Does President Bush care about the Iraqi people? |
| Posted by: Edward Teach | | A lot are blasting President Bush for targeting civilians yet the U.S. Military continues to state that they are not targeting civilians. The military say that the bombs and missiles being used are “Smart Weapons” guided by GPS satellites. In the 1991 Gulf War it is said that 10% of the weapons used were “Smart” as opposed to this war where 90% of the weapons are “Smart”.
In the 1991 Gulf War one of the first actions was to knock out the electricity and other utilities. This war the lights are still on water is still flowing in Baghdad.
In 1991 the military conducted a massive bombing campaign before committing ground forces. http://www.indepthinfo.com/iraq/airwar.shtml
This war ground forces are moving in conjunction with the bombing campaign. In the 1991 Gulf war ground forces only needed to oust the Iraqi military from Kuwait. They didn’t get anywhere near Baghdad.
http://www.indepthinfo.com/iraq/groundwar.shtml
The Iraqi authorities told United Nations representatives who visited the country in March 1991 that about 9,000 homes -- housing some 72,000 people -- had been destroyed or badly damaged during the air war. Some 2,500 of the buildings were in Baghdad and another 1,900 in Basra. However, one member of a U.S. delegation who visited Baghdad for four days after the war did not find physical evidence in the city to support the Iraqi government figures. After traveling around Baghdad, she concluded that the Iraqi figures were "not credible." These figures have not been verified to this day.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1991/gulfwar/CHAP5.htm
So far Iraq has said that about 500 civilians have lost their lives. However a University of New Hampshire professor who counts civilian war deaths said that as of the 27th counts more than 220 civilian deaths. This is far under the amount claimed by Iraq. He counts all civilian deaths including if they were the result of their own weapons.
http://www.nhpr.org/content/fullmonty_view.php/4614/
It is 12 days into the war and food and water are entering Iraq from the Sir Galahad at the port of Um Qasar. http://www.terradaily.com/2003/0303...6.j3n7bpx0.html
I am not going to go into the atrocities committed by Saddam’s regime because it has been well documented here and elsewhere. Except to say that it is said that he and his regime is responsible for the deaths of millions of his own people including 5000 who were gassed in Halabja.
http://www.fair.org/extra/0209/iraq-gas.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/05/bowden.htm | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: NothingSacred | | Hell no! If they didn't have oil Bonehead Bush wouldn't be able to find it on the map! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: nowar | | I suppose that Ron is the only one which voted : yes 
I hope it's true .....
But my opnion is: no
and if it's NO, the "heaven" they bring to Iraqi people will become a hell, and not only in Iraq .....
And as I said, now it's too late, whatever happen in Iraq .... it will be hell in some west countries .... | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Edward Teach | | This poll isn't about whether or not you like President Bush. It is about whether you think Bush cares about the Iraqi citizens. Everyone has their own general opinions about President Bush and many think he is a brilliant man. Obviously others don't like him. At least in America you can express your dislikes about the President without fearing reprisal or death. And one thing about our system of Government is if you don't like him you can vote for someone else next time. In this case 2004 we could have someone that has much different ideas.
George W. Bush is a religious man who I believes cares about the citizens of Iraq and the rest of the world.
Do you think that the Iraqi's will have a better life once we leave? I think so. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: T.L.B. | | I don't know whether Bush truely cares for the Iraqi people or not. I know that I do and I know that many of the people in this forum, who back this war, do. As long as their freedom is achieved, I don't think that it really matters. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: nowar | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Ron Ackerman
This poll isn't about whether or not you like President Bush. It is about whether you think Bush cares about the Iraqi citizens. Everyone has their own general opinions about President Bush and many think he is a brilliant man. Obviously others don't like him. At least in America you can express your dislikes about the President without fearing reprisal or death. And one thing about our system of Government is if you don't like him you can vote for someone else next time. In this case 2004 we could have someone that has much different ideas.
George W. Bush is a religious man who I believes cares about the citizens of Iraq and the rest of the world.
Do you think that the Iraqi's will have a better life once we leave? I think so. |
Remember that U.S. gov helped Saddam to stay president of Iraq ....
Bush, many think ..... that he is a stupid puppet
2004, I hope, everybody hope - when I say everybody it's mainly the world minus U.S. of A, even if there are a lot in U.S. of A : -
George W. Bush is a religious man which started a religious war - he is so stupid by using the name of God in each speech about that war, maybe it's a way to have some U.S. citizen on his side but having the muslim world against you it's the brightest idea he had - , and vengeance ....
Iraqi's will have a better life, I hope for them but yours and the troops one will be a nightmare for a long time
Do you know how much ethnics there are in Iraq ?
Check what is going on in Afghanistan ....... and you will understand that it's not as easy as you think and as they tought about freeing Afghani from Taliban -which are comming back, slowly, but surely -
what type of freedom with a puppets gov managed by U.S. including old Saddam gov general, minister whom was active in the killing of Kurds and Iraqi ?
with ex-minister from Saddam gov which already sold the exploitation of oil fields to U.S. oil companies - on the 7 biggest ones, 5 are held by .... U.S. gov - ???
Do you really think that it's about freeing Iraqi people ?
