A picture is worth a thousand words...

Israel & Palestine Forum

These photos are not from Al Jazeera, they're from Reuters...

Do you have fond memories of coming home from school?

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T145313Z_01_JER07D_RTRIDSP_2_MIDEAST.jpg
This is what going to and from school is like for these Palestinian kids every day...

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T230921Z_01_GAZ07DR_RTRIDSP_2_MIDEAST.jpg
An Israeli soldier calmly explaining to some Pakistani kids why they couldn't cross into Jerusalem. They were detained for a few hours and then released. (Personally, it appears the soldier is the one who should have been detained...)

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T144718Z_01_JER05D_RTRIDSP_2_MIDEAST.jpg
"Not in my back yard" is a popular cry in the US. How about in your front yard?

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T144043Z_01_JER04D_RTRIDSP_2_MIDEAST.jpg
What possible reason could this small child have for growing up hating Israel? I mean, that's just a "privacy fence," right, just like we see all over the US...

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T144828Z_01_JER06D_RTRIDSP_2_MIDEAST.jpg
Well, yes, perhaps the concrete is a little harsh. But there are also plenty of stretches of "scenery-friendly" barriers.

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T140026Z_01_GAZ06D_RTRIDSP_2_MIDEAST.jpg
This man used to live here. You can see the wall in the background which apparently really needs to go right through his home.

I suppose it could be worse.

http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2004-02-17T180720Z_01_MAD08D_RTRIDSP_2_SPAIN-STRIKE-VIOLENCE.jpg
(OK, this isn't in Israel, it's in Spain, but it sure looks pretty intimidating...)

Luke, you are a very good man, i hope God rewards you for your understanding of the Palestinian suffering. and for you too AntiZionist

Luke can u tell me about that picture u got there, the one in spain?

http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/childchpntS.gif

That reminds me of this scene in the US...

http://www.vkblaw.com/elian/elian13.5.jpg

if my neighbor kept sending his kids over to my house to blow themselves up on my front porch to kill my wife and kids, i might be inclined to put up a big-a** 'privacy fence' (aka big wall).

But why did your neighbor do it? For a reason i bet, you probalby killed his family, if it was for no reason then that doesnt represent the Palestinians, and i belive that there has never been a kid suicide bomber.......people like you always bring up the suicide bombings, but never care what leads it to happen and never care why did it happen. Ofcorse there is no reason for it to happen, but when it comes to groups like Hamas, it happens because of a death of a Palestinian.

http://www.honestreporting.com/arti...Distortions.asp

Only 3% of the wall is concrete, the other 97% is chain-linked.

The poor Palestinians! They have no hope but to blow themselves up!

And the fact still remains. 3% of the wall, is what the Media portrays as 100% of the wall.

Hell, your only argument is that the website is 'biased' because its offering free trips to Israel. The fact still remains.

This whole forum isn't worth my empathy and compassion.

What Media portrays 100%?

Fabulous pictures, exposing Israel and its military at its sadistic best.

Luke90, could you please give me the link for these pictures??

Thanks.

Here is the Reuters Photo Gallery/News

Those images should be there for a couple more days - I believe they roll them off as new images are added, and those photos were several pages prior to the last one.

Good to see that people care.

Golda Meir: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn’t exist."

Isn't that statement true?

As an outsider who couldn't care less about their situation,it seems that every time there is a peace agreement of sorts..it is the Palestinians who screw it up by killing innocent people. That's what I see. The uncivilized mentality of these people leaves me to think there will never be an end. What percentage of ALL wars ever fought are shadowed by the "peaceful religion of Islam"? Somehow I would bet that it is 9 out of 10. Probably responsible for every dissident in the world right now is that loving religion of Islam. How nice would it be if Mohamed decided to stay a merchant and not write a book about his beliefs?

After reading this thread and subsequent postings, I've come to the conclusion that it's impossible to get any unbiased pictures on this website.

I can post just as many pictures showing Israel and the pains they endure, but for what? How biased is it to show these pictures without showing the reasons they are there? The suicide bombings caused the fence in the first place, now you complain about it being there? You simply want the fence to go away and leave all sorts of access to do this?

[img]http://www.e-bski.org/Israel/pictur...ts%20Chest2.JPG[/img]

[img] http://www.johnworldpeace.org/e030306e.jpg[/img]

[img] http://www.jewishworldreview.com/im...rorism/bus3.jpg[/img]

[img] http://www.jewishworldreview.com/im...rorism/bus2.jpg[/img]

[img] http://www.jewishworldreview.com/im...rorism/bus1.jpg[/img]


And after all the carnage you get this in the streets of Palestinian lands.

