I've stated my opinion on this a few times before in other threads, but I think it bears emphasis in a thread of its own. IMO, the judges are overstepping their bounds, especially (who else?) Simon!
It's basically their show, and in Simon's case he has a piece of the action, but I don't think this is what AI fans want. We want to make our own decisions, not be told by the judges who the next Idol must be. I see their function as one that should be limited to critiquing the contestants' performances, whether good or bad. Even at that, given the ages of many of them, their criticism should be in good taste, and constructive. Paula does the best job of that, but even she is guilty at times.
Randy and Simon have obvious personal agendas. I do not understand that, because they can arrange for their "pets" to get huge record contracts and singing engagements any time they want to, whether those pets are voted the American Idol or whether they finish in fifth place. Why then are they pushing so hard for Fantasia? Simon went so far as to actually call her the American Idol last night. Furthermore, he used a scheme to try to assist her in getting votes, by trying the "reverse psychology" trick. That is over the top, IMO! His place is to praise her performance, not do everything in his power to get her voted American Idol.
I admit that I don't like Fantasia, but that's not my problem. I don't think judges should be doing that for ANYBODY!
I can only hope that America, once again, shoves Simon & Randy's efforts down their throats next week and votes Diana as this year's AI. It takes more than singing ability to be worthy of that title. The winner should not only excel at singing (which Diana does too) but should have a nice stage presence, a delightful personality, a wonderful attitude, and a genuine respect for those judging her. Fantasia has tried in recent weeks to cover up her deficiencies in most of those areas. She will have a great career and earn tons of bucks, but she is NOT this guy's idea of an "American Idol." She would make a great actress, though. She knows how to turn on the phony tears. Jasmine is not quite the singer that Diana & Fantasia are, but would make one heck of a more worthy Idol than Fantasia. So would at least five contestants who have already been voted off.
Simon & Randy, and to a much lesser extent, Paula, STOP SHOVING FANTASIA DOWN OUR THROATS!
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I don't think Jasmine sang particularly well last night, I think she was set up to fail. Diana deserved a little more praise then she got, they don't want her to win (judges). Fantasia, whom I don't care for, was good , however; she was not nearly as good as the Judges made her out to be.
If the judges want to influence the votes so much, just let them pick the winner and don't even give America a voice.
Azi: Thank you for your commentary. You are 100% accurate!
This has bothered me since Season 2 where Simon was mentioning Rubens name constantly and always said he should win. Well, Simon told the world during AUDITIONS that Fantasia should win.
Why bother having the competition if he and Randy were going to tell us who to vote for.? One of the contestants from a previous AI said that it is decided who to keep the camera, attention and name on before the public. Of course, those are the ones we talk about because those are the ones we hear the most about.
I'm hoping Diana wins and proves Simon wrong. Now he is calling Diana Little Seabiscuit because he sences she may win.
they're not telling you who TO vote for, they're saying who you SHOULD vote for but that doesnt mean they like posess your bodies and command you to vote for who they want. You make it sound like because they say that, everyone votes for them. As you can see America doesnt give a damn what the judges say, they vote for who they like. Fantasia is the best, and they recognize it, and acknowledge it. They can't make you like someone, so stop trying to accuse them of doing so! They have freedom of speech just like you have freedom of choice... so quit complaining about them, and just vote for who you want to!
GarlandLvr said this in post #6 : they're not telling you who TO vote for, they're saying who you SHOULD vote for
Of COURSE we know that! That's not the point. They are judges! J-U-D-G-E-S ! They're not judging -they're advocating . I'd love to see a poll of the voting public to decide whether they want the "judges" to advocate or to critique. The fans who prefer someone other than the one who the "judges" are trying to stuff down our throats would like to feel that THEY select the Idol, not the "judges".
Saying things like "You're going home tonight" and "Start packing your bags" are cruel and viscious-totally uncalled for. I felt really sorry for a couple of young contestants who were demeaned in that manner!
Say what you want, but there is no question that the "judges"' preferential treatment to their favorite does unfairly influence many, many voters. Last year it was Ruben Studdard, a very worthy winner (although Clay Aiken subsequently proved he was the public's favorite, by far). This year it is Fantasia Barrino, a very good singer in her own right, but not a worthy American Idol, IMHO!
