The America I Love - Post-9/11 Era

The America I Love

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Posted by: Curley Joe

By Elie Wiesel
Published: July 4, 2004

Born in Sighet, Transylvania (Romania), Elie Wiesel became a U.S. citizen in 1963. Since then, Wiesel—a Holocaust survivor, Boston University professor and the author of more than 40 books—has become one of our nation’s most honored citizens. In 1985, President Ronald Reagan awarded him the Congressional Gold Medal, the highest honor Congress can bestow on a civilian. In 1992, President George Bush recognized Wiesel with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Wiesel, who has been an outspoken advocate of human rights around the world, won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986.

The day I received American citizenship was a turning point in my life. I had ceased to be stateless. Until then, unprotected by any government and unwanted by any society, the Jew in me was overcome by a feeling of pride mixed with gratitude.

From that day on, I felt privileged to belong to a country which, for two centuries, has stood as a living symbol of all that is charitable and decent to victims of injustice everywhere—a country in which every person is entitled to dream of happiness, peace and liberty; where those who have are taught to give back.

In America, compassion for the refugee and respect for the other still have biblical connotations.

Grandiloquent words used for public oratory? Even now, as America is in the midst of puzzling uncertainty and understandable introspection because of tragic events in Iraq, these words reflect my personal belief. For I cannot forget another day that remains alive in my memory: April 11, 1945.

That day I encountered the first American soldiers in the Buchenwald concentration camp. I remember them well. Bewildered, disbelieving, they walked around the place, hell on earth, where our destiny had been played out. They looked at us, just liberated, and did not know what to do or say. Survivors snatched from the dark throes of death, we were empty of all hope—too weak, too emaciated to hug them or even speak to them. Like lost children, the American soldiers wept and wept with rage and sadness. And we received their tears as if they were heartrending offerings from a wounded and generous humanity.

Ever since that encounter, I cannot repress my emotion before the flag and the uniform—anything that represents American heroism in battle. That is especially true on July Fourth. I reread the Declaration of Independence, a document sanctified by the passion of a nation’s thirst for justice and sovereignty, forever admiring both its moral content and majestic intonation. Opposition to oppression in all its forms, defense of all human liberties, celebration of what is right in social intercourse: All this and much more is in that text, which today has special meaning.

Granted, U.S. history has gone through severe trials, of which anti-black racism was the most scandalous and depressing. I happened to witness it in the late Fifties, as I traveled through the South. What did I feel? Shame. Yes, shame for being white. What made it worse was the realization that, at that time, racism was the law, thus making the law itself immoral and unjust.

Still, my generation was lucky to see the downfall of prejudice in many of its forms. True, it took much pain and protest for that law to be changed, but it was. Today, while fanatically stubborn racists are still around, some of them vocal, racism as such has vanished from the American scene. That is true of anti-Semitism too. Jew-haters still exist here and there, but organized anti-Semitism does not—unlike in Europe, where it has been growing with disturbing speed.

As a great power, America has always seemed concerned with other people’s welfare, especially in Europe. Twice in the 20th century, it saved the “Old World” from dictatorship and tyranny.

America understands that a nation is great not because its economy is flourishing or its army invincible but because its ideals are loftier. Hence America’s desire to help those who have lost their freedom to conquer it again. America’s credo might read as follows: For an individual, as for a nation, to be free is an admirable duty—but to help others become free is even more admirable.

Some skeptics may object: But what about Vietnam? And Cambodia? And the support some administrations gave to corrupt regimes in Africa or the Middle East? And the occupation of Iraq? Did we go wrong—and if so, where?

And what are we to make of the despicable, abominable “interrogation methods” used on Iraqi prisoners of war by a few soldiers (but even a few are too many) in Iraqi military prisons?

Well, one could say that no nation is composed of saints alone. None is sheltered from mistakes or misdeeds. All have their Cain and Abel. It takes vision and courage to undergo serious soul-searching and to favor moral conscience over political expediency. And America, in extreme situations, is endowed with both. America is always ready to learn from its mishaps. Self-criticism remains its second nature.

