1)Suppose the U.S. Congress passed a law that said as the United States is a Christian nation then any Christian person anywhere in the world is automatically eligible to become a citizen. Do you seriously think the UN would not have a fit and scream racism?
Well, Israel has such a law for Jews. For example, a Russian Jew can become a citizen, but a Palestinian driven out of his own country in 1948 cannot return.
However, when the UN then call Israel racist for doing just this, Israel cries "anti-semitism." See the irony when we look at the situation practically??
2) Suppose, for another example, a group of wealthy people established the Christian National Fund. This fund would be used to purchase property. Once purchased, the property could never be sold to, rented to or leased to a non-Christian. Would that not be called discrimination? Well, there is such a fund called the Jewish National Fund, which has all of those restrictions on the property it owns. It played a great part in establishing Israel.
And, of course, if American officials routinely issued building permits to Christians while denying them to Jews or other groups, that would be considered racist. And neighborhoods that denied non-Christians an opportunity to buy or rent would likewise be considered racist. All of these forms of discrimination are practiced in Israel against Palestinians. That is a FACT. Non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or rent land! And you dont find this racist??
3) Did you know that Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to
distinguish Israelis and Arabs? The Israelis have yellow license plates, the palestinians have blue license plates. The Israelis claim it is for security. If this was the case, then why do CHRISTIAN and JEWISH arabs have to have these different coloured license plates, as these minority people obviously hold no threat to Israelis?
4) Are you aware that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and
the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians? Smell racism?
5) It was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads. This is a clear example of how Jews and non-Jews are being diffrenciated from each other. And the jobs that didn't allow non-jews to apply for them didnt even have to do with Judaism! They could just be normal jobs!
antizionist2004 said this in post #1 : 5 points proving Israel's racist policies:
1)Suppose the U.S. Congress passed a law that said as the United States is a Christian nation then any Christian person anywhere in the world is automatically eligible to become a citizen. Do you seriously think the UN would not have a fit and scream racism?
Well, Israel has such a law for Jews. For example, a Russian Jew can become a citizen, but a Palestinian driven out of his own country in 1948 cannot return.
However, when the UN then call Israel racist for doing just this, Israel cries "anti-semitism." See the irony when we look at the situation practically??
Israel may be a Jewish state, but it's a Jewish Democracy. Name one Arab Democracy. In the Israeli knesset there is an Arab representative. There is also a large population of Israeli Arabs, and Israeli christians in Israel.
As for the Palestinians that were kicked ou in 1948, they were asked to leave by their own Arab armies, to make the "jew sweep" an easier job.
The UN does not question Israel's form of citizenship. In fact, it was the UN who originally decided to have one Jewish state, and one Arab state.
Why should Palestinians get citizenship? Can a Mexican get an American Citizenship on the spot?
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antizionist2004 said this in post #1 : 2) Suppose, for another example, a group of wealthy people established the Christian National Fund. This fund would be used to purchase property. Once purchased, the property could never be sold to, rented to or leased to a non-Christian. Would that not be called discrimination? Well, there is such a fund called the Jewish National Fund, which has all of those restrictions on the property it owns. It played a great part in establishing Israel.
And, of course, if American officials routinely issued building permits to Christians while denying them to Jews or other groups, that would be considered racist. And neighborhoods that denied non-Christians an opportunity to buy or rent would likewise be considered racist. All of these forms of discrimination are practiced in Israel against Palestinians. That is a FACT. Non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or rent land! And you dont find this racist??
So a bunch of Jews buying land and only selling it to other Jews is Racist? I think the owner of a land should have a right to sell it to whoever he wants to.
Did you know Jews aren't allowed to own ANY land in Saudi Arabia?
antizionist2004 said this in post #1 : 3) Did you know that Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to
distinguish Israelis and Arabs? The Israelis have yellow license plates, the palestinians have blue license plates. The Israelis claim it is for security. If this was the case, then why do CHRISTIAN and JEWISH arabs have to have these different coloured license plates, as these minority people obviously hold no threat to Israelis?
