still not as bad as the media would have us believe.

Iraq Forum

I know it, Larke. Thank you for posting this. I feel more honored and proud than ever to be an American.

i know exactly how you feel curley. and when i see these liberal no-nothings on tv, i feel sorry for them. because they have no idea what it's like to feel the immense pride we have for the United States. they just can't see past the doom and gloom reality that they have created for themselves. okay, i'll get off my soap box now.

THANKS LARK, I pry that every word is true

There is always overplay by the media but it doesn't mean their story isn't accurate. Just as sure as they try to up play things our military are trying to down play events there in Iraq as well.

Right now it's simply a mess over there and I do not like the way things have been handled so far. I don't believe there's enough troops in Iraq now and there was no effective plan to deal with post Iraqi insurgents. It's as if we're making it up as we go along and getting clobbered in the process.

Now that we're there we can't simply withdraw. We're involved in a mess or like Rumsfeld put it in 91 when we didn't march into Iraq then.

Make no mistake about it gentlemen. Indeed it's a mess over there and so far we have had no effective plan as how to deal with it.

*ahem*, oneofpeace. I am the wife of a veteran and the daughter of one. My husband works for the DOD and he is closely involved with the Army- he had an opportunity to go to to Iraq as a contractor but *I* didn't want to share him again as he had been gone for a period of time before.

However...his peers went and we hear over and over again about how stable Iraq is. Iraq is HUGE. There are hot-spots without question but we know where they are because they are on tv every single night. But the media is not where his peers are- they are busy setting up the internet, (yes, internet cafes! did you know that???) and phone systems, computer networks, etc. Schools are back in session. Hospitals are open. WHERE ARE THE CAMERAS???? They have begged for news crews to come out but pfffft, no. And this pisses me off, pardon my french! Even Burger King is available. And Pizza Hut. Did you know THAT????

I really get my tailfeathers ruffled on this topic because I do know people over there working on these projects and they are NOT getting credit for their good deeds!!! THEY are over there...doing the good stuff. Too bad it's not being reported!!!

It's WAR. People die in WARS. You know that, don't you? Having said that, the contractors...there were four of them. Just four. It was horrible, it was horrid, I feel so bad for the families and friends. We have lost 600 people. That's it. How many did we lose each WEEK in Viet Nam????? And get this...those monsters who did that to the contractors asked the media to film their "fury". They staged the damn thing. What would have happened if the media said no? Would the contractors have lived? Who knows.

The problem is, NO ONE IS SAYING ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN IRAQ and yes I am aware I am using all caps but this frustrates me no end. I know of the tireless hours they are putting in...and the friends they are making over there, the appreciation the Iraqis are showing them. Many of them are asking for things from home to give to their new friends. Things like comic books, gameboys (do you go around buying gameboys for your "friends"??? I doubt it! I don't!) and it never shows up on the news.

I don't know why I bother except they are puzzled. I look out for them the best way I can.

End of speech!

As i am in video/news production - i can tell you that some make it seem worse then what it is, others make it seem cleaner then what it is. depends on HOW that news anchor wants to feed it.
this goes with every news cast in the world.

I'm usre Alias that there are many hard working people over there in Iraq trying to keep Bush's promise to make it secure. However I don't think it is possible to do that.

Iraq has become the hotbed target for every extremist org that ever wanted to hit us. This will be the case and Iraq will never be stable anytime soon. Indeed there are big problems over there, it's more than just the media. We have no plan in my opinion for it and make it up as we go along.

There is a problem Alias a big one. Even though there is good there it will always be overshadowed by those that bomb and kill American troops.

AliasFan

my condolances to the families of all whom lost their lives over there, the media will always highlight the bad only, never says any goods, this is how they make money
regards

Oh and s:

The bulk of that 600 died after major combat was declared over. How can you expect the media not to report that?

I don't believe we have enough troops there in the first place. Although the numbers aren't like vietnam, it's still a mess with no end even remotely in sight. We will be involved in yet another country for years make no mistake about, trying to bring the stability you so desperately want to believe exists there Alias.

That was suppose to be "Oh and PS"

don't know how I came up with that tongue.

