The Iraqi war, a unique perspective from an Iraqi - Asantana

Iraq Forum

The war in Iraq has been a deeply dividing issue both here in America and in the world abroad. Certainly we all have our own opinions and that's not such a bad thing, but in reading posts from Asantana and Iraqi, I've gained even better perspectives on Iraq, the war, and it's people.

Asantana shares great wisdom with us in my opinion and I think in the many posts, both nonsense and necessary, she/he brings a fresh perspective to Inreview's Iraq forum.

Please come in with an open mind. Let's stick to the subject at hand as best we can. We may not all agree with Asantana, but let's be adult enough to share with mature responses without the insults and name calling.

Again, I believe I can speak for all when I say welcome to Inreview. Please share your knowledge and unique perspectives with us here so we may be enlightened.

Again I say thank you and welcome.

I would like to say first that Asantana as I stated in another forum that I don't agree with Bush's actions concerning Iraq. I don't think we and the world were told the truth, but as you've pointed out in another thread, that's beside the point now, the USA is inside of Iraq and you want to focus on what will happen next.

I must say this though. I believe Iraq was high on the list for many reasons, one being their prime resource of oil. This has been disputed among us for almost a year now, and despite all evidence I believe that pointed to this, there are some that still disagree to say the least. You made a statement in the Iraqis killing Iraqis forum. As you stated also that Iraqis have no problem with Americans themselves but the administration we have is another story.

I will paraphrase. The US came into Iraq and deposed Saddam for many reasons they've stated. Yet many of you are not basking in the sunshine of your "new freedom". With the US being your liberators, you pointed out how they did little or nothing when the looting took place, and has done little to protect areas which they should have protected. One thing is quite clear from reading your post. They've protected the oil refinaries with diligence, and to this day appears as if they are in control of the oil there.

To me this says a lot concerning our true agendas there, none of which we mentioned publicly yet. We are deligent in protecting that oil and the pipeline but not as diligent in protecting its citizens.

Now I am as loyal as any other American when it comes to my country, but I believe this administration is wrong.

Thank you Oneforpeace, I will try as much as I can to shed some light on my country iraq and how the people feels

hi,
I would like to start first with this it could have been prevented, if it was, then the people would think differently, I am trying to locate a photo showing how the American soldiers were protecting the ministry of Oil Building (I need some time), Why they couldn’t do the same for other buildings?? Why the American Army had a secured plan to protect the oil industry in Iraq, and why they didn’t have a plan to force order on the streets of Baghdad and other cities went they enterd the capitol?? the setuation was very serious, and the neglegace (at that Time) lead to lots of unstability. I am sure that the Planners had a lot to think about how do we go in, but they felt short on what shall we do after we go in?? Their plan wasn’t there or at least it was not good enough

Ugh... BBC... who'd a thunk it.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to try to discredit the story. I just don't have a lot of respect for the BBC.

welcome to INReview, asantana.

some of the artifacts and historical documents have been recovered: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...7¬Found=true

the oil was protected because during the 1991 war, iraqi soldiers set fire to them. the museum wasn't looted by iraqi soldiers. i'm not trying to trivialize the losses from the museum, i'm just trying to make the point that the museum wasn't a strategic or tactical location. so it wasn't a top priority. i know it's small consolation, but at least it was still standing after all the heavy bombing.

Lark 2000 Hi
thank you for your post, are you trying to say that only oil was top priority, nothing else matters, that is why people in Iraq believe that the Americans came after OIL, nothing else matters. Keep in mind that not all can read behind the lines, they understand what they see and hear; base on that they make their judgment. Such people can be manipulated by any one who hate America, and that is the root of the problem.
The museum is not the problem; it was part of the overall problems I used it as an example
regards

have a look at this and this and this
thank you for your time

That is exactly the point I believe Asantana is making Larke. That museum had priceless unreplacable artifacts that were significant to Iraqi history. That's equivalant to someone breaking into Independance Hall in Philadelphia and destroying the Liberty Bell or the original document the Constitution was written on among other things.

In my opinion there is no excuse for allowing the looting of that museum. It showed our priorities in my opinion. To declare this war isn't about oil, then protect the oil buildings with intensity sends a message to anyone looking at our actions.

To this day we are still involved heavily with that building (ministry of oil) while security elsewhere seem to be lacking.

Imagine if this was your country. Can you see why you would get the impression that it was about oil?