The same reason a New york lisence plate is different than a European one. And last time I checked, Arabs were the ones blowing themselves up, not Jews.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #1 : 4) Are you aware that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and
the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians? Smell racism?
Wow, Israel actually supplies the Palestinians with water? That's awfully kind of them, I wouldnt think they would be required to do such a thing. Maybe you should check out the population of Israel vs. The population of the territories.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #1 : 5) It was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads. This is a clear example of how Jews and non-Jews are being diffrenciated from each other. And the jobs that didn't allow non-jews to apply for them didnt even have to do with Judaism! They could just be normal jobs!
So what do you think?
'Jew only' ads. With you, its either twisted beyond belief, or just made up.
Israel may be a Jewish state, but it's a Jewish Democracy. Name one Arab Democracy. In the Israeli knesset there is an Arab representative. There is also a large population of Israeli Arabs, and Israeli christians in Israel.
SO WHAT?? Don't you understand, we're not talking about the Arab countries here! Remember, two wrongs don't make a right!
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As for the Palestinians that were kicked ou in 1948, they were asked to leave by their own Arab armies, to make the "jew sweep" an easier job.
Some left of their own accord, I grant you that, however there were lots who were forced out of their homes, propery, businesses and farms for the Jews to live in. Can you understand why the palesitinians are pretty mad? I mean, wouldnt you be mad if some random guy came up to you and took your house?? (and then got AWAY with it???)
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The UN does not question Israel's form of citizenship. In fact, it was the UN who originally decided to have one Jewish state, and one Arab state.
I like the way how all zionists use the UN to justify the creation of Israel, then call it a 'joke' when it finds Israel guilty of war crimes or when it finds Israel of in breach of more UN resolutions than any other country.
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Why should Palestinians get citizenship? Can a Mexican get an American Citizenship on the spot?
How about because they've been living there for 2000 years? And the Palestinian population makes up nearly a quatre of the entire Israeli population?? And anyway, who said anything about Palestinians? I was talking about non-Jews in general.
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So a bunch of Jews buying land and only selling it to other Jews is Racist? I think the owner of a land should have a right to sell it to whoever he wants to.
That's not the point. In Israel, non-Jews aren't ALLOWED to buy or rent land! It's not up to the owners!
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Did you know Jews aren't allowed to own ANY land in
Saudi Arabia?
Once again, trying to justify Israel's actions through criticising Arabs.
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The same reason a New york lisence plate is different than a European one. And last time I checked, Arabs were the ones blowing themselves up, not Jews.
Key difference. Palestinians actually live in Israel, believe it or not.
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Wow, Israel actually supplies the Palestinians with water? That's awfully kind of them, I wouldnt think they would be required to do such a thing. Maybe you should check out the population of Israel vs. The population of the territories.
Awfully nice to provide a quatre of the citizens with WATER? It's nice to provide a million people with water? I think you're about screwed up in the head merkava.
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'Jew only' ads. With you, its either twisted beyond belief, or just made up.
So basically, anything that you realise is bad for Israel you convince yourself that the other person made it up. LOL. how pathetic. It's a fact, why don't you look it up? Until as recently as 1988, this law applied in Israel (yes, your beloved Israel!)
SO WHAT?? Don't you understand, we're not talking about the Arab countries here! Remember, two wrongs don't make a right!
So what? Think logically, if it werent a Jewish state, it would be a Muslim one, just like the 22 others - Jew Free. Your logic makes absoluetly no sense.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #3 :
Some left of their own accord, I grant you that, however there were lots who were forced out of their homes, propery, businesses and farms for the Jews to live in. Can you understand why the palesitinians are pretty mad? I mean, wouldnt you be mad if some random guy came up to you and took your house?? (and then got AWAY with it???)
Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18
Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19
It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20
When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21
In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22
In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al_Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23
The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25
In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:
It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26
Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27
The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28
By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el_Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30
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antizionist2004 said this in post #3 : I like the way how all zionists use the UN to justify the creation of Israel, then call it a 'joke' when it finds Israel guilty of war crimes or when it finds Israel of in breach of more UN resolutions than any other country.
The UN used to be a respectable relevant group, formed of Germany, France, and other unbiased countries who actually have a right in what goes on in Israel.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #3 : That's not the point. In Israel, non-Jews aren't ALLOWED to buy or rent land! It's not up to the owners!
And you a Jew, seems to be so worried about this. What about the fact that Jews arent allowed to buy any land in any Arab country? Why doesnt this worry you're little Jewish soul, hmmm?
antizionist2004 said this in post #3 : Key difference. Palestinians actually live in Israel, believe it or not.
Really? The West Bank and Gaza strip seem to be sketched out and marked as "disputed" in most maps ive seen. They do NOT live in Israel.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #3 : Awfully nice to provide a quatre of the citizens with WATER? It's nice to provide a million people with water? I think you're about screwed up in the head merkava.
Well, maybe if the Palestinians stopped obssessing with destroying Israel, and formed their own economy instead of trying to destroy Israels, they be able to supply their own water, and stop being so dependant.
I'm messed in the head? Your own people are getting slaughtered in Israel, and you're too busy buying into all of this anti-zionist Bullsshit.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #3 : So basically, anything that you realise is bad for Israel you convince yourself that the other person made it up. LOL. how pathetic. It's a fact, why don't you look it up? Until as recently as 1988, this law applied in Israel (yes, your beloved Israel!)
Have you ever been to Israel? Have you ever seen a Job application specify No arabs? If only you realized how crazy some of the **** you say is.
Why should Palestinians get citizenship? Can a Mexican get an American Citizenship on the spot?
Chainnech:
Mexicans already have their own citizenship. Unlike some Mexicans who want U.S. citizenship, Palestinians simply want to be a citizen of their own nation -- and they want that nation to be internationally recognized.
Wow, Israel actually supplies the Palestinians with water? That's awfully kind of them, I wouldnt think they would be required to do such a thing. Maybe you should check out the population of Israel vs. The population of the territories.
Chainnech:
Israel enjoys massive U.S. military and economic support -- Sharonīs government has bulldozed entire villages and killed many innocent people -- Palestinians and other nationalities. Terrorism should not be tolerated, either on the part of the Arabs OR the Jews. Yes, Hamas has killed innocent Jewish civilians -- but that doesnīt give Sharon and company the right to slaughter innocent non-jewish civilians, with the pretext of rooting out terrorists. Thankfully, not all Jews agree with Sharon and his methods.
Chainnech said this in post #5 : Chainnech:
Mexicans already have their own citizenship. Unlike some Mexicans who want U.S. citizenship, Palestinians simply want to be a citizen of their own nation -- and they want that nation to be internationally recognized.
The Palestinians have had their chance to have their own Palestinian state THREE times. THREE TIMES. Each time, they refused - insisting on continuing the drive to destroy Israel. They will simply not be happy until all the Jews in Israel are gone.
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Chainnech said this in post #5 : Chainnech:
Israel enjoys massive U.S. military and economic support -- Sharonīs government has bulldozed entire villages and killed many innocent people -- Palestinians and other nationalities. Terrorism should not be tolerated, either on the part of the Arabs OR the Jews. Yes, Hamas has killed innocent Jewish civilians -- but that doesnīt give Sharon and company the right to slaughter innocent non-jewish civilians, with the pretext of rooting out terrorists. Thankfully, not all Jews agree with Sharon and his methods.
So does Egypt, what's your point?
The US gives Israel Loan gaurntees, and Israel is the only country which has actually managed to pay the Loans back. Another thing is, when Israel uses its Aid to buy American weapons, that Aid goes straight back into the American economy.