Everyone knows how the media operates and always has. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

You don't get nightly news stories in the States about new burger bars opening and there isn't even a war going on there, so why would you expect the media to cover a burger king opening in Baghdad when there's people killing each other. This administration did not plan for what is going on now because they didn't expect it to be happening. To then start blaming the media for covering the trouble is a little rich to say the least. If you don't like what they're showing switch it off, because it isn't going to change.

As for good things happening there, I hear plenty on the British media - for instance, Salom Pax, the blogger has a weekly slot on one of the top news channels, looking at how life has changed usually for the better for ordinary Iraqis. Are you saying nothing like this is shown in the States?

People killing each other.... lest one thinks I'm a cold-hearted woman with no soul.... let me put this in perspective. I expected deaths. I expected far more than 600 so far. I expected thousands if not more! I expect Americans to understand the right way is not always the easy way.

You know...media is as media does. Just understand there are contractors and soldiers over there buying gameboys, toys, puzzles, clothes, etc. for these people with their OWN money and no one is reporting on it. Ticks me off.

Dreamzwalker, I agree one can make someone look good or bad. That is probably unavoidable since man is naturally biased but why does it ALWAYS have to be bad when it comes to Iraq? It isn't that way! 95% of the population over there is happy to be rid of Saddam. They think there are about 3,000 or so insurgents causing the trouble, most of them from other countries and Saddam's old army. They are trash. Once the trash is cleaned out...

Ah. I need coffee!

Alias there is always something positive in most situations, even in the most dreadful conditions, however negativity always outweighs the positive and Iraq has much wrong with it.

It’s nice that they were freed from Saddam and his evil regime but you have to understand something. That region is volatile and sending American troops there it would appear that our leaders seriously miscalculated. Given the way we invaded there this is only but one of many serious miscalculations in my opinion.

I think it was a no brainer to figure that others will come to Iraq and fight. For so long they’ve wanted to strike at the US and Iraq is their once in a lifetime opportunity to do so. Every Islamic extremist org that can afford to will send people to fight there and the influx will not cease. The reason why there aren’t large amounts of casualties on our part is because there aren’t large amounts of insurgents, just a steady stream of them. They are doing what damage they can in the process.

Iraq is anything but stable. I just don’t subscribe to your beliefs that it is. This will bog the US down in Iraq for many years to come. Why? Because to the Muslim and European world it appears as if the US was lying to gain some kind of economical advantage and all indications point to this.

So now what? We have no choice but to fight but I don’t think we have enough troops on the ground there. We’re in a catch 22 now. Damned both ways because we can’t leave and we should go, but we can’t do either. Meanwhile while the count is low I think the damage of seeing the deaths trickle in almost everyday is having a negative affect on American psychies.

I fully support our troops there. They didn’t ask to go and they need our support. I just don’t believe that Bush was wise in his entire prelim to war and it’s subsequent invasion. And in the post war phase it’s like we’re in autopilot or something. There appears that there was absolutely no post contingency for this and this administration is completely caught off guard.

Iraq a stable place? I think not and it has nothing to do with the way the media is reporting it. It’s simply true because it’s not a stable place period. I trust it isn’t somewhere high on your list for taking a vacation is it? I think you see my point.

Curly Joe, your link was right on. Iraq is NO VIET NAM. Restraint is perceived as weakness by the Middle East but they are quickly learning...oh how they are learning! We think we are restraining ourselves but they see us as weak. It's the culture again.

oneofpeace, you said: "I trust it isn’t somewhere high on your list for taking a vacation is it? I think you see my point."

Actually I do not. This era brought us instant gratification, microwaved tv dinners, 5-minute rice, "overnight delivery or your money back" type of people like yourself who want countries like Iraq turned into a vacation resort in 7 days or less. It does NOT work that way! Good things come to those who wait. A horrid dictator was removed. The trash has to be taken out. An interim government has to be put in place. A real constitution has to be drafted by the Iraqi people. They have to learn to govern themselves. It can take years! WWII took how long? And the aftermath? A LONG TIME, and with the US's help by the way!!! And the big mistake the first Gulf War made was to declare it over in 42 days? Another "instant gratification" pitfall. They didn't finish the job!

Again...good things come to those who wait. So be patient. One of these days you yourself may be flying to Iraq on vacation. I for one, plan to do so one day.