Not surprising, some Europeans do not share such views. In extreme left-wing political and intellectual circles, suspicion and distrust toward America is the order of the day. They deride America’s motives for its military interventions, particularly in Iraq. They say: It’s just money. As if America went to war only to please the oil-rich capitalists.

They are wrong. America went to war to liberate a population too long subjected to terror and death.

We see in newspapers and magazines and on television screens the mass graves and torture chambers imposed by Saddam Hussein and his accomplices. One cannot but feel grateful to the young Americans who leave their families, some to lose their lives, in order to bring to Iraq the first rays of hope—without which no people can imagine the happiness of welcoming freedom.

Hope is a key word in the vocabulary of men and women like myself and so many others who discovered in America the strength to overcome cynicism and despair. Remember the legendary Pandora’s box? It is filled with implacable, terrifying curses. But underneath, at the very bottom, there is hope. Now as before, now more than ever, it is waiting for us.

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Posted by: Dekka00

quote:
From that day on, I felt privileged to belong to a country which, for two centuries, has stood as a living symbol of all that is charitable and decent to victims of injustice everywhere—a country in which every person is entitled to dream of happiness, peace and liberty; where those who have are taught to give back.


this part had me in stitches
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Posted by: Curley Joe

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #2 :


this part had me in stitches


Well, good for you—it seems that's where you belong.
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Posted by: lodgebo

Joe I am not having a go at you but if any thread needed your own words it is this one, you are actually using someone else's words to describe your feelings of national pride. That seems weird to me, if it was me I would be using my own words. You of all people must be able to muster a few paragraphs about your love for your adopted country.

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Posted by: Curley Joe

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #4 :
…you are actually using someone else's words to describe your feelings of national pride. That seems weird to me…


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Posted by: Larke2000

the America i love is infected with the scourge of liberalism hiding behing the pseudonym of moderate. the America i love has slipped into the chasm of political correctness run amok. the America i love has a big bullseye painted on Her that the rest of the world enjoys taking shots at - with words, ideals, and big f'in bombs made out of our own airplanes. the America i love invaded two countries with ties to al-qaeda because my America is the s**t and can take action when other countries cower behind the u.n. behemoth of do-nothingness. the America i love is still the land of the free and the home of the brave. the America i love, the rest of the world despises her with it's right hand yet is quick to ask for help with it's left hand. the America i love is always there to help, and i love all the more for it. the America that i love, given all Her faults, is still MY America.

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Posted by: Dekka00

The America I love, the America that has stood for freedom and justice for the past two centuries... is....

oh yeah it doesn't exist

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Posted by: Curley Joe

quote:
Larke2000 said this in post #6 :
the America i love is infected with the scourge of liberalism hiding behing the pseudonym of moderate. the America i love has slipped into the chasm of political correctness run amok. the America i love has a big bullseye painted on Her that the rest of the world enjoys taking shots at - with words, ideals, and big f'in bombs made out of our own airplanes. the America i love invaded two countries with ties to al-qaeda because my America is the s**t and can take action when other countries cower behind the u.n. behemoth of do-nothingness. the America i love is still the land of the free and the home of the brave. the America i love, the rest of the world despises her with it's right hand yet is quick to ask for help with it's left hand. the America i love is always there to help, and i love all the more for it. the America that i love, given all Her faults, is still MY America.


http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/flags/50star-big.jpg
You betcha, Larke.
http://www.inreview.com/showthread....=371#post410187
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Posted by: sordidmesh

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #7 :
The America I love, the America that has stood for freedom and justice for the past two centuries... is....

oh yeah it doesn't exist


No body wants to prevent you from living in freedom. Freedom is not free. Freedom is taken advantage of. It is not corny to defend our way of life. Our country would be much worse off if steps were not taken after 9/11. I do not care how repetitive this comment sounds, but it is the truth. Why make such a dumb comment? What does it mean? What does it do for anyone? I realize the U.S. public may be watched more, but why is that a problem? There is no one listening to my phone conversations. There is no one following me. Why can't you just speak for yourself.
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Posted by: fuscia

The America I love is divided by the radicals on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. Corrupt politicians who care more about campaign contributions than making sure that the average American can afford gas, insurance, and food. In the last few years my America has lost too many jobs, and too many lives. The America I love is resilient, and I hope we come back to a sense of morals and helping each other instead of slinging mud.