[img] http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/imag...afp-203body.jpg[/img]

Let’s not pretend here people. There is a problem on both ends. The wall went up to help prevent things like this. To somehow insinuated that this wall is responsible for suicide bombings is about as ridiculous as Israel claiming they can only target Hamas leaders in a crowded food market.

I do not blame Israel for building this fence or the wall, though I do blame them for running it through Palestinian land.

You can’t have it both ways. If you claim you have no other choice but to blow up innocent people on buses, then you have no choice but to deal with the consequences that come along with this behavior. Nothing good will ever come out of suicide bombings and will only prolong Palestinian suffering.

Okay, fair points, although I am a bit skeptical that you consider yourself "neutral." Constantly, I see you defend Israel.

Tell me, how in the hell does, Islam tell us the Muslims to kill you people?

Dont give me that Osama Bin Laden crap, ok?
Islam doesnt support terrorism, and just because they are Muslims doesnt mean that Islam supports their actions,
Like Jesus said, " Please God, Forgive them, They dont know"

Do you deny that the Quaran instucts its followers to kill nonbelievers, Christians, Jews, infidels? If you die in this act you will reach mortyrdom and live with Virgins and wine? Do you actually deny this?

That is total crap, The Quran teaches us to Love our enemies like the Bible, you hear all of that crap from Islamic Extrimists, theres a True Muslim and a Fake Muslim, Fake Muslims teach you to kill your enemies and all that crap you said, Palestinians dont do suicide bombing because they will go to heaven and get the 72 virgins, thats not the reason, in fact, im not even sure if Suicide Bombers are going to heaven.
You really have to ask True Muslims or read some good Muslim links before you make those idiotic accusations, this gets really annoying!

How many examples do you want??
Especially suicide bombers go to "heaven".

Stand by, because if I annoyed you before........



Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors”. 2:190

“And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse
than slaughter” 2:191

“And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility
except to those who practise oppression”. 2:193

“Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad
for you. But Allah knows, and you know not” 2:216

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets
victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74

“Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

"Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home "4:95

"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah
and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly" 8:60

"O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they
will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding" 8:65

"Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers" 9:14

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge
the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" 9:29

"Say: can you expect for us (and fate) other than one of two glorious things (martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that Allah will send
his punishment (for not believing in Allah) from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you" 9:52

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for
them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is
Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” 9:5

As we see clearly in this verse (which is commonly called the verse of the sword) there is only one way out for pagans (or infidels) to be spared from
being slain. They should repent, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, i.e. become Muslims. As for people of the book we read the verse
in the same sura v. 29, which tells us the way out of being killed “until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

They have to pay protection money and accept to be subdued, i.e. second class citizens, even if they live in their homeland. We see this put into practice
in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, and all the Middle Eastern countries that were conquered by Muslims in the first 100 years of Islam. The ancestors of the Christians who live there now suffered a lot to stay Christian.

"As for those who are slain in the cause of God, He will not allow their works to perish. ... He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them." (47:4-6)

"Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of God; whether he dies or triumphs, We shall richly reward
him. ... The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan ..." (4:74,76)

"The believers who stay at home––apart from those that suffer a grave impediment––are not the equals of those who fight for the cause of God with their
goods and their persons. God has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home ..." (4:95,96)

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. ... lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them
to go their way ..." (9:5)

"Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off
on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter: except those that
repent before you reduce them ..." (5:34,35)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme" (8:39)

"Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall
rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding." (8:65)

"Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given ... and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (9:29)


Need some more??? How about some facts about Mohamed. How he was a drunk , pedophile, rapist, and Murderer.
Yeah, pretty peaceful religion.
What is a true Muslim versus a fake one? Does the real one NOT follow the scriptures?

Ok first of all, you have to give me the link where u got that from, and second of all, Prophet Muhammed ( pbuh ) was never a Drunk ( Islam condems alcohol ), Pedophile ( he got a 9yr old girl to live with him, for several reasons, not to abuse her ), and Murderer, who did he kill?
I hope God forgives you for those comments.....

Ok i see, now, those are not false, i suggest take that to a member called TruthFul and he would answer you back, you can already see that its telling Muslims to protect them selves, by killing the attackers, im not sure
Go and ask Him.