So now that I’ve heard your chapeau, how is Iraq a “stable” country againi? I mean wasn’t this the point you’ve first made? Now you’re saying it will take time? Can you make up your mind here?

And how can one compare WWII to this mess is beyond me. Totally 2 different scenarios and certainly we didn’t go storming into WWII with false accusation, innuendo and hidden agendas obvious before the entire planet but people like yourself and Curley. What fine company you keep.

Does anything that has occurred lately strike you to ask any questions whatsoever? Or are you just a blind supporter of everything Bush says and does like your compardre?

No one expects “instant gratifications” as you put it. Iraq is far more different than microwave popcorn and I think it absurd to make that comparison. However not even Bush expected what has happened there so far. In fact, I think he was snowed by the obvious just like you have been.

It’s more than simply expecting instant stabilization. It’s all about the truth which still to this day seems to be a bit clouded if you ask me.

As for flying over to Iraq, I don’t have that one on my to do list. However since you seem to believe that they are so stable and it’s the media portraying different, I’ll spring for your flight ticket to Iraq so you can bathe in the desert sunshine on your new vacation resort.

WWII? I haven't read anywhere that Iraqis have been rounded up and placed into a building with shower heads and gas pumped into it....

The frame of reference I am using is in context of a vacation.....good grief! He brought up taking a vacation in Iraq. No, it is not stable enough to take a vacation! I did not say that.

What I am saying is, there are parts of the country (even today) that are stable. How do I know? Because my husband has co-workers over there. They are helping rebuild the country and there is not one camera crew there. AND...if something did blow up I guess it would miss the news as no one is there to report it.

*sigh*

We are talking about Iraq here Alias not pockets of it that's doing well but the country as a whole. This is exactly why the US had to hold a press conferrence today on the situation there because it is NOT a stable country.

After one year of occupation don't you think there should be progress instead of this large setback? Certainly this is the biggest of battles since Bush declared hostilities over.

I think the truth speaks for itself in Iraq. The media doesn't need to hype up anything because there's plenty there already hyped.

On the news last night - i saw a video of Fanatics holding 3 japanese people and had a knifes held to their necks. They have stated that japan remove their people or these 3 will be the first to die. I'm not certain where the video came from though - anyone else seen this?

Yes Dream I saw it yesterday on the news. Unfortunately they believe they can force others in concert with the US to break their allegiance. I think they believe because of Spains reaction.

This is certainly a big mess now stirred up. All this invasion into Iraq has done was to give them cause and solidarity. Invading it has done nothing to disrupt global terror and everythng to help it and it's painfully obvious.

Curley do you have another method of defining your position other than "spin"? I mean really, it's growing tired. But I guess when you have no real rebuttal you stoop to such tactics.

As usual you are true to form and predictable Curley.

One thing that you will never hear liberal propagandists like oneof"peace" talk about are all the monumental accomplishments of the coalition. Like the unprecedented-millions of children now in school, taught by teachers earning living wages. Electricity that has been restored to above pre-war standards and levels. Water that is now available in abundance—even in remote rural areas where it was previously unavailable. Hospitals are better than EVER now, although there are more improvements to be made. Dozens of free newspapers have opened up. Internet access to everyone (unheard of during Saddam's reign of terror) along with internet cafes that have flourished. This I just heard about this morning from a CNN reporter along with other good things that I can't remember now. This stuff you don't hear about daily because it doesn't sell airtime.

As usual, oneof"peace" is true to his predictable, liberal form—he and other gasbags like the one from Massachussetts, Ted Kennedy, never fail to peddle their useless rhetoric. Such propaganda, of course, plays right into the hands of insurgents and terrorrists via the media and causes Americans more harm than good. Well done "gentlemen." America, Democracy and our fighting soldiers appreciate your "support."

And as per usual you’re completely void of any real balance as to the cost of this invasion. As you see now one year later and we’re still fighting a war in Iraq and there is still no stability.

No one has ever said in these forums that there is totally no good at all in Iraq. Given the cost of it’s global affects I don’t believe it’s worth it. Because you sit there in denial has nothing to do with reality. You think that some sort of solidarity among Americans only will deter those invigorated by Bush’s invasion into Iraq without proof?

