Concerns About Marriage

Culture & Society Forum

Kookaburra was going to share with us her point of view on marriage.

I hope she does decide to join and express these concerns of hers.

Thank you for the invite gaboman. What would you like to know about how I feel about marriage? If I don't answer them below, then let me know and I'll do the best I can to answer.

I believe:

Marriage was instituted by God and is between one man and one woman... yes I know God allowed multiple wives in the beginning and I'm not God so I don't know why He set it to one man and one woman. I have to research this more as I have not spent time on it.

Sex outside of marriage is fornication

Sex by a married person with someone not their spouse is adultry

Divorce is not acceptable Biblically except for unfaithfulness

America is yet in trouble in the marriage department too, because people have decided to do whatever feels right to them, regardless of what God says.

I see...

the Divorce part, are you saying if one member is unfaithful, then the faithful party then has the right to divorce?

Also, it would be good if you could tell us when and why it become one man, one woman.

In the case of one of the couple dying, does the surviving partner have the right to re-marry? (I mean, I know they do, but in your eyes?)

Sean, I couldn't have put that better. Thank you for putting down, so well, what I, and MANY others, are feeling.

Great way to put it Sean!

But going on the whole bible theory, Kooka, about the divorce part. Only in cases of unfaithfulness.

What if a man doesn't commit adultery, but beats his wife and children. Would that be ok, falling under the lines of spare the rod, spoil the child?

Kooka, the multiple wives part, that had to do with the first wife being barren. There are several cases in the Old Testament where God told someone to take another wife to have a child.

Sean

<--- 'cause everyone else seems to be doing it

I could have predicted which very same people would make comments in this thread as well. Gaboman, not sure that you actually care about what my views are, but rather, what debates you can bring about.

Sean, as for your comments, you already know where I stand and as I've stated MANY times, I use the Bible for determining right from wrong. That's no surprise to any of you.

I'm not surprised each of you has joined this thread to defend your views against the Bible. I have also learned that you aren't here because you want to hear my views. You're here hoping to find another opportunity to pounce on what the Bible says.

Pounce away..... you have pretty much shown how you feel about God's Word anyway, and you have a Bible available to you as much as I do. If you want to know what God says about marriage, take a look. There is nothing to debate, as you do not hold the Bible with the same authority that I do.

Your basis for debate is based on the freedom of America. My basis is based on God's Word, and apparently the two are opposite.

God's Word speaks for itself, and I'm not going to debate marriage with you. Gaboman, guess you will just have to carry on with the others.

Here is my concern about marriage. Why (religiously or not) should two people stay married to each other when one (or both) partners do not love the other (each other) any longer?

I think that is an unhappy environment for the couple, and now two people that used to be happy are now sentenced to a life together of unhappiness. I think they should part and live their own lives. However religiously this would be wrong, since neither of then was unfaithful to the other.

Or is that wrong, religiously I mean, and why would it be?

Um, I am not pouncing on the Bible. I brought a point to help with the multiple wives part.

Judge not least ye be judged.

And, hey! Just because I don't agree with other people's views on things doesn't mean I'm not always interested in hearing them... Which was what I was waiting for... never got responses to my queries...

I never said I don't respect anyone who doesn't hold the same view Sean. You see, the "other half of the country" as you put it, view Christians as intolerant, hateful, bigots, and every other name I've seen them called in this forum, just because we DON'T accept or tolerate their ways.

There are very strong views on both sides, and each is going to hold fast to what they believe. So we need to clarify something right off the bat here.

1. I hold fast to what I believe
2. Just because I hold fast to it, does not mean I don't respect others if they don't.
3. I don't believe ONLY Christians are God's children. I believe anyone who accepts Christ as their Savior are God's children. Also, it is possible to confess Christ as as your Savior, but not really know Him. After all, He said "not everyone who says "LORD" are His...... some give lip service to the LORD but their hearts are not with Him (paraphrased)
4. I do not expect American's to abide by the word set for by God. God gave us free will and each person is able to choose for themselves how they want to live.
5. I have very strong disagreements about marriage and how it came about. It's not a union sanctified by laws. Perhaps it ended up that way, but I believe it was instituted by God.

For those who don't agree with me, you are entitled to your opinion just as I am to my opinion. Because I don't agree with any of you does not make me intolerant, bigot, or whatever else people with my views are being called now-a-days.

And while we are on this subject of "views" I find it interesting that the majority on this thread, and the homosexual threads, are pretty hard on those who don't agree with THEIR views. So, who's being intolerant of whom?

Also, I don't understand how you phrase this "YOUR God" and YOUR Bible... are you saying you have a different God than me? And if you are referring to other gods, are you saying you accept other gods or acknowledge them? I'm not sure what you mean by pointing out MY (YOUR) God. Is there a reason that is specified, as if to say I have a different god than the rest of the country?

chel, I have to say that I agree with you... same thing!

I think that man has twisted up so much and made religion into what it is.
But, like you, that's just my opinion.