Those are actual scriptures not links to some web site. Therefore I don't know what link you want. And as far as being a murderer,well there are several but here are a few:


When we read of the actions of the prophet of Islam, we see many cases of assassination. Most of these cases happened because someone criticized the prophet of Islam in speech only.

We read:

Ibn Ishak said: “The apostle said, “Kill any Jew that falls into your power.” Thereupon Muhayyisa ????? b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa ????? was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, ‘You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?’ Muhayyisa answered, ‘Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.’”
(El badyah wa alnihaya – Ibn Katheer – vol. 4 – in the chapter on killing Ka’ab bin al’Ashraf)



2 `Umayr’s Expedition To Kill Abu Afak

Mohammad once killed a man named (al-Harith b. Suwayd). When Abu Afak wrote a poem objecting to the murder, Muhammad said, “Who will deal with this rascal for me?” Whereupon Salim b. Umayr, brother of B. Amr b. Auf, one of the “weepers”, went forth and killed him. (Ibn Hisham – Dar el jeel
Beirut – 1411 –Vol. 6 -



3 UMAYR B. 3adi JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN

After Abu Afak was murdered, Asma wrote a poem blaming Islam and its followers of killing their opponenets.

When Muhammad heard what she had said he said, “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” Ummayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said,
“You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!” When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, so Umayr went back to his people. Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [girl]Marwan. She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, “I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don’t keep me waiting.” That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma.

The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam.”

(Ibn Katheer el bedayah wa alnehaya – vol. 5 – in the mention of the year 11 of hijrah also found in- Ibn Hisham – dar al jeel Beirut –
vol. 6 UMAYR B. ADIYY’S JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN)


4 Killing of a slave woman.

A blind man had a slave who he had taken a concubine, the mother of his children, who used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. He forbade her
but she did not stop.

One night she began to slander the Prophet and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about this. He assembled the people
and said: “I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up.” The man stood up. He sat before the Prophet and said: “Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I
rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet said: “Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.”


5 `Amr B Umayya EXPEDITION

Once Muhammad sent one of his followers named `Amr, to murder Muhammad’s enemy Abu Sufyan. However, the assassination attempt failed. As he returned home, he met a one-eyed shepherd. The shepherd and the Muslim man both identified themselves as members of the same Arab clan. Prior
to going asleep, the shepherd said that he would never become a Muslim. Umayya waited for the shepherd to fall asleep and thereafter: ”as soon as the bedouin was asleep and snoring I got up and killed him in a more horrible way than any man has been killed.”

Umayya returned and spoke with Muhammad. He relates.... ”He [Muhammad] asked my news and when I told him what had happened he blessed me.”

6 Umm Qirfa

Another example of Muhammad assassinating those who criticised him was when a woman named "Umm Qirfa" (Fatima) was taken prisoner. She was a very old woman. She used to mock Mohammad in speech and poems. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly, by tying a rope to
each of her two legs and to two camels and driving the camels in opposite directions until they tore her in two. (Al ‘saba – Ibn Hagar – vol. 4, page 231)


Are you of islamic faith? Why don't you know these things? That is the question.

Like i said, im Muslim and i never been told to hate or kill any race out there, im 100% sure that Islam condems killing of any kind, only self defence is acceptable, im not very religious, so talking about this with me wont go anywhere, go and ask a member called Truthful and he will answer all of your questions.

Not to make a big deal about it or anything, but there was been many cases of child molestation in Churches and atleast I dont blame the bible for it, Atleast i have a brain smart enough not to make wild acusations about Christinanity, you need to do that too, if you hate Islam then dont spread it, ok? Keep on lying thinking that if you go to a church one day , all your sins will be cleared up.

You know what? I dont care anymore and i wont try anymore, Good Luck!
I hope your disease gets healed soon.

Funny how you make such claims without full understanding of Islam, instead of opening your crappy mouth, do some reading, research and study what those passages are talking about,
I dont care to hear? I already told you, im not very religious, so i cant help you there, are you retarted or something? You dont know how to read?

Truth, making false claims that Prophet Mohammmad ( pbuh ) how he was a pedophile and a murder is not the truth, Like i said,
I feel bad for you, spread your crap around, tell everybody in the world, just keep your head up your ass.

