So Much for the Spaniards' Appeasement Approach

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Even though Spaniards folded and sucked up to terrorists when they voted to oust their leader supporting the U.S. position, they are STILL targets of Islamist extremists. Oh well, so much for the cowardly strategy:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europ...ings/index.html

How right you are - those cowardly spanish f!ckers certainly deserve to die in big numbers again. Looking forward to the next carnage, already

"We will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins."
—George W. Bush

Curley Joe
You reap what you sow.

Lets hope it's atomic next time, hey? Spanish cowards!

"We will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins."
—George W. Bush



Words like that make you wonder why such a tough guy got his daddy to make sure he never went to Vietnam.

I bet the Spaniards are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to next "appease" the assassins. Let's see, maybe a statue of bin Laden in the middle of Madrid's Cibeles Square? How about one of those peeing jobs? Yeah, that's it, a statue of bin Laden lifting his robe and peeing in a fountain in the middle of the capital. That ought to soften his "stone" heart.

I'm voting Socialist next election

nope, I'm staying right here and voting Socialist

Good for you. Kerry will need all the help he can get, and then some.

Lets hope it's atomic next time, hey?
---

No bunch of stupid bloody fascists, let´s hope that next guys killed by an Iraki will be your brothers, fathers or friends.

Rob (Madrid, Spain)

The Spanish didn't appease the terrorists. They voted for the socialist party through democratic means.

Exactly. They appeased the terrorists democratically. No denying that.

You assume the reason for voting socialist was appeasement.

Exactly.

a democratic leader is supposed to represent the people. The leader of Spain went against the people's wishes, and they voted him out. Plain and simple. It has absolutely nothing to do with appeasement.

No way would i vote for Kerry - the man changes his stance too much on the issues.

mr. kerry: I'm for it! wait,....second that, against it...
**2 weeks later** can i change my vote? I think i voted for the wrong thing... I feel dumb now...

I do not believe that spain deserves what is happening - no country deserves to be attacked by coward baby killers known as Isam fanatics. If you recall, we were attacked by the same people - and praising terrorists for attacking spain is the same thing that Muslims were doing on the Gaza strip on 9-11
We should not do the same thing

Regardless. Everyone HAS to admit that it was bad for the war on Terrorism. Even if the Spaniards were benign in appeasement. You must view it from how the terrorists see it. Therefore,appeasement. This emboldens them and we can expect a terrorist attack,because of this, in the coming months of ANY election, not just the US. That's just how I see it.
And nice signature Dekka. Pour it over some rice....the kids won't know the difference.

Actually, devildog has a point - even with spain pulling out the way they are - it will not change the fact they are a target. I mean, terrorist blow up and threaten those of their own Islam beliefs - so it doesn't matter if you appease them or not.
Terrorists will see it as a victory though - i read that this was stated by one of their groups in some German news site....if i find it, i'll post it.

lmfao - i've been here longer then you. Yes, i can blame them. that is support for a terrorist act. Does not matter the support - u.s. provided them with money as well. Plus, i do know much about Gaza. I know people around there and from there. you assume too much to come to that conclusion that quickly about me.
I didn't say no real people, i asked you a question - which is still not explained with concrete reason.
There is no excuse to praise the DEATHS of thousands of people aside from hate and longing to do the same.,

That's not good enough. They do the same thing - not as large a group - but the same thing each time a terrorist attack is fulfilled.
When a terrorist is killed or stopped before they can accomplish their primary goal - they say "more death will now come" interesting.
it does NOT MATTER, what country is attacked. muslims all over rejoice in the death - not the sane ones, the fanatic terrorist ones.
does not matter if it hits America or no.


What bullsh!TT? hmm, you must have brown eyes.
sure, there is a lot of that - but your going to get that when you bash a country.
how about this, your country smells like Sh!t and is filled with beast lovers and deserves to be nuked? sound familar?
That's what your saying about my country - you think i'm not going to defend it? that's a stupid notion.

you expect others not to defend it -
we support our people - we do not support mindless slaughter - if you think we do, then you are blind, ignorant, very unwise, unknowning, bias, prejudice, and racist wrapped in one.

