ROTK, is it one of the best movies of our time, and was it revolutionary?

Lord of the Rings Trilogy Forum

The return of the king is, as the adverts say, the greatest movie of our time. It is certainly better than the star wars or Harry Potter movies.

true.

"The Hobbit" is coming in 2006, so they say.

wow, are you serious? You're saying that Return of the king is better than Star Wars, that is fricken pathetic, that truely shows how overrated ROtK is when it isn't even the best movie of the trilogy.

This is Tiger's opinion mind you... I bet you would rate The Matrix as one of the greatest movies of our time, we're all entitled to our opinions

no, It's not an opinion, Star Wars was much better than Rotk. Star Wars revolutionized the movie industry and changed how we view movies. It created the term blockbuster and still has a big of following and has such an influence in our culture 20 some years after it was released. Rotk has neither revolutionized the movie industry and will not be a staple in our culture 30 years from now as Star Wars. It will be remeber as a good movie that got a lot of awards, undeservingly so, but still is not a great nor best movie ever.

I would say ROTK was very revolutionary, just look at the scale of the production. The CGI, the set design, the photography, PJ was a great director, and in my opinion, I think LOTR will revolutionise film-making for the future.

I wouldn't even rate Lucas as a director.

Ah still upset that the matrix didn't get mentioned? well having finally seen revolutions I am surprised it didn't get any mentions at all for anything. At least CGI/Special effects, and the sound track is also very impressive IMO.
And yes, I have to agree with Whidden, saying Star Wars, ROTK or the Matrix are better is opinionated. I could just as easily say Barney is better than Star Wars (which is untrue, you can't argue with that) but its still based entirely on opinion.

you didn't fall asleep during the last half of Rotk? that had to be the worst overly long ending to a movie ever, it dragged on without end, they could've made a much better ending to one of the best trilogies ever, and that is one of the reasons I did not like Rotk. You can think Rotk is better, but in terms of an impact and revolutionizing the industry, Star wars is way ahead. You look at some of the shots in star wars and they look real, and considering the lack of technology they had then, that is quite an achievement when some movies today struggle to even have as good of special effects as it had. The special effects in Rotk were good, but by no means were they revolutionary. Everything in that movie in terms of special effects has been done before, with the exception of Gollum but he was also in Two Towers.

But to some, whether a movie was revolutionary or not has not bearing on how good we think a movie is. Half the movies I love were hardly revolutionary when they came out.

LOTR will revolutionise the film industry because of the epic proportions of the film. It's happening already, just look at Troy, that is a massive film, which no doubt wouldn't have been considered if LOTR wasn't made.

but the story of troy was written thousands of years before LOTR, so how did that revolutionize or influence it?

Were talking FILM industry here Mr Matrix31

Firstly I am going to point out that the first post in this thread was put in the rating the rotk movie and not a thread on its own. Secondly I rate star wars as the greatest 'made for movie story' ever and I was refering to episode 2 which I found boring. In my sole opinion the matrix is just people showing off their computer animating skills. While I admit that the ending of rotk was dragged out to an exrteme the over all movie was briliant (MY OPINION!!!!!!). The difference between the works of Tolkien and the work of Lucas and whoever wrote the matrix is the sheer depth of the stories that Tolkien wrote. He had made mythologies in his mythology and legends in his legend, where as the matrix and star wars are stories made one movie at a time. Thus the lotr movies and everything that goes with them and Tolkiens works shall endure longer than the afore mentioned movies.

White Tiger, I do think ROTK was the best movie by far. BUT, let's not pick on Harry Potter. After all, he is an orphan.

The movies target different ages as well. Tolkien had a universe that he created a language for, and I think the details of the book are what set the movie apart. Sorry guys, Star Wars was just not that special for me but that is my opinion.

Yes Tolkein created a language, but Lucas created an entire universe. Look at all the games, cartoons, books, etc. that have been made because of Star wars involving all the creatures and material made in that first movie.

Matrix31, The original star wars movies were the best Lucas created and will probably last for a long time, however the newer star wars movies I have found boring and long winded.