If this sort of stuff is to be allowed, then to be totally fair about it, each of the finalists should be permitted to have a panel of their own supporters who can offer their commentary, and exhort the fans to vote for their favorite. Ridiculous? Yes, but no more or less ridiculous than what we have now!
There's one word that best describes the "judges"' behavior, and I sincerely hope that the producers call a halt to it in Season 4:
I mean think about the Figure Skating events in the Olympics. The athletes each has a coach who works with him/her and then there are the judges who numerically grade the performances on required elements and artistry without commentary -- just the numbers.
RPS don't fit into either category. They are trying to take an evaluative concept that really benefits nothing but the ratings and call it judging. Their methods are practiced, they all have their own persona and each of them is playing an assigned entertainment role.
I mean what kind of "judge" says ... "You are my HERO ... and I'm honored to be in your presence ?" Please. That is disgusting.
Paula also said it doesn't matter, that Fantasia is a Triple Threat and a star, Randy said he doesn't care about 1, 2, or 3 she's the winner, Clive Davis said he'd sign her regardless, and Simon said she is the American Idol.
They watch rehearsals and they know what they are going to say each week. I believe the whole thing has been designed to set things up for a specific winner, and to increase RATINGS. They did it last season and they are doing it this year.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME."
They created this horserace folks and we bought a ticket. Now put your money on the best horse in the race who may not necessarily be the favorite.
I don't mind them "advocating" who they think is best. What I mind is when I think they are not being objective in their evaluation of the performances. Last year Ruben, who had been strong from the beginning, faded toward the end but never got even a qualified praise, let alone a negative, from a single judge. Clay, who was decidedly singing better than Ruben at the end, got mixed remarks. This year we have Diana who has been extremely strong for 5 weeks straight. When she is great, they say, "that was great" or "you did well tonight" almost with a shrug. Worse, last night Simon gave credit to Clive Davis for picking her song instead or her for singing it well. And when she's merely "good," as she was for her first 2 songs last night, they say "that was just alright." On the other hand, Fantasia, on every number, gets gushing remarks like Paula's stomach churning, sychophantic "I'm honored to be in your presence." The fact is the judges like Fantasia's uniqueness, and Simon in particular is uncomfortable with Diana's age. They just think that Fantasia is more marketable. That's all fine, and they can even say that in their remarks. I don't mind them saying that in their opinion she should be the idle. But first they've got to call the performances as they truly see them. And I'm sorry, but they just aren't doing that. At this point in particular, like last year, their reactions to individual performances are colored more by their overall evaluation of the performer and less by the actual quality of the performance.
Although I am pulling for Diana, I almost hope that she comes in second and once again, like Clay, proves Simon and Randy wrong by doubling Fantasia's record sales. Perhaps at some point the lightbulb will go on and they will understand that their personals hunches do not necessarily jive with popular opinion. Then perhaps they'll go back to just judging each performance as it comes up.
Also ... how about Simon's "tactical" crack about Fantasia needing a sympathy vote. How's that for a slap to the other girls and thumbing his nose at America for trying to analyze HIS game ?
There is more than just the comments though.
Paula chose Jasmine's song ... uptempo, and a challenge.
Randy chose Diana's song ... a slow one to "test" her.
but
Simon chose Fantasia's admittedly to suit Fantasia's style and become "magic".
There's a message in who chose for whom, what was chosen and the way the song choices were 'presented' to the contestants by the judges.
Fantasia had a mix and got a song she could play with, entertain with ... the others did not. ( She also was able bring her butt very close to Mr. Davis' hands )
I have said before, advocating is fine -- but the overall manipulation is devious, and it stretches to music volume and speed and lighting and camera angles and media hype, etc. etc. The outright cruelty stinks.
You know, last season they allowed Ruben to think he was perfect and where is he now ? He has gained a tremendous amount of weight an can barely walk across the stage, his roadies are doing drugs and I have no idea how his concert tour is doing. I only hear about the Clay/Kelly tour and that Clay is going to do a solo tour now.
I think they do these kids a dis-service and use them up, and maybe Diana would be better off as number 2 -- although Clive did NOT say he would sign Diana if she did not win.
If Fantasia wins, my condolences go to her daughter who will be the victim of "Mommy's" fame.
Additionally, the whole Whitney thing was a set-up.