My brotheren lost one Monday in Falujah. What an incredibly difficult task they have on their hands. Probably the worst assignment a Devildog could get. God speed boys. They have already conducted 18 raids and captured 42 anti-coalition suspects — all within a 24-hour period spanning Sunday and Monday. They have to go door to door in that hellhole. Nobody better on the planet to do it , though. The Marines will straighten that sh!t out real fast. Just watch. Semper fi

Where's that thread?

I don't understand this rhetorics from right wingers about "appeasement". Truely this is a load of crap.

90 % of the Spaniards were opposed to the war on Iraq before its start - yes, 9 in 10. Among the highest rates in Europe and the world at large. But it did not deter Aznar to send troops there and willingly undermine the european community construction process - with the interested blessing of the Bush clique.

This apalling idiot has been voted out - "kicked out" is more appropriate - by this majority of people, furthermore infuriated by the blatant lies about the authors of the attempts in Madrid (the Spanish embassies were told, even when serious facts about the muslims involvement were being shed light on, to defend the thesis of an ETA's attempt).

The new elected PM told two things immediatly after the result of the elections:

1 - troops back in Spain.
2 - Spain stop immediatly to block the building of the European institutions - it is fully back in the process.

The morale of this story is that once in power in a democratic country you should never forget who did put you in office - the people.

You Bush admirers can keep on with your appeasement rhetorics - what a joke. Don't you even bother to write something credible ?

In November 2004, it is possible that a majority of Americans will choose to - how do you say ? - "appease" the White House.

Is Canada also responsible for appeasing the terrorist with their socialist government?

one day we'll nuke ourselves back to the Stone Age, and the nuclear winter will kill off everyone except the ones that know how to survive off the land of scarce resources, and we'll all be peaceful tribesmen...

There ain't no slidin' out the back of the bat cave with the Marines on duty. It is a thing of beauty to watch 'em work. I tell the ones I am in contact with about you Curley( and others larke whidden sayzak among a few) and your Patriotism. It is a motivator to say the least. These guys aren't pencil pushers and they love to hear how proud some of us are of them. Good job boys. Ew rah

I will CJ. Hey did ya hear about a letter from the same group responsible for the Train bombings. They are addressing (their) Gov in writting already. I believe they are making their next demands, in fact. Something like, get out of Iraq NOW and also get out of Afganistan. Looks like the terrorists think the Spaniards are their b!tches after all. Does it look like appeasement now?

Don´t know exactly how much you know about spanish governments and spanish politic, but I guess it´s not too much (even nothing).

The Spanish socialist party leader (who will gov spain next 4 years) didn´t accept any demand from the 11M terrorist, cause he can´t, he´s not the spanis president yet.

They promised the returnirng of the spanish troops to Spain from the beggining of the electoral campaign, so it wasn´t a reaction to the attack.

Aznar and his Gov, lost the elections because after the 11M attack, they lied the people, trying to make us think that the attack was made by another terrorist group (ETA) and consecuently hide the conection between the attack and the Aznar suport to Bush and Blair in the Irak war. If you consciously lie to your own people you dodn´t deserve to continue in the goverment (at leats in democratic countries as Spain).

G.W.Bush promised that the control of Irak will return to the Iraki at June 30 (this day a provissional goverment will take control of the country) so the pressence of Spanish troops as "occupation forces" from this day on is no longer neccesary.
If you have not been able to pacificate the country it´s your problem.

Your actions in Irak and Afghanistan (where is BL?, maybe the CIA is hidding and supporting him like they did years ago) and your relationship with the Israel terrorist Goverment, etc...instead pacifying the world have turned it worse and more dangerous for many people, so if your goverment wants to continue financiating dictatorships and creating wars (to use the weapons excedents), do it, but don´t expect the world (or at least many Euro countries) to follow you.

R.