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Posted by: JY_French

I can't resist to point out to dear ole Curley Joe, that Elie Wiesel is a francophile.

There is something that is always amazing to me - some people easily confuse / mix up all issues. To sum it up, after the reading of some posts above, America is "attacked" from all part, and this justifies in return their wrapping in fierce pride and patriotism. That's overreaction in the first place, and a door wide opened to all kind of drifts and manipulations.

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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
Larke2000 said this in post #6 :
the America i love is infected with the scourge of liberalism


America IS the great country it is BECAUSE of it's LIBERALISM. It's liberalism allows the very many differing opinions and people are not scared to say them. Political correctness is just another idea to argue about.

And stop with the continual - all the world despises the US. America is just about the most popular country among the majority of Britains. Young British kids wear American clothes, eat at McDonalds, drink pepsi and coke, and listen to American hip-hop and everyone watches American movies more than any other countries films including British films.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, please. The British hate the French and pretty much every other European nation.
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Posted by: nikiTa

H@ts,

You remarked:
The British hate the French and pretty much every other European nation.

And you have the audacity to comment on American snobbery?
Like the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

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Posted by: JY_French

European countries, all along the hundreds of years of their existence, have spent their time waging wars against one another. So the Brits hate the French, who return their feelings; not so far ago the Germans were our supposed hereditary enemies, and so on.
The result of all of this has been wars were people died by the millions. The European countries almost committed suicide during the two world wars, that they created.
Now that all of them have understood that it was highly time to leave behind prejudices against each other, and to build together our common house - Europe, we hear the same old rengaine from across the Atlantic. "The "europeists" are "anti-americans" and the French are leading them, "everybody" despises us but envy us, ... Hey people, step back a minute, please.

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Posted by: nikiTa

So, if nationalism was the evil force behind the world wars...and you have created the EU...

What's to stop the EU from brandishing its sword against other governments? Seems to me, its just a larger menace.

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Posted by: JY_French

I am not sure to get the meaning of your post, but, anyway, the EU is precisely intended to secure the whole Europe and prevent such events to occur again within its border. The EU is the tool to control local nationalisms.
The war in ex-Yougoslavia happened because the iron curtain's pressure disappeared with the fall of the Soviet Union. Tensions, hate were abruptly released in this area and it gave birth to war, like in western Europe decades ago. Integration in a modern and democratic Europe is the only option for security for all.
But bear in mind that Europe is not a federal state like the US. The member countries keep their particularities within. The EU is all but a political / military superpower.
But, indeed, this construction is under way and a common defense is being built. It partly explains part of the tensions between France, Germany, .. and the US.
But is the EU brandishing, or intending to brandish, its sword against other governments ? Frankly, this does not make sense to me.
The EU is far too immature to pretend having such a role.

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Posted by: nikiTa

JY French,
You said:
"But is the EU brandishing, or intending to brandish, its sword against other governments ? Frankly, this does not make sense to me.
The EU is far too immature to pretend having such a role"

Time will reveal the true intentions of the EU. If the EU's intentions were revealed, right away, in its immature state, it would be stopped dead in its tracks...right now.

You said:
"The "europeists" are "anti-americans" and the French are leading them, "everybody" despises us but envy us, ... Hey people, step back a minute, please."

First off, this statement is like when a man emotionally abuses his wife. If she tells him to stop, he says "Shut up and take it."

Look, JY....
As Americans...
We don't care if you hate us. We don't care if you love us. We don't care if you envy us. We don't care if you criticize or are angry at us.
The second you encroach on our freedoms in ANY way...it is you who must "step
back."