Point taken. It's unfortunate that those things happen. OIL = Money. Let's face it. The oil in Iraq is good for the Iraqi people and necessary for their economy. I would just hope the Iraqis someday see the purpose of the chaos, and forgive us for prioritizing the oil ahead of the museum.

as i mentioned earlier that the musium is only part of the problems ,it is not the only problem

Asantana, do you think civil war will erupt in Iraq? There are so many things factored into this Iraqi invasion that Bush and company never gave thought to. I believe that American troops will be in your country for years and if civil war break out, they will be forced into some impossible positions and cannot remain neutral.

Iraq has Arabs, Kurds, and Turcoman mainly Muslims but still there are some Christians, and Assyrians are Christians yet there are other races and religons also (Minority)
Now, Muslims are basically shiaats and sunny, Christians are Orthodox and protestants (mind my spelling) languages are Arabic, Kurd, Assyrian, turk and others . i am just trying to explain the diversity in the structure, most of above were oppressed by the ba’ath party and their leader, now since they have been over thrown , every one started to think freely and this will (if not controlled) lead to arguments which if not contained will turn into civil war. Some non Iraqis are (at the moment) trying to ignite this TNT barrel, if they succeed (god forbids) Iraq will be a battle field for all (you and me included).

i quote from the URL provided above,

i find the statment above very funny, so let us open the banks to all since we all put money there, so it belong to us all , never mind i put a dollar and you put a cent , it belong to us all

I just came a photo of one Saudi who was killed in a car accident after he and few others were fleeing the area after attacking Americans and Iraqi police west of Iraq close to Fallouja city, the photo is attached, I can provide the URL but it will be in Arabic, so I don’t feel it is necessary unless you ask for it

I find it ironic and hypocritical that we are conducting investigations into the 9/11 attacks and the intelligence behind Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq, with the apparent aim of indicting the Bush Administration for, on one hand, failing to do something to prevent 9/11 and, on the other, acting against a perceived threat of WMD in Iraq. Americans can't have it both ways. Either we must be willing to undertake pre-emptive actions against governments and groups that are known to be inimical to our nation and might carry out acts of terrorism against us, or we must be willing to accept civilian casualties because we are unwilling to act against terrorists.

http://www.komo1000news.com/audio/k...heck_031003.mp3

I find it ironic and hypocritical that we are conducting investigations into the 9/11 attacks and the intelligence behind Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq, with the apparent aim of indicting the Bush Administration for, on one hand, failing to do something to prevent 9/11 and, on the other, acting against a perceived threat of WMD in Iraq. Americans can't have it both ways. Either we must be willing to undertake pre-emptive actions against governments and groups that are known to be inimical to our nation and might carry out acts of terrorism against us, or we must be willing to accept civilian casualties because we are unwilling to act against terrorists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Con...rintable.jhtml;$sessionid$GVM4CESNI5PP1QFIQMGSFF4AVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2004/03/07/wirq07.xml&site=5

Iraqi secret policeman 'was paid by al-Qa'eda to bomb civilians'
By Inigo Gilmore in Najaf

(Filed: 07/03/2004)


A former Iraqi intelligence officer captured by police after last week's bombings in Baghdad and Karbala has revealed that he was paid by al-Qa'eda to carry out attacks on civilians.

Mohammed Hanoun Hamoud al-Mozani was detained with two associates on Wednesday, a day after almost 200 people were killed in simultaneous explosions at shrines packed with Shias.

After interrogating al-Mozani for 24 hours, Najaf police revealed that he had given important information on the network behind the attacks in Iraq.

"We think that this is a big breakthrough," said Major Mohammed Dayekh of the Najaf police. "Al-Mozani admitted that he was part of a terrorist cell that answered to a middle-man who works for al-Qa'eda and he gave us the names of the four other men in the cell, two from Baghdad and two from Najaf."

Al-Mozani and his associates were wearing police uniforms when they were seen in Najaf. After a car chase, the three men were caught and taken to the city's police headquarters. On Thursday they were handed over to American troops.

A spokesman for the American military in Baghdad refused to comment on the arrests. The Najaf police team, however, gave a detailed account of how al-Mozani was recruited by an al-Qa'eda envoy while working at his electrical appliance shop in Baghdad.

The middle-man, who went by the name of Abu Utthman, promised him tens of thousands of dollars for each successful mission. He allegedly told al-Mozani that he was a deputy of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist whom the coalition blames for most of the attacks in Iraq.

"Al-Mozani said they were offered between $20,000 (£10,900) and $30,000 (£16,400) to organise terrorist attacks and that they would get bonus money if the attacks led to the death of a large number of people," Major Dayekh said. "He said that he was tempted to work with them because it was such an easy way to make money and that he agreed to do it because he needed the money."