AGREE, AGREE, AGREE. Why are we even having the final. Randy already said "win, lose or draw" he's going to sign her up. I'm also for Diana and I'd just like to see the look on the judge's faces if Diana wins. This AI is starting to become a real joke. Why did Jasmine have more votes than LaToya then was set up to have fewer votes than Fantasia or Diana? I know I'll watch the end, but my full attention probably won't be on the show. I'll be talking on the phone, reading, listening to my CDs, getting some dessert, etc. Why waste my precious time on this nonsense.
Simon said in an interview, auntgoldie, that Diana Degarmo was going to win. They just asked him "who will win american idol?" and he said "diana degarmo" so maybe they're not as clueless as you all think they are
GarlandLvr said this in post #9 : OH and just so u know i do know how to spell Judges... thanks for spellin it out for me though
Just so there's no misunderstanding, I respect your opinion and your intelligence. I only spelled out the word for emphasis, not to suggest that you can't spell.
You're entitled to pick your favorite, as am I. The judges, however, should confine their roles to appraising the individual performances, not trying to influence voters' minds.
I just happen to disagree with most in this particular thread. If we happen to look at the entire season there has been much said about other contestants as well, including the red head fella who in my opinion shouldn't have made it much farther than the original audition.
I've heard Simon praise others including the red head fella I just mentioned. He once told him he could be the one who could win the competition. He told Jasmine earlier that she would probably do it.
As time went by some of the better ones got worse and some of the worse got better. I can understand how they judges would feel after seeing some of the crap that went on during this season with the voting. Maybe they're just frustrated at the travesties we've seen this season regarding who gets voted off.
The judges are human and you can call Simon a lot of things but at least we know where he stands and he's truthful, maybe to a fault but he is.
At any rate I believe they are only pushing for their favorites just as you are here. However to accuse them of injustice I have to say in my opinion is sour grapes by those that do not favor whom is obviously the better of the 3 we saw last Tuesday. I guess even the audience at AI is in cahoots with the judges as well because their cheers overwhelmingly favored Fantasia.
I guess even the audience at AI is in cahoots with the judges as well because their cheers overwhelmingly favored Fantasia.
They say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Funny, but after reading your post I went back and rewatched the recorded Tuesday performances. Unfortunately, I don't own a decibel meter, so I had to listen carefully to the audience reactions as objectively as possible. I certainly didn't hear any clear preference for the appreciation of Fantasia's performances over those of Diana, and to call it "overwhelming" is most certainly a gross exaggeration. Your bias is showing. The length of the ovation was sometimes tempered by how soon Randy began speaking over the applause. There's also no way of knowing the preliminary allegiances of the fans in attendance. If you assume for a moment that the cheers were stronger for Fantasia, which I question, do we know for a fact that each contestant had exactly one third of the supporters there? It is entirely possible that 40% or 45% of the audience were Fantasia fans as they walked in the door, and that Jasmine's fans cheered evenly for Fantasia and Diana.
As for your other remarks, we will forever have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid.
I tend to agree that Simon calls things as he sees them up to a point. He is certainly the most candid of the judges and I appreciate him to the point of perhaps excusing a few cruel excesses. But the pattern I've seen in AI2 and AI3 (didn't see AI1) has been that the judges call things realtively straight until the last 3-4 weeks, then they start to pimp whoever they want to be the idle by giving that contestant's every performance a great review whether it's warranted or not, and nitpicking the performances of that person's closest competitor. Maybe it's just me, but this seems to be a pattern with these judges as the show approaches the final rounds.
woolfe99 said this in post #19 : the judges call things realtively straight until the last 3-4 weeks, then they start to pimp whoever they want to be the idle by giving that contestant's every performance a great review whether it's warranted or not, and nitpicking the performances of that person's closest competitor.
EXACTAMENTE!
And those Fantasia rooters that can't see that are blind!
woolfe99 said this in post #19 : I tend to agree that Simon calls things as he sees them up to a point. He is certainly the most candid of the judges and I appreciate him to the point of perhaps excusing a few cruel excesses. But the pattern I've seen in AI2 and AI3 (didn't see AI1) has been that the judges call things realtively straight until the last 3-4 weeks, then they start to pimp whoever they want to be the idle by giving that contestant's every performance a great review whether it's warranted or not, and nitpicking the performances of that person's closest competitor. Maybe it's just me, but this seems to be a pattern with these judges as the show approaches the final rounds.
