These videos are not from anti-Israeli websites or Arab websites, they are from www.freespeech.org
In A Prison Called Palestine - FSTV's Mobile-Eyes On Palestine is anchored by this 90 minute travel diary by reporters Shannon Service and Andy Dieringer. They traveled to Palestine as part of a Global Exchange "Reality Tour" in June 2002. They spoke with Palestinian children, workers, professors, students, families. Stood with hundreds of Palestinians waiting for hours to pass Israeli checkpoints. They met with Israeli settlers and peace activists. They felt the ground tremble in Gaza as American-built F-16s and Apache helicopters fired rockets and dropped bombs on Palestinians in one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world.
Counting the Costs: Jenin, Journalism & the Desire to Please - Robert Fisk is a reporter for The Independent of London and dean of the Middle East correspondents. He lives in Beruit and has reported on the Middle East for over 25 years. In this talk, delivered in Berkeley CA on June 20, 2002, he addresses the issues of the Israeli massacre of Palestinian civilians at the Jenin refugee camp, the suicide bombing of Israeli civilians, and the way the western media cover the battle over Palestine.
Thanks for the videos.
First of all, I wish they were better quality because I barely could understand a word they said. What I didn't quite get is why the Israeli's speech was translated and the Palestinian's was not. Their accent made it hard to understand them.
I haven't yet watched all of it, only part 1.
Now, let's analyze the movie: There has been no documental filming of any Israeli so-called atrocities that the Palestinians speak about during the whole movie. The movie was filmed after the military operation in Jenin, therefore some of it is not rellevant for today. The Palestinians who complained about the inability to move from one city to another or to get to the Bir Zeit university - there's a simple reason why - the closure on all cities after the Jenin operation. In order to prevent from militants to retaliate and due to the high level of alert, they had to establish more checkpoints and limit the movement of Palestinians. The Palestinians understood it quite perfectly, I wonder why they didn't explain that to the journalists... The Bir-Zeit university, unlike what that professor said, had many militants studying in it.
"The political picture at Bir Zeit also captures a broader evolution in the Palestinian balance of power. Like their parents, today's young Palestinians are increasingly inclined to support radical groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad over Yasser Arafat's mainstream Fatah Party, which has steadily lost ground on campuses across the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
At a debate just before the vote, Barghouti, the Islamist bloc candidate, presented his statistics.
"Hamas activists in this university killed 135 Zionists," he said, challenging the Fatah candidate, according to an Associated Press report at the time. "How many did Fatah activists from Bir Zeit kill?"
Do you know the saying: "You only see what you wanna see"?
Well, that's exactly what the reporters there were doing. They were Pro-Palestinian so they went to Palestinian territories to find people who will make them feel better, people who will tell them: "You are right and you're taking the right side".
Did they interview Israeli civilians or soldiers? No. Did they interview left-winged Palestinians? No.
Perhaps they would have understood more about the conflict, if they did.
They didn't look for reasons or explanations, they looked for opinions and stories. Did they try to find out why the houses were demolished? Why the spontaneous checkposts have been put here and there?
As for Robert Fisk, too bad he has been brainwashed for 26 years. He literally lived among the Israel-hating Arabs for such long, of course he'd go against Israel. The operation in Jenin was not a failure, it was a success. No terrorist comes out from Jenin today, if only rarely. Before the operation, Jenin was called "the city of terrorists". It was one big factory of explosives. Suicide bombers came from that city on a daily basis. IDF solved that problem.
As for the rest of what he said (I only listened to part of what he said), I don't believe any word. Where's the proof? Do you expect me to believe that IDF shot a woman in the legs and then at a heart from a short distance? and then IDF shot the other woman again?
This video is basicly to show the destruction of the battle, they did show several dead bodies, and they interviewed the Palestinians.
They werent looking for answers, im sure they knew why the houses were demolished, but thats not their problem, their problem was that many war-crimes were committed and they went to document what was left of Jenin.
Robert Fisk is a great man, in that video he makes so many incredible points, and he tells us how the Israelis themselvs said that they killed hundreds and have taken the bodies and buried them.
I dont see how hes brainwashed, hes seem these attrocities in Lebanon for years, and if he was brainwashed then why is he against suicide bombers?
I dont see why he would be lying to his guests.
He also makes it clear of how journalists are made to report.
Robert Fisk showed us how the U.S media favors Israel.
Im sorry AJ, but your being pretty ignorant right now, i know that Israel is your country and i know that you support it, however, you cant be denying everything that makes it look bad, im not saying you do, but denying what Mr. Fisk has said is not a very good thing.
You expect me to believe that what he said was true? Perhaps parts of it.
Why would Israel proudly shout to the whole world: "We killed hundreds of Palestinians!"??? Do they expect any saluting? No! And then why would they bury their bodies? It's quite contradicting...
Do you really believe that woman's story? You know how many lies I've heard and read. False and absurd statements of murdering, abusing, raping, etc.
I never said that if he lived 26 years in Lebanon, he would support suicide bombings? Do you think that whoever lives in Lebanon for so long supports suicide bombings. He just became very pro-Palestinian, that's all.
In his speech he went straight against Israeli acts. Did he say anything about Israel's reasons of this operation in Jenin? Did he describe the overall population of Jenin, the explosives factories, the massive terrorist infrastructure that was growing with each day in the city?
quote:
I dont see why he would be lying to his guests.
He's not lying, or at least he doesn't know that he's lying... or perhaps, he pretends he doesn't know that he's lying.
quote:
Robert Fisk showed us how the U.S media favors Israel.