Tell me just one single thing I said that was untrue!
I do plenty of reading btw therefore I am not "retarted"
Sounds like it is you that would benefit by picking up a few books.
Perhaps the Quran and the Hadeeth would be good starts for ya.
Perhaps then you could contribute with an intelligent retort instead of running your "crappy" uneducated mouth. I showed you the proof of that religion of hate but you choose to ignore it. On one hand you tell me that you know little of the religion but now you tell me to look into what those passages are talking about. Why don't you tell me since that is what I should do. Oh, you don't have a clue? How shocking! Sounds like someone has you led right down the path.
Again, tell me where I am wrong. If you can not do this , than what am I to believe? Everything I posted is directly from the book. I'm just the messenger. Why are you angry with me. But keep posting you hateful replies,as to further my knowledge of that "peaceful" religion.

I told you, im not very religious, so i dont know much, Go and show a member called Truthful and he will answer you,
You seem very childish to keep asking me and just because i didnt help you your just going to stay with those claims, and hateful replies? Lol
Your not 5yrs old, grow up, this is not a barney forum, get real!

TW why do you believe what you do if you can't explain why you believe it? Please don't confuse this question for position but how can you then say he's wrong?

He did quote from the Quran. Did you read any of what he posted or did you simply reject it on sight?

Well first of all, from what ive been taught from the Islamic School i used to go to, was to not kill anybody except for self defence, and what this guy posted from the Quran seemed that those were talking about Self Defence, im not sure, thats why im telling him to go and show these quotes to a member called Truthful and he would asnwer back, but this guy, Being so ignorant wont get off me and thinks just because i cant help him out it means that hes right, which is not true.

Did you learn this in school TW?

"Palestinian suffering goes back all the way to 1947, and Palestinian terrorism started in 1994, so how is this possible? Who knows?"

I think you need to do some research on your own and see that there was violence between these two long before 47. In 1923 the British gave Israel the west side of the Jordan River and the Jordanians got everything east of it. This was rejected by Arabs and they revolted. Not only that but in 1929 something happened dreadful in Hebron. I'll let you do the research. Go to a search engine and search "Hebron 1929". You will see that terrorism started long before 1947.

And although there wasn't a name given to terror groups they still existed committing violence against one another. But here are a few that organized with a name.

Irgun -1931 - 1948
Stern Gaing - 1940 - 1949

Eventually these two were disbanded Though they went reluctantly, they went.
These are still in operation today.

Fatah - 1956

PLO - 1963 (which is really made up of many other terrorist orgs. Dedicated to the destruction of Israel)

PLFP - 1967

Al Saiqa - 1967 (From Syria)

PDLFP - 1974

Arab Liberation Front - ?

Abu Nidal - 1974

Hamas - 1987

Hizballah - ? (dedicated to the destruction of Israel and all who negotiates peace with them)

Palestinian Islamic Jihad - 70's

Palestinian Liberation Front - 70's

Al-Aqsa Brigade - ?

Tanzim - ?

There are more, but now can you see why peace is hard to achieve? Whenever negotiations with the PA goes forth, one of these groups either vows to continue and blow up something, or demand negotiations between them too.
Hamas already has made a declaration that after Israel pulls out of the West Bank, they will be running the show there.

This is a large part of their own stumbling block for a better quality of life. There are other reasons as well, but as long as Palestine has these terror orgs, I don't believe things will ever get better for them.

Well put, Peace

Yes well put, but did they attack Israel before 1994?

TWBR do a search for "Hebron 1929" in yahoo or google.

Im aware of that, and thats the only attack that i know about before 1994, Palestinians attacked the Jewish citizens and they killed like around the 100s.

Try this link TW

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhist...itish%20Mandate

i was looking for that web site, i trusted it, until i saw they didnt include the Massacres that has been done on the Palestinians, it didnt include a section for Israeli terrorism, so i stop trusting it, but i saw they had a section for the Palestinian groups, gives you a lot of info, thanks.
This web site is pretty stupid also, its very pro-Israel, it says " the IDF killed 2000 Palestinians since 2000 in DEFENCE operations which based on the past actions of Israel i seriously doubt it, it also, blames the Palestinians for killing the Peace, but never mentions anything about Israel killing the Peace.

Suicide Bombing is a big help for Israel, it gives them the chance to slaughter Palestinian civilians and they use the Suicide Bombings as an excuse. Now they can kill all they want without getting in trouble.

