Why against the war?

Post-9/11 Era Forum

This thread is dedicated for people like nothingsacred and others who are against the war in Iraq and who are against Israel.

You say that the war in Iraq is wrong. Alright then, lets assume it is. So what would you suggest? What can the world do to end terrorism? Or do you think that the best way to deal with it is to just leave things the way they are?

About Israel, you all blame Israel for killing terrorists. OK, so lets assume you are its leader - what would you do if your people are being killed? How would you react? What will you say to the familys?

I'm interested in your opinions. If you say that the war is wrong, can you suggest a better way?

End terrorism:

Stop America commiting terrorist acts or starting illigal wars of aggression and give the Palastinians a state.

I think the Americans made a big mistake after 9-11. The whole world felt huge sympathy towards the US after the attack. The sympath was so enormous that there was a world wide coalition that wanted to co-operate and stamp out terrorism. This sympathy could have been built on but no, it's war as usual - lets bomb Afghanistan then we'll bomb Iraq and next Syria and then North Korea.

What goes around comes around, so someone once said.

Wait, so you're saying that America should've left it that way? That the familys were to keep quiet and silently deal with their pain?
I'm sorry, but can you explain again how the sympathy of the world woul've helped those familys?
If something like that would've happened in UK, would you be setisfied with this sympathy?

my post was about terrorism in general ....

I think the attack of 11.9.2001 was a single terrorist act, and it didn´t justify a global hunt, wich is by the way endless. My sympathy was on the US side at first, but then all this overreacting made me angry. They only should have strenghten internal security systems in western countries to prevent terrorist acts, instead of hunting them everywhere.

Then your other point. If I was the leader of Israel, I would start removing the reasons for terrorism in Israel, instead of keeping palestinians down and then killing them when they demand their rights. Much of the problems would be solved by creating an independent Palestinian state, and by sending the main criminals (Sharon and his bandits+leaders of terrorist organizations) from BOTH SIDES in front of justice. Many people acting with means of terror would have no reason to continue. A more humane attitude towards the Palestinians would of great importance in diminishing hostility towards Israel in the region.

The most galling thing after 9/11 was that America didn't stop to ask why people had committed suicide to wreak massive destruction on the country. Fair enough, the blood was bound to boil after such an atrocious incident but a moment of reflection would have been the intelligent response not a groundless witch hunt to track down the shadows of terrorism in any state they thought it lurked. And hitting Iraq for connections with terrorism just shows how off the beaten path the US has travelled in its pursuit. If a country acts responsibly to other countries it won't find itself the victim of terrorism, but if it treats other nations as servants to its own needs, licking them into shape if they step out of US party line then resentment is bound to harden.

yes,you are right. It is also strange that many poor countries turn out to be amongst the most tropical on earth, full of valuable resources and beautiful scenery that attracts tourists from the whole world.

"If i was the leader of Israel, I would start removing the reasons for terrorism in Israel, instead of keepimg palestinians down and then killing them when they demand their rights".

I'm sorry, but can you please tell me when did Israel kill anyone for demanding rights?
You seem to be confused a little bit from the information you're getting - the palestinians do have many rights (inclouding entering Israeli territory - if any Israeli tries to get even close to a palestinian village he would be killed), and Israel never killed unless it had a very convincing reason of doing so (like killing a known terrorist).

And back to the subject - the war in Iraq - you keep saying that there are other ways but war to do things. Well lets talk about Sadam (and nowar - i know that the war was not exactly a war against terrorism but that's what they're doing now). What other way is there to eliminate a known criminal and tyran? All i want is a simple answer. If you can find a way - i will shut up and agree.

Originally posted by Grimminick:
The most galling thing after 9/11 was that America didn't stop to ask why people had committed suicide to wreak massive destruction on the country.

ANSWER:

We know why we were attacked. Osama himslef made it clear:

We are infidels and pose a threat to his view of the world that we should all be subjected to fanatic fundamentalist Islamic rule as interpeted by him and his followers.