We will not go quietly.

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Posted by: Curley Joe

quote:
JY_French said this in post #11 :

There is something that is always amazing to me - some people easily confuse / mix up all issues. To sum it up, after the reading of some posts above, America is "attacked" from all part, and this justifies in return their wrapping in fierce pride and patriotism. That's overreaction in the first place, and a door wide opened to all kind of drifts and manipulations.


I've got your "overreaction" right here:

In 1966 upon being told that Charles De Gaulle had taken France out of NATO and that all U.S. Troops must be evacuated off of French soil, President Lyndon Johnson told Secretary of State Dean Rusk: "Ask him about the cemeteries, Dean".

So at the end of the meeting, Dean did ask De Gaulle if his order to remove all U.S. troops from French soil also included the 60,000+ soldiers buried in France from World War I and World War II.

De Gaulle never answered.
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Posted by: woolfe99

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #17 :
Look, JY....
As Americans...
We don't care if you hate us. We don't care if you love us. We don't care if you envy us. We don't care if you criticize or are angry at us.
The second you encroach on our freedoms in ANY way...it is you who must "step
back."

We will not go quietly.


Why is it that the people on this board that constantly proclaim how little they care about what the Europeans think of us are always the ones bringing up the issue? If you guys really don't care, why the obsession with this topic?

- woolfe
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Posted by: Curley Joe

quote:
woolfe99 said this in post #19 :


Why is it that the people on this board that constantly proclaim how little they care about what the Europeans think of us are always the ones bringing up the issue? If you guys really don't care, why the obsession with this topic?

- woolfe


A buzzing pest, as insignificant as its place in creation, can still manage to be an irritant—that being its role in life. Besides, it's great fun to swat at 'em—why else would one persist to patrol the premises with raised swatter?
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Posted by: JY_French

I still don't get some of the assertions above. I think that some people don't understand what the EU is. This is not a new soviet union, definitely not. May I advise you, again, to step back and consider the things for what they really are, instead of resorting to pure fantasy.
Now, it is question to "encroach" on US freedom ... Every democratic people is seeking to maintain and extend freedom both domestically and abroad. The european countries as well as the Americans. What does this "encroach" mean ?

Now, if you consider, by that, that the US should be left "free", for example, to keep massively releasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, without being under the constraint of any law or protocole, then let me tell you this.

USA is not a planet around which the rest of the world would be gravitating, more or less separated. We all belong to the same world and our actions have consequences for all of us.

When the US does not ratify the Kyoto protocol, for example, there is a problem, because it gives a wrong signal. I am not interested by political agitation, but by scientific studies, among which lot of them are issued by American scientists. These studies are drawing a worrying future if all of us don't start immediatly to carry out appropriate measures.

If the US - fortunately, I think that it mainly concerns Bush followers only - doesn't help, I will leave you appreciate your "freedom" when we all will be threarened by degraded weather conditions in a few decades.

Sometimes it is necessary to "encroach" on our freedom to render it sustainable in the long run. It should not be the EU's business to remind you this.

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Posted by: nikiTa

Woolf

You said:
"Why is it that the people on this board that constantly proclaim how little they care about what the Europeans think of us are always the ones bringing up the issue? If you guys really don't care, why the obsession with this topic"

I didnt bring up the issue. I came in midstream. It was the American haters who keep trying to bludgeon us with their dislike who assume it really bothers us.

As you can see, the title of this post is..."The America I Love"
not "The America the world hates."

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Posted by: woolfe99

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #22 :
Woolf

You said:
"Why is it that the people on this board that constantly proclaim how little they care about what the Europeans think of us are always the ones bringing up the issue? If you guys really don't care, why the obsession with this topic"

I didnt bring up the issue. I came in midstream. It was the American haters who keep trying to bludgeon us with their dislike who assume it really bothers us.

As you can see, the title of this post is..."The America I Love"
not "The America the world hates."


