Iran v USA who is the villian?

Iran Forum

Is the hatred directed towards Iran deserved? Is the hatred Iran feels towards the US deserved?

Who's had the worst of it during the countries dealings with each other in the last 100 years, USA or Iran? First example is the the 1953 coup. Has Iran carried out any action against the US that compares with this action the British and US took against Iran?

It's not Iran. It's Islam in general. It doesn't matter which country you come from.

Let me remind you what that US action led to in Iran. "25 years, this Shah ruled as an absolute monarch, torturing, killing and imprisoning his opponents - especially the radical and revolutionary-minded students."

Cursing islam as a warmongering religion is convenient nowadays. Gee the muslims from some countries have some reasons to be malcontented. It does not justify neither terrorism nor simply the radical understanding of this religion by some of them, but well ...

Just because he has made his opinion, which is his full right to do so...

does not give you the right to accuse him of being payed to make a opinion, I mean are you paid to make your opinions, one would think you are, the way you suspect another to be doing so.......

So whos paying you then Becker and How much? do you think its a prosperous career???

Iran v USA who is the villian?

This question is a no brainer.

That's what I thought also........but nooooooo!!!

From The Jerusalem Post:

Iran has registered at least 10,000 young volunteers for "martyrdom operations" against Israel and US forces in Iraq, according to the recruitment group, the Committee for the Commemoration of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Campaign.

Salman Rushdie, who received a death warrant in absentia by Iran's former leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini for writing The Satanic Verses, has also been targeted by the nascent brigade of terrorists calling itself the "Army of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Campaign."

The London-based Arabic daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat reported earlier this month that the "Army of Martyrs" is operated by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards (also known as the Pasdaran), and IRG's sub-agencies tasked with intelligence gathering and the planning of terrorist attacks.

The recruitment of what "Army of Martyrs" leaders say are thousands of future "martyrs," i.e., suicide attackers, racked up 10,000 registered volunteers in its first week, Mohammad Ali Samadi, a spokesman for the Committee for the Commemoration of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Campaign, told Reuters.

The calls to join the "Army of Martyrs" began at mosques after Friday prayers three weeks ago, after which registration forms were distributed by the tens of thousands at local Islamic universities to prospective male and female suicide attackers.

A senior Israeli intelligence source told The Jerusalem Post that complementing Iran's imminent nuclear capability are its efforts to infiltrate terrorists and weapons into the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

"There's no way to over-emphasize this danger," said the source. "Iran is involved intimately in almost every Hezbollah action."

The IRG also bankrolls Tanzim and Islamic Jihad cells all over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, said the official.

sowhatsthetruth -
Thanks for taking the effort. I was hoping for actions that Iran had taken against the US that has had an impact on the American people in America specifically, rather than Israel, as the reasons for animosity felt between Israel and Iran is far easier to define. And also I was hoping for historicaly important actions pre the Iraq invasion, which to many Muslims has stirred up all kinds of new Western hatred.

I'm not excusing anything Iran has done, my point is that it's easy for people to follow a cetain spoonfed line regarding hating a people, often without any need or justification or any thinking whatsoever.

There are two presumtions many make: hatred towards the West must be unjustified because we are the good guys. Western hatred towards others is okay because again we're good, their bad - no need to think.

Islam.
Have you watched the news this morning? They are murdering themselves in the name of Islam. How hard is it to understand that this religion is evil. It's evil to it's own tribal followers.
They don't even want themselves to succeed in Iraq.
You have to get past your emotional thinking to get to reality.

I didn't say Iraqis or Iranians or Saudis are evil. I said Islam is evil.

You are a fool to believe that Kerry can contribute anything. What has he done to make you think he will accomplish anything?
Nobody ever sadi this was a cake walk either. We know that his may go on for years and from the very beginning Bush and the military said this. Besides that this invaision has been planned long before Bush took office. The plan is on track but because you left wing idiots think you know everything and it's not how long the expert left wing war planning group figures it should take.
You arm chair generals really can't figure this out.

I do not think any member of the armed forces that were in Iraq think that it was a "Cake Walk."

And believe it--if we wanted to use our advanced weaponry on Iran, they would not last any longer than Iraq.

Heck--Israel could take them out with one hand tied behind their backs.

All Iran can come up with is training kids how to blow themselves up so they will be well received by Allah.

How the hell will Allah find all the pieces?

How stupid can they get?

Iran is taunting the US right now. They think we won't respond if we have to.
They offered to protect Al Zarqawi if he would leave Falluja. This means they are and will harbor Al Queada in their country. If they have allowed Al Queada to use Iran as a transfer point then they would hand over any WMD to them.

This is what happens when you let religion run your country. Although I think Islam is more of a cult than a religion. Once you are brainwashed, the only way out is martyrdom.

I know you really miss having the French on our side but, frankly I can live without it. John Kerry's global politics are with his friends in Hanoi. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

On 1/31/03, John Kerry told Ron Brownstein of the Los Angeles Times:

"If You Don’t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me"

France? I was thinking more of China and Russia.

China and Russia's only threat is stealling technology. I think the American Industry is finding out that moving plants and technology there has backfired. As we all knew it would.

Russia is too busy covering their own asses right now for ignoring the terrorists for so long and China is deep in love with the American dollar so it isn't a issue.

China need to slap N.Korea not America.
Russia need to slap Iran with sanctions (that will never happen).
There isn't anything for Kerry to fix.

Maybe you're right, who needs such allies? Maybe the whole WMD scare of it getting into the hands of terrorist was just and outlandish "exaggeration" to create public support for the Iraq war. Clever stuff, Bush and Blair. So, no threat from WMD. That's a comfort anyway.

