Most Arabs hate what has happened to Iraq.

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Many Arabs feel that Iraqis are weak and will be American Puppets when this is complete. They do not like Americans solely because “We” can’t resolve their issues with Palestine and Israel. Why is this Ok for the U.S. to resolve and not Ok in Iraq? Typical Arab rational! Talk but don’t act!

I find most Arabs to be great talkers, always willing to push their skewed views of freedom but never taking action to follow through. This is typical of what we are now seeing Jordan and Syria. They just can’t stand that they can’t control the world and create one great Muslim society and force their views on all free people.
Many of the comments I hear of late are. “They will steal our oil”. Impossible. And besides, it’s not their oil. It is Iraqi oil and when this all said and done, they will prosper and sell their oil to whomever they want to. America will not impose our views on this.
If you want to sell it to us, fine but if you don’t fine too. We will make some other country rich by buying their oil and frankly I would rather make Venezuela and Brazil rich. You see, America has no need for this oil. We have been accustomed to low fuel prices, unlike Europe who pays 4X the price for Gasoline than we do. We have not begun to scratch the surface of conservation in this country because gas is so plentiful. If need be, we can decrease our dependencies on oil in a heartbeat.

Not purchasing Iraqi oil will not affect the U.S.
It would however, affect Europe, should France, Russia and Germany get their just rewards for their deeds in supporting Saddam.
What if America boycotted Arab oil? Now that would have an impact.

We have given Iraq a second chance at life. It is up to them to succeed on their own. It would be most beneficial if other Arab countries would step up and help but, they are only great talkers and in their talk, they will support hatred and oppression by sending fighters from Syria, Jordan, Arabia, Iran, Palestine against the feelings of the Iraqi people, again pushing their extremist BS on a country on it’s knees trying to stand up.
Frankly, I suggest sending all the terrorists to Iraq now. Unite and fight I say. This way, we will have you all in one place. Hey, we’re already there anyway and it’s a shame to send all those weapons home unused. Lets dance…..

I think you will find that 'most' of the terrorists arnt Iraqi and it would do them no good to go to Iraq. I am afraid that 'most' terrorists are living in the country they are going to terrorise and produce their weapons in those countries also. The dancing is going to be going on a lot closer to home methinks.

Do you disagree that "most" terroists are Arabs?

Come and get it! I love to dance...

Approximately 248 Million Arabs in 17 countries.

For what it’s worth.

There are approximately 250 million Arabs in 17 countries in the Middle East alone.
I am willing to bet my life that there are at least 248 thousand terrorists from the Middle East. They add up quick when Syria allows terrorists to fight the coalition in Iraq. These aren’t considered military, they are considered terrorists.
So at .01%, you owe me $248.000. I’ll take it in USD.

When people say they hate the U.S. government and not American citizens. You cannot and should not separate the two. We are the government, we elected them or allowed them to be elected, therefore we, the American people, are hated.

About me.
No I am not a General.
I am 50.
I have a family and a great job.
My Family history is full of American Military Veterans
I am an Air Force Veteran
I am a Disabled Veteran of Vietnam
My son is in the Army and I am proud of him for willing to fight and give his life for us and everyone else in the world.
We are not selfish people. We give freely to many globally.

You say I sound arrogant? Explain to me how any Arab country can stand by and allow a regime to do what Saddam has done to the people of his country. How can someone turn his or her back on this? The only way that can happen is if they are just as guilty and do not want the world to recognize it. The people of the world will eventually find this out. Arab media cannot cover this up forever. Eventually these governments will be changed by freedom loving people. Syria, and Jordan are being spoon fed by extremist media coverage from Arab TV. One day the world will realize how corrupt and greedy the Arab countries really are. I suspect there are many more atrocities to be discovered in surrounding countries.
The world is watching how the Arab countries react.

Ok then, I have several questions to ask about those figures.

1. Where did you obtain these figures?
2. How did the people you obtained these figures from obtain these figures themselves?
3. What does someone have to do to qualify as being a terrorist in your opinion?
4. What did someone have to do to qualify as being a terrorist for the people who calculated these figures?

By the way, isn't it interesting how you can completely misjudge age when talking to someone online? I mean, when I read your post, I don't see a 50 year old. This is undoubtedly just the result of a preconcieved idea that I've formed in my head without realising it, of how I view the "average" 50 year old. I just find it interesting.