So why give them an excuse to do it? They can't have it both ways. As for the article, the site I posted was for information not picking sides. Think about how biased the information you post in these forums are TW.

I guess it's a matter of perception right? My problem with Palestinians are the suicide bombers and the terrorist orgs. This is their biggest downfall.

My problem with Israel is their heavy handed responses.

Dude not only responses, you make it seem like it was the Palestinians that attacked first and Israel is now responding to them, you gotta be against Israel's actions also, this is why people support Israel , they dont know about the terrorism they have done to the Palestinians.

Point out my biased links, please

Let's start with the most obvious Aljazeera

well, tell me how it is biased and ill belive you, i already seen them do some biasing, its natural, just like every Pro-Israeli site, but AlJazeera is very trustful.

Of course they are, to you because they're Arab journalist. Tell me have you ever seen them post Palestinians in a negative light or accountability?

Ok, then is Haaretz Daily and BBC biased also?

No, but JeninJenin is. Besides, you use the others to collaborate than to demonstrate. There's a difference you know.

How is JeninJenin Biased? sorry for busting your balls, but if your going to make claims like that then prove it to me.

Ok, then let me see...

Alright, heres two sights that deny the massacre at Jenin ever occured. In fact one of then states that after an ambush of 13 Israeli soldiers occured, and the other says a wave of suicide bombings occurred, this is why the incursion into Jenin occurred, because they (terrorist) were based in that refugee camp for years, and in fact, they even dared Israel to come into those camps and they got their wish.

No Massacre In Jenin.

http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/isra020430.html

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/p...SubContrassID=0

So basicly an article that does not support the claim that there was a Massacre is not biased and an article that does is biased, which is not a good thing to do, BUT
From what i read from those two articles, they do not seem biased at all, and i trust Haaretz daily, they do say that there was some unlawful killings, and not by the Palestinians which one of you guys said, and its not really fair to say that there were only 52 Palestinians killed since Israel didnt let the UN and the Human Rights group go into Jenin and investigate, who knows , what Israel could of or what they did in those days, Might not be called a Massacre but to me it sure looks like it.
Great links by the way.

TWBR by the way BBC is actually very biased against Jews and Israel, just thought I would point that out.

Also TWBR, it IS the Palestinians who strike first, it is ISRAEL who retaliates! You can't seem to grasp this can you? It is time that you accept that the Palestinian terrorists are not justified in anyway, and are not retaliating but attacking first.

Im sorry but whenever Israel strikes , a Palestinian Group vowes revenge , i kno that Israel does this to kill the terrorists, but its not working, its creating more terrorism rather than less,dont forget about the many civilians that had been killed and not in defence forces, Maybe based in the past actions of the 90s, you can say that, but when you go back all the way to 47, Israel is the ones who strike first, remember the massacres.

Somehow TW after providing you with other information you insist on projecting the message that all this started in 1947 with Israel striking at Palestinians first. Even after pointing you to the Hebron incidents in 1929 and earlier incidents in the 20's, you insist on saying it all started when Israel attack Palestinians in 1947.

The reason why I posted those 2 links was to gauge your reaction more so than anything. To tell you the truth, I think you faired very well there and you have moments where you seem to understand. But it's posting like "Israel attacked first in 47" or "Palestinians are only attacking in retaliation" which completely make me anyway, lose some faith you your objectivity.

Also, I think you need to change your signature. Although you disagree with Merk, it makes you look like you're attacking him and I don't think that's the message want to display now do you?

But the problem is that in 1929 it was the Palestinians versus the Jewish people, you cant link the Hebron incident with 1947, they werent figthing because of Israel, they were figthing because the Palestinians didnt want Jews to migrate to Palestine, so it wasnt Israel versus the Palestinians, it was the Palestinian civilians againts the Jewish civilians, Israel was never created at that time, so you cant link this incident with the Israel and Palestine problem, you can if only and only if the Palestinians were attacking the Jews because they feared that they will somehow create a Jewish state in Palestine, it looks like that was the case, but it wasnt, Muslims and Jews never got a long, thus creating violence between the Palestinians and the Jews,

Now the Zionist terrorism that started in the 1940s can be linked to the Israel and Palestine problem mainly because they were attacking the Palestinians , so Israel could be created.

TW it has been constant violence between Israel and Palestinians since the 1920's. Arabs rejected Israel who got 1/4 of the land from the British, and accepted Jordan which got 3/4 of the land. There has been revolts and battles every since and is directly linked to the chaos not only in 47 but today.

