dragons

J.R.R. Tolkien Forum

Thread open to discuss dragons. I am hoping someone will post some cool pictures as well.

Encyc. of Arda says QUOTE:

Mighty reptilian creatures who ranked among the most feared of the servants of the Dark Lord. Of the origins of dragons, no tale tells; the first of them to be seen was Glaurung, Father of Dragons, who first issued from Angband in the middle of the First Age. After Glaurung came many others to strike fear into Elves and Men for the next three ages; among them were Ancalagon the first winged dragon, Scatha who dwelt in the cold northern wastes, and Smaug, last of the great dragons.

Dragons have powers of intelligence and speech, and many are also able to cast the dragon-spell, a bewildering confusion that affects any who gaze into the eye of the creature.

The dragons were not destroyed at the end of the Third Age; some are said to have survived to our own time, but the great worms and drakes of the Elder Days are no more.

Types of Dragons

Cold-drakes


"Now the least mighty [dragons] - yet they were very great beside the Men of those days - are cold as in the nature of snakes and serpents, and of them a many having wings go with the uttermost noise and speed..."
Turambar and the Foalókë
in The History of Middle-earth vol. II The Book of Lost Tales II

Lesser dragons; those of dragon-kind who did not have the ability to make fire.

They were used by Morgoth in the wars of the First Age, though no specific mention of them in this period remains in Tolkien's published work. After the War of Wrath, in which most would have perished, some few seem to have escaped into the northern regions of Middle-earth, beyond the Grey Mountains.

As the millennia passed, their numbers grew, until they became a serious threat in the later centuries of the Third Age to the Dwarves that mined the Grey Mountains. In the year 2589 of the Third Age, Dáin I, King of Durin's Folk, and his second son Frór were slain at the gates of their halls by a Cold-drake. The attacks of these fearsome creatures persuaded the Dwarves to migrate eastwards from the Grey Mountains, and it was soon afterwards that their realms in the Iron Hills and at Erebor were established.

Of the history of the Cold-drakes after this period we are given no hint. Four hundred years later, at the time of Bilbo Baggins' journey to Erebor, they seem to have left the Grey Mountains (at least, Gandalf makes no mention of them when describing the dangers of that region). It is possible that the Orcs who colonised the Mountains after the departure of the Dwarves drove them back into the cold wastes to the north, but we can do no more than speculate on their ultimate fate.


Gotta love the encyclopedia of Arda.

FIRE-DRAKES -quote:

"…but the mightier [dragons] are hot and very heavy and slow-going, and some belch flame, and fire flickereth beneath their scales…"
Turambar and the Foalókë
in The History of Middle-earth volume II, The Book of Lost Tales 2

The more powerful of the two fundamental divisions of dragon-kind, who, as the name suggests, were able to breathe fire. Glaurung, Ancalagon and Smaug were all fire-drakes. The only explicit reference is in The Silmarillion (Of the Return of the Noldor); "…Glaurung, the first of the Urulóki, the fire-drakes of the North, issued from Angband's gates by night."

Smaug, the last of the truly powerful dragons, was slain by Bard in the late Third Age. We can be sure that he was not the last of the fire-drakes, though, because Gandalf refers to fire-breathing dragons in the time before the War of the Ring, nearly eighty years after Smaug's death. Tolkien even goes so far as to hint that some of these creatures might have survived to our own times.

Long-worms QUOTE:

A type of dragon found in the northern parts of Middle-earth, and perhaps elsewhere. The most famous long-worm (and in fact the only one that Tolkien explicitly identifies) was Scatha of the Ered Mithrin, who preyed on the Dwarves and Men of the Grey Mountains, and was slain by Fram of the Éothéod.

Though Tolkien gives almost no clues about long-worms in the text of The Lord of the Rings, his illustrations of dragons give us some further hints. Tolkien's dragons tend to be sinuous, serpentine creatures, having the appearance almost of a winged snake rather than the more traditional dragon-form. This would explain the term 'long-worm' easily. It's interesting to note that Tolkien gave this form to another northern dragon, Smaug, which strongly suggests that he, too, was one of the long-worms.