Look Rob, Your rhetoric or mine is meaningless. What matters is how do the terrorist see it. I (along with others) have been saying this all along. This letter from the terrorist org. responsible for the bombs in Madrid just prove that we were right. They DEFINITELY think they controlled the election(which is why it will happen again elsewhere) and they feel their way of terror can accomplish their goals. They said to get out NOW ,not June 30th! And just like the mold of Islamic fanatics, it will never be enough. They also DEMAND forces to be removed from Afghanistan. Even if they did this, do you feel the terrorists will be complacent or do you think they will have further demands? Which is basically payment for not killing their citizens BTW. Your answer will show how much you know about terrorists/Islam.

So is this thread to attack Terror, Socialism or Spain? cos all three have taken more of a hammering than the people of Fallujah.

If the Scoailists won they were always going to pull the troops out of Spain we all knew that so why now do we treat it with such hooror? It is the same if the Liberlas were to win an election over here ( fat chance) or governmnet was to change in Japan and one of the western european countries whose name I cannot remember.
Also this is a WAR on terror as we are constantly reminded, and we should remember that nobody should be dragged in to a war of any kind aginst thier will, Spain has made thier choice an wether we agree or disagree with that we should at the very least respect that and let Spain get on with it on thier own and face the consquences be they good or bad.
As for the poeple that are ahving a go at the Socialist parties that "appease" terroroists Cabada has already been mentioned as a socialist government that is the coaltion but what about the US's biggest ally the UK yep the Labour party is firmly based on a socialist style of government so how come Canada and the UK govermnets are not getting hammered about thier socilaist parties is it because they are toeing the UK line on war?

Devildog did you say you have family out in Iraq or did I misread it? if you do I will pray for them cos I know the pain of losing people you care about in action. I do not like Bush or Blair but I wont stand for people attacking the soldiers who have little choice about what they do but continue to fo it with courage and proffesionlaism.

I read a few things here in this thread and would like to comment.

There is a clear distinction between the administration in office, the people, the militaries on the ground.
The people are making the country what it is, in its diversity and greatness. The militaries are doing their duty. Every sensible person can do nothing else but wishing them to be back home safe from Iraq. They are doing their best there, as wrote Lodgebo, with courage and professionalism.
Now being opposed to the Bush clique is not the same that being opposed to America. Some of you people systematically wrap yourselves into fierce nationalism and flag waving, viewing any criticism against the government wrongdoings as a direct attack against the country. This is not reasonable. Step back a little and breathe some fresh air.

Problem is - if you hate Bush, you'll hate Kerry even more. Lol - he changes his mind faster then NASAs moc 7 (5000+mph) jet over CALI
Oh, the only thing they could find is an idiot...sucks too - i'm getting tired of voting for idiots.

Nader 04!

Yes, please vote for Nader! Please!

Timmy!!! er ah eh ffff timmy! tim tim bblblbl tim timmy! '04

I'm voting for Nader. Let Bush get reelected, I really don't care. Down the road, maybe Republicans and Democrats are going to get embarassed.

i have not decided who i'm voting for - like i said, they all seem rather incompetent to me.

OK, I´ve had it with all this foolishness about "appeasement".
1) It has been a promise of the new Socialist President Zapatero´s, since long before the March 11 attack, that, if he got elected, he would take Spanish troops out of Iraq, unless, within a reasonable period of time, the UN was permitted to take charge of the situation. Thankfully, there was a record voter turn-out in the elections (about 73%, if my memory serves me well).
2) The U.S.A. doesn´t know doodly-hoot about terrorism in comparison to Spain. They´ve been dealing with it for decades, and doing a darn good job of fighting it. ETA, the Basque separatist band, is tremendously weakened now that almost all its major leaders have been tracked down and brought to justice.
3) The Spanish people, whether under a right-wing or a left-wing government, have shown themselves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be a people united against terrorism and its deplorable tactics.
4) Spain is a democracy. The new democratically-elected government is headed by the Socialist Party -- like it or not!!!
5) Spain´s Muslim community are uniting against terrorism. They are now in the process of forming, as already exists in France, an Islamic council, who will ensure that Spanish Islamic mosques are not polluted with terrorist fanatics, and will help to isolate the extremist elements of so-called "Islam".
Instead of condemning Muslims, how about working together with them to defeat terrorism? Or is that too much for your pride?

"Trash bin laying?" Come on man. That's a stretch.