Apparently matrix31 forgets that not only did Tolkien create a language, wait, scratch that, SEVERAL languages, he also created a universe, a history, and a religion/mythology. Heck, he has about thirteen other books like the War of the Jewels or The Book of Lost Tales, just to help fans like us try, though unsuccessfully, to quench our thirst for LOTR material. I have a friend who has never seen any of the Star Wars movies straight through; fell asleep in every one.

To me, the movies were good, maybe revolutionary. But for me the big thing is the books, which, in my opinion, are no doubt revolutionary. The only way I could be fully satisfied with the LOTR movies was if they were each 6 hours long and nothing was left out from the books e.g. Tom Bombadil(which REALLY pissed me off), and oh yeah, the ENTIRE LAST FREAKING SECTION OF THE SCOURING OF THE SHIRE. Sorry, just releasing some rage...

Anyway, to sum up all the pointless stuff I just said: Tolkien is better than Lucas. Hee hee.

-LOKIM

Fucia said this

Oh it was revolutionary alright. Like Sandy Murray said, it's was such a great epic that it will change the industry forever. It's also because it was so popular. Look at the Harry Potter films, they're trying to make hugely popular books into seven films, but there already losing popularity. And no-one can accuse me of being biased, because I'm am a huge fan of Harry Potter (the books, of course). And White Tiger's right as well. Part of the reason I like The Lord of the Rings so much is because it's not just a story, it's an entire world, with a history, geography, animals and cultures. Thats why books are better than film, because a film can't convey all of that.

Whoa, that was a long post I just wrote!

And I agree with Lokim, the Scouring of the Shire is my favourite part of the book, but you've got to admit, if they'd put it in, non-fans would probably have walked out of the cinema.

I hate harry potter, and while star wars is good, its nothing compared to LOTR,

LOTR is simply amazing and it uses original ideas, not the ever so common and boring sci-fi crap you see

It was revolutionary because nothing on that scale had ever been done before and been successful.

But you do have a very good point.

When I said that, I did just mean that we are forgetting the difference between a good film and a revolutionary one. Just checking that everyone knew that and didn't think I was siding with Matrix31 in any way.

I have never said that the LOTR movies were better than the Star Wars movies. The book of LOTR however is possibly the best ever written.

By the way, it's not the originality of the type of creature he got it from, it's what he did with it that is so amazing.

Exactly

My little follower! This is the only thread I told Pip to come into, not the other way round. Totally uninteresting and off topic, but nobody's written anything for ages, and I'm bored.

Me? Follow you? I don't think so!
Now....you should follow me....ONTO THE HARRY POTTER FORUM!!!!

And on-topic, It was revolutionary. So there. Nyeah.

Wow. The genius of simplicity. "It was revoulutionary". Amazing.

And I don't know what to do in the Harry Potter forum. I feel small and lost.

Pip, it's called sarcasm.

Is it??????? Wow....never would have thought...

What face is that! Anyone going to say something on topic? I'm a bit stuck.

I'd just like to point out that on Espn they had a poll for the biggest pop culture movie of the last 25 years. Now this is a sports based group we're talking about, not people who have strong feelings about movies or is there whole life. The poll was about the biggest movie in the pop culture in the last 25 years. Guess what, the FOTR didn't even get passed the first round, it got beat out by the Breakfast Club!!!!!! The Empire Strikes Back, by the way, made it to the final round. So let's see, how is FOTR made such a big impact as Star Wars has? The answer, it hasn't. Yes I understand this is a LOTR forum, but I'm trying to get you people to realize, the general public does not think as highly of LOTR as you think.

I would have liked to see that show before I can state my opinion on it. If it happens to be advertised to play again, let us know.

also, how large a base group was being polled and when was it aired (since you only mentioned FOTR and niether of the other 2 movies)
also, TT and ROTK are revolutionary to some degree, in that they used a brand new computer program (developed by WETA i believe) called Massif (or something like that) that they used in the battle scenes. It essentially give each computer generated "person" in an army a mind of its own.

It was a poll in the last year for Espn's 25th anniversary, and I'm sure it was a pretty extensive poll, considering ESPN.com is one of the most popular online sites. I'll post a link : http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn...e=bracket/index

That's for the whole bracket. Here's for just the FOTR poll: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn.../LOTR_breakfast


Also would like to mention on the caption about FOTR, they say Jackson has made his case as this generation's George Lucas

thanks for linkage, and i'm inclined to agree with that caption.