Here is the link to a census.
http://www.uabonline.org/UABWeb/arab_countries.htm

I'll have to find the article I read about "Schools of Jihad". this article speaks of millions of young Arabs being "trained" to hate Americans. These schools have existed for 20 years.

I understand the true meaning of Jihad so, I don't need to be reminded. I also know that there are others who actulaty teach the true Muslim religion as it pertains to Ala.

So when I ask for all terrorists to enter Iraq, this will deminish the gene pool of extremist and fundamentaists.

Nobody will answeer why, if other countries hated Saddam, they couldn't do anything but talk about it for 30 years and when someone finally has the balls to stop him, they are now some how the enemy.

As I've said in previous posts, I would rather leave the Middle East to themselves. Let them trade between themselves, let them support themselves, let them support each others governments in a true Arab culture. Let them solve theri own issues.
In other words, this would mean I would have to turn my back on human suffering.

I guess I can't really do that. It's probably because I am an American.

Yeah, I was about to ask the same thing.

This is one story. There are many. But I suppose that nobody believes this either, unless it is written by a cleric and even then if it doesn't jive with your views it is al a lie anyway.

http://sathyavaadi.tripod.com/truth...pers/020501.htm

Remember, don't believe everything you read or see in the media.
Make your own judgments based on faith and heart.

This is long but worth reading. Use your own judgment.

Saudi education system
majors in 'jihad'
Despite PR blitz denying it, textbooks teach hatred of Christians, Jews