Chainnech,

You wrote it as it is about Spain. But I doubt it will be taken into account by some of the people here, who obviously prefer the false comfort of their biased certainties about other countries and cultures. They spend their time on this board patting each other in the back. That's pathetic. Some of them could have done a beautifull career inside some communist institution in North Korea or somewhere else like that. They are perfectly minded for that. How sad.

WASHINGTON POST—When confronting an existential enemy -- an enemy that wants to terminate your very existence -- there are only two choices: appeasement or war.

In the 1930s Europe chose appeasement. Today Spain has done so again. Europe may follow.

One can understand Europe's reaction in the 1930s. First, it could almost plausibly convince itself that Hitler could be accommodated. Perhaps he really was only seeking what he sometimes said he was -- the return of territory, the unification of the German volk, a place in the sun -- and not world conquest.

Today there is no doubting the intentions of Arab-Islamic radicalism. It is not this grievance or that (U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia). It is not this territory or that (Palestine, Andalusia). The intention, endlessly repeated, is the establishment of a primitive, messianic caliphate -- redeeming Islam and dominating the world. They have seen the future: Taliban Afghanistan, writ large.

Moreover, Europe in the 1930s had a second excuse. The devastation of the first world war, staggering and fresh in memory (France and Germany lost a third of their young men of military age), had made another such war unthinkable. This does not excuse appeasement -- it cost millions more lives in the second world war -- but provides context and possibly humility. One has to ask oneself: Am I sure I would not have chosen the cowardly alternative?

Nonetheless, it was still the cowardly alternative. And today Spain has chosen it -- having suffered not Europe's 20 million dead of World War I but 200 dead in the Madrid bombings.

The Socialist Party placed the blame for the attack not on the barbarians who detonated the bombs but on the Spanish government that stood with the United States in its war against the barbarians. The Spanish electorate then voted into office the purveyors of precisely that perverse view.

Spain will now withdraw from Iraq, sever its alliance with America and, as Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has promised, "restore magnificent relations with France and Germany."

Nonetheless, Spain is just Spain. The really big prize is Europe. Which is why the most ominous development of the week was the post-Madrid pronouncements of Romano Prodi, the president of the European Commission.

"It is clear that force alone cannot win the fight against terrorism." Sounds reasonable until you hear Prodi's amplification of the idea just two days earlier. "We know that international terrorism wants to spread fear," he said. "Fear generates not so much justice but rather vengeance, which chooses war to answer the need of security. . . . We become prisoners of terror and of terrorists." In other words, making war on terror is unjust, fearful, mere vengeance and ultimately a victory for terrorism.

If not war, then what? A centerpiece to Prodi's solution to terrorism: a new European constitution. I'm not making this up: "to defeat fear we only have democracy and politics. . . . Today for us, politics means building Europe completely with its constitution and its institutions."

This is beyond appeasement. This is decadence: Terror rages and we tend our garden.

Prodi is right that the war on terror is not resolved by force alone. How is it won apart from hunting down terrorists and destroying terrorist regimes? By reversing the Arab-Islamic world's tragic collapse into oppression, intolerance and destitution, in which popular grievances are cynically deflected by repressive regimes and clergy into the virulent anti-Americanism that exploded upon us on Sept. 11, 2001. Which means trying to give desperate and oppressed people a chance at the kind of freedom and prosperity that we helped construct after World War II in Europe and East Asia.

Where on this planet is this project most engaged? Iraq, where day by day the U.S.-led coalition is trying to build a new civil order characterized by pluralism, the rule of law and constitutional restraints. Even a modicum of success in this enterprise would constitute a monumental strategic advance, a historic change in the very culture of the Middle East.

Spain's response to this challenge? Abandon the effort.

So when Zapatero and, more important, Prodi speak of nonmilitary means to combat terrorism, they don't mean draining the swamp by gradually building free institutions. They mean buying off the terrorists, distancing themselves from America and seeking a separate peace.

Sure, they will continue to track down individual al Qaeda terrorists. But that's no favor to anyone. They want to make sure there's not another Madrid, in case European appeasement is not quite thorough enough to satisfy the terrorists. But on the larger fight, the reordering of the Arab world that produced the terrorists, they choose surrender.