Abu Utthman allegedly told al-Mozani that he operated from the Abu Filas neighbourhood in Khaldiya, 60 miles west of Baghdad. Khaldiya has been a hotbed of resistance to coalition forces and scores of American soldiers have been killed and injured there.

The two men captured with al-Mozani have not been named but police say that they are convicted murderers and robbers released from an Iraqi jail six months before Saddam's overthrow.

Coalition security chiefs and their Iraqi allies are under increased pressure to show that they can confront the threat to Iraq's security from extremist groups. The American military has put a $10 million bounty on al-Zarqawi, believed to be the mastermind behind the sychronised suicide bombings.

Shi'ite leaders have been critical of the coalition forces's failure to secure Iraq's borders, arguing that this has allowed foreign fighters to infiltrate the country.

Shi'ite leaders refused to sign an interim constitution last week after Iraq's senior Shi'ite cleric rejected portions of the charter, casting a shadow over American plans to hand over sovereignty to Iraq on June 30.

At funerals for the victims of last week's attack, thousands of mourners chanted anti-American slogans: "No, no, Americans. No, no Israel. No, no, terrorists." A small group took a sheet painted to look like an American flag and set it on fire.

asantana,

According to a CNN report, "a member of the Iraqi Governing Council said that Iraq's interim constitution will be signed without changes on Monday."

Exactly the way it appears asantana. What I find incredible is that here we have someone from Iraq telling us that the US protected the ministry of oil building with diligence and didn't protect Iraq's museum or any thing else for that matter, and they still say 'it's not about oil". That is simply denial in its purest form.

Right now the plan for Iraq is evolving daily according to events that happen there. There was no plan because I believe our leaders thought that Iraqis would welcome us with such open arms for their "new freedoms". Although they were told this could happen, it appears they were absolutely unprepared.

And we have those that "don't care if WMD were found" or not. Unfortunately we have many here that don't. They believe the end justifies the means.....unless it affected them of course. Then we have them say "this isn't about oil it's about terrorism". Yet we're over there heavily fortifying the ministry of oil building while the rest of Iraq goes to hell in a basket.

Asantana, I don't think we'll ever have those that will except not just your word, but what their own eyes are telling them. This is sad, but their right none the less.

With the confusion and carnage there now in Iraq, I believe you guys just traded one hell for the next.

In a war, preotecting a museum makes about as much sense as protecting a warehouse, or dog house for that matter. Sure, it might have sentimental meaning, but it's not a priority. I think it's odd that I would have to point that out.

Thats like a bomb hitting a dog house and someone saying, "See, I told you this was aout OIL."

This museum story isn't an issue.

We're protecting the oil because it = money. Iraqi money = Iraqi wealth.

Beside the museum, there was
1. Ministry of trade, Justus, treasury, health, industry, defense, home affairs, foreign affairs, lower education, higher education, agriculture, irrigation , religion and Islamic affairs, housing, transport,….etc
2. hospitals
3. schools
4. universities
5. factories
6. army camps
7. power plants
8. water treatment plants
9. sewer treatment plants
10. communications telephone exchanges
11. houses of Justas
12. food warehouses
13. Nuclear laboratories (in Twetha) got looted as well
the list can go on and on, it is not just a priceless museum and ministry of oil we are talking about, I keep saying the museum is part of the problem, not all the problem. All the above was not a priority!! Nothing is priority just oil!!

So asantana, do you really believe 300,000 soldiers were enough to fight, protect all of what you listed, secure borders, search for WMDs, search for conventional weapon caches, secure oil fields - number one target, etc.?

sayzak, your above post is classic—too bad I can't nominate it!

sayzak: you never miss a beat!

I especially liked "6. the army camps." I hadn't even noticed that one…

For the first time in awhile I am speechless. Good night…

good night my friend, sweet dreams

good night my friend, sweet dreams

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Calling it a new beginning for Iraq, Iraqi Governing Council members Monday signed an interim constitution, laying the groundwork for future elections, a permanent constitution and eventually a return to self-rule.

"Here we are today standing in a historical moment to lay the strong foundation for rebuilding a new Iraq," said governing council President Mohammed Bahrululum. "A new, free, democratic Iraq that protects the dignity of the human being and protects human rights."

As governing council members gathered, an explosion was heard across Iraq's capital city, but was not apparent at the conference center where the ceremony took place.

