No War for Israel

Israel & Palestine Forum

http://www.nowarforisrael.com/

A must read ...especially for Americans..

Im going to post something Huge from that site, its BIG.

To do what? To increase American hatred toward Jews and Israelis? If you read thoroughly and dig for more material on the information posted on that site, you may notice how many details have been hidden and changed. You may notice that only one side of the story is told.

I believed you were smart enough to ignore such non-neutral, propagandic sites which are meant only to give birth to hatred and succeed in brainwashing people, by alternatively calling it "open your eyes to the truth".

I can find dozens of such sites against Israel and against Palestinians. I learned to ignore both.

No, i dont want Americans to hate Jews or Israelis, I want America to learn of the terrorists acts that Israel has done to the Palestinians,Lebanese,The British, and the Americans, i want to spread the Truth to people.

Then before you spread it, think well and recheck - whether it is indeed the truth.

And I suggest that you look into neutral and trusted historical sources before answering to my question "What has Israel done to Lebanese, British and Americans?"

Lebanese - It occupied Lebanon for a period of time, which Israel slaughtered thousands of Lebanese people in the refugee camps.

British - In the 1940s, Zionists kidnapped British Soldiers and tortured them to death, also, Zionists bombed the King David Hotel which killed Palestinians and British.

America - Israel attacked the U.S Liberty shiped killing 34 American Soldiers during the Six Day War, also, Israel has been creating hatred toward America which is no created terrorism against America.

There, you see?

I guess you haven't read my very-old posts on this board which explain what happened during 6 day war, the Lebanon war and the 1930s and 1940s. I believe you'd have a different perspective if you knew more information and more accurate one.

As for your last statement, tell me this:
If you are hated by a guy and that guy hates your friends just because they're friendly to you, should everyone else hate you for 'causing' your friend to be hated by that guy?

USA aids Israel for its own interests and it's not like Israel blackmails USA or anything. Terrorist attacks against USA happen partially because of that aid and partially because of Christianity, which Bin Laden hates so much. It's not like Israel sends those terrorists or makes terror happen. If you remember, Israel warned US about 9/11 and till this very day, Israeli and American intelligence are in a good relationship.

9/11 brought some hope to Israeli hearts that USA's counterattack will somehow remove danger imposed on Israel from its neighbouring countries (IE. Saddam's WMD threats). It also brought hope that USA will understand in what position Israel stands with all the suicide bombings. But you can't blame Israel for causing it.

As you know, those who went up cheering in the streets were the Palestinians, burning Israeli and USA flags.

Just like many people say on the board nothing can justify the suicide bombings, im gonna say it here

Nothing can justify the slaughtering of Palestinian civilians, Lebanese civilians, British troops, and American soldiers and peace activists by Israel.

Slaughtering is what you call it? You really think that Israelis have slaughtered civilians? For what, for fun?

Perhaps civilians died during this 56 year old war between Arabs and Jews, but you should know that innocent people always die in wars, mostly not on purpose. Every single country in this world "slaughtered" civilians. The amount of people killed depends on how wide the conflict is and its length.

Every other country, had it switched places with Israel, would have done about the same thing Israel does.

come on TWBR...have you forgotten...? Israel is always above the law...remember that? They are GOD's chosen people...how could you forget that...?

Slaughtering is what you call it? You really think that Israelis have slaughtered civilians? For what, for fun?

Hmm, and you say that im brainwashed, havent you ever heard of the Shaba massacre?

Perhaps civilians died during this 56 year old war between Arabs and Jews, but you should know that innocent people always die in wars, mostly not on purpose. Every single country in this world "slaughtered" civilians. The amount of people killed depends on how wide the conflict is and its length.

Like i said, its all war crimes.

Every other country, had it switched places with Israel, would have done about the same thing Israel does.

Wrong, who the hell are you to say this? God?, because God is the only one that knows who would do the same thing as Israel, besides the Nazis and the Islamic Extrimists.

Yes I did. What happened there is still a mystery. Both sides claim contradicting things. Israeli version says that they allowed Lebanese Christian Phalangists to enter Sabra and Shatilla in order to kill/arrest the 200 armed PLO activists stationed in the camp, but as soon as they heard that these Phalangists were committing a massacre, they ordered them out. That there were 35 women and children killed among hundreds of dead. The rest were Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, Algerian, Pakistanian and Iranian men. According to Israeli version, the Arab world barely protested when it occured. When the Israeli public found out about the massacre and heard the other version of the story, 300,000 protesters demanded Israeli's prime minister's resignation.

Oooops, i mixed up the Shabra and Shatilla massacre with the Qana massacre,

Ok, according to sources, a Christain Lebanese Milita entered the camps with approval of Ariel Sharon and slaughtered thousands of Palestinians, after they were done, Israeli troops entered the camp and finished some of the survivors, this makes your above claim that they entered to arrest PLO Militants extremely false, since the Christain Lebanese Milita did this to revenge their wars with the PLO,

The second massacre in Lebanon by Israel was in the Qana camp, they killed hundreds of Lebanese people, you dont belive me? Look for an article by " Robert Fisk " on this massacre.