By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, March 19, 2004

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...8¬Found=true

The dogs of war don't negotiate
The dogs of war won't capitulate.(D. Gilmour)

I can't quite believe this pile of junk, again from the one and only Charles Krauthammer.

Today there is no doubting the intentions of Arab-Islamic radicalism

What is this dim-wit talking about? How many times? There was NO ISLAMIC RADICALISM threatening anyone from Iraq before we invaded. There was no terrorism. If there is now and if we have many times more enemiess in the world then Krauthammer should be pointing at the man who's brought this on - Mr Bush. But no he insists we should all be blaming the Spanish for the Iraq mess.

By reversing the Arab-Islamic world's tragic collapse into oppression, intolerance and destitution, in which popular grievances are cynically deflected by repressive regimes and clergy into the virulent anti-Americanism that exploded upon us on Sept. 11, 2001. Which means trying to give desperate and oppressed people a chance at the kind of freedom and prosperity that we helped construct after World War II in Europe and East Asia.

What is this rubbish about us "giving freedom" and helping these "oppressed people"? We prop up and support these "oppressive, intolerant" powers - THAT'S WHY WE ARE HATED IN THE WEST. That's why Bin Laden has so much support. "Britan currently has a military mission that is providing 'internal security training' to the Saudi Arabian National Guard (SANG). The 75,000-strong SANG is specifically designed to defend the royal family from social unrest and military coups from the regular forces." Mark Curtis, Web of Deceit, 2003

But on the larger fight, the reordering of the Arab world that produced the terrorists

So we are "reordering of the Arab world " BY FORCE and the Arabs will like it an accept it and be just ever so happy as we kill thousands in the process. How did the Project for the New America Century ever get off the drawing board?

They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war, there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason.

- Ernest Hemmingway


Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

- Dwight D. Eisenhower


Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country

- Hermann Goering


War is the continuation of politics by other means

- Karl Von Clausewitz, In War

haha

touché

"I hate quotation. Tell me what you know."

-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

This is probably the truest quote - "Only the dead have seen the end of war"
Plato 427B.C. - 347B.C.

While Curly quoteing Winston Churchill I though he would like this one.
" The Americans will always do the right thing..... After they have exhausted all the alternatives"
It's only humour so do not get offended
You gotta admit that is pretty funny

"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half."
—Sir Winston Churchill

The power of an air force is terrific when their is nothing to oppose it. I was just thinking of shck and awe when that popped in to my mind.
I have to other quotes one that I found funny but you will probably hate curly so look away now " The reason the American army does so well in wartime, is because war is chaos, and the American army practices it on a daily basis" Unknown German General WW2
The serious one is from Otto von Bismarck "anybody who has seen the glaze in the eys of a dying soldier will think long and hard before going to war"

"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid."
—General Dwight D. Eisenhower


"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want."
—General William T. Sherman

"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" --President Abraham Lincoln

"From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots."

—Thomas Jefferson

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

You guys are killing me.lol Since you guys are the masters, someone shoot me a link of Lincoln's quotes. I love the way he spoke. The elegant manor in which he would THRASH people verbally( like Gen.McClellan ) is hilarious. Thanks

"I hate war it's futility, brutality and it's stupidity" Einsenhower

" Soldiers win wars and leaders take the credit" Napolean

" how lucky it is for leaders that men do not think" Hitler

" it is always more difficult to fight against a faith than knowledge" Hitler.

Thanks Joe

Nice quotes.

it is nice to see what people think about the state i am living in. i have noticed, however, that there is a tremendous lack of information and knowledge about things happening here, devildog and curley joe are the absolute masters ajsjasjasjas.

Ignorance and prepotence are bad friends of critic and constructive thinking ructive

mister joe,

it is just so funny to hear your comments....The main objective of this forum is to discuss about some of the most interesting subjects happening in our days. Maybe in the USA it is different, but here, when we discuss, we try to develop and sustain our ideas in facts and things we can perceve and prove. This kind of methodology is called scientific thinking, it is useful, I strongly recommend it to you.