The references to "your God" and "your Bible" are intended as reminders that your version of God and your printed version of the Bible are not the only ones in this country and abroad. Muslims and Hindus, for example, follow and believe in something VERY different. And although their beliefs are also rooted in peace and love and happiness and prosperity, there are some fundamentally different values handed down which should make it pretty clear that they answer not to your God, but some other.

My personal belief is not of consequence as I have yet to meet anyone who agrees with my beliefs. But I don't hold that against y'all..

Great way to put it Sean!

Religion the worst creation EVER in my opinion.................. marriage should be for ANYONE that chooses to go that road....................after all the "immoral, sinful" relationships now a days I thought religious people would be jumping at the idea of a couple ACTUALLY wanting to get married, go figure?!

I for one, find the idea of a piece of paper, validating my love for my mate to be really INSULTING........... I have been "living in sin" with my boyfriend for 6 years and we are HAPPY together......no ceremony is going to make me love him any more or less.............. and I find people like Kooka, calling it sinful to be hypocrites as these are the same people who's priests are molesting children......... "don't cast stones if you live in a glass house" .......but back to topic

And Kooka not eveyone worships the same god.........my "Goddess" for example is different than yours and actually teaches TO LOVE ALL.................something I find missing now a days form the catholic and christian churches..........

anyhow just this only my opinion of course and therefore different than yours............

Erika

Goddess Joker? Well, Blessed be sister!

Yes Chel, I am Wiccan, didn't you see the signature I had before this one?? and before anyone makes any stupid remarks, NO I AM NOT A WITCH..............

In my religion we are taught to respect everything and everyone as harming comes back 3-fold..........

Glad to see you saw the connection Chel............

Blessed be..............

Sure, we saw that, Erika. I'm glad that you have respect for all things!

Well yeah KJ I do.........even though at times .............. hahaha enuff said!!

I'm new to the topic here. "if you don't like the committment, don't take the vows". Some people change over time. For example, what if after many years of a happy marriage, one of the spouces becomes a drug addict or an alcoholic. These factors drastically alter one's personality. I don't think it's right to stay in an unhappy marriage for the sake of being committed to the vows taken when they were different people. I do agree that divorce in America is running ramped and people are throwing around the word divorce too easily, but there are circumstances other than unfaithfulness in which divorce is justified. Or what about people who become pregnant out of marriage? Granted, what they did was irresponsible to begin with and some of those couples shouldn't have gotten married to begin with. But, why should they and their child suffer in a loveless and arguementative home?

you have a point about the drug addiction. or if one of the parents is abusive, y'know?

but everything else is like I said. Don't say you're going to stick together for better or for worse til death do you part if you're not going to. If you change the vows to "until we get tired of each other" well then I can't argue with that. But when you stand in front of that minister and say "I do" it's a promise, and if you break it that makes you a liar and makes your other promises meaningless.

Yes, wny23... excellent post. Just because couples who enter into marriage, does not mean that there won't be things that come up, down the road that can't end a marriage. Sometimes you can work through them with counseling, or the giving of an ultimatium. My mother gave my father in the first year of their marriage. She found that he was popping pills. She gathered them all, put them in his hand and told him, if you don't flush these now, I'm leaving. Years later, when I was in my teens, she gave him another one. If you don't stop how you treat our daughter, the children and I are leaving, period. It happens. Marriages fade... but you have to WORK at them... like any relationship. If you don't cultivate a friendship, it fades away. If you don't cultivate your love, actively partake in things, it fades. If you have a marriage that is filled with bitter hate and anger, lies, a cheating spouse, an abusive spouse, etc... how can you WANT to stay? Just because you make the vows to that person, doesn't mean that you have to stay in it and put up with crap. Sometimes, it is better to move on, leave, end the marriage. But, I also think that we have far too many people who get married, without those ever-lasting intentions. We have too many people who divorce at the drop of a hat. We have become a society that is just so 'me' oriented, not 'we'.

I wish that I could legally marry... because I have no intentions of every leaving my partner.
But, that doesn't mean that somewhere down the road, things won't change. Do I want them to? Of course not. I have every intention of this being for the rest of my life. It's been 5 years, and it's still good. But, all couple do go through things. It's where we place our focus, our trust, etc... It's what we give. If you don't give... it won't last.

Good points KJ!

You know another sprung to mind when I was reading your post. Kids are directly effected by the kind of relationship their parents have. Often when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, her daughters end up dating or marrying abusive men. Our parents provide our blue print and are our role models for how we interact with others in our adult lives. (Which is why you eventually turn into your parents.) If a relationship is bad and people continue to stay together, they're not only damaging themselves, but their kids as well. And further poisoning society with perpetually screwed up kids.
Yes a marriage is a blessed thing, but divorce can be as well.

Another excellent point, Shel. Kids are shaped by their parents, and the enviornment that their surrounded in.

I agree with everything you guys are saying, but I thought we were talking about people who "fall out of love."

A child who is raised in an abusive environment is likely to be abusive/abused later on. But a child who is raised with weak-willed parents will grow up to be weak.

