the million dollar question...

Post-9/11 Era Forum

i've encountered many of these over the past couple of months...now..all of a sudden i never hear it..wonder why

'wow, do you really think that the people of iraq will celebrate? that they will wave u.s flags or something?'

'yes, i do,' i would answer.

in fact, not only have they waved an american flag, they've waved many of them, along with t-shirts that read 'u.s.a,' along with printed pictures of president bush and the american flag, along with iraqis saying [and repeating] 'thank you mr. bush' and 'yes yes america. yes yes bush' and 'we are feeling free' and 'i like america. i like the freedom.' i could go on and on...

there's really no more arguing to be done. the iraqi people have spoken. if anyone denies that, so far, this war has been benificial and that america has done everything to minimize civilian casualties [and that they did not attack the media on purpose or rape and kill civilians like the regime said], well, i feel sorry for you, because your efforts will focus only on denying the truth to save face, and that will waste a lot of this nation's time and money, which could potentially be used to instigate a supporting structure for iraq. and i surely cannot thank you for that.

So true photek, so true. I almost wish I could be there to celebrate with them (note, I said ALMOST ). I get chill bumps watching them, handing soldiers flowers, cheering, encouraging, watching them enjoy freedoms they never before had. Can you imagine that feeling they are feeling? Awesome, totally awesome.


There are those that will always hate America or the US government and will hold onto any thread that allows them to continue those feelings. The question is why. Oh, there will be a lot of excuses but not one single valid one, I guarantee.

But please remember when the stars and stripes were wrapped across the statue of Saddam it was asked for it to be changed to the Iraqi flag.

If that's the best you can do Dr.

What was wrong with a soldier celebrating with the crowds? They loved it. It was our leaders that took it down after the point was made so Iraqis wouldn't ERRONEOUSLY think that we were trying to colonize.

it was 'asked to be changed?'

what are you talking about?

the u.s flag was taken down less than 2 minutes and changed to the iraqi flag because the troops have a bit more common sense than to praise their own country like that in the middle of iraq, knowing full well that not only could this be seen as arrogant among the people of the middle east but also anger and perhaps cause problems with those iraqis who are still pro-saddam and still residing in the areas where coalition troops have secured .

recently, coverage on c.n.n showed an american soldier who decided to take out an american flag and wave it around after entering a village. his squad leader immediately told him to take the flag down, he was reprimanded for the action, and that same squad leader was interviewd later, saying, 'i have made it very clear that if any of our troops display this kind of behavior they will be sent home without any questions asked.'

you really think the u.s was going to keep that flag there? you think that our military isn't worried about soldiers doing this kind of crap and jeopardizing the outcomes of this war????

the american flag, followed by the iraqi flag, was put to symbolize the unity of america and iraq, both flags covering saddam's face to make a strong statement that america is not against the middle east, and have come together with the most oppressed country in that region to overcome a common enemy.

I was simply asking people to remember a certain point, that this liberation was meant to be for the Iraqi people, yeah?
This whole thing was about freeing them from their oppressor or something like that, or WMD or Al-quaeda, or Bin-Laden, there's been so many reasons it has become confusing.

I'd say the million dollar question is : "Where are the WMD's?"

true, true, but then again, will we ever know how many of the 1500 (est) civilians they killed? the point is, those are very low numbers considering the numbers all the experts (hee hee) gave before the 1st bomb dropped. 1 is too many, but if saddam had left when asked, it would be 0. and how many more than those totals would die by his hands if we did nothing at all? it's one of those catch 22 deals.

W here are the WMD, you will know soon.
The Iraqis did not want to kill cvilians from our country, Suddam did ,if he would of had a chance to do so, and any true American knows freedom does not come without sacafice. I hurt and feel for those Iragis that lost familey or friends but I think they know in the long term this is best for them and there country.

However liberated we are told the iraqis feel, i dont think the american t-shirt market will really take off over there. Infact I have a sneaky suspician that Iraqis wont be proudly parading their new found fashions for very long. I wonder what the 'general' islamic view on wearing 'support usa' t-shirts is considering most non americans would be quite embarrassed to be seen in public wearing them.

photek very well put and very well thought out, wish some of these other people would put alittle thought in themselfs and there values and what they really stand for. This is good for iraq and her people and the few mindless idiots out there that dont have a clue and are only talking crap because they are either blind, or have nothing better to do but ***** and complain while they are enjoying the fruits of freedom themselfs. Let us not forget how many of our own men died to insure this freedom we now enjoy and in time so will iraq. WE are not the only ones who deserve freedom but all in the world deserve it and shouldnt have to worry about being tortured,beaten or murdered because of there beleife. Whats wrong with that? you all enjoy freedom why not someone else that cant acheive it on there own and need help, we wouldnt be any better than saddam if we kept allowing this to happen, and what happened 12 yrs ago is in the past we are worried about now not 12 yrs ago like somepeople like to throw up, people and countries change and saddam was evil and needed to be dealt with, wich he was, GOOD JOB US/UK AND ALL OF HER ALLIES.

It's so **** easy to dismiss the past isn't mt. It doesn't quite fit into your neat, rosy world so let's just say that that was then and this is now. Which is why you completely miss the obscenity of this war.

as nowar has said in this forum, 'the past should be the present.' i agree.

12 years ago we deserted the people in that nation, and saddam came back with his armies and slaughtered families who had participated in a rebellion that was meant to create liberty. anyone who was related to these rebels also had their lives taken away.

but you don't remember this. all you seem to remember is the sanctions. it was the sanctions that destroyed freedom in iraq, it was sanctions that caused hussein to do this and that. no, it wasn't.

now, we have gone in and taken him out of power, so that people can be human: so that they can speak what they want and when they choose, rejoice and weep when they choose, so that they can act and interact like human beings without threat of death.

you're the one who ignores the past, because you always talk about '12 years ago this' and '12 years ago that,' like iraq suddenly popped into existence 12 years ago.

So, the US failed to understand the needs of Iraqis 12 years ago, but we need to dismiss that. Sanctions imposed failed to understand the needs of Iraqis for the next 12 years, but we need to dismiss that also.

Now, in the present, the US invades again in an attempt to impose the correct sort of liberation, one that is acceptable to US ideals and is allowed to do so because some people conveniently dismissed the previous failures.

And when this aggressive interference fails no doubt the past will again be forgotten and correct type of democracy and liberation installed once again and again and again until all cultures have got the message. US violence and aggression is the best way to get things done. Follow the example of the US to a brighter and better world. Dont worry, your covered by the new US freedom policy.

US freedom, 9 out 10 shepherds said their sheep prefered it.

liveing in the past accomplishes nothing. WE can point figngers of past mistakes in our history and your life also. People make mistakes and learn from them and far as blameing everything on sanctions and leftover ordance it is the countrys job to keep there people safe and saddam spent iraqs money on himself, several palaces,weapons and armys. Wonder how many thousands people all that money could have fed....whos blind now lol keep trying Grimmminck..................lol

But if countries imposing the sanctions know full well that they are crippling ordinary people rather than the regime isn't it their responsibility to stop them and face facts that it simply wasn't serving the purpose it was intended to. unless of course killing a million Iraqi people was the intention. UN humanitarian workers spoke out strongly against the continuation of sanctions and their pleas to have them lifted despite overwhelmnig evidence of the genocide they were causing went unheeded, chiefly by US.