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| Posted by: Edward Teach | | An anti war person asked me to put the poll here so I thought about it and put it up. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: NothingSacred | | Iraqis could have a worse life now, like most Russians have a worse life since the break-up of the USSR. Sure, they won't have Saddam, but now they have a fairly modern, secular country, who knows? After the war it might degenerate into a splintered Afghanistan type country. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Edward Teach | | This is your chance... since I didn't so such a hot job of impartiality go for it. Present some impartial facts on the subject.
I tried to show the difference between the first Gulf war and this Gulf war. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Bebert | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by NothingSacred
Iraqis could have a worse life now, like most Russians have a worse life since the break-up of the USSR. Sure, they won't have Saddam, but now they have a fairly modern, secular country, who knows? After the war it might degenerate into a splintered Afghanistan type country. |
hmmm, lets guess...
- Kurdish PKK (trotskist) fighting against Turk army on the north,
- Iran supported Chiites on the south,
- Sunites asking help from "democratic" Saudi Araby...
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| Posted by: Enigma | | I'm pretty certain he cares. I don't think he's a totally heartless bastard, whatever some people would like to make him out as. Just how much he cares though is another matter. I certanly don't see him applying some kind of global philosophy to helping innocent people in distress.
I think any real judgement calls on his character would require some kind of personal knowledge of the man himself (ie, talking to him in person at length), or at least a wider base of examples of his actions. An answer without that really just somes down to whether or not you like the guy. In the end however, the only one who truly knows the answer to this question is Bush himself. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Bebert | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Ron Ackerman
This is your chance... since I didn't so such a hot job of impartiality go for it. Present some impartial facts on the subject.
I tried to show the difference between the first Gulf war and this Gulf war. |
Ok, er..... let me think .......
May be you could have add :
- even in 2003, "smart bombs" kill civilians
- this war kills more Iraqi CIVILIANS than US SOLDIERS
- pdt Bush seems to care more about Iraqis than people linving in the other 120 despotic countries (where there is no oil).
- he really cares: he has already nominated the US companies that will share the market of the reconstruction of the country he just destroyed
- he has no serious idea on how and who will lead their new Iraq
-... and more...(you can find by yourself)
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| Posted by: RamboX | | This whole line of garbage about civilian lives lost is just that... garbage.
Saddam Hussein has been exploiting his own people in this war to make a play on the surrounding Arab nations and the liberals abroad.
The anti-coalitioners suck it up, of course, for all its worth to enable them to further whine and moan.... as if they had a genuine concern for Iraqi civilians that exceeds everyone elses. It's called bologna... and these anti-coalitioners don't fool me in the least. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Enigma | |
| quote: |
| - even in 2003, "smart bombs" kill civilians |
Of course they do. A smart bomb is only as smart as the person controlling it, and only as reliable as the factories that make the parts, and the technicians who maintain them. Even when the missle hits the intended target, you can't guarantee that between the time the missle was fired and the time it hits, farmer joe isn't going to walk down the road beside the building your about to level. IMO though the cost of this war will be far less than the cost of inaction would be a few years down the track however.
| quote: |
| - this war kills more Iraqi CIVILIANS than US SOLDIERS |
When you consider the relative numbers of each group, and the type of attacks that have been taking place, that is not surprising at this stage in the campaign. Saddam has killed, tortured, and starved far more of his own people than will be killed in this campaign though, and he would have continued to do so far into the future.
| quote: |
| - pdt Bush seems to care more about Iraqis than people linving in the other 120 despotic countries (where there is no oil). |
I don't agree that oil is the motivation here, but I agree with the point. US foreign policy is far from even handed. While I personally agree with action being taken against Saddam in this instance, I think the US needs to play a more active role in preventing situations like this from arising. In general, the US is willing to let pretty much anything "slide", as long as it doesn't involve them. I would have liked to see some kind of decisive action being taken on the issue of Zimbabwe, but nothing has really been done. I think it's instances like that where the US let themselves down. They need to show that they stand for something, but all that they have shown time and time again is they stand for themselves and thier own interests. Depending on how this plays out, the US government might have a chance to begin changing that view some people have of it.
| quote: |
| - he really cares: he has already nominated the US companies that will share the market of the reconstruction of the country he just destroyed |
| quote: |
- he has no serious idea on how and who will lead their new Iraq
-... and more...(you can find by yourself) |
You have just criticised the US for planning the details of the post-war economical and political structure in Iraq while the war is still going on, then in the next point criticised the US for not doing enough planning of the exact same thing. This argument is a double edged sword that I have seen swung both ways too many times to count. On the one hand, if the US announces plans like this one, they are jumped on by people saying how they are arragning the situation to incur a profit, be it oil or investment or whatever. On the other hand, if they say nothing, people accuse them of tearing through a country, then not doing any planning to get it back on its feet afterwards.
The fact is that most of the major companies in the world are US based, so of course there is going to be significant investment from there. The details have far from been finalised yet though. Right now it's just a few ideas and suggestions being thrown around (unless I am mistaken, which I could be).
As for who will run Iraq after the war is over, I'm hoping the US will do the smart thing and turn over control to the UN. Whenther they will or not however, we will just have to wait and see.
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