You are truly delusional as I believe you are. You want to point to schools and not bullets. You want to point to living wages and not the bombs. What a trade off here. They can make living wages but chance dying trying to make them and you want to simply point to all that’s well.

Incase you didn’t notice terrorism has been around long before forums like these. If you believe that they are worried about what America thinks then I you certainly need to get on the wagon. Somehow you believe there is nothing we can ever do wrong. I don’t know if that is true patriotism or true delusionalism. At any rate it’s not reality and your continued believe that this is a ball measuring contest shows how truly delusional you can be.

The facts are before you as others have been. Denial or not, the truth is a sobering reality especially for those who cannot accept it and who’s minds reject any notions other than what those whom brainwashed it with.

Truly Curley I don’t know whether to feel sorry for you or not. In reading your posts even if you are right you hold to some twisted ideologies. I just hope you and those under your influence never get a chance to govern anyone but yourselves. That way, the harm can be minimized to those who inflict it.

Obviously, oneof"peace" and I will never see eye-to-eye. That's OK. However, regardless of who is right here, his type of propaganda—and make no mistake, that is exactly what it is, and that is exactly the type of drivel that the trash who are killing American soldiers while hiding behind women and children, like to hear spewed in the media—plays right into the hands of insurgents and jihadists and causes Americans MORE HARM than good. Well done oneof"peace," America, Democracy, the future of Iraq and especially our fighting soldiers appreciate your confidence and your support.

oneofpeace, I'm glad you were not one of those trying to keep us from fighting for freedom when we entered WWII...and the Civil War for that matter. (don't spin it and tell me they were different issues, I know!) There are many other wars I could mention but CurlyJoe has basically told me I'm wasting my time.

Moving along! See you in Iraq...in a internet cafe...in 'bout 20 years?

From the readings of the posts here we remain typically in the kind of opposition between people willing to get a picture of the whole situation as broad and relevant as possible (Oneofpeace) and others who focus on and emphatizes particular points.
One thing everyone will agree with is that the media deliver the material that serves their commercial interests most of the time. Therefore you can get a wrong picture of the reality in a place somewhere if you give too much importance to a few images or seconds of movies. Indeed facts and info are to be thoroughly cross-checked and digested.

Anyway, a few points emerge from this.

Internet cafés, Burger King, and so on open each day everywhere. Such places open in South Africa, close to slum places with criminality rates among the highiest on this planet. Take a picture of this, show it and tell the people around you when back from your trip that the country is modernizing itself and "forget" to mention the dozen of crime casualties having occured during your one week stay. You would have misinform these people as well. We could give the same examples in Russia, where most of the youngsters in some defavorized cities fall into heavy drug addictment and crime.

So, there are certainly American people working peacefully in Iraq, setting up internet cafés, phone networks, and so on, with Iraqis happy to live rid of Saddam. No doubt about it. This is a chunk of the reality there.

But you have as well those hundreds dead over the past couple of weeks there in uprises and fightings. This is another face of the reality. Denying it and asserting Iraq is a stable and peaceful country would be a lie.

The fact is that the situation in Iraq is explosive. Because the tensions between and inside the communities accumulated under Saddam are just ready to come violently to the surface.

Remember Yougoslavia 10 years ago. They did a civil war there. Once the iron curtain disapeared in Easter Europe, the old rivalries and tensions came to light and exploded. The risks are just the same in Iraq, but perhaps with another order of magnitude. Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds altogether in a country emancipated from decades of brutal dictature, and a common possible enemy there: the US army, viewed as crusaders, agents of the west and Israël. This is a barrel of dynamite and the wick is on fire.

You can blow gas as much as you please, Frenchie, but until France puts boots on the ground in Iraq, you-and any other cheese-eating appeasement monkey—have no say in what American and coalition troops do, don't do or how they do it. And by the same token, you have no authority to judge the coalition's accomplishments for which many American heroes have made the ultimate sacrifice.

My calculated guess, then, is that you're likely a Europist. I see why you'd be reluctant to reveal it.

At any rate, welcome back.

Guess again!

Hmmm, you must give me a hint, to make it interesting.

dose it matter where you , him or any one else from??? I dont think so

i'm going to say that he's from somewhere in Canada XD ---

You want to know who I am listening to? Not you. Not Curly.