Sure, risk human life and billions of dollars because of vengance or oil?
You're an idiot if you believe that.

As for me---I don't swallow any thing that looks like "spoon-fed"

propaganda.

I look at all that is available and reach my own conclusions.

There is no on in our universe that can invade my consciousness.

So my posts come from me...and only me.


And I can afford to put out 3 bucks per month to have a Gold Membership on IR. It helps maintain the site.

The above was pure sarcasm..in case you were in doubt....


Att: H@ts

I think you'll find what I believed before the Iraq war has now turned out to be closer to reality than the stuff you were spoon fed and believed and strangly still do despite the actual evidence that proves the contrary.

I will say the same thing about you.

Vengeance and oil certainly played their part in the war against Iraq. On the list I'd put oil higher than vengeance.

Now, please tell us why oil is more important than human life? This should be a good one.

Russia is probably very happy to watch America flounder in Iraq. After all there was much gloating in the US as the Soviet Union floundered in Afghanistan. China, well they'll be happy to continue ever upwards to superpower status.

First of all we aren't floundering and second we won't fail like Russia did. That's already been proven.

China is on the verge of an industrial revolution with stolen technology. The same thing happend in Vietnam and Thailand and you already know what a super power they are.
China's burden with population will not allow them to advance as fast as other nations, they simply have to much of a burden and their infrastructure is 2 hundred years late. They simply can't compete without help from the west.

USA1: Now, please tell us why oil is more important than human life? This should be a good one.

History tells me that oil is more important than human life and probably always will be?

First of all we [American] aren't floundering and second we won't fail like Russia did.

When I say floudering I don't mean you're going to lose the war. Russia didn't lose the war in Afghanistan they just failed to achieve what they set out to do and gave up a lost cause. America is floundering just the same. Did you see Sistani today? He drove into Najaf and did what neither the US nor Alawi could do - control the Iraqi people. That's power and that clearly shows up US impotence in Iraq. So call that what you want, floudering, failure, or whatever but America is going to have to accept what Iraq becomes whether it's what they want or not.

And all this talk of attacking Iran and creating another unstable Middle Eastern country is just so much hot air and electioneering for US consumption and everyone but you Bush fans knows it.

Of course they know it H@ts. Having little to none justifications for the war in Iraq, which has turned to a mess, they behave as if a treshold has been crossed - psychologically speaking. Now everything is possible, isn't it ? Hiding a mess by another invasion - kind of flight forward. So why not Iran next.

I think it rediculous that we should ge a lecture on Iraq from a frenchman.

I use logic - I take your words as humour and I smile at reading them. In case they were intended as a first degree statement, please just let me tell you that this statement is ridiculous. If you really use logic, you know very well on what side of the fence you and I are vs these "favorite countries" of us ....

So who are we to believe?

The media?


Or the spokemen for the US forces in Iraq?


According to the spokesmen, all the action of the insurgents is taking place in but a very small part of Iraq. Most of the country and its people are peaceful and pleased.


Do you think it is good for a US citizen running for the Presidential position to use anti-Iraq invasion statements as his platform?

I think it is pitiful!

Right or wrong...it's a terrible character trait.

Logic---I applaud your post..........http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap.gif

All right. I'll be glad to answer these questions.

looks to me like logic just got the smackdown from JY_French

Becker,

By your previous contributions, you seem to be able of intelligent and articulated discussion.
How come you are so enthusiast about this article quoted in this other thread, and so little concerned about FACTS discussed about "strange" ties between the men in office in the US and the oil industry, with all what it supposes and encompasses ?
If the accusations of bribery were proven true, and France, at least some of its corporate or government people involved within, you would find me about the most vehement in demanding them to be tried and condemned.

But right now, we have two things on the scales: allegations on one, facts implying top American executives on the other. Choose your side.

Jy---

The UN did nothing concrete to put a lid on Saddam.

Some major members had a financial motive for stalling on their duties.

Bush saw this and could not wait for things to change. He knew nothing would change.

His pre-emtive moves will have proven to be the correct course to keep our country safe and avoid destined catastrophies.

If Kerry had our country's well being at heart, he might have done the same things.

I hope........

Becker,
Although I believe to be part of the lucid people here - which I wish is not similar to being cynical - ie meaning that I know a little about how the finance rules the world; I think your assertion about major UN members having financial motive for stalling on their duties is somehow over the top.
Did Bush invade Iraq for the oil ? Oil is a parameter but it would be simplistic to reduce the war on Iraq to it.
So do you think that these major members stalled on their duties because of money ? Money and financial interests at large are part of the equation, certainly, but don't reduce these countries' stance to that. Convenient maybe to reassure yourself about the Bush admin justifications to wage a war, but short to really account for the complexity of the stakes.
As for keeping your country safe and avoid destined catastrophies ... I would say that it sounds typical from someone living in this big country that is the US and still feeling some remnants of the false certainties of absolute security that prevailed before 9/11.
Get real. Tomorrow a nuclear mushroom, or more simply a "dirty" bomb may blow out in one US town as well as in Paris or who knows where else. It's part of the risk now. And globally I really don't feel more secured that what I used to feel before this invasion of Iraq. On the contrary.

Jy

The info about the UN has been posted on another thread. It is true. It includes france, Russia and Germany also.

Bush is taking the war to the terrorists, and not waiting to only re-act.

I think that is the right way to handle this deplorable situation.

Now Israel is joining the war and will help us all.