I suppose we could have avoided 9-11 by voting for a fundamentalist Islamic regime in Washington DC. Then, with our military, we could establish a world-wide Taliban-style government.

Think of how great that would be:

1) Instead of World Cup Soccer, we could use all of those stadiums for public beheadings. Hey, we could televise them worldwide. Oops, sorry, TV's were outlawed by the Taliban.

2) Beat the crap out of any woman who dared to leave the house without permission or who didn't cover her face.

3) Outlaw the manufacture of the evil tools of Satan. Things like kites.

4) Impose a single fanatical branch of Islam over the world's entire population, whether they like it or not.

Do you really think that we should succumb and pander to fringe elements of the Muslim world???

Personally, I prefer people having the right to choose their own religion and their own way of life.

You are overcomplicating the issue here. The bottom line is that he is an over-zealous religious fanatic who manipulated his followers into attacking the US. Period.

You can spout reams and reams of diatribe about the US forces in Saudi Arabia and McDoanlad's taking over the world but the fact still remains that the people who attacked the WTC were followers of Osama bin Laden. And, unless you are a nutcase yourself, you have to admit that he is a murderous religious fanatic.

I can certainly apreciate some of the reasons for Arab resentment of the US such as our support for Isreal, but you certainly can't be implying that that the acts of 9-11 are in any way justified or a rational way to address grievances.

And, please note that President Bush and Tony Blair are supporting the regining back of Isreal and the creation of a Palesitian state. We cannot undo what we may have done in the past, but we can work for a brigher future.

first, I agree with Rage ....

second,

I have not directed any of my comments against Islam. That's why I am always very careful to preface my comments about Osama's version of Islam with terms like fanatical.

I have nothing against Muslims or Islam. I'm not an expert by any means, but my general impression is that Islam is a peaceful religion based upon tenets of peace and helping others.

I think we all realize that there are religious zealots in any religion who will warp it to suit their owns needs whether they be Muslim, Christian or Jew.

I, personally, am not religious for the simple fact that if there were a single diety, then that one diety would make himself or herself evident to all of the peoples of the world and we could all live in peace. Despite the fact that I am not religious, I beleive that it is one's own best interest as well as the interests of society that we all be moral, honest, peaceful and contribute to the overall good of society.

Religions are often manipulated by some people to urge people to hate each other and/or beleive that they are morally superior to others. In my opinion, someone should be able to worship a paperclip if they want as long as it doesn't impose upon others.

If you look through history, there are four main causes of war:

1) Dictators: Power-hungry evil people who oppress others for their own gain.

2) Politics: Differing opinions of how society should be governed.

3) Economics: Differing opinions on how resources should be allocated or the desire to take the resources of another group.

4) Religion: Imposing one group's beleifs upon another group.

Each war is it's own combination of these.

The saddest part is that well-intentioned religions which teach people to help each other are often warped and used as a rationale for killing.

The flaw of many religions is: The premise that my group's religion is the one true religion. If you don't beleive in my religion, then you will never make it to heaven and are, at best, ignorant, or at worst, evil. This approach to religion, in my opinion, demonstrates nothing but arrogance and self-superiority.

A truly humble religion would preach that one should not be judged by compliance to rituals such as Muslim or Christain prayers but that one should be judged by what one does that benefits their fellow man or, at the very least, does not cause unjst harm or suffering to others.

In America, we are taught to be tolerant of all people, regardless of their religion or race and judge people by how they treat others. Granted, not every American subscibes to this, but for the most part, we do. I think this is a good thing and demonstrates the humble side of America which is often overlooked.

As islam is a growing culture and christianity a dying one, it would not be a surprise to see the US evolve into a muslim country. But islam is peaceful, so that would not be a bad thing. Christianity was oppressive for a long time, it took 2 thousand years to get this far. Maybe we are seeing the beginnings of the rise of islam, maybe it is their turn to be THE world power.

..... eternal renewal ......