And those Fantasia rooters that can't see that are blind!
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Well ..... actually ... they have been pimping for Fantasia since BEFORE she even performed in the Group One Semi-Finals ... and then immediately after and since.
Further, Fantasia has gotten very little heat and no humiliation. I think once Simon told her something about her dress looking like it was her mother's ? and then there was a Donald Duck on helium comment. But that doesn't compare with the onslaught Diana and Jasmine have both gotten like the humiliation of him telling Jasmine to pack her bags and saying that 2 of the 3 safe ones (Latoya and Fantasia) were great and "deserved" to be safe but excluded Diana who was also safe that week.
And remember after Fantasia's final performance last week -- how they all gushed over Fantasia, and said they were honored and that she was the American Idol ?
Well just imagine -- Diana had to come out after that and perform. She had to sing her 16-year-old heart out after that despicable display ... and she did ! She deserves EXTRA admiration and respect for that !
So ... essentially I agree with the both of you, but have to say it's not just recently, but has been constant and has now only escalated. So I guess that makes it almost "exactamente".
Who cares anymore. I'm going to watch it to see the reaction on the judge's faces and see what other fantastic [sic] remarks they say about Fantasia. To me Diana is the winner and that's all that counts in my book.
I’m sorry, but I see nothing here but sour grapes. I know exactly what I saw and Fantasia was NOT my original choice to be then next AI. Maybe the allegiance of the audience is with Fantasia but that in itself should tell you something concerning the last few contestants.
Clive Davis has made several stars in his career. I’m sure he’s well qualified to make the comments he made. I don’t know what version of AI you recorded but it was very clear that they indeed enjoyed Fantasia’s performance more than the other 2. As for your speculations as to the percentages I don’t think is worth addressing since it is simply that, speculation.
I find it simply is a matter of taste. You may not like Fantasia’s talent and that’s find it’s your opinion. I happen to disagree however threads like these have gone way overboard in the criticisms of the contestants. I believe the judges are rooting just like you are for your favorites. Simon will always be Simon and he’s made quite a few comments about everyone, however to blame the judges for Fantasia’s success is quite absurd since they judges indeed said favoring remarks about Hudson, LaToya and a few others that happens to NOT be there in the final 3.
I guess even Elton John was favoring Fantasia as well with his remarks of whom he thought was the better singers.
Like I said, it’s sour grapes nothing more. If you don’t care for Fantasia fine, but to project it onto the judges I think is ridiculous as America is quite capable of making up their own mind WHICH they’ve proven to do on more than one occasion during this entire season.
If Fantasia wins, my condolences go to her daughter who will be the victim of "Mommy's" fame.
Unless you're a friend of the family who knows about Fantasia's relationship with her daughter, why make the comment? Are famous people not allowed to have kids anymore or are you looking for a reason to put a downer on her seemingly imminent success (regardless of winning AI)?
Stephanie13 said this in post #25 : Is that why she's getting all the votes!
We don't know that she is getting all the votes. In fact, she was in the bottom three a few weeks ago, remember? All we do know is that the judges (for unknown personal selfish reasons, IMHO) have been proclaiming her the winner.
We don't know that she is getting all the votes. In fact, she was in the bottom three a few weeks ago, remember? All we do know is that the judges (for unknown personal selfish reasons, IMHO) have been proclaiming her the winner.
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I am under full belief she was the one to be booted off last week also. I think strings were pulled there.
As for your speculations as to the percentages I don’t think is worth addressing since it is simply that, speculation.
quote:
AZIdolfan said this in post #18 :
If you assume for a moment that the cheers were stronger for Fantasia, which I question, do we know for a fact that each contestant had exactly one third of the supporters there? It is entirely possible that 40% or 45% of the audience were Fantasia fans as they walked in the door, and that Jasmine's fans cheered evenly for Fantasia and Diana.
Please reread my remarks. Do you still construe that as "speculation" or as a hypothetical example to illustrate my point? The key word there is "assume". It was an assumption for illustration purposes only, not speculation.
oneofpeace said this in post #23 : I guess even Elton John was favoring Fantasia as well with his remarks of whom he thought was the better singers.