I am sorry if you consider my opinions, not on what i say, but on where I come from (europe, asia, america, is that important??). You confused the item, your deffensive reaction is focused on your national feelings. I do not attacked the USA, I am critisizing YOUR opinions. The country where you come from has 0 relevance for me. If your reasonements are weak, poor and based on false premises and biassed information, that is not my problem, but yours.

an other thing...ispania has an H, it is Hispania and it is not my España, I am not spanish. I am Catalan, it is not the same, altough we are integrated in the spanish kingdom. I do not speak spanish, i do not feel spanish. I voted, however, against the pseudo fascist government the state had and i am proud of having done this way. Some actions of the new government are questionable, but it reflects the sense of the vast majority of the peoples and nations composing this country. In catalonia, the old government was voted by less than the 11% of the voters. Other regions are different, but as I, most people voted against the manipulation, lies and prepotence of the old goverment. People in the power are my servants, if I can not trust in people working for me it is my responsability to fire them. Thats what we did.

Spain is a very complex country (4 languages, 4 nations, 17 comunities, 20 political parties with representation, independist movements, a long and complicated history...). Spaniards are used to negotiate, to talk and not to use force because to manage such a mixture, comprehension and discussion are basic. Force has only represented war, destruction and dictatorships for the peoples living in this state. That is, maybe, a big difference between spain and other countries and this has marked the last 25 years of democracy in this state.

Not even spaniards agree and understand who they are, so please, do not tell me how they think and how they feel. Terrorism is nothing new for us and this do not influenced the results of the elections. I did not voted in fear, i voted against a government who lied and manipuled the investigations of the terrible attacks that happened in Madrid, tha capital city for some of the nations composing this state. We have seen many people die in terrorist attacks, also in times were terrorism was an instrument of some nations to mantain their influence in complicated areas of the globe. I do not fear terrorists, I scorn them, and most people here do the same.

So please, do not come with simplistic and childish analysis of such a situation, and please, do not read only your newspapers. Most articles in the USA about this issue were an insult to the intelligence.

Kazak,

I have been posting very close ideas about Spain and other european countries. But you won't reach anything by discussing with people like Curley Joe. All what you will gain in return will be prejudice, categorisation, and "US-hating" labeling.

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=16710

who would terrorist vote for?

hahahaha

who the **** cares who the terrorists would vote for. They're not voting.

Since the beginning, it is wrong this hole war. "Why, a hole part of NYC was blowed apart, and no one is responsable, don´t we have to seek the authors and take them to the justice?".

I agree with that, more than you think. Here in Argentina, during the "Dirty War" people wanted that the "Suversivos zurditos comunistas" go to jail, or just kill them. Why? Because a group of terrorist under the flag of socialism attacked innocent people daily in the whole country. A kid here, an spanish there, a general and his soldiers in a Sunday barbacue.

Of course, the scare was so much, the people was so affraid, that they started to go to the streets and, with flags in hand, asked for a military goverment "Poner la casa en orden".

The military reached the power and started the war against the "suversión". The work was so good that they killed the 30.000 "zurditos comunistas". 30.000! Do u have an idea how much is that? The whole argentinian professional army had 14.000 regular soldiers. Damn! We should be socialist now, at this time. With much less, Cuba is castrista.

It wasn´t true. 30.000 people was killed, and much of the were simply studentes of university.

But, the military fullfilled their objetive: they destroy the terrorist force in Argentina. But, ¿at what cost? People was affraid to show any political position for more than ten years, families had been broken, individualism had the power for more than ten years, there was no help for the poor or for the worker for a lot of time. Now, we watch our economy and we realize that politics is the preview of economics: 50 % of the country is under the poverty line.

When we question us "Why?". What was the argument that used the military to kill all those people? "They were socialist". And, then, we realize the problem. You can´t declare war to a concept, it is impossible, because every antagonism means, for the one that speaks of it, that exist a good and a bad part. For example: "fascims or socialism" "catholicism or muslim" "lutheran or calvinian", "terrorism or free world".

And you use the categories for the developing reality, that means: u can always be a litlle better. With an example: Subvertion borned from the socialism, then, after killing the subvertion, we killed soci