It really wasn't you that my response was directed at, though I understand the confusion because your post brought up the issue. Your sentiment of not caring is shared by a number of others here, but those people are constantly obsessing about French attitudes toward the US.

There are definitely a few "America haters" here (though they'll never admit it), but there are also several Americans with an equivalently irrational attitude to Europe.

- woolfe
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Posted by: nikiTa

Woolfe,

Thanks for clarifying.
I agree with you 100%

Carry on soldier.

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Posted by: nikiTa

JY,

You said:
Now, if you consider, by that, that the US should be left "free", for example, to keep massively releasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, without being under the constraint of any law or protocole, then let me tell you this."

Global warming is a fallacy, my friend. In fact where I live, we've had a draught for the past two years. Then this June, we've had rain and cool weather.

No, the only gas we should be worried about is all the hot air coming out of Chirac's mouth.

Our president recognizes that there is no viable proof of global warming and didn't buy into the rhetoric.

Recently, I remember Tony Blair stating that the worst problem facing the world is global warming...not worldwide terrorism...not mass starvation and murder and rape happening globally...but global warming.
It's absurd and I don't buy it.

Also you said:
USA is not a planet around which the rest of the world would be gravitating, more or less separated. We all belong to the same world and our actions have consequences for all of us."

We don't need a world court, we need to abide to the laws in our own countries. And if you don't like the laws, if they are oppressive, then stage a revolution.
I for one like the laws in the USA, the problem is the courts are not enforcing them, but are in many cases are rewarding the criminals.

And finally you said:
"Now, it is question to "encroach" on US freedom ... Every democratic people is seeking to maintain and extend freedom both domestically and abroad. The european countries as well as the Americans. What does this "encroach" mean ? "

The meaning in French for "encroach" is "marcher sur les plates-bandes de ...."
Ask yourself this...why would the EU need a military force? Is someone planning to invade Europe? When is the last time that happened? I'll help you out here...when the US saved France from Hitler's tyranny at Normandy. Remember that?

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Posted by: Curley Joe

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #25 :
JY,

You said:
Now, if you consider, by that, that the US should be left "free", for example, to keep massively releasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, without being under the constraint of any law or protocole, then let me tell you this."

Global warming is a fallacy, my friend. In fact where I live, we've had a draught for the past two years. Then this June, we've had rain and cool weather.

No, the only gas we should be worried about is all the hot air coming out of Chirac's mouth.

Our president recognizes that there is no viable proof of global warming and didn't buy into the rhetoric.

Recently, I remember Tony Blair stating that the worst problem facing the world is global warming...not worldwide terrorism...not mass starvation and murder and rape happening globally...but global warming.
It's absurd and I don't buy it.

Also you said:
USA is not a planet around which the rest of the world would be gravitating, more or less separated. We all belong to the same world and our actions have consequences for all of us."

We don't need a world court, we need to abide to the laws in our own countries. And if you don't like the laws, if they are oppressive, then stage a revolution.
I for one like the laws in the USA, the problem is the courts are not enforcing them, but are in many cases are rewarding the criminals.

And finally you said:
"Now, it is question to "encroach" on US freedom ... Every democratic people is seeking to maintain and extend freedom both domestically and abroad. The european countries as well as the Americans. What does this "encroach" mean ? "

The meaning in French for "encroach" is "marcher sur les plates-bandes de ...."
Ask yourself this...why would the EU need a military force? Is someone planning to invade Europe? When is the last time that happened? I'll help you out here...when the US saved France from Hitler's tyranny at Normandy. Remember that?



…And that's the truth…

http://12.181.168.142/images/logofront_bush-cheney.gif
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Posted by: h@ts

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #25 :
JY,

You said:
Now, if you consider, by that, that the US should be left "free", for example, to keep massively releasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, without being under the constraint of any law or protocole, then let me tell you this."

Global warming is a fallacy, my friend. In fact where I live, we've had a draught for the past two years. Then this June, we've had rain and cool weather.

No, the only gas we should be worried about is all the hot air coming out of Chirac's mouth.