Were-worms QUOTE:


"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."
Bilbo Baggins,
in The Hobbit 1: An Unexpected Party

Creatures of an unknown kind, possibly mythical and presumably related to dragons, that were said to dwell in the Last Desert.

Tolkien only ever mentions were-worms once, in the quote given above, so we know almost nothing about them. We cannot even be certain that they actually existed - the Hobbits had a rich folklore peopled with fantastic beings, and were-worms quite possibly fall into that category.

If they did exist, the name 'were-worm' suggests a shapeshifting creature like a werewolf - a being that could take the form of either a Man or of a Dragon. Any discussion of the form or habits of the were-worms, though, must remain in the realms of speculation.

OOOO, when I saw the title for this thread I was thrilled...I absolutly adore dragons Course I don't know much about Tolkiens dragons which is why this is such a great thread Fusica Did Tolkien talk alot about dragons in Middle Earth? I havent read a lot of his books but I know alot of you have...I did read The Hobbit and Smaug was probably my favorite character, if you can call him a character I would love to see some pictures too! Maybe I shall have to do a search here to see if I can find anything. You think you could find any drawings of Tolkiens dragons?

There are dragons in Silmarillion, but there was so much going on, I kind of missed the details.

I had no idea that there was so much in Tolkien about Dragons. Thank goodness for the Encyclopedia. I think the information I posted will help us delv into the world of Tolkiens dragons. I will look for pics.

Illustration of Smaug

Smaug meets Bilbo.

Scary Smaug

Dragon at Angband

Link with a ton of drawings of Tolkiens dragons, including one done by Tolkien himself.

http://fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/dragons.html

Wow those are great Fuscia! And thanks for the site

You are welcome.

Tolkiens dragons are much like the chinese dragons. more like snakes with legs and wings, as opposed to the typical dragons of legend. His dragons were also cruel, cunning, and full of malice. In fact, Glaurung's hatred could be felt as a blow if he looked at you. Ancalagon the Black was the most fearsome dragon of Melkor's, and he lead the winged dragons in their last charge to drive back the forces of valinor. the gambit almost worked to, which is a testament to just how fearsome these beasts are. The only dragons that are specifically named are: Glaurung, Smaug, Scatha, and Ancalagon. Smaug, Scatha, and Ancalagon were all winged fire drakes, while Glaurung was a "mere" Wyrm. And he was by no means weak. At one forum i've visited, they began to compare Balrogs and dragons. Balrogs are the generals and commanders, whereas dragons are army destroyers, and city besiegers, though they can lead armies too, as Glaurung did in the assualt on Nargothrond. Glaurung almost single handedly routed the forces of the Noldor in one of their assaults of Angband, and only the Dwarves were hardy enough to drive him off.

So therefore Balrogs are the commanders of dragons? Ok, you lean something new everyday! Thanks for the info Shadow!

Very interesting Shadow. I hope you post more on the subject for us to enjoy.

I love Dragons... they are interesting creatures of fantasy/myth.

Here is a picture of Smaug by John Howe

I read once, on an information site of Tolkien that I can't remember the name of, that Smaug the golden equaled the power of Ancalagon (is that how it was spelt) if not the size, after all Ancalagon, how was it put, "Smote the mountains in his ruin"

You know, I do believe that it was never said if Smaug was created in Thangorodrim or not.

Here is a list of the great individual dragons;

Glaurung father of all dragons
Ancalagon who "smote the mountains in his ruin"
Smaug the Golden
Scatha the long-worm who was killed by Eorl the young's ancestor.

Wow I sure am learning alot about Tolkiens dragons this is great guys thanks...Any more information on dragons is greatly appreciated

well winged dragons were seen for the first time when the Valar attacked Angband. The onset of the Winged dragons was so swift and fierce that it drove the hosts of the Valar back.

Aren't all dragons winged?

nope. Glaurung wasn't winged, and i'm not sure if scatha was. Winged Dragons were first introduced in the War of Wrath where Morgoth was defeated.