The IDF bulldozes houses that belonged to dead Suicide bombers as a deterant. I personally feel this isnt punishment enough.
Hamas has killed innoncent Civilians on purpose
The IDF has killed innoncent Civilians accidenitally while pursuing to kill Terrorists with blood on their hands.
Yet people like you insist on laying the blame with Israel.
The UN used to be a respectable relevant group, formed of Germany, France, and other unbiased countries who actually have a right in what goes on in Israel.
So as soon as it criticises Israel, it is no longer 'relevant' as you put it in your own words?
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What about the fact that Jews arent allowed to buy any land in any Arab country? Why doesnt this worry you're little Jewish soul, hmmm?
Don't you get it, WE'RE NOT talking about the Arab countries! Two wrongs dont make a right! How long will it take before this sinks into your head you spineless ****. And what did you mean by your last comment? You starting that "you're not really jewish" **** up again ??
antizionist2004 said this in post #7 : So as soon as it criticises Israel, it is no longer 'relevant' as you put it in your own words?
As soon as 22 Arab countries which believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist criticise, then it becomes irelevant.
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antizionist2004 said this in post #7 : Don't you get it, WE'RE NOT talking about the Arab countries! Two wrongs dont make a right! How long will it take before this sinks into your head you spineless ****. And what did you mean by your last comment? You starting that "you're not really jewish" **** up again ??
Who said anything about wrongs? Even the UN and Britain realized 50 years ago that the Jews and Arabs need to be separated,
But Arabs and Jews used to get along fine! Arabs and Jews used to coexist side by side, until ZIONISM!! So your "realised 50 years ago that the Jews and Arabs need to separated" is CRAP!
Zionism is what brought Jews into Palestine during the 1800's - if it weren't for Zionism, there would be no Jews in Palestine right now, and Israel would not exist.
And the Idea that Arabs and Jews used to get along together is partially true - there were many coexisting villages. But events like the Hebron Massacre of 1929 were becomming more and more constant.
[i]Merkava said this in post The Palestinians have had their chance to have their own Palestinian state THREE times. THREE TIMES. Each time, they refused - insisting on continuing the drive to destroy Israel. They will simply not be happy until all the Jews in Israel are gone.
Chainnech:
They donīt want their Palestinian state on Israeli-dictated terms, which seems logical enough to me. That last statement referring to "They" shows you lump all Palestinians into the same terrorist sack.
The IDF bulldozes houses that belonged to dead Suicide bombers as a deterant. I personally feel this isnt punishment enough.
Chainnech:
So I suppose you think what happened at Jenin was just fine and dandy, and all the victims were "terrorists": Massacre at Jenin
Hamas has killed innoncent Civilians on purpose
The IDF has killed innoncent Civilians accidenitally while pursuing to kill Terrorists with blood on their hands.
Chainnech:
Looks like a lot of "accidents" to me.
Yet people like you insist on laying the blame with Israel. [/B]
Oh, you can roll your eyes all you want. Who "laid the blame on Israel"? All Israelis are not in agreement as to how to achieve lasting peace. If some right-wing zionist nut hadnīt gone and murdered Yitzhak Rabin, there might have been some progress towards peace. But since all of those of you who think Sharon is so great, also think that every Palestinian is a terrorist, (even though you wonīt come out and say it), you either keep silent on atrocities like Jenin, or you actually praise such acts. Two wrongs never, ever make a right.
The world needs more Jews like Yitzhak Rabin .
antizionist2004 said this in post #12 : Merkava, zionism is what brought all the conflict in the middle-east. If it wasnt for zionism, thousands of innocent lives would have been saved.
I guess the same thing could be said about Islam.
I'm not even going to bother replying to the other dude, he still believes the Jenin Massacre actually happened.