The excuse of going into camps to arrest PLO Militants or Hamas Militants for every masscre/attack done on the Palestinians/Lebanese is getting old and we wont take that as an excuse.

Do you know about the Deir Yassin terrorist attacks?


You'd have understood, if you lived there.

Im Palestinian and even though i dont live in Palestine i feel the pain and anger that they get.


How can you compare Israel to Nazis and Islamic Extremists?? Give me 1 sane reason to that comparison.

Both are terrorists.

"Ok, according to sources, a Christain Lebanese Milita entered the camps with approval of Ariel Sharon and slaughtered thousands of Palestinians, after they were done, Israeli troops entered the camp and finished some of the survivors, this makes your above claim that they entered to arrest PLO Militants extremely false, since the Christain Lebanese Milita did this to revenge their wars with the PLO"

According to what "sources"?
According to Israeli sources, the militia killed 700. There were not hundreds. According to Palestinian sources, a few thousand were missing.

Israeli troops finishing some survivors is another unproved version of the Palestinians, yet I can't say that it didn't happen.

I can say one thing for sure, I know Israeli soldiers and Israeli citizens, they don't just go and take innocent lives, even if it's a direct order.

As for the Qana massacre, I'm afraid you have too much grief and hatred to understand that it was an unintended tragedy rather than atrocity and that Hezbollah was the primary cause for the Qana incident.

The event began as Hezbollah militants fired several rockets some 350 meters from Qana, to Israeli territory. Mortar shells landed some 40 meters close to an Israeli-army patrol which called for assistance. Israeli army located the source of fire and launched a counter-attack and fired 38 shells towards the Hezbollah target (note that they used shells whose impact is concentrated on the target) Unfortunately, some shells have missed the targets and hit the UN compound which was located 200 meters from the first target and 350 meters from the 2nd.

For more details of how it happened and what caused the shells to miss the target, visit here:
http://home.no.net/norplt/unreport.html

As for Deir-Yassin - the same story: There's a Palestinian version and Israeli version.

Palestinian version claims there was a massacre. By noon, 50 men and 50 women and children were brutally murdered. In total 254 were killed. Bir Zeit University later found that less than 120 were actually killed.

Israeli version claims there were more than 100 men trained and equipped with rifles and Bren guns. They sent a force of 70 fighters and an armored car with a loudspeaker to tell the villagers that the village was surrounded and that they can leave through a path for Ein Karem or surrender. After a fierce fighting in which every house became an armed fortress, it was discovered that hundreds of villagers retreated to Ein Karem, the rest surrendered and were taken prisoners (mostly women and children) which were loaded into trucks and were taken to eastern Jerusalem where they were handed to their Arab brethren. Israeli version also claims that the fighters were given strict orders not to harm the elderly, women and children

There are some articles about Arab massacres of Jewish civilians and perhaps there are Arab versions of these massacres explaining the reason for what happened.

It only makes me wonder how we can learn from history if it's so unaccurate, bilateral and contradicting...

By the way, it's nice to know that you're a Palestinian. It kind of explains your point of view and your anger, but I admire your tolerance.

"Both are terrorists"
I'd ignore that comment...

You are correct, Luke.

My nickname was more rellevant a year ago, now I use it only to identify myself as the one who posted on this board in the first half of 2003 and maybe be recognized by some.

I didn't visit Inreview for over half a year.

You are correct in your judgment and in your statement that Israel can do much more to make peace than Palestinians. It seems that Israel improves its methods of treating Palestinians and find efficient ways to step forward towards peace: A new plan has been promoted which teaches the soldiers a new behavior code towards Palestinians in checkposts. The intended withdrawal from the Gaza strip. The changes made in the fence - so that in some parts, Palestinian lands won't be on the other side of the fence. The plans of gradually removing checkposts and settlements in the west bank are parallel to the Gaza strip withdrawal.

These are clear steps towards peace, there are no tricks. So
perhaps it's time to forgive and open a new page, to cease hatred, to give it hope. If Palestinians start to believe that it's just another trick of Sharon's and will resume attacks, it will all get back to its previous state.

Yeah, it is not so simple. The withdrawal is problematic as intelligence tells that Hamas plans to build an army and smuggle weapons from Egypt and Egypt refuses to take control over the Gaza strip. It is not simple as violence still persists both in Gaza strip and the West Bank by both sides. It is not simple due to the construction of the fence on Palestinian lands. But despite all that, peace can be achieved through endless efforts by both sides.

Building an army by Hamas threatens and concerns Israel. Hamas says it may stop temporarily its attacks. Will Hamas really build an army? Will this army be created to fight a war against Israel or to resist Israeli army's raids? Will Israel take the risk?

I hope that when Israel withdraws from Gaza strip, Palestinians will be thankful and will put a full stop to any activity against Israel from the Gaza strip. If that happens, in no time Israel will withdraw from the west bank as well. All it takes is understanding of the opponent's causes.

TWBR, you are right, although when you spoke of all the terrorism against the US you never included The Lavon Affair and Jonathan Pollard and the spy ring.