Man you screw up in politics and now this?? Get your facts staright Elton John has been a supporter of Jennifer. That's why he called Americans racist when she got voted off. I guess he didn't take the time to check to see who was last years AI.
Y'know, I was going to post the same thoughts on this. I think the following presumption is a good example.......
quote: oldbutafan in post #12 :
If Fantasia wins, my condolences go to her daughter who will be the victim of "Mommy's" fame.
Scurvy
post #24 _
Unless you're a friend of the family who knows about Fantasia's relationship with her daughter, why make the comment?
Not sour grapes, and only stating an opinion based on observations and known facts.
* The little girl is at this point already being hauled around by others.
* Following the show there is of course all the coast to coast media appearances, interviews, etc. for the winner.
* Following that is the Idol Summer Tour ... they all travel together on busses you know.
* Then the winner will of course be under contract and also be very busy creating the CD album, etc.
* Last year's Idol Studdard commented that he was EXTREMELY, overwhelmingly busy, and even Clay Aiken mentioned that he and Ruben were friends and they tried to talk on the phone but that Ruben was VERY busy. It's safe to presume this year's winner will be busy as well.
So, I guess I don't see much time for Fantasia to HAVE a "relationship with her daughter". THAT is why the comment.
quote:
Scurvy
post #24 _
Are famous people not allowed to have kids anymore or are you looking for a reason to put a downer on her seemingly imminent success.
That's out of left field, and a very unfair accusation.
This is not a case where an established personality is deciding to have a child.
It is a case of a Mother with a very young child trying to get a career going in a very tough, time consuming business. The worst part may be that the AI Machine contractually really owns them all ... but especially the winner.
Because Mommy's fame will steal an awful lot quality Mommy time from the child ... the child becomes the victim of Mommy's fame.
Crazie posted
Man you screw up in politics and now this?? Get your facts staright Elton John has been a supporter of Jennifer. That's why he called Americans racist when she got voted off. I guess he didn't take the time to check to see who was last years AI.
As usual your twisted mindset is evident and shines brightest when you’re attempting to make some absurd point without basis or foundation.
quote from Elton John:
“The three people I was really impressed with — and they just happened to be black, young female singers — all seem to be landing in the bottom three,”
“They have great voices. The fact that they’re constantly in the bottom three — and I don’t want to set myself up here — but I find it incredibly racist.”
This was said by EJ after Jennifer, Latoya, & Fantasia landed in the bottom 3 after his visit to AI.
I think this shows the depths of your perceptions on reality.
As for the latter part of your comment, I’m not convinced that’s the case more so than the technology that allows others to take advantage of the system, however it’s not ill conceivable.
Somehow I’m finding your statements increasingly difficult to dignify as time passes.
Now from the ridiculous to the sublime.
quote:
AZIdolfan wrote
Please reread my remarks. Do you still construe that as "speculation" or as a hypothetical example to illustrate my point? The key word there is "assume". It was an assumption for illustration purposes only, not speculation.
Touche’ I’ll give you the hypothetical, however it’s still that hypothetical and is no less or more fact than speculation. We don’t know how many supporters each contestant had. Though I respect your right to opinion the situation you presented may or may not be a factor as to the audience reaction to the contestants.
I personally believe that Fantasia was in a league all her own considering that last 3 we’ve seen.
quote:
Oldbutafan posted
That's out of left field, and a very unfair accusation.
This is not a case where an established personality is deciding to have a child…..
I think Scurvy’s response was appropriate to your posts. Are you saying that an established personality has a less busy schedule than one that’s trying to promote their career from the start?
Just trying to understand your point here. Are you saying she shouldn’t follow her dream and talent because she has a young child? That’s the way it’s projected and I don’t think anyone is in the position to make that call but Fantasia about her family. Besides, it’s irrelevant concerning the one with the most talent and this competition.
Stephanie13 said this in post #32 : Is their going to be an a American Idol 4
Yes, Stephanie, they announced that there will be a Season 4. Now if we can only get them to change the rules and the behavior of the judges next year, it will be a lot more enjoyable for most of us.
I posted a new thread by mistake instead of replying to this one: Here is what I said. Just disregard the thread.
I also agree with Crazie that something didn't smell right when Jasmine was kicked off instead of Fantasia. As you can recall, Jasmine won in place of LaToya because she was backed by Hawaii who was getting even with Simon saying that Hawaii better call the phones alot. You mean to say, that when it was Jasmine, Fantasia & Diana left, Hawaii stopped calling. Give me a break.
