Heres a great article from BBC, and one more thing, guys never ever relly on CNN.
Viewpoint: Palestinian suicide attacks
By Jenny Tonge MP
In Jerusalem
Palestinian 'martyrs' are treated as heroes
The British MP travelled to Israel and the West Bank at the invitation of BBC Radio 4's Today programme to meet families and victims of suicide bombers, after she caused controversy by saying she might consider becoming a suicide bomber herself if forced to live like the Palestinians.
My remarks last month, expressing empathy with suicide bombers, had been misinterpreted by the tabloids as meaning sympathy and approval.
It was, therefore, with some trepidation that I travelled from Jerusalem to the checkpoint out to Bethlehem and the Occupied Territories.
The morning was cold and wet and added to the gloom of Palestine.
I would challenge anyone to spend a few days here and see the contrasts between modern Israel and its affluent citizens and the third world of Palestine.
The blame lies with both sides - I know that - but the ordinary Palestinian has to live in this third world while most Israelis never go there.
In Israel, the armed forces have F16 fighter planes, helicopter gun-ships, tanks, even nuclear weapons.
The disparity was pointed out to me by a civil society group in Bethlehem, when I asked why Palestinians used suicide bombers.
"Tell the US to give us the arms that Israel has and we will stop such attacks," was the response.
Someone has reminded me that Samson was the first suicide attacker.
Wrath of God
As we talked at our first meeting in Bethlehem the room shook and the earth roared - a 5.6 magnitude earthquake, the first in 10 years, struck causing us to run out of the building and wait.
We were lucky there was no more wrath from God that day.
We met up with some al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade terrorists after lurking guiltily in Manger Square waiting for them to arrive.
We were taken to a safe Christian house, where two bearded, shaded, skull-capped men, one with a black Kalashnikov, sat on a sofa near a huge wall hanging of Jesus the Good Shepherd.
Suicide attack remarks lost Tonge her front-bench seat
They had heard about my remarks and were pleased that I understood the reasons why they were terrorists, even "proud" of me. This was spine-chilling.
More re-assuring was the statement that they now accepted that Israel had a right to exist and their campaign would stop when Israel withdrew to its 1967 borders, removed settlements and returned Jerusalem to the Palestinians.
It is a different message from the one we have been used to.
National heroes
We visited the family of a suicide bomber. The stories of indoctrination of little children right through their schooldays didn't seem to apply here.
The brothers of Mohamed showed no signs of this and his mother claimed she had no idea her son was planning this until the al-Aqsa Brigade delivered his "memorial" picture taken before the mission.
It is certainly true that suicide bombers are regarded as national heroes here, but what else do they have - born out of despair and the desire to resist occupation, laced with religious belief.
Civilian targets are chosen because there is no way of getting at military targets.
We visited the spot where the Angel Gabriel "came down" to the shepherds in their fields and drove back to Jerusalem as a rainbow formed over the golden city - surely one of the most beautiful places on earth.
The next day back in Israel, I couldn't find anyone who was willing to see why the Palestinians resorted to suicide attacks.
Some of the Israeli arguments had truth in them, but it was all so negative.
Until, late in the day, we met a single mother whose 15-year-old daughter had been killed in the local supermarket by an 18-year-old female suicide bomber.
Grief-stricken, she had tried to contact the bomber's family, only to find they were "proud" of their daughter.
But then she received a letter from a Palestinian mother expressing her condolences and asking for a meeting. Her young, civilian son had been killed by an Israeli soldier. They were going to meet.
I left this woman feeling that there was the first sign of reconciliation; we know there are many such people in Israel and Palestine, fed up with the stupidity of their leaders.
First suicide attack: Hamas kills eight people in Afula in April 1994
120 Israelis died in attacks between 1994 and September 2000
440 Israelis killed and 3,000 injured in attacks since September 2000 (updated 26 December 2003)
Merkava you were right about one thing, suicide bombings didnt start in 2000.
One more thing, Suicide Bombing did worsen things for the Palestinians, but they dont care anymore, they just want to die and get the suffering over with.
Im not making this thread to support Suicide Bombing, im making it to make people think, what causes this, Instead of being ignorant and start hating the Palestinians for this, you should go all the way back and see what makes them carry out acts like these.
It doesn't matter WHY they do it, they have to stop committing these terrible acts. They have no right to take away the life of another person. They need to take a long look at themselves before pointing all the blame on Israel.
Ok, antizionist your starting to sound like Merkava, it does matter why they do it, so then when you find out whats causing it to happen, you try to make it stop so then Suicide Bombing will stop. All the blame for the Suicide Bombings do go to Israel, its their fault that Hamas was created, as well as those several other groups, PLO is a different story, but Israel created Hamas and now Israel is going to have to face how Hamas will retaliate for the attacks done to the Palestinians.