If it wasn't for zionism, no massacres would have taken place. Jewish Palestinians were allowed to settle there for thousands of years as well, zionism changed all that.

Antizion most of that land wasn't even developed. In fact it was because Jews migrated there and developed the land that caused more Arabs to come because of the job opportunities in doing so.

But let me ask you this. If the land occupide was in reverse and Israel got the east side of the Jordan River and Jordan got the west side of it, where do you think the battle would be waged today?

It was constant rejection of their presence there at all that has led to the carnage over the decades we see today.

Your missing the point. If it wasn't for Zionism, there would still be a Palestine today with many Jewish, Christian and Muslim Palestinians existing (there are Jewish and Christian Palestinians still today, but hardly any Jewish ones and not that many Christian ones.)

Antizion there wasn't a Palestine for over 2000 yrs. The land was ruled by Romans, Ottomans, then the British. So why isn't there any concern with the Jordanians Anti? They occupy not only 3/4 of the land that was considered Palestine, but they also under force occupied the West Bank from 48 to 67 and nothing was ever said about this, even to this day.

How is it that they argue over 1/4 of the land and Jordan got 3/4 of it and they say nothing about the 3/4 of it.

1) There was a Palestine, there was a country called Palestine regardless of who ruled it

2) You are still dodging the point!

I'm not dodging nothing and in fact I think you are. You talk of Zionism and what they have done. What did they do that Jordan didn't? Why not have a problem with the Jordanians since they got MOST of Palestine.

And to say Palestine existed, then you must say so did Israel then. That point is moot.

Jordanians should not be entering this conversation.

I have noticed that when ever you attack Israel, the pro-Israel Zionist will never defend them, simply attack Arabs.

I understand why you don't want them (Jordanians) to be a part of this. After all it exposes the true element behind this entire mess now doesn't it? You can bring America into this and its support for Israel though right?

See the facts are these. It's more going on that simply injustices and you know it if you're taking this position. I'm pointing to proven history and you say forget about that part and focus on Israel.

Amazing Antizion because I thought you had more objectivity but I was wrong I guess.

Was that an attempt to claim the Bible tells its followers to kill every one who is not a believer? Maybe it is to early here and I didn't get it. I'll read it again because I don't have a clue at what your point is. I'm sure that some people here will love to destroy your theory.Christianity,Bad. Islamic radical fundelmentalism that is responsible for nearly every war fought, and kill babies nearly every day=good. You have got to be f,ing kidding me. As a side note to this peaceful religion: I love this story. Hear about the girl who was raped by her brothers? Well the mom and pop didn't want that word to get out. Not the word that the boys were vial rapists, but she was not going to be a virgin when eventually married because of this violation by her brothers. Solution,Kill her. Please tell me this is an isolated case so I can call you a liar.

"Do tell. enlighten us about the many evils of Mohammed".

Already have!

Was that an attempt to claim the Bible tells its followers to kill every one who is not a believer?

Incredible, i wonder why god didnt give you a brain. How the hell can you say that after reading Luke's replies?

Islamic radical fundelmentalism that is responsible for nearly every war fought, and kill babies nearly every day=good.

Wow, every war? You seem to be very educated, and kill babies every day? Wow, what planet are you talking about becuase its not here.

You have got to be f,ing kidding me. As a side note to this peaceful religion: I love this story. Hear about the girl who was raped by her brothers? Well the mom and pop didn't want that word to get out. Not the word that the boys were vial rapists, but she was not going to be a virgin when eventually married because of this violation by her brothers. Solution,Kill her. Please tell me this is an isolated case so I can call you a liar.

WTF are you talking about? What is this?

I will not be answering your querries TWBR. You are blind and a part of the great unwashed IMO,therefore ANYTHING put to you is futile. I have given you numerous examples and oneofpeace has explained it even better than I,but you are set/indoc'ed/brainwashed. And quite frankly, if you reside here in the US as you claim, and I was an FBI agent, I would follow you everywhere you went.

Oh yeah im blind, i wonder how im typing this right now, oh brainwashed now? You never even seen me in your whole entire life and your saying that i was brainwash, great, your showing us more of your knowledge, keep it coming, i wanna hear you say something about Muslims responsible for the Holocaust or Prophet Muhammed telling Hitler to do the Holocaust, come on, continue to make us laugh, we'll be here waiting for your posts.