I think after LaToya was booted off, the judges and the network connived a way to boot off Jasmine next. Then when it was just Diana & Fantasia they did the same thing in order for Fantasia to become the American Idol. As you can see, we never see the votes, i.e., like in Florida with Bush & Gore.
This is what I posted to auntgoldie's thread before reading this one
It would be nice to see the votes. Maybe they should have a special where they reveal the voting at the end of the season so people could really see how close the competition was. Or show the votes during the telecast of the results show so people will know that they have to vote more for their favorite to keep them safe. It would definitely throw a whole new wrench into the pot.
I think that something was fishy as well....throughout the whole competition. I am not saying that it was fixed or anything, but I do believe that statistics and probability had something to do with the way the judges and producers put on the show.
I do believe that the best "well-rounded" contestant won in Fantasia even though my favorite was LaToya
They will not show us how the voting goes and how many votes each gets because they people out there who still believe that last year was rigged with Clay and Ruben...they want to watch their backs and will not show us...scarred we will see something or something like that.....
oneofpeace said this in post #33 : quote from Elton John:
“The three people I was really impressed with — and they just happened to be black, young female singers — all seem to be landing in the bottom three,”
“They have great voices. The fact that they’re constantly in the bottom three — and I don’t want to set myself up here — but I find it incredibly racist.”
This was said by EJ after Jennifer, Latoya, & Fantasia landed in the bottom 3 after his visit to AI.
I think this shows the depths of your perceptions on reality.
As for the latter part of your comment, I’m not convinced that’s the case more so than the technology that allows others to take advantage of the system, however it’s not ill conceivable.
Somehow I’m finding your statements increasingly difficult to dignify as time passes.
I don't really understand what position you're taking on this One, but I found EJ's remark to be incredibly assinine. Blacks have consistently been represented in the top 12 out or proportion to their presence in the general population. This year we had 4 black contestents in the final 7, including the winner, and last year's winner as well. The fact that the 3 divas were in the bottom three but one of them won the whole contest proves only that black voters tend to vote in a block whereas white voters do not. The divas being in the bottom 3 was because they split the black vote. But clearly they were also getting significant white votes as well or they would not have been so successful as a group, and Fantasia would not have won.
My respect level for EJ went WAY down after I read that remark.
I don't like Elton John anymore after he said that. It shouldn't have to come down to blacks and whites...because if you look at now that Fantasia won.....we have two black idols and only one white...and that's fine...since that is what American wants...most blacks do vote for blacks but that's just like people who vote for someone just because they are from the same town as you....I just don't see why everyone has to break everything down to being black vs. white...can't we all just get along!!!!!
auntgoldie said this in post #36 : I posted a new thread by mistake instead of replying to this one: Here is what I said. Just disregard the thread.
I also agree with Crazie that something didn't smell right when Jasmine was kicked off instead of Fantasia. As you can recall, Jasmine won in place of LaToya because she was backed by Hawaii who was getting even with Simon saying that Hawaii better call the phones alot. You mean to say, that when it was Jasmine, Fantasia & Diana left, Hawaii stopped calling. Give me a break.
I think after LaToya was booted off, the judges and the network connived a way to boot off Jasmine next. Then when it was just Diana & Fantasia they did the same thing in order for Fantasia to become the American Idol. As you can see, we never see the votes, i.e., like in Florida with Bush & Gore.
Did you stop and think for just a second that maybe LaToya's fans started to vote for Fantasia?
hot4johnstevens said this in post #40 : ...most blacks do vote for blacks but that's just like people who vote for someone just because they are from the same town as you....
Sorry...I was just going along with the person's post in front of mine. I don't know for sure if blacks only vote for blacks and I shouldn't of said it that way....it's just to many people are breaking it down to being black vs. white....I was just saying on an average...more blacks vote for blacks over whites (and I also feel that most whites vote for whites over blacks)...that's how the world works...that's just how I feel...
You may be right HOTFORJOHNSTEVENS. Elton John spoke out of ignorance and it was completely unfair for the other singers. This is a competition for talent and nothing to do with race.