This poll could have just been with the same people who the English channel 4 and VH1 ask. according to the channel 4 public Greece is the best movie ever made as well as being the best musical ever made.

According to VH1 Meat Loafs 'bat out of hell' and 'I would do anything for love' videos are the 64 and 67 best ever made. The songs may no be the best but the videos are at least in the top twenty.

The point is that even though it is in a poll not every one would put their choice on it. I personally see an opinion poll and normally pass right by it ignoring it.

Just because it is in a poll doesn't mean that its true.

Well for that group it's true. For them they don't think FOTR is as big of an icon as breakfast club, and for that group it's true. Considering how large of polls Espn regularly has, on average 150,000 people vote on their polls, and most of them are sports fans. So for Empire Strikes Back to make it to the finals in a sports based group, it does mean something.

Fare enough. As I said before I rate Star Wars as the best made-for-movie story-line ever written but I still prefer Lord of the rings.

Wait a sec - this was a sports based group?

Star Wars was good for it's time, but the effects weren't brilliant then and it's pretty corny at times. Don't think I'm against it, I loved the first three when I was little, and I always get annoyed when Return of the Jedi comes way down the list in film polls and A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back get really high, but perhaps they're both on the same level. They both did really well, they both have major fan followings, and although I think Lord of the Rings is a bit better than Star Wars, there's no way were're going to agree, so basically they both have the same legendary quality.

(Star Wars is corny. )

Are we going to get people coming back in this forum now?

well...hopefully. probably when the Hobbit comes out..

I've just been waiting for a long time for people to come back to this forum.

If people don't come back soon I going to have maximum post in International soccer or General discusion threads.

I was on 996 post with most in J.R.R. Tolkien and now its mostly in this section.

Hmmm. strange...I didn't find that scene corny. It made sense to me...
and also, its sorta a never ending argument, because it pretty much all comes down to opinion.

What, the entire Fellowship running in one by one, and hugging Frodo? It's because it was in slow motion.

It wasn't the entire fellowship because Boromir was dead.

We have already worked out that the end of Return of the king could have been done alot better, perhaps just by adding in the scouring of the shire.

As for where my arguments are, I have nothing to argue about that I haven't done before.

oops mah bad...

And I just meant, everyone else seems to have disappeared, and me and Matrix31 are just going over the same old arguments again and again and again.

Do you think this thread is finished? I mean, we're just going over and over the same stuff. I'm quite happy just arguing with Matrix31, but not if I'm on my own.

It could be finished but its the only one people are still posting on in this forum.

Good point. We definately need to keep it going.

And, yeah, Star Wars was great and all (apart from the fact I thought it was a load of rubbish) and it wil be remembered. But things have moved on now. Even though people are still putting down in the Census that their religion is Jedi!

You can't deny it, LOTR has better graphics, better characters and a better storyline, and it may be corny, but most films are at one point!

Lets get this straight. They will BOTH be remebered as some of the ost Revolutionary movies of all time.


And LOTR is way better than Star Wars anyway!

Lord of the rings has had an impact on nearly every author, writer or film maker since Tolkien wrote it. It has change the way people write stories and plots. Not bad for an amature.

Star Wars, in its own way has impacted the world. For one thing it has the most used line in history ("I am your father")

Anyway just a few points there, nothing important.

yes, it was the best movie ever made

And welcome to the Lord of the Rings forum, LOTRROX2. . Just a little hello there. We're trying to keep this forum going, because no-one comes anymore.

I'm still here!!

And I did try and make a truce....but nooooo it still has to carry on...

An what is it with the Star Wars theme here??

Aren't you listening to anything we're saying? Return of the King was revolutionary because of the scale on which it was done. No-one would have expected something like that, with such a big fan following and such a huge story behind it to be successful. Star Wars was revolutionary because nothing like it had been done before, and it was a major accomplishment.

And just out of interest, how old are you?

And how did Return of the King not deserve all the awards it got? You may not agree that it was revolutionary, but it's not like it was a load of hyped up media fame. It didn't steal the light away from other great films that year.