Again I'm not talking about addicts, abusive people, or adulterers, I'm talking about the people who don't follow through on their word. Just because you don't feel the warm fuzzy puppy love anymore isn't a good enough reason to get divorced.

Okay, that's what I was talking about Dekka, when I was saying that you have to put effort into the relationship. You have to be willing to know that things can become mundane and know that it's okay. It doesn't mean that there needs to be an 'end' to things. I agree with you... people are just too quick to divorce and walk away from one another. That's why I said all that I did. Taking the whole equation of problems out of a marriage... just talking about not having those 'warm fuzzy feelings' anymore, you're right. It isn't an excuse to end it. You've made some great points, Dekka.

Dekka always makes great points! And he's right, if people call it quits after 6 months or a year because they're not really in love, they never should have gotten married to begin with.

I think that nowadays some of the problems might lie in the following:

- Couples getting married too young. The mentality of young adults at age 18 is MUCH different from their mentality at age 25. A lot of couples who get married at 17, 18 or 19 end up divorced within a year or two. Every girl I knew who got married within the first 3 years out of High School is divorced from their first husbands. Most of them were entranced with the idea of having a wedding, but never gave marriage that much thought. All of them have said that they got married before they really knew who they were as individuals.

Although, there is the occasional youthful couple who marries and remains not only in love, but faithful and happy to their High School Sweetheart spouse. But it's not that common.

some people sadly enough do it (marry) to get attention.......... ,ie Britney Spears............ who was married for what?? 30 minutes!! Gimme a break.........

hehehe I know, that's pathetic...

I heard on the radio this morning that in Taiwan, you can sue your spouse if they have an affair... in Western Countries, there's even "no fault divorce," but in Asia, first you can sue them, then divorce 'em and take 'em for even more

funny

Actually the story I heard was interesting: a doctor started to feel his wife was cheating on him, so he set up a couple of spy cameras in her house (because he doesn't actually live with her, they are seperate because he cheated on her before...) So, he caught her with 3 different guys over a few months... and they found 2 of the guys and he's suing her, and these 2 guys they could identify... the guys all claimed they never did it, but then they showed the tape and it was them. But, of course, the tape isn't admissible, so the judge says "sure, it's not admissable, but we've all seen it's you guys, so do you want to change your claim that you never did it?"



that's my story for the day...

Well, Ron and I are not our parents, not even close. My parents did not love each other. Rons are divorced. You can become your parents or the opposite. Our marriage is the basis for our family. We are the foundation. We are best friends, and when we said our vows before God and family, we meant till death do us part. Whatever it takes to make it work, we will do. We have been together for 13+ years and going on our 8th anniversary in May. We did what many do not. We really knew the other person and share the same values. Marriage does take nurturing.

Sherry, I envy you. I hope to be in your shoes one day.

I bet you will be Chel. You are smart, and you will pick the right guy.

Oh okay, I guess in the US you can sue for everything, so why not that

But, well, still the no-fault divorce thing is in effect

Though she still could've taken him for everything

I found the law she sued under:

She sued under the state's (North Carolina) alien of affection law.

She won 2 million dollars.

I say good for her!

That's right... you should really think twice before having to cheat on your spouse.
If you're THAT unhappy, talk to them... see if it can be worked out. If not, seperate.

I've been in a VERY unhappy marriage... and what I did to my ex-husband nearly destroyed him.
If at all costs... be upfront, right from the start.

Ahhh! Kris hold it right there! You're on 8888 posts! So cool!

Such a lucky number in Chinese too

PS. Yeah, good for her though the case I stated is sad... she was just trying different boyfriends after her husband cheated on HER that really sucks, doesn't it?

The oldest form of marriage where all the men of one phratría, or a clan, or a certain group inside clan had sexual relationships with all the women of that group. It replaced the original promiscuity and later in its development was replaced by pair marriage. The existence of this form of marriage was established in result of ethnographic research of Aborigines and some other primitive peoples.

Some people still practice it now:
http://www.ourlittlequad.com/

this form of marriage still exists in the form of sororities and fraternaties...

Dekka00:

I've been used to think those were same sex groups...

I think that forms of marriage are much influenced by the technical level of the society inside which they're practiced.

The group marriage suited best the primitive communual people, who had primitive instruments of labour and because of that only a group of several males and females could support themselves.

A pair family of a man and a woman would die out because they couldn't produce enough for their living.

Later, as intstruments of labour improved, the marriage of a man and a woman became the minimal viable group.

Of course, technical level isn't the only reason leading to some particular form of marriage. We see that in Middle Ages people of the West lived in monogamous families while the people of Muslim world lived in polygamy.

and today we are slowly but surely sliding back towards the "primitive" ways.

"progress" is an illusion...

That is is Dekka................ that it is..............

and yes if you are unhappy with your husband/wife........ why is it so god DAMN hard to tell them and get a divorce?? It is the stupidest thing when I hear "but I didn't want to hurt him/her!" WTF??? Did you think that having her/him finding out you were cheating was NOT going to hurt??? RIDICULOUS!!!!

Sorry.................. someone cheated on me once and I guess it still upsets me!!!

back to topic.............................