According to Iraqi police, the rocket hit a house near the police patrol station in Karada in central Baghdad, wounding four people, including two children and a police officer.

The latest attack followed a barrage of at least seven small rockets that damaged a hotel Sunday evening in central Baghdad.

The newly approved 25-page interim constitution defines a new Iraq as being "federal, democratic and pluralist," according to an advance copy secured by CNN's Jane Arraf.

The ceremony was delayed by nearly a week because of deadly violence and disagreement among Shiite and Kurdish council members.

The missiles in Sunday's attack were fired toward the so-called Green Zone from the bed of a Toyota SUV parked about 400 yards (400 meters) north of the Al-Rashid Hotel, the official said.

A civilian security employee was slightly wounded but later returned to duty, the official said.

The Green Zone includes the Coalition Provisional Authority's headquarters in the presidential palace, which is across the street from the conference center where the signing ceremony was scheduled to take place.

Word of Sunday's attack came shortly after a spokesman for a member of the Iraqi Governing Council said Iraq's interim constitution would be signed without changes Monday.

"There were different opinions among us, but we were able to come to an understanding," said Sayed Mohammed Hussein Bahrululum, son of the council president. "We will continue with the signing of the interim constitution without making any changes in it".

On Friday, Shiite council members backed out of the ceremony after the nation's top Shiite cleric objected to a provision that would effectively give three Kurdish provinces veto power over approval of a permanent constitution.

"They reached a positive and clear understanding by the religious authorities for the development of the constitution and they plan to continue with the signing of the interim constitution on Monday," said Ali al-Shabout, spokesman for council member Muwafaq al-Rubaie.

The clause at issue says that if two-thirds of the voters in any three provinces reject the permanent constitution, which is to be drawn up in coming months, it would not go into effect until it is revised.

The three Kurdish provinces want more autonomy than the majority Shiites are likely to approve.

Shabout said the meetings were attended by clerics Mohammed Ishak Sayed, Mohammed Said Al-Hakim and Grand Ayatollah Sayed Ali al-Sistani.

In addition to Rubaie and Bahrululum, council members who attended the meetings were Ahmed Chalabi, Adel Abdul Mehdi, who is a spokesman for Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, and a spokesman for Ibrahim al-Jaafari.

The signing ceremony was originally to take place Wednesday but was delayed for three days during a mourning period for victims of suicide bombings in Baghdad and Karbala.

The council gathered for a pomp-filled ceremony Friday afternoon to sign the historic transitional constitution, but the disagreements delayed the event and the council adjourned eight hours later.

The document will be the law of the land while efforts are made to adopt a permanent constitution and to directly elect Iraqi leaders -- a period Dan Senor, Coalition Provisional Authority_spokesman, said would begin July 1, when sovereignty is set to be transferred to Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast...main/index.html

We're protecting the oil because it = money. Iraqi money = Iraqi wealth.
Iraqi wealth=American prosperty, we help each other

American prosperity? Wait... I thought this was about terrorism or freeing the Iraqi people?

I guess the Iraqis should be grateful we're helping them with all that oil and stuff. Just another example of our selfless acts for the freedoms of the oppressed Iraqis.

Man aren't we so benevolent?

Yup, I just can't wait till we liberate the N. Koreans!!!

Man this is gonna be fun to watch huh gang?

No, we'd only attack N. Korea for oil, isn't that right?

That's exactly my point Sayzak. See you are capable of seeing beyond the Bush administration ficticious version of events.

Wow, something we all agree on.

Opps that’s the communism hell , no Gas, no oil, no char coal, nothing….. Every one should move to the capitalism hell, oil is available, thanks to America; it controls all the oil in the Middle East.

Finally we start to understand each other

But Asantanta, didn't you hear? We're guarding your oil for you guys not us. Aren't we so benevolent? So what if a few thousand Iraqis die in the process, at least we, I mean you will have your oil.

Remember oil = money, money = wealth, and that's wealth for the Iraqis. To hell with your museums and rare artifacts. Let's protect your oil instead. After all, in the end we all can make some money.

http://www.inreview.com/showthread....&threadid=17490

The all ********, and no evidence approach

U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994

Curley good observation.

That's how bad are people influenced with liberal propaganda. It always sounds good, turns out to suck in the end....

and did u understand me wise man??? i dont think so, the jock is more than what u can think off

I am not living in america, nor in Iraq so it dose not apply to me.

Malaysia

Curley is actually quite funny. I think he's in the wrong business. Maybe he should be a comedian. God knows I can't take him serious.