I listen to my husband's co-workers who are contractors in Iraq right now. As I said before...my husband works for the DOD. That is...Department of Defense. We hear stuff you don't hear. People who are actively working there, sending emails home. Pretty interesting stuff! Not what is reported in the media! Ya know what is really cool over there right now? Bubble-gum! And jumping jacks! They ask for that to be shipped there in large quanities. Huh!

But ya know, the nice thing about this country is we can all have our own POV!

How proud are you to have these troops? Guts enough to sit back and be proud of the "bang" up job they're doing?

Tell me, do you smile at the site of this?:

Warning: Violence

Or are you too chicken to look and face the reality...


disgusting - and likely unquestioned. - Just like Mr. Bush likes it.

And this is supposed to be new?

I have faced reality all my life - this is the reality of battle.
I'm sorry, but if someone took a pop shot at me - and i had the option to shoot back - they would die, or i would die in the process.
If they even had a weapon that would be used against me, and would not lay the weapon down, bang.

would prefer not too, and its sad that things like that happen - but 1990-2004 is not the first time frame for things like this to happen.


That sounds cold, but a adrenaline does weird things to people - it can even make a person, no matter who they are in the world, black out -

I'm not refering to the video, i'm refering to what i said.
Learn to read a little harder.

you are and i knew you were - but i wasn't and you assumed i was - when i made it clear that i was speaking in general.

Um...I don't "listen" to my husband either. LOL. The people I am listening to....are the ones OVER there. They are the ones in the know?

I have never implied all of Iraq was stable. There are definately hot spots (hello?) and it is not safe in certain areas. Iraq is HUGE. There are more safe areas in Iraq than there are hot spots. You can read the blogs of Iraqi citizens at http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/ and if you want to read about the schools- go to http://www.iraqischools.com/ I do more than read about the schools tho. I am actively putting together a box of supplies (and candy!) to send over there. Read thru the supply list. Read thru the letters. Find a school to adopt. Look at the pictures. These are OUR people...helping THEIR people...on their own time...and yes there are some schools in the stable parts of Baghdad. Baghdad alone is huge!

You can't send money. You can only send school supplies, such as paper, crayons, markers, etc. These are kids that are now free of Saddam's brutal regime. But I digress....

The first link has all kinds of blogs. Very interesting!

I went to your Blog sight and noticed two things...

1. The majority of the posts are from the US.

2. The "Iraqis" have incredibly perfect English.

There are two kinds of US soldier in Iraq right now:

1. The gung-ho barbarian who is killing ruthlessly, meaninglessly and thinks he will forever walk victorious.

2. The scared-to-death patriot who knows he's only doing what's "right" but also knows things aren't going "right" and is terribly pissed off at his administration for putting him in this position.


How i know this you ask? It's simple...

You have two types of "letters to home" from soldiers making their way around the web.

1. The letter from type 1 above. The could be the soldier as described above or even more likely is military, right wing propoganda unleashed to rally back the support it's losing more and more on a daily basis.

2. The letter from type 2 above who sounds scared out of his mind and tells it like it is and openly expresses his discontent for the massive failure his administration has become - and the military don't make this sh*t up for propoganda's sake... nor do the leftists as there is already enough proof out there to rule out the need for a "mail campaign of shock and awe".

I have a friend who has been in iraq for a year and just recently came back.
I must say he is like number 1.
He loves blowing stuff up - and has since he was a child building crystal draino bombs.
he has actually only lived in the U.S. since he was 15 - he is a puerto rican Canadian (he is from ON).
I think i'm going to believe what he tells me about WHAT is going on more then others.
He would know more for he has seen with his own eyes. And he isn't the news trying to appease a specific group.

You obviously didn't go all over the site. We can't read parts of it since it is not even in English...and no it is not all from the USA. As an analogy.... you know how you mail things to soliders... APO boxes? Hmmm? It looks like it is going to an address IN the USA, does it not? Internet in Iraqi.... our contractors and military are currently installing internet. Who do think is hosting the sites right now?

But. Here's how life is.... One never changes views of someone determined not to change. Thanks for your thoughts. I shall move along! Not gonna beat a dead horse!