If America were Iraq, What would it be Like? - Iraq

If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?

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Posted by: Inner City Blues

If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?
Wednesday, September 22, 2004

President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

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Posted by: Advance

quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.


No. They would mean that there must be 11 times the military forces in America.

quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :


What if, during the past year...


quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if all the...


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Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if...


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Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if, from time...


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Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if there..


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Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if no one had..


quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if veterans ..


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Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if municipal ..


quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #1 :

What if the leader..



What if this was the most pointless article ever written?
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Posted by: Inner City Blues

quote:
Advance said this in post #2 :
No. They would mean that there must be 11 times the military forces in America.

What if this was the most pointless article ever written?

That's right, don't even attempt to reply to the article.

Okay, if a nation or coalition invaded the United States, would you fight back?

That's the entire frame of this article. If the United States was invaded, people would fight back. Just as, when Iraq was invaded, people fight back.

And you fight back in the best way you can. With insurgents it's R.P.G. and I.E.D. attacks in a geurilla style formation. You have terrorists there, but there's a difference between the al-Sadr militia and Zarqawi's followers.

It's like the American Revolution, the rebels didn't attack the Red Coats like the Red Coats would attack them. The British had superiorioty in numbers and firepower. To do a simple line formation battle would have destroyed the rebel army.
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Posted by: Advance

quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #3 :

Okay, if a nation or coalition invaded the United States, would you fight back?


It depends. If GWB was a dictator who murdered my countrymen and totured thousands, no,

Otherwise, yes.
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Posted by: nikiTa

If a US president acted as a dictator murdering my countrymen and torturing thousands....

I would hope that the men of valor in this country would rise up against him...and we wouldn't have to rely on another country to invade and save us from our evil dictator.

Wimpy men...

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Posted by: Inner City Blues

quote:
Advance said this in post #4 :


It depends. If GWB was a dictator who murdered my countrymen and totured thousands, no,

Otherwise, yes.

But let's say the president just ignored the Constitution, which really has no problems, and then instituted a totalitarian government. You're taking only a few of the details to make it seem like the invasion of Iraq is okay.

If the system was only bad because of the leader and an outside government came in and just said, "You're getting a new form of government," you're telling me you'd be fine with that? What if the transition was from a capitalist society to a communist society? What if that's the government your "saviors" were going to give you?

I remember a few months back they had a survey of Iraqis asking them what form of government did they want, most people said keep the current form or model it after the United Arab Emirates. Yes, Saddam was the Big Bad Wolf, but there were many functions at the local level that the people liked.

I remember reading an article about one of the laws that gave women more rights in divorce; later, those rights were gone because the original government was being rewritten. Now Islamic laws were being instituted, thus removing some of those rights gained in Iraq (these laws came before Saddam Hussein). As a result, it was a step back for women. You have to remember Iraq was a secular nation.
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Posted by: Dekka00

If a foreign army invades the US, I will fight.

If the US becomes a totalitarian state, I will fight.

Bottom line.

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Posted by: JY_French

ICB is not posting a pointless contribution - I would say that, on the contrary, his scenario helps to get the picture about how chaotic the situation is becoming in Iraq. It is an intelligent way of doing to project the problems into one's own environment in order to help others around to figure the seriousness of these problems.
Yes the situation is terrible and is worsening day after day. People who know very well the region have an opinion about the most probable scenario to occur within the next year: the US will hand over the country's keys to an islamic regime the like of the one that prevailed in Iran 20 years ago. The deal will be as such: you rule most of the country, and leave to us the control over oil fields in southern and northern Iraq.

Don't misunderstand me: the almighty US military has all the means to crush any uprise in the country. They have the technical possibility to carpet-bomb every fireplace of insurgency. No doubt about it. But the problem is that with over 30 fighting groups having enlisted tens of thousands of fighters, and Al Qaeda having elected this land as their giant training camp, the military is not adapted to fight those people resorting to guerilla style actions over the whole territory.

I mean - a democratic country can't accept undefinitely to have several of his soldiers killed, tens of others maimed, each day. One day or another, the Iraqis will have to rule themselves without any foreign support and it is evident that the "natural" evolution will be towards an islamic regime, given the political map over there.

What is terrible is that this situation was predictable and thus have been predicted - notably by those evil French who know a little bit about the muslim world. Don't imagine you can graft in a few months a real democracy into a country and a people that have only known brutal regimes and who are under the guidance of clerics looking down at western-exported democratical values as representative of western decadence insulting Allah.

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Posted by: JY_French

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #7 :
If a foreign army invades the US, I will fight.

If the US becomes a totalitarian state, I will fight.

Bottom line.


Dekka,

To merge your two assertions into one, let's say that if foreign armies, from Europe, were to invade your country, this would mean that you would have to fight besides them against a dictator in order to liberate your country. Who knows. Americans did that for us 60 years ago, and, sometimes History repeats itself in strange loops.
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