"Believe" is not the word when it comes to the Jenin massacre. Sharon would be happy if all the evidence and witnesses disappeared, but this hasnīt happened. Of course, some of the the same people who offer a "Bushy" smirk in reference to the Jenin massacre stop smirking when anybody suggests the same about the Holocaust, another documented massacre. But oh no, thatīs different, isnīt it? Thatīs about "us" not about "them"...
You can give all the zionist links you want merkava, but do you actually think anyone will actually read that bollucks? Why don't you actualy give us some facts, instead of simply redirecting us towards zionist websites?
I never said israeli links, i said zionist links. Dont you know the difference between these? Surely your knowledge of israel cant be THAT bad merkava? Oh deary me. It looks like i have been wasting my time debating with somebody who really hasnt a clue.
Not all of them, and don't change the subject. You just implied before that they can't be zionist because they're no where near Israel. You have therefore just shown just how ignorant you are, how can anybody on this webby now take you seriously after you have just claimed zionists and israelis are one and the same thing??
Speaking of 'changing the subject', whatever happened to the point at hand: All of those article prove the Jenin Massacre was nothing but another Arab Myth.
Oh, Sharon had swept the dust under the carpet by the time the U.N. committee got there -- and apparently was quite effective in "convincing" Shimon Peres to reverse his "massacre" statement: The Truth About Jenin WILL Come Out
Just like the Nazis used to say, "Ve haf veys of makink you talk", I donīt doubt Sharon has "his veys" of shutting people up. But he canīt shut everybody up.
Secretary of State Colin Powell concisely refuted Palestinian claims that Israel was guilty of atrocities in Jenin. I see no evidence that would support a massacre took place.62 Powell's view was subsequently confirmed by the United Nations, Human Rights Watch and an investigation by the European Union.63
The Palestinians repeatedly claimed that a massacre had been committed in the days immediately following the battle. Spokesman Saeb Erekat, for example, told CNN on April 17 that at least 500 people were massacred and 1,600 people, including women and children, were missing. The Palestinians quickly backpedaled when it became clear they could not produce any evidence to support the scurrilous charge, and their own review committee reported a death toll of 56, of whom 34 were combatants. No women or children were reported missing.64
Israel did not arbitrarily choose to raid the refugee camp in Jenin. It had little choice after a series of suicide bombings had terrorized Israeli civilians for the preceding 18 months. To defend itself and bring about hope for peace, Israeli forces went into Jenin to root out one of the principal terrorist bases.
The Palestinian Authority's own documents call Jenin the "suiciders capital." The camp has a long history as a base for extremists, and no less than 28 suicide attacks were launched from this terror nest during the wave of violence that preceded Israel's action. These terrorists violated the cease-fire agreed to by Israel and undermined Israeli efforts to resume political negotiations toward a final peace agreement.
Palestinian snipers targeted soldiers from a girls' school, a mosque, and a UNRWA building, and, in returning fire and pursuing terrorists, some noncombatants were hit. Any civilian casualty is a tragedy, but some were unavoidable because Palestinian terrorists used civilians as shields. The majority of casualties were gunmen.
Israel also kept the hospital running in Jenin. Lt. Col. Fuad Halhal, the Druze commander of the district coordinating body for the IDF, personally delivered a generator to the hospital under fire during the military operation.65
While Israel could have chosen to bomb the entire camp, the strategy employed by the U.S. in Afghanistan, the IDF deliberately chose a riskier path to reduce the likelihood of endangering civilians. Soldiers went house to house and 23 were killed in bitter combat with Palestinian terrorists using bombs, grenades, booby-traps and machine guns to turn the camp into a war zone.
Television pictures gave a distorted perspective of the damage in the camp as well. Jenin was not destroyed. The Israeli operation was conducted in a limited area of the refugee camp, which itself comprises a small fraction of the city. The destruction that did occur in the camp was largely caused by Palestinian bombs.
Palestinians have learned from fabricating atrocity stories in the past that a false claim against Israel will get immediate media attention and attract sympathy for their cause. The corrections that inevitably follow these specious charges are rarely seen, read, or noticed.