More re-assuring was the statement that they now accepted that Israel had a right to exist and their campaign would stop when Israel withdrew to its 1967 borders, removed settlements and returned Jerusalem to the Palestinians.
You see? Israel has to do several things in order to stop these groups, Once Israel does so, we can see groups like Hamas stop.
Nothing justifies the murder of innocent people. Nothing. If they want to take it out on anybody, then bomb military targets which will hit Israel hard and reduce casualties. This way they will be taken more notice of and gain a lot more sympathy.
I know, but in order to make this stop, Israel has to cease the attacks on the Palestinians, the suicide bombing which happened yesterday or today , happened in retaliation of the killing of 15 Palestinians. Israel causes mosts of the suicide bombings by attacking.
antizionist2004 said this in post #10 : Nothing justifies the murder of innocent people. Nothing. If they want to take it out on anybody, then bomb military targets which will hit Israel hard and reduce casualties. This way they will be taken more notice of and gain a lot more sympathy.
That was my thinking too. However the BBC article did point out one consideration I hadn't taken into account:
quote:
Civilian targets are chosen because there is no way of getting at military targets.
I still oppose the attacks on civillians, but it no longer seems quite so illogical that they continue to discourage international support with these attacks on civillians.
What I haven't heard from anyone is what other avenue do they have of achieving their goals?
So there is no other way Luke? Acts like this is dispicable. and Sympathy for it is tantamount to supporting their actions.
It's hypocritical for TWBR to blame Israel for suicide bombers then blame Israel for going in and killing terrorist. He blames nothing, nothing on Palestinians. That is blind bias and unrealistic.
Anyone can destroy, it doesn't take much intelligence to do that, but in order to make their plight easier, this has to stop. One day it's going to stop trust me, The question is how? It can be done peacefully or violently. At the rate things are going, and those with the mentality of TWBR, my guess is that a lot more suffering will be at hand before it stops.
The attitude of "we have no other recourse" is primitive and barbaric. TWBR, you say that the Palestinians don't care. Well when the day comes that Israel gets to that point, you will have to sew on two more hands to point all the fingers you're going to be pointing at Israel.
Ofcorse it is Israels fault that Palestinians are carrying out these attacks, Israel's actions causes it to happen, I dont blame the palestinian civilians for this, i blame the Palestinian Groups also, Israel created Hamas,Islam Jihad, and those groups.
Ofcorse it is Israels fault that Palestinians are carrying out these attacks, Israel's actions causes
I have to disagree. It is the Palestinian's fault they are doing it. Israel aren't forcing them.
quote:
i blame the Palestinian Groups also, Israel created Hamas,Islam Jihad, and those groups.
The irony! TWBR you are not being literal here. However, did you know that Israel actually CREATED hamas? About 30 years ago, it was originally to fight the PLO and take away support from them. However, this plan backfired after the intifada when they all joined and went against Israel !!
oneofpeace said this in post #13 : So there is no other way Luke? Acts like this is dispicable. and Sympathy for it is tantamount to supporting their actions.
I don't claim there is no other way, but I'm at a loss as to what it would be, and I haven't heard anyone else come up with anything better than "there are other ways to solve this." International efforts in the past to reach peace have been the best hope so far, but Israel insists that the terrorism stops before they will agree - and sure enough, just as the pens are getting dipped in the ink wells, some kid blows himself up in a bus or something, and Israel says "SEEE?!!" and bulldozes some homes or shoots some alleged terrorists. And on it goes.
As you have said, the whole mentality in that region needs to change - as long as the Palestinians [and Israelis I add] think and act as they do, there can be no peace.
It's hypocritical for TWBR to blame Israel for suicide bombers then blame Israel for going in and killing terrorist. He blames nothing, nothing on Palestinians. That is blind bias and unrealistic.
True, TW has an extreme perspective, and with that a bit of one-sided bias. At the same time, many on the Israeli side of the argument are just as hypocritical and just as one-sided in their arguments. When I return from my free trip to Israel we'll see whether I become more like TWBR or more like Merkava.
Be careful over there Luke. I want to go there so badly but I refuse to. I don't want to be a casualty of their foolishness.
I find myself arguing with pro-Israeli supporters about Israel's tactics. They are heavy handed indeed. It seems like it doesn't take much for them over there to grab a gun and start firing screaming things like "jihad" or "Allah is great". Like I posted before, a visit to Jerusalem by Sharon kicked off such a violent streak that continues today. It makes no sense that someone can believe so whole heartedly in a religion that a simply visit can spur such violence.
Palestinians are not the first to suffer. There are ways to gain attention without resorting to such animal tactics as suicide bombings. They can organize and bring national attention with protests and marches and strikes. This is effective as Ghandi, MLK, and others have proven in the past. No oppressed group I know of ever gained real victory without negotiation. It may take a while but will be more effective than bombing a civilian bus.