Posted: December 24, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com
Although Saudi Arabia mounted an impressive public-relations blitz recently to quell American angst after reports that the U.S. "ally" has been supporting terrorism worldwide, new revelations about Saudi school textbooks aren't helping the desert kingdom's much-cultivated image of being moderate and anti-terror.
The Middle East Media Research Institute, a non-profit research organization whose Arabic-to-English translations of Middle Eastern documents are widely cited by the press, has released a preliminary report on Saudi schoolbooks, based on an upcoming in-depth review to be published in 2003. In it, the Saudi education system and its role in the radicalization of Saudi youth and Muslim students in Saudi-supported schools worldwide is readily apparent.
For over 20 years, says the analysis authored by MEMRI Executive Director Steven Stalinsky, the Saudi kingdom has been engaged in an extensive effort "to spread Islam to every corner of the earth." That outreach has involved "supporting or creating schools with a curriculum primarily based upon the teachings of Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab, the 18th century founder of the Islamist Wahhabiyya movement." The Wahhabi movement adheres inflexibly to Islamic Shari'a law, and is the radical brand of Islam followed and preached by Saudi native and terror kingpin Osama bin Laden.
According to "Education in Saudi Arabia," a 1995 book published by the Saudi Cultural Mission to the U.S., the roots of the contemporary Saudi education policy date back to the 18th century when Al-Wahhab called for the return of Muslims to the fundamentals of Islam as preached by the Prophet Muhammad. The book cites 236 principles that explain how students should promote loyalty to Islam by denouncing any system or theory that conflicts with Islamic law. The students are also taught to understand Islam in a "correct manner," how to plant and spread Islam throughout the world, and how "to fight spiritually and physically for the sake of Allah."
Jihad 101
The core of the Saudi education system is the mandate to spread Islam throughout the world. According to a document published by the kingdom's Higher Committee for Educational Policy: "The purpose of education is to understand Islam in a proper and complete manner, to implement and spread the Muslim faith, to provide students with Islamic values, and teachings."
Part and parcel of spreading Islam is "the spirit of Islamic struggle," as exemplified by the following principle noted in "Education in Saudi Arabia": "Striving and fighting for the sake of Allah is a prescribed duty, a followed tradition and an existing necessity. This spirit of striving will remain in force until the Day of Judgment."
"Awakening the spirit of Islamic struggle to resist our enemies, restore our rights and glories, and perform our duties towards the Islamic message," the Saudi book adds, is a general theme students are expected to learn.
From an early age, says MEMRI, schoolchildren are taught about jihad "for the Sake of Allah (Al-Jihad fi sabil Allah)":
In a textbook for 8th-grade students, a Hadith is introduced about a companion of the Prophet Muhammad who asked the Prophet: "What labor is most favored by Allah? He [the Prophet] answered: Prayers on time; he then asked: What next? The Prophet answered: Love thy parents. He then asked: What else?: The Prophet answered: Jihad for the sake of Allah." The textbook interprets the conversation between the Prophet and his companion as follows: The most important activity is Jihad for the sake of Allah and the convocation of Allah's religion on this earth.
Jews and Christians - apes and pigs
An 8th-grade textbook also explains "why Jews and Christians were cursed by Allah and turned into apes and pigs. Quoting Surat Al-Maida, Verse 60, the lesson explains that Jews and Christians have sinned by accepting polytheism and therefore incurred Allah's wrath. To punish them, Allah has turned them into apes and pigs."
A 9th-grade schoolbook tells a story about Abu Hurayra, one of the Prophet's companions who quoted the Prophet as saying: "The hour [the Day of Judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. A Jew will [then] hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim: 'O Muslim, O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!' Except for the gharqad tree, for it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Other statements in the same 9th-grade textbook include:
1. It is Allah's wisdom that the struggle between Muslims and Jews shall continue until the Day of Judgment.
2. The Hadith brings forth the glad tidings about the ultimate victory, with Allah's help, of Muslims over Jews.
3. The Jews and the Christians are the enemies of the believers. They will not be favorably disposed toward Muslims and it is necessary to be cautious [in dealing with them].
The 9th-grade textbook then asks these questions for class discussion:
1. Who will be victorious in the Day of Judgment?
2. With what types of weapons should Muslims arm themselves against the Jews?
3. Name four factors leading to the victory of Muslims over their enemies.
Exporting the Saudi system worldwide
The spread of Islam throughout the world, long a Saudi aim, is emphasized in the official Saudi document of the Higher Committee for Educational Policy. Students are taught "to plant and spread the Islamic creed" and that "preaching of Islam throughout the world is the duty of the state and its citizens."
This Saudi ambition to Islamize the entire world has manifested on many fronts:
· "On March 1, 2002, 'Ayn-Al-Yaqeen, a weekly news magazine published online by the Saudi royal family, detailed the efforts of the Saudi royal family to spread Islam throughout the world," said MEMRI.
"The cost of King Fahd's efforts in this field," states the Saudi news magazine, "has been astronomical, amounting to many billions of Saudi riyals. In terms of Islamic institutions, the result is some 210 Islamic centers wholly or partly financed by Saudi Arabia, more than 1,500 mosques and 202 colleges and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, North and South America, Australia, and Asia."
· Saudis have established Islamic schools, says Ayn-Al-Yaqeen, in the United States, Canada, Great Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Switzerland, Australia, Belgium, New Zealand, Spain, Austria, Scotland, Italy, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Palestinian Territories, Jordan, Lebanon, Yemen, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Burundi, Fiji, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Algeria, Nigeria, Chad, Kenya, Cameroon, Senegal, Uganda, Mali, Somalia, Sudan, Brazil, Eritrea, and Djibouti, among others.
Recently, many members of the Saudi royal family, government spokesmen and religious authorities have spoken publicly about the Saudi education system. For instance, Sheikh Majed 'Abd Al-Rahman Al-Firian recently stated in the Suleiman Bin Muqiran mosque in Riyadh: "Muslims must ... educate their children to Jihad. This is the greatest benefit of the situation: educating the children to Jihad and to hatred of the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels; educating the children to Jihad and to revival of the embers of Jihad in their souls. This is what is needed now ..."
In response to U.S. criticism, high-level Saudi officials have defended their education system, insisting it does not teach hatred and Jihad. Indeed, that has been part of the message of the multi-million dollar Saudi PR campaign in the U.S. to convince Americans that Saudi Arabia is against terrorism. Saudi Interior Minister Prince Naif Ibn Abd Al-Aziz gave an interview recently to the Saudi-owned London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, saying: "We do believe in the soundness of our educational curriculum, but we never oppose development of educational methods in a manner that does not run counter to the country's deep-rooted principles." The prince added: "We strongly believe in the correctness of our education system and its objectives. We don't change our systems on the demands of others ... "
And on Oct. 26, Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan Ibn Abd Al-'Aziz said: "We will never change our education policy, and there is no demand that we change it. Our country has a policy ... and above all religious curricula that must never be harmed. Any demand by another country in the world that Saudi Arabia change its curricula is unacceptable interference in [Saudi] sovereignty. There is no such demand, and we ask that our free press take note that there are people who belong to Israel [and act] against the [Saudi] kingdom's policy and do the impossible in order to drive a wedge between Saudi Arabia and the U.S."
Finally, at a press conference held between American and Saudi officials in late October, Saudi Deputy Education Minister Dr. Khaled Al-'Awad claimed American critics of the Saudi education system had seen the error of their ways and had even offered to apologize.
"Meetings were held between top Saudi Education Ministry officials and American media personnel and officials to clarify that the Saudi curriculum is fine and does not encourage or boost terrorism and hatred of a member of another religion or faith," said Al-'Awad. "This follows attacks on the Saudi curriculum, according to which it was claimed that the curricula nourished the [ideas] of terrorism in the souls of the pupils following the events of September 11, in which 15 of the 19 perpetrators of the events that shocked New York and Washington and killed hundreds of people were Saudis."
"These meetings yielded positive results," added Al-'Awad, "and since most of those present realized that the Saudi curricula were fine, they retracted their baseless accusations. In light of the facts and information presented to them during this meeting, some of the media personnel realized that the Saudi learning process is fine, and they promised to stop the attacks and to apologize for the false accusations. Similarly, some of the officials promised to retract their previous positions."