Ok....It sounds there were quite a few of dragons, that I don't even know of...How many dragons did Tolkien mention in Middle Earth? Or is it beyond numbering? I would love to know their names and everything

There are many Dragons in Tolkiens work but few are mentioned. Glaurung the father of all dragons was the greatest of the non-winged dragons, Ancalagon was the greatest of winged dragons and Smaug was the other, Scatha was the greatest of dragons to take the Ered Mithrin (grey mountains).

Many dragons were used in the sacking of Gondolin but they were not named. After the fall of Beleriand most of the dragons went into the frozen northern watse of middle-earth.

there are to many dragons to count but the ones that had the most impact on the tales of Tolkien were named.

Thanks Tiger So what is everyones favorite Tolkien dragon? I havent read all the books the only one I have read the whole way through with dragons in it is The Hobbit, so I pretty much have to say Smaug, but what about the rest of you?

I'd have to say...hmm...well Smaug and Glaurung are the only 2 who actually get any real amount of time in the story, Ancalagon and Scatha are essentially just noted for their achievements.
i'd say Smaug, simply because i like flying dragons better than their non winged counterparts. Glaurung is probably even more cunning and evil than Smaug was though, so its a hard choice.
of the 2 others, i'd pick Anacalagon the Black, first because i like the name, and secondly, he's the most powerful of Morgoth's Dragons.

Yea Anacalagon the Black is a cool name, which book is he in?

Ancalagon the Black is in the Silmarillion and when he killed he smote Thangorodrim in his ruin.

My favorite dragon would be Smaug for the reason that the hobbit was the first really well made fiction book I have ever read. Smaug was apparently as powerful as Ancalagon but not as big, but it equals out because the Golden one had a larger part in the stories than the Black.

Smaug and Glaurung had the biggest parts in the stories but of the two Glaurung is actually better. He hypnotised his enemies which Smaug didn't but they were both fire dragons. Smaug accomplished about the same as Glaurung as they both destroyed a realm, they both took mountains as their home for a while, however Smaug held his mountain home longer.

Though I think Glaurung accomplished a little more, simply because he got to wreak havoc on the battlefield, whereas Smaug did not.

Well I suppose when Glaurung came out of Thangorodrim early he did destroy some of the elven forces and wreak havoc BUT Smaug the golden was one of the Dragons who took Ered Mithrin, the grey mountains but because of the amount of Dragons there he left and came to Erebor after hearing of the Dwarves wealth.

Glaurung came forth at least 4 times. he came forth before he was full grown, caused some havoc, and was then driven back. He then came forth in the battle of sudden Flame and the the Battle of Unnumbered tears. he then appeared at the head of the army that sacked Nargathrond. i think he probably wins in terms of body counts to his name.

I can never remember what happened at Dagor Bragolach but at Nirneath Arnodiad the most Glaurung acomplished was to kill the lord of Nogrod or Belegost (I can never remember which) because the dwarves held the dragons off.

Here's a picture of Smaug I found by John Howe

http://http://people.via.ecp.fr/~jm.../howe/smaug.jpg

He is a great artisit really, better than anything I could ever do and the picture is what I would imagine Smaug to look like.

Yea it's just how I imagined he would have looked too Tiger...Does it say in any of the books what color Smaug is? It's been awhile since I read the Hobbit

the link won't work for me...

I always pictured him as a red dragon for some reason

And Shadow the links not working me anymore either....I wonder what happened

i too always pictured him as red, but i guess thats sorta how we picture most dragons. red or black. But Smaug is gold.

Does it say in the Hobbit that he's golden or some other Tolkien book? Your right I picture most dragons I read about as either red or black

It says so in the Hobbit.

I need to reread the Hobbit, as you can tell But anyways back to dragons....I'll see if I can find some more pictures of Tolkiens dragons...I can't seem to find many except of Smaug, any of his popular dragons I can do a search on?

I found this picture of Smaug online, I couldnt figure out the artists name because the site was all in Spanish Anyways, I thought this was a...umm interesting yet cool picture of him

http://http://www.chez.com/tdupas/jrtm/dragon-smaug.jpg

Ack, that links not working for me when I try to open it from here I'll try this...

I saw a good picture of Smaug, I think it was on BarrowDowns.com

If you find it you should post it

I'll have a look later today.