The same reason a New york lisence plate is different than a European one. And last time I checked, Arabs were the ones blowing themselves up, not Jews.
Just one note: Israli Arabs have the same car plate (Yellow) as the Jews. That shows that the antizionist conspiration post is fake and invalid.
Arabs in the territory have different plates (Green) because those plate are not under the Israel Jurisdiction.
Do the antizionist realy wants Israel to annex the Territories and give the Palsetinian Arabs there Yellow plates?
Secretary of State Colin Powell concisely refuted Palestinian claims that Israel was guilty of atrocities in Jenin. I see no evidence that would support a massacre took place.62 Powell's view was subsequently confirmed by the United Nations, Human Rights Watch and an investigation by the European Union.63
Wow, yeah, sure, you really picked a winner there, Colin Powell. Weīve learned to trust his "accurate" explanations of how Iraq possessed, beyond a shadow of a doubt, WMDs. Right. And the Human Rights Watch? Letīs see what Sara Flounders of "Workers World" has to say:
"Who is Human Rights Watch and how were they able to gain access to Jenin for an inquiry at the very time that Israel was denying entry to a delegation chosen by the UN Security Council? ...it is an institution that has acted at every turn to reinforce the policies of the United States and justify its humanitarian interventions. Its board includes multi-millionaires and former U.S. government officials..."
Oh, yeah. It was founded by George Soros.
The whole story: Jenin Cover-up
LOL chainech what an idiot! Ye okay I grant you that perhaps the Jenin Massacre happened, I personally think it did, but what a FEEBLE argument! Absolutely pathetic.
And merkava, you still havent answered my question: what religion were you born as?
So can I ask why do you try to defend Israel SO much if you're not even Jewish? Does it not bother you that if you ever wanted to go and live in Israel Jewish people, even if they are converts, will automatically be allowed entry but people like yourself may be rejected?
Excuse me, but How do u know that Palestinian Militant would kill a person just because their jewish? Israel has killed more Jewish people than the Palestinians did, and when i say Jewish i mean non-zionists who come in peace, u dont want me to name the number of peace activists that were killed by the Israeli Troops dont you?
You can't have it both ways.
It takes two, 2, you know, more than one, to fight.
Both of these countries are at fault for fighting for so long.
I'ts like they have no negociating or reasoning skills at all. Only black and white.
Oh my God. Could it be that I'm agreeing with USA? Wow, I may have to rethink things now.
Certainly it's both those nations fault. However, I don't believe that suicide bombers are helping their cause. They're just contributing to the misery of their own people while blaming Israel for it.
TWBR said this in post #33 : Excuse me, but How do u know that Palestinian Militant would kill a person just because their jewish? Israel has killed more Jewish people than the Palestinians did, and when i say Jewish i mean non-zionists who come in peace, u dont want me to name the number of peace activists that were killed by the Israeli Troops dont you?
Israeli Jews have killed more Jews than Palestinian terrorists....
WOW.
You strike me as the epitomy of being brainwashed.
No **** , Muslims and Jews dont get along and they hate each other and are racists to each other , both sides, but i didnt ask for that, i was talking about the Palestinians killing un-israeli jews, who come in peace, i havent seen anything on that , infact heres a video about 3 jewish women visiting Palestine, you will see how the Palestinians reacted, http://www.freespeech.org/fsitv/ram...ne_starhawk.ram
It's a shame the Palestinians have their homes searched like that, but that's the cause and effect of Terrorism. It's also a shame the ISM doesnt bother showing the houses the IDF finds that are practically bomb factories.
Actually Merkava TWBR is right, muslims and jews are very racist to each other. I know many Jews (being Jewish myself) that would like nothing better than to wipe the whole Muslim nation out. Although knowing your racist stances Merkava, you probably want exactly the same thing.