Our president recognizes that there is no viable proof of global warming and didn't buy into the rhetoric.

Recently, I remember Tony Blair stating that the worst problem facing the world is global warming...not worldwide terrorism...not mass starvation and murder and rape happening globally...but global warming.
It's absurd and I don't buy it.


Based on what are you saying global warming is a fallacy? The fact that where you live you've "had a draught for the past two years" proves to you that global warming is absurd??? So is draught the norm where you live?

Are you suggesting there is a world wide conspiracy going on amongst scientists when they claim we are pumping dangerously high levels of carbon dioxide into the air that's causing a greenhouse effect which is causing the polar ice caps to melt and changes in temperature, draughts, storms and erratic weather?

Your president "recognises" whatever his advisors tells him to recognise as he's not big on reading up on things for himself. Energy suppliers and oil companies are some of the biggest doners of cash to the Bush campaign. He isn't about to upset that fat goose.
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Posted by: nikiTa

H@ts:

You said:
The fact that where you live you've "had a draught for the past two years" proves to you that global warming is absurd??? So is draught the norm where you live?"

Actually yes, draught is normal in my state... I live in a semi arid part of the US. The US is having floods in other parts of the country. And we had flash floods here.

Also you said:
Are you suggesting there is a world wide conspiracy going on amongst scientists when they claim we are pumping dangerously high levels of carbon dioxide into the air that's causing a greenhouse effect which is causing the polar ice caps to melt and changes in temperature, draughts, storms and erratic weather? "

I am saying European politicians are using the concept of global warming to further their agendas. And this change in the weather has been prophesied in the Bible. It has nothing to do with what scientists have to say about global warming. Not all scientists believe in the theory of global warming, there are as many who dont believe in global warming.

Lastly,
you said:
Your president "recognises" whatever his advisors tells him to recognise as he's not big on reading up on things for himself. Energy suppliers and oil companies are some of the biggest doners of cash to the Bush campaign. He isn't about to upset that fat goose."

Maybe so, but that doesn't prove global warming is true. And his advisors do not buy into the rhetoric either. They see what the EU is trying to shove down our throats.

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Posted by: Dekka00

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #28 :

I am saying European politicians are using the concept of global warming to further their agendas. And this change in the weather has been prophesied in the Bible. It has nothing to do with what scientists have to say about global warming. Not all scientists believe in the theory of global warming, there are as many who dont believe in global warming.


well this may be more appropriate in the philosophy forum but you said that the weather was prophesized in the Bible, well that means the Bible prophesized global warming. So here, the Bible and the scientists agree. I think it's pretty friggin obvious then.

Common sense and a little foresight can go a long way
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Posted by: nikiTa

Dekka,
You said:
you said that the weather was prophesized in the Bible, well that means the Bible prophesized global warming. So here, the Bible and the scientists agree. I think it's pretty friggin obvious then."

If one is a secularist, yeah, global warming is the only explanation you can give for the freaky weather. An atheist would never ascribe such obvious changes to an almighty God. Because their god is science and they have to reason away such obvious changes in the weather.
Dekka, at least you are trying to make a stab at trying to understand it. Most people believe only what they see on TV as being the truth.


You also said:
Common sense and a little foresight can go a long way."

Yeah, and they can lead you straight into hell too.

Here is a list of signs of the end...should we use science to reason for these occurences too?

As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."

--from Matthew 24

GOD IS IN CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: Dekka00

well let's take a look here:

you have a society, a trend, that is increasingly globalizing, a direct result of the Industrial Revolution. It has been growing at an unprecedented rate. No matter what your faith is, something is now happening that has never happened before. I think everyone can agree on this.

Some say it's "modernity" and "englightenment" and others think it is a "great evil" that will destroy the earth. Or maybe God will destroy the Earth because it's evil.

