdog.
some very interesting points in there, which i'am sure moore is not happy about. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: KAZAK | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by photek
um....did anyone notice that moore is a member of the nra?
Q. Are you really a member of the NRA?
A. Yes. I currently hold a "Life Membership." I was a junior member and won the NRA Marksman Award when I was a teenager (back when the NRA was known as a gun safety and sportsman organization). I went hunting with the neighborhood kids but there were never any guns in our house. After Columbine, I decided that I would run against Charlton Heston for the presidency of the NRA. If elected, my plan was to try to return the NRA to a gun safety organization, instead of its current agenda of gun fanaticism. The rules said that to run for president, you had to be a member for the past five years or buy a lifetime membership for $750. And that's what I did. But after a while I realized this endeavor was going to take too much time, so I decided to focus all my attention on the movie I was making.
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and he wanted to be president?
does anyone else see a problem here? oh...wait, it would be o.k because he would have made it into a 'gun safety organization' right?
unbelievable. |
please photek, i am sure he would had tried to do it because this would have had media repecussions and would be profitable for his idea of reducing the NRA power and the guns culture in his country...But i am sure he would ahve had a single vote, his own one. It would have been a sort of ironic action, obvously impossible.
so it would have had no real repercussions. May be, the film will have.
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| Posted by: DaveDom | | Original posts by photek
why would it be a question...what the hell are you talking about?
Tip no. 2: read more carefully and then take your time when writing replies so that you can understand more and make yourself understood.
you implied someone was ignorant because they went to a michael moore website to learn something.
re-read the post more carefully. I said, "you have to read the Moorewatch site to know whether there's anything resembling the truth on it" Implication: they haven't read the site.
before that, you told someone to go watch a michael moore movie to learn something.
Yes I did.
so...to learn something..people should watch michael moore's movies...but if they want to learn about michael moore and they utilize a website, they're stupid.
Try to concentrate.
are you still high from the crank you took last night?
I only do coke, it's the real thing. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: photek | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DaveDom
Original posts by photek
why would it be a question...what the hell are you talking about?
Tip no. 2: read more carefully and then take your time when writing replies so that you can understand more and make yourself understood.
you implied someone was ignorant because they went to a michael moore website to learn something.
re-read the post more carefully. I said, "you have to read the Moorewatch site to know whether there's anything resembling the truth on it" Implication: they haven't read the site.
before that, you told someone to go watch a michael moore movie to learn something.
Yes I did.
so...to learn something..people should watch michael moore's movies...but if they want to learn about michael moore and they utilize a website, they're stupid.
Try to concentrate.
are you still high from the crank you took last night?
I only do coke, it's the real thing. |
haha. well, i have to say that post was pretty not impressive, but i definitely will admit the joke at the end made me laugh and definitely made up for it.
oh and, i wish the smiley face with the thumbs didn't wink too....that's a bit fruity.
seriously though, why did you ask me if i was asking a question? i mean...i keep reading it over and over again and i don't see how it can be taken as a question. no question marks, no language suggestive of a question.
hmm...maybe i was the one doing the crank last night...
nah haha, i think i know what you're talking about. you're referring to the line at the end 'you watch michael moore movies....?'
at the end of that was a period, maybe you're the one who needs to concentrate.
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| Posted by: grets | | try david t. hardy site- for facts, well at least about moores editing scheme. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: gdog | |
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Originally posted by grets
try david t. hardy site- for facts, well at least about moores editing scheme. |
Posted on the previous page.......thanks anyway.
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| Posted by: scottc | |
| quote: |
| Again scottc....just for you..... |
Thankyou for educating me. There was me thinking that in order for a site to be considered proof, it should come from more than just opinion, but you have educated me as to the contrary. If I may, I would like to comment on some of the remarks.
Firstly, regarding lockheed martin.
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(1) that some are spy satellites which might be "used to direct the launching" (i.e., because they spot nukes being launched at the United States) is hardly what Moore was suggesting. Quote:
"So you don't think our kids say to themselves, 'Dad goes off to the factory every day, he builds missiles of mass destruction. What's the difference between that mass destruction and the mass destruction over at Columbine High School?'"
(2) One of that plant's major projects was the ultimate in beating swords into plowshares: taking the Titan missiles which originally had carried nuclear warheads, and converting them to launch communications satellites and space exploration units. |
Sales by customer in 2002:
U.S. Department of Defense - 57%
NASA & Other Government Agencies - 20%
International - 17%
Domestic Commercial - 6%
Notice the percentages provided within the provided web site, (The official Lockheed martin web site), as to exactly how much is targeted towards these "space exporation units", compared to bombs. Incidentally, also note that within these figures the "NASA and other government agencies" include space launch, commercial satellites, government satellites, and strategic missiles lines of business.
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| The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance. |
Do you not think that 2 weeks after a massacre as a result of LEGALLY OBTAINED FIREARMS, that this so called "ANNUAL MEETING" should have been cancelled?. as should any other such meetings for some time in the area?. This was the question I have asked twice now, but am still awaiting a reply.
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| When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme. |
The theme was in no way changed, and pointing out the fact that he did not include every word of a speech is rediculous to say the least. The film was not exclusively about Heston, and Moore pointed out the key parts of his speech. This is normal in any journalistic publication or documentary.
I have reviewed all of the points on the site, and am at a loss to find any valid arguments. The points put forward by bowling are that of a psychological review as to the reasons behind the state of affairs whereby children kill children. Saying that "the kid was the class thug" merely goes to prove the point that so many Americans simply do not value life. There were many "class thugs" at my school, but none of them took guns to class, or killed anybody. You are ignoring the fact that the mother of the child was forced to work for unemployment pittance, meaning that she could not effectively bring up her child.
With regards to gun control, you must admit that being in a situation whereby children have access to guns is absurd to say the least. The NRA are the most contemptable, evil bunch of inbreds in general that it really does go to show a great deal about the US administration when you consider the NRA VP's statement regarding Bush pre the 2000 election rigging. "If GW Bush gets to the whitehouse, we will operate from the oval office". Well, he is in power, and now the NRA have even more acceptance to go on with their pro killing rhetoric. I am thankful I do not live in the USA, but I can see that the majority of Americans simply cannot lift the veil of deciet they are being force fed from birth. It is for this reason that the USA is the least free western nation in the world. See my thread Patriotism - http://www.inreview.com/showthread....2746&forumid=13 to see just how your civil rights really are being eroded. By the way, do not see gun ownership as civil liberty. The right to free trial, and to walk free is civil liberty. Gun ownership is the ability to take away the civil liberty of life from others.
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| Posted by: gdog | | WOW scott, you have alot of passion for this subject. Very little insight, but lots of passion.
It does make me wonder how you became this interested in my second amendment rights, seeing as, if my guess is right, you have no personal experience with guns, gun ownership, or any real grasp of American way of life other than what Michael Moore tells you, or television or internet.
Your arguments are too ponderous to answer here ( you're pretty uninformed), So Im starting a new thread which will outline the NRA and the second amendment. As a life member of NRA, I naturally take alot of offense to your "inbred", "contemptable", and other assorted slanders you throw about. I dont blame you, you're just a person of passion, regurgitating information that was presented to you as fact, and you took it to heart that this was the true finished project. My opinion is you were badly misled.
Please look over my thread when it appears (hopefully later today). This should answer most of your questions. I dont expect to convert you, but if you choose to debate this in the future, you should at least have some basic facts from someone, who is part of the organization you villify, and someone who ACTUALLY lives in America, and owns guns. | | Reply To this Message
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Post-9/11 Era Forum: Michael Moore's anti-war protest against Bush at the Oscars?
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