It's too bad that to keep controversy out, a white singer always has to leave no matter how talented. Diana seemed the most talented and versatile singer but I am sure she will succeed despite not winning.
Nattylisa said this in post #44 : You may be right HOTFORJOHNSTEVENS. Elton John spoke out of ignorance and it was completely unfair for the other singers. This is a competition for talent and nothing to do with race.
It's too bad that to keep controversy out, a white singer always has to leave no matter how talented. Diana seemed the most talented and versatile singer but I am sure she will succeed despite not winning.
Diana will do just fine...even without winning. I mean look at Clay...he's doing just fine...for coming in 2nd. It is sad that sometimes whites have to leave just because a black needs to stay. I wish that the shows out there wasn't like that but they are...so I guess we all have to learn to live with it
Diana will do just fine...even without winning. I mean look at Clay...he's doing just fine...for coming in 2nd. It is sad that sometimes whites have to leave just because a black needs to stay. I wish that the shows out there wasn't like that but they are...so I guess we all have to learn to live with it
You have the bleeding liberals to thank for that one.
I truly believe that Fantasia was favored and put forward and touted to win by the Producers and Judges from the beginning.
All the controversy they created this season fueled the ratings and puts money in THEIR pockets.
I think it is sad because every single one of the contestants has singing talent ... and each of the 12 finalists and even many who didn't make the finals appealed to some viewers/listeners and not to others.
I think ALL of these performers deserve better than what they get from AI.
[/snip]
etc. ...............
Zerrick responded to the judging with a definition.
quote:
Zerrick said this in post #132 : Oldbutafan - I couldn't disagree more. The judges have the right to favor a contestant just as we do. Thats what judges do. Its their job function. I don't blame them for favoring the contestant they think will put the most money in their pockets, you're not being true to yourself if you wouldn't do the same.
I have taken the liberty of going to dictionary.com and pulling the deffinition of the word 'judge'. I think this should have been done as the competition was in full flair, but better late than never. I hope this ends all debate of the "judges" role:
judge ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jj)
v. judged, judg·ing, judg·es
v. tr.
To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
Law. To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.
Obsolete. To pass sentence on; condemn.
To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.
To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.
Informal. To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you're right.
Bible. To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.
v. intr.
To form an opinion or evaluation.
To act or decide as a judge.
n.
One who judges, especially:
One who makes estimates as to worth, quality, or fitness: a good judge of used cars; a poor judge of character.
Abbr. J. Law. A public official who hears and decides cases brought before a court of law.
Law. A bankruptcy referee.
One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition.
Bible.
A leader of the Israelites during a period of about 400 years between the death of Joshua and the accession of Saul.
Judges (used with a sing. verb) Abbr. Judg. or Jgs or Jg See table at Bible.
I actually read this as rather than disagreeing, Zerrick is actually AGREEING with me that the judges DID indeed favor Fantasia ... but in his opinion the definition of judge justifies it.
Here I take exception. The RPS triad of "Judges" in the parameters of AI is titular only -- a bit of a misnomer, but what else would they call them ? ( I can think of a few things )
See this here from Z's definition above:
"One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition."
which serves to illustrate my point.
We are told time and time and time again ad infinitum that WE choose the IDOL ... WE decide the winners, America decides ... etc. so something is amiss.
If THEY as "judges" do the deciding... well okay, but then say so. But if WE decide, then WE are truly the judges.
They (RPS) can opine but should be honestly representative of public sentiment, and they are not.
They lobby for THEIR favorites only ... and orchestrate and manipulate to effect the outcome THEY favor.
If it was left only to the American public/viewers/voters ... the Final 2 probably would have been Michael Keown and Lisa Leuschner.
oldbutafan said this in post #47 : See this here from Z's definition above:
"One appointed to decide the winners of a contest or competition."
which serves to illustrate my point.
We are told time and time and time again ad infinitum that WE choose the IDOL ... WE decide the winners, America decides ... etc. so something is amiss.
If THEY as "judges" do the deciding... well okay, but then say so. But if WE decide, then WE are truly the judges.
They (RPS) can opine but should be honestly representative of public sentiment, and they are not.
They lobby for THEIR favorites only ... and orchestrate and manipulate to effect the outcome THEY favor.
I just feel that sometimes the judges pick one person that they want to win....and make sure that American loves them and will vote for them...so they will win....
)