Anyway, we depend on the environment for our survival. We are part of the environment. If we are destroying the environment, we are destroying ourselves. This isn't about "oh protect animal rights" or any sort of tree-hugger Vegan crap, it's a simple matter of self-preservation. We have brains and we ought to use them. Just because we've been able to run around for the past few generations doing what we want with no regard to it's consequences doesn't mean the Truth isn't going to smack us in the face one day.

We can label this particular brand of self-righteous suicidal stupidity "evil" but really it makes no difference to me. They are just words. Words are meaningless to God. What I'm talking about is actions, and actions have consequences.

Is it reasonable to assume that the Creator wants nothing more than for us to live peaceful, long lives? So when He gives us instructions and sends prophets, is it reasonable to assume they are giving us instructions to live peaceful, long lives? He created this planet, there is a healthy way for us to live, and there is an unhealthy way. He tells us not to eat raw meat. You can get sick. Is He punishing you for disobeying His command? Or are you getting sick from the pathogens in the raw meat? It makes no difference. If you eat raw meat, you get sick, bottom line. He knew the pathogens would make you sick, that's why He tells us not to eat it.

Lifestyle is the same way. I do not think God appreciates us thinking His creation is ours and we can do whatever the hell we want with it.

So back to global warming. God told us a great evil would take over the Earth, and warned of a great destruction because of it, and... well... it's happening.

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Posted by: Dekka00

plus remember, God gave you common sense, God gave you a brain. They are good things, so use them.

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Posted by: nikiTa

Dekka

Hello.
Why the personal attack?

I don't want just "common sense, or "the god of my mind." I want the mind of Christ.

As a Christian I am commanded to be a good steward of the earth.

And believe you me, I have led protests, talked with senators, researched alternative energy sources. And nothing came of it. I got tired of being followed by the FBI and them making my life hell.
We cannot as people go against the system because it will try to destroy you if you do. I have learned this first hand.
There are thousands of people who are against "the fossil fuel" mentality. The majority of the people with "fossil fuel" mentality are ugly old white men who think power is money and money is power.
You can see in my signature where they are headed. So, I just live the best I can, recycle and do what I can do without bucking the system.
Because the system is corrupt.

Did you know that several automobile companies have made car engines that only run on methanol/ethanol? They get huge amounts of miles per gallon, and guess who sqwelched the technology? You guessed it....the federal govt.
If methanol/ethanol technology were enacted for cars, it would make our farmers rich. And I would rather make them rich, than the ones who already have enough money in their bank accounts to feed the entire US military.

Dekka, and H@ts: I hear where you are coming from, believe me I do.

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Posted by: Dekka00

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #32 :
plus remember, God gave you common sense, God gave you a brain. They are good things, so use them.


i'm sorry I didn't mean that as a personal attack, it's just a general statement.

ie.

the exact mechanism of the weather changes is from greenhouse gases being emitted into the atmosphere, trapping sunlight, warming the Earth, causing crazy weather changes, maybe eventually melting ice caps and causing the sea level to rise, destroying coastal cities.

But it is a consequence of our actions. It doesn't have to be supernatural and mystical in order for it to be an act of God. The Truth is plain as day for anybody that cares to look for it.
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Posted by: nikiTa

Dekka,
You are a man wise beyond your years.

One day last month we had 400 tornado sightings in my area. Some of them were really strange looking...like skinny snakey things wreaking havoc. Lots of hail.

Book of Revelation states that during the tribulation there will hailstones that weigh 100 pounds. Those be some big suckers.

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Posted by: nikiTa

Dekka,
You are a man wise beyond your years.

One day last month we had 400 tornado sightings in my area. Some of them were really strange looking...like skinny snakey things wreaking havoc. Lots of hail.

Book of Revelation states that during the tribulation there will hailstones that weigh 100 pounds. Those be some big suckers.

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Posted by: lodgebo

A lot of people here are talking about Global warming but the term global warming is old and outdated scientists now are using the term climatic change because they don't know wether it is going to get to hot or to cold in the future. Also it is not a big European conspiracy as somebody claimed only a few months ago the US Govt published a report making the same claims that European meteroligist have made so it is something that everybody is concerned.

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