Star Wars was already as big of story and movie as ROTK, so it's not like nothing that big was done before, and to say a movie is revolutionary because it was such a huge film, how the hell does that revolutionize the industry. If you're talking about big battle scenes, we've already seen that in Braveheart, how bout story, oh yeah the story wasn't even for a movie, it was a book, so nothing there, special effects for a big battle scene with as you say independent soldiers, already seen that in Episode 1, which I agree was a horrible film. So how is it revolutionary already, quit saying these explanations that have no bearing and do not show ROTK is revolutionary ever so slightly. Return of the King was not the best picture of the year, it was good, but not better than FOTR, Two Towers, and was not the best film of the year. 21 Grams, Mystic River, Master and Commander, Pirates of the Carribbean were all better films, and I don't see why ROTK was that much better than any of them.

No! That is wrong. The first two films didn't get best film because they didn't deserve it. And what I meant by it being revolutionary is that it was a famous classic. You just don't go about making famous classics into films, becaus ethe chances are it's going to be rubbish. But now, people might actually start trying to make books into films, without the worry that it's going to be slammed by the critics.


And I think that Pirates of the Carribean was a brilliant film, and didn't get enough awards, and it comes into my top ten list of films.

well this is just a great thread and all, but its become a bit circular in terms of arguments. you can say a movie was better than another based on how much of an impact that movie had on the film industry, but when you get right down to it, it has to do with an opinion: which movie you liked better.

And to be honest, i think in terms of which movie was actually more revolutionary, Star Wars takes the cake. That isn't to say that the LOTR trilogy wasn't revolutionary at all, its just that Star Wars did so much more in terms of effects, scope, and the vision behind it is incredible. LOTR built off of that imo.

And as to which movie I like better: LOTR, but not by much. Star Wars is right behind it. LOTR is in my opinion, the best fantasy movie made thus far, while Star Wars is the best Sci-Fi movie.

I dont believe anybody has disagreed with you Matrix. Star Wars did have a bigger impact than Lotr and is one of the best movies ever made, but this thread (Despite it being made from a reply to the 'rate the Rotk movie') is not 'is Lord of the Rings better than Star Wars.

Thank you! And I agree, Star Wars did probably change the film industry more than Lord of the Rings. But Lord of the Rings still changed it a bit.

So, we all settled? Not to say this thread can't go on, just we've stopped arguing about whether Star Wars is better than Lord of the Rings or not.

yup, settled.

Until someone starts again

Don't go there!

Besides you can't compare those two movies anyway because, as I posted earlier, Star Wars has been out longer. I you were to compare the Lord of the Rings movies with any it would probably be compared to the Harry Potter movies because they are popular movies coming out around the same time.

but we aren't comparing films.

Don't start!

Lord of the rings is way better than Star Wars!!!

(I just had to be the akward one!)

Why are you a green umbrella?

Because I am!

Just to throw my two cents in .... (sorry)

ROTK was the worst movie of the whole trilogy, I am a big fan of the books and was very impressed with the first two movie, but I almost fell asleep in ROTK it was so crap. So I seriously don't see how that can be described as "revolutionary". It only won the Oscar because it hadn't won anything for the other two movies and Peter Jackson needed something in recognision for the good work he did on the whole trilogy.

If you were to ask what was the best trilogy or movie series, then I still think Star Wars beats the LOTR Trilogy, just because it really was cutting edge technology back then, even more so than LOTR is now. And thirty years later, Star Wars still has die-hard fans, young and old. I don't know if in thirty years time, LOTR will as big as Star Wars is. (not counting the new Star Wars movies)

That being said, I've never seen a Harry Potter film so I don't know if they'd be better than LOTR, but I think they'd be able the same. And if the Matrix counts in this debate, then I would probably rate that third as a good series, good story, good effects, etc.

You thought it was the worst? Why? I'm not going to argue about the revolutionary thing because I'm fed up and I'm starting to doubt myself anyway. But in my opinion Star Wars definately isn't better than Lord of the Rings, or a lot of films I like.

It was long and boring compared to the other two movies. They had to drag the story out to make it fit a whole movie, if Peter Jackson had put in the stuff where the Hobbits go back to the Shire, then he would've had enough to make an interesting movie, but as he cut all that out, he had to fill up space with blah blah blah.

what blah blah blah?