I do understand the oil economy in the U.S. I also know that the oil reserves world wide are on the other side of the bell curve and declining. Although your year of 2025 is a little short and doesn't take into effect conservation efforts that would obviously arise prior.

It would be extremely easy for the U.S. to cut back 20% or more. This could happen immediately by raising existing prices to to say, $5.00 per gallon instead of $1.50 and investing in other means of transportation. Americans consume fuel because they can. If we are asked to adjust our consumption, we will.

For me price and conservation is not an issue if it would help us to stop buying oil from the middle east.

Your article is flawed in many ways.

Anyway, let me point out some of your -the author- mistakes in this article.

You begin by saying that the Wahhabiyya is a movement, that's not true. Lots of people call it Mathhab, although it is not. I've said this before, we only have four, and this is not one of them. Muhammad Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab renewed the exisiting knowledge, and if you reseach a bit more, you'll find that all the things he said were there in the other books. He came at a time when we were fighting colonization, we were worshopping trees, and graves, and he started telling people that God is not a tree or a grave. He was then backed up by religion scientists from other muslim countries, and they put most of the principles you see now. It is because of him Saudi Arabia was united instead of being independent regions.

Second, the article starts accusing us of trying to spread Islam, isn't the church trying to spread christianity?. We go to poor countries and give them food and midicine and tell them it's all from God, and they should worship him. Isn't this what the church do as well? It even gets better, didn't you know that in Iraq, this same thing will be done once it gets approved, spreading christianity among Iraqis?, i don't see you bashing the church for doing that, or is Christianity the only religion allowed to spread?

Third, you claim you know what Jihad truly means, yet, you contradict yourself and say their prophet said it's a good thing to do, well, if you did know what it truly means, you wouldn't be saying what you said in the article.

I am a graduate of the Saudi system, and i'm not killing anyone now am i?

Why don't you pay me a visit, and i'll show you what Saudi Arabia is all about, I swear you'll change most of your perceptions.

-Rage

You have just put me in a generalized catagory too.
You say, "You". I didn't write the article. I mearly posted it.

As for my visit to Saudi? I think not. Wouldn't want to risk my life at this point. there are a few things I have left to do yet.

I have no problem with Saudis or their culture. I do have a beef about supporting terrorism. Osama and many others are known to come from Saudi and are supported from there.

The inaction on the part of Saudi Arabia in regards to Iraq. this sounds very selfish to me.

Also the Arab media is continually throwing gasoline on the fire by showing pretty much negative view to the actual good that is being done and tries to portray this war and invasions to steal oil.
By doing this, it tells ME that Saddam has friends who will continue to fight for him in the public relations war.
I do watch their meda and ours and I wonder how they can want to keep on killing.

No matter where or how long, we will always fight for freedom for all people, including Arabs.

i said "you -author-", i didn't mean you as in "USA1".

Risk ur life? dude this ain't no jungle, this a country with law and regulations like all other countries. I got Americans cousins (yes, real American), i have many American colleagues, and non of 'em say this stuff. One guy i used to know had ur same opinion (in the military as well), and when he came, the first thing he said "i never knew the mid east had this much westerns".

Selfish?, so if my government does not agree with urs we are selfish? Odd logic i must say..

-Rage