Hidden Meanings

J.R.R. Tolkien Forum

There are hidden meanings in all of Tolkiens works, some are obvious and some are not.

For instance, Saruman destroying the forest to make his warmachines is how Tolkien felt about the destruction of the forests and woods. He believed those that would do such a thing evil.

What other hiden messages are there in the writing?

Wow this is a great thread Tiger, I wish I knew some hidden meaning I knew of his work to tell you guys!

I have recently done a GCSE History exam on the cold war (Which the teachers at my school knew nothing about and had to learn before we did, anyway). The people in the western world were told by the American and Europian governments that the eastern way of thinking was wrong and all who were in charge in the east were evil (Which is wrong because Communism in its truest form is a wonderful thing but it was perverted over the years and drifted away from Marxes original idea)

I believe that this 'Propaganda' by the western governments influenced Tolkiens writing in a way. For Tolkien always wrote that the west was the 'good' and the east was the 'evil'

I agree, Tiger. There is also a lot of religious symbolism in Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was Catholic, and his beliefs really influenced his writing. Great thread by the way. You amaze me.

Saruman and the power his voice had was drawn off of Hitler.

I didn't know that!

The dead marshes are taken from WW1.

When the soldiers came over the trenches and into no mans land. I think it is supposed to be Tolkiens version of that from what he experianced in WW1 and his artistic vision of what those battles ended with.

almost all of Tolkien's work had some meaning behind it, or something that he drew that idea from. this the place to discuss those "hidden meanings" of Tolkiens works.

Aragorn at Helms deep and on from there is modeled on Winston Churchill. He is meant to inspire the people of Rohan and Gondor like Winston Churchill did during the battle of Britain.

Helms deep is supposed to be the battle of Britain of Middle-Earth. Each character that he focusses on are related to people during the Battle of Britain. Theoden represents the common man and their feelings during that time, Aragorn represents Chruchill, and so on.

Thats very intersting Tiger, I had not heard that before.
Do you know what the Siege of Minas Tirith represented?

I'm not sure, it could have been modeled on Stalingrad or a battle in the American revolution that I can't remember the name of but I don't know.

the Ents march on Isengard was loosly taken from 'the Scottish Play', the one that no actor or actress dare say because it brings bad luck.......................MACBETH!!!!

Tolkien read Macbeth and there is a part at the end of the story where one of Macbeths men says to him that the forest is moving but it turns out only to be that there are people carrying branches towards the castle. Tolkien though it was anti-climatic so he mad it so that the forest really did move and crush the enemy MUHAHAHAHAHA!

Treebeard himself is Tolkiens artistic interpretation of C.S.Lewis. They both taught at the same collage and were good friends (presumabaly because of Middle-Earth and Narnia). During C.S.Lewis leasons Tolkien would hear a low rumbling coming down the hall and so he based the Entish launguage on C.S.Lewis talking. Treebeards attitude is the same as C.S.Lewises.

yes I've heard about most of that from the Extended Ed. Two Towers DVD. very interesting stuff really.

I've run out of Hidden Meaning for the time being but if anyone else wants to put any up...but it is up to you

My Dad once said about how it was based on World War Two. Tolkien wrote in the climax leadin up to the war and during it. You guys are amazing though. You spot all this stuff.

I'm sure some of the things in LOTR had to come from World War 2...That's what Tolkien was going through at the time.

Sauron was a sort of Hitler. He wanted to take over the world etc. etc.

I want to take over the world! Does that make me Hitler?

Off topic a bit - we had this test in our class to see what sort of democracy we wanted, and one boy was like Hitler.

Yeah, it was all sort of about right wing and left wing - above +5 and you were more right wing, below -3 and you were more left wing. This boy got +28

The battle for Helms deep is very much a like to Wellingtons armies against Napoleon.

Rohans armies are Wellingtons lines and Isengards armies are Napoleons famous collums of the "Pas de Charge".

The Pas de Charge consist of sending hundreds of men in a collum and punching through the enimies ranks, spliting them in two and overwealming them. Isengards armies use the same tactis as Napoleons forces.

Wellingtons line consist of his troups standing side by side in a line allowing for the maximum amount of men to fire. Rohan fights like this at Helms deep.

Two facts of war must be remembered when looking at helms deep.

1. a collum never beats a line. The exception is at helms deep when Isengard had far superior numbers and could overwealm the enemy with them

2. no army can stand up to a heavy cavalry charge. (this is before morden warfare ws invented.)

I recently heard this myth that the Orcs were supposedly O.R.C the Oxford Rugby Club due to Tolkiens hate of Rugby.

i believe that there are many hidden meanings in tolkiens works. i don't know if he was actually enlightened or just a very intelligent person with a clear sense of good and evil who produced enlightened works. but you could look through his works and find countless "hidden meanings" because his works are largely metaphors for the timeless struggle of good versus evil. the value of his works and depth of his metaphors go well beyond the events of the World War II era and describe the struggle of humanity as a whole. tolkien was himself a devout catholic, and here's one metaphor:

the "return of the king" to his throne is a powerfull metaphor for the return of God to our hearts. you may see it as Jesus if your a Christian, or Allah, Yawah, Nirvana, Enlightenment, or just a power, but the absolute nobility and goodnes, and the truth of that Power is in all of us. while we live a selfish and fragile ego based existence it is that Power in us that is trying to return to throne of our hearts and rule our lives with absolute truth and completeness. our lives all come down to the inner struggle of rulership of our being between absolute Love and completeness that is that Truth in all of us and everything that opposes it. therefore, i would contend that the "return of the King" is the restoration of God to the inner ruling throne of our being and the expulsion of all the INNER enemies, not unlike the true interpretaion of the Muslim concept of Jihad.