TWBR said this in post #38 : Trust me im very aware of whats going on in the world,
Like George W. Bush, you mean? Canīt name the leader of Pakistan, said there were WMDs in Iraq beyond the shadow of a doubt...oh, right. Why should we trust anybody who says they know whatīs going on if they canīt prove that they do?
TWBR said this in post #43 : huh? ok.....lets get back on topic
On topic? Oh, George W. Bush has given us a few choice quotes: "[Youīre all] going to he11." -- Joking about what he would say to Israeli Jews upon arriving in the Middle East in 1993, Austin-American Statesman, 1 December 1998
Personally, I prefer not to make such statements (which are so characteristic of "Mr. Smirk") Youīre probably not going to get anybody upset by saying that people on both sides are racists, because thatīs something I should think most people believe, just as I should think most people think that there are good and innocent people on both sides suffering. Whatīs more controversial is to get into exactly whoīs(proportionately speaking) the underdog (Palestine. IMO) and the stronger power (the State of Israel, IMO) in this conflict. ( Which is not to pin a "good guy" pin on either side, Iīm simply referring to the balance of power, obviously heavily in favor of the State of Israel.) Until Israel gets back to moderate policies(which includes renouncing religious fanaticism and dogmatism), IMO, there will be no chance for a lasting peace. But in order for that to happen, there will have to be a change in the political order of things.
Islam has a history of respecting other religions. In Muhammad's day, Christians, Sabeans, and Jews in Muslim lands retained their own courts and enjoyed considerable autonomy.
As Islam spread east toward India and China, it came to view Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, and Buddhism as valid paths to salvation. As Islam spread north and west, Judaism especially benefited.
The return of the Jews to Jerusalem, after centuries as outcasts, only came about after Muslims took the city in 638. The first thing the Muslims did there was to rescue the Temple Mount, which by then had been turned into a garbage heap.
the long discord between Israel and Palestine has acquired harsh religious overtones. Yet the fact remains that this is a battle for real estate, not a war between two faiths. Islam and Judaism revere the same prophetic lineage, back to Abraham, and no amount of bullets or barbed wire can change that.
[QUOTE]Merkava said this in post #46 :
[B]If Jews are just as racist as Muslims, why is 20 percent of the Israeli population Arab? Why is Israel not a PURE Jewish state?
Great link chainnech. The response to that letter was clearly written by somebody from a neutral perspective to the Israel conflict, a half-Jew (so obviously no anti-semite) yet was able to clearly argue and counter that ironic and twisted pro-israel letter sent to him.
Thanks A-Z. Iīm just sick and tired of seeing this and other issues get painted black/white, and in this particular case, of seeing some folks rabidly jumping up and down and screaming, "Anti-semite, Anti-semite!!!" or "terrorist appeaser!!!"when anybody talks about justice for all those suffering in this absurd and sad conflict. Hate and disdain can never bring about peace, no matter who is showing it in word and in deed.
It's particularly ironic considering how many anti-zionist Jews there are. Especially when people like Merkava used to call me an "anti-semite" until they realised I was Jewish!
Chainnech said this in post #49 : [QUOTE]Merkava said this in post #46 :
[B]If Jews are just as racist as Muslims, why is 20 percent of the Israeli population Arab? Why is Israel not a PURE Jewish state?
Why should the Arabs compensate for Germany's sins? Even zionists fail to struggle to answer that simple question.
The bitter irony is that the Stern Gang actually leagued with Mussolini at one point, and Mussolini was the ally of Adolf Hitler, who "ordered" the holocaust.
Heīs most likely to the right of me from what I can see, but IMO, at least heīs not blinded by religious fanaticism and tries to see the big picture.
And this article by Peter Grier may be over 2 years old, but itīs very much a relevant one, IMO. Towards the end, thereīs an interesting mention of the questionable cost of U.S.īs relationship with Israel.