The US media is similar to any other media - trying to be as neutral as possible, to get the most interesting stories and to reveal only the truth. I bet it has more journalists in Israel than in the Palestinian territories, mostly due to safety. Especially when Palestinians burn US flags and try to kidnap US journalists. Perhaps it has something to do with telling the truth, too. The media has learned that many of its stories appeared to be false.
One of the best examples to this is the world's famous video footage of a father and a boy hiding from IDF fire behind a wall and a moment later, the boy gets a bullet and dies in his dad's arms. It was shown to the whole world and Israel was blamed for the boy's death. But when the analysts finally found the truth and managed to prove it, it was already too late, the media and the world weren't interested in that story again.
You expect me to believe that what he said was true? Perhaps parts of it.
Why would Israel proudly shout to the whole world: "We killed hundreds of Palestinians!"??? Do they expect any saluting? No! And then why would they bury their bodies? It's quite contradicting...
Do you really believe that woman's story? You know how many lies I've heard and read. False and absurd statements of murdering, abusing, raping, etc.
I never said that if he lived 26 years in Lebanon, he would support suicide bombings? Do you think that whoever lives in Lebanon for so long supports suicide bombings. He just became very pro-Palestinian, that's all.
You believe the story in the introduction about the militants who kill an Israeli woman and her two children, but you question the story about the Palestinian woman who was killed in Jenin, which in the time was in battle.
We'll you said that he was brainwashed, and when someone is brainwashed towards the Palestinians, he will support them and everything they do, like suicide bombings and attacks on the Israelis, this man has full control of his life, hes an journalist for the Indepent in the UK.
In his speech he went straight against Israeli acts. Did he say anything about Israel's reasons of this operation in Jenin? Did he describe the overall population of Jenin, the explosives factories, the massive terrorist infrastructure that was growing with each day in the city?
In the start of his speech, the very first thing he talks about was about the Israeli woman and her two children being killed by Palestinian gunmen.
He did say in his speech that Jenin was the center of the suicide bombings and he interviewed the families of dead suicide bombers.
He called it an unsuccessful operation because there are still suicide bombers coming from Jenin.
He's not lying, or at least he doesn't know that he's lying... or perhaps, he pretends he doesn't know that he's lying.
Hey, c'mon, you never met the man, and you dont know everything, so you cant be calling him a liar.
The US media is similar to any other media - trying to be as neutral as possible, to get the most interesting stories and to reveal only the truth. I bet it has more journalists in Israel than in the Palestinian territories, mostly due to safety. Especially when Palestinians burn US flags and try to kidnap US journalists. Perhaps it has something to do with telling the truth, too. The media has learned that many of its stories appeared to be false.
One of the best examples to this is the world's famous video footage of a father and a boy hiding from IDF fire behind a wall and a moment later, the boy gets a bullet and dies in his dad's arms. It was shown to the whole world and Israel was blamed for the boy's death. But when the analysts finally found the truth and managed to prove it, it was already too late, the media and the world weren't interested in that story again.
First of all, i dont know why are you saying "The US media is similar to any other media - trying to be as neutral as possible, to get the most interesting stories and to reveal only the truth" when Mr.Fisk showed you and me how unfair the U.S media is to the Palestinians.
Second of all, just because there was one incident where some Palestinians tried to kidnap a U.S journalist doesnt mean that the Palestinians kidnap journalists, if it does happen alot, then yes, we can say that Palestian Militants do kidnap journalists.
What could be the motive for kidnaping a journalist?
a) Have him as a hostage so they could have something for him
or
b) Have him make a report about the Palestinians.
At the time when Mohammed ( the boy ) was killed, i wasnt interested in the Israel and Palestine conflict as much, so all i knew, that another Palestinian kid was killed by the Israelis.
Its a shame if it was indeed the Palestinians who did it, but for now, people dont care, they only saw a Palestinian kid got killed by the IDF.
Now, since this video was shown the world, i bet that Israel worried, and what would they come out with? Something to challenge the claim that it was the IDF who killed him.
Once again, the Jenin incident was investigated over and over again by foreign governments, by the United Nations, by Human Rights Watch, by the Red Cross, and by Amnesty International. The death toll was approximately 55 Palestinians and 32 Israelis.
If hundreds are dead, then hundreds are missing. People don't just disappear without people wondering where they are. Is there a list of hundreds of names? No.
Persisting in myths that are disproven time and again does nothing to bolster one's credibility. It only undermines it.
of course i am against the Lebanese Forces
by the way why did u all stop replying in the "Sabra and Shatila massacre" thread ?
i had new information in my last post
i wish we continue the discussion there...
TWBR said this in post #13 : That is not what the videos are about,
The Jenin video was too show the destruction and the aftermath of the Battle/Massacre.
And the Robert Fisk video was to see how Robert Fisk exposes Israel's lies about the Jenin Massacre. Watch it.
And of course all of this is Israel's fault, not the militants who "have no other place to make their bombs".
Quite frankly, I'm tired of you sounding like a repetitive echo. No matter what is proven about Jenin if it doesn’t support your obsession that it was a massacre by Israelis you simply will not believe it.
Can you find something else to harp on? This one is growing tired. The world already knows the truth.
And of course all of this is Israel's fault, not the militants who "have no other place to make their bombs".
Quite frankly, I'm tired of you sounding like a repetitive echo. No matter what is proven about Jenin if it doesn’t support your obsession that it was a massacre by Israelis you simply will not believe it.
Can you find something else to harp on? This one is growing tired. The world already knows the truth.