Merkava, the reason that Britain allowed Jews to buy land in Palestine is because they were pro-zionist (as the balfour declaration proves) and the zionists helped Britain win ww1.
Remarkably, it seems you are suggesting that the Holocaust was the Palestinians fault. When I say "why should the Arabs compensate for Germany's sins" you say "they compensated for their own sins." I presume you are talking about the Holocaust - what "sins" were these then?
So why is it that after the poem you said "how does this justify the holocaust" when it had absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust?
And why should they accept the plan. Would YOU give up half your house to somebody you didn't know just because something terrible had happened to them? HELL NO.
Chainnech said this in post #49 : [QUOTE]Merkava said this in post #46 :
[B]If Jews are just as racist as Muslims, why is 20 percent of the Israeli population Arab? Why is Israel not a PURE Jewish state?
Very relevant and insightful link! One point that explains better than I could why I lean toward the Palestinian side of the dispute:
quote:
Again, there are wrongs on both sides, but it is clear who has the most power, and therefore, in my mind, the most responsibility for the current madness.
quote:
Merkava said this in post #53 : That's a cute article, but it fails to take two things into effect.
The Holocaust
The Ottoman empire's destruction and occupation by Britain.
The Holocaust should not even enter this picture! If the Zionists had been given Bavaria, that would be one thing. The Arabs in Paliestine were not involved in the Holocaust. And how does the Ottoman/Britain thing fit in? You feel that because Britain had colonized Palestine, they had every right to give it away?!!
You never cease to amaze me.
quote:
Merkava said this in post #59 : They didn't compensate for Germany's sins. They compensated for their own sins.
antizionist2004 said this in post #63 : So why is it that after the poem you said "how does this justify the holocaust" when it had absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust?
And why should they accept the plan. Would YOU give up half your house to somebody you didn't know just because something terrible had happened to them? HELL NO.
And here is where the misunderstanding becomes clear. I'll quote myself:
Luke90 said this in post #64 : The Holocaust should not even enter this picture! If the Zionists had been given Bavaria, that would be one thing. The Arabs in Paliestine were not involved in the Holocaust. And how does the Ottoman/Britain thing fit in? You feel that because Britain had colonized Palestine, they had every right to give it away?!!
You never cease to amaze me.
The Holocaust shouldnt have entered this picture? Even the article you posted (which I refuted in that other thread), mentioned the Holocaust.
What is it with you people and being so scared of History anyway?
So now the Britains Gave Palestine Away to the Jews? Sorry, Lukewhateverthe****, The only thing the British did was try to Cap the amount of Jewish immigration into Israel. Meanwhile, Arab immigration was at its highest point in History - with no cap. This flow of Arab immigration was mainly do to the all of a sudden increase of Jobs, and all around wellfare of the Population.
But that had nothing to do AT ALL with the Jewish population, right?
Merkava said this in post #66 : The Holocaust shouldnt have entered this picture? Even the article you posted (which I refuted in that other thread), mentioned the Holocaust.
What is it with you people and being so scared of History anyway?
So now the Britains Gave Palestine Away to the Jews? Sorry, Lukewhateverthe****,
Luke is good enough.
quote:
The only thing the British did was try to Cap the amount of Jewish immigration into Israel. Meanwhile, Arab immigration was at its highest point in History - with no cap. This flow of Arab immigration was mainly do to the all of a sudden increase of Jobs, and all around wellfare of the Population.
But that had nothing to do AT ALL with the Jewish population, right?
So? Whats your point? Theres christains who are anti-semitic because they ordered for Jesus Christ (pbuh) to be killed, who the hell is denying the Holocaust? The Palestinians? How do you know? One of your links told you?
With you, its either twisted beyond belief, or just made up.
On topic? Oh, George W. Bush has given us a few choice quotes: "[Youīre all] going to he11." -- Joking about what he would say to Israeli Jews upon arriving in the Middle East in 1993, Austin-American Statesman, 1 December 1998
What planet are you from?