What noise does an Iraqi child make when they burn?

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Squeal, pop, crackle, mummy, mummy, mummy, squeal, shriek...........................Have I missed anything?

Its one thing defending and its another thing inflicting!

Hope you supporters of this attack can justify in your own minds just what you are supporting.

Nope. Thats the reality of war.

The make the same kinds of noises like all those innocent Iraqis this regime has killed over the years. Like Halajaba where "purposely" led chemical attacks were carried out. 5000 dead and 20,000 badly injured in half a minute. See a difference perhaps?

Its easy to be against the conflict when you don't live under this kind of regime. A price is paid on both sides when a dictatorship has to fall. The sad reality of what these dictators bring to us.

When Iraq becomes free then it all goes away for the future generations. Live or eventually die? I'd take a chance to live freely in the future without fear of eventual death.

Fred Hooper

It is easy to be against this conflict, I agree. It is also easy to be against anyone who inflicts upon others pain and suffering. I hope you are not trying to justify what we are doing by comparing to what others have done. We know what noises they make so we learn by that and dont do the same.

If we kill or hurt one child, we are no better than anyone who has done so in the past.

War is war and those dierctly in it suffer the most every single time. Coalition forces and Iraqi civilians in this case.

The coalition isn't killing innocents on purpose though and casualties are very low. The troops honestly want to give them freedom by disposing of the regime and that should be seen as enough.

The reality of war must maintain its strength against emotional wants and needs.

Fred Hooper

It doesnt matter if its on purpose or not. Killing is wrong unless you are defending yourself, and by defending I dont mean defending against pre-emptive thought crimes.

We arnt there to liberate, remember, it was a war against terror (but none of the 911 terrorists were Iraqi) so then it was Weapons of mass destruction,, but we didnt find any, so now its morphed into liberating a country. It doesnt wash, sorry.Killing is wrong.

No country has the right to enter a country just to liberate it. You may assist in its evolution, but that is all. A culture is no longer the same when its evolution is forced. Sometimes you have to let things run there course and only intervene when you are directly threatened otherwise you would have countries entering the US to liberate those they thought needed it. What would you think if all the countries in the world who thought personal gun ownership was wrong, got together and invaded the US to rid it of its weapons?

Killing is a dirty business but its required if you want this regime to fall. It is just plain out and out reality my friend. That is war which has been required before and will be again in the future until there is no one left to battle.

Otherwise leave Saddam in power and let others take over decades down the track. Sorry, they isn't an option and imagine the consequences. Contaiment and diplomacy can only go on for so long. A decade is enough and the problem needs solving now for a host of very good reasons.

No one likes war and the UN fails sometimes like it did in Bosnia and Rwanda. Sometimes good men need to act on their own and consider the wider issues because others are more vested in their self interests.

A brutal dictatorship that has purposely killed over 2 million of its own and others doesn't have any rights in my books.

Fred Hooper

A culture does have rights, the rights given to it by its own self construction, a construction left alone by other cultures. If we are attacked then defend. But otherwise leave them alone to find their own way.

We were not asked to liberate, that is merely a new excuse. Even with the biased reporting we are seeing, very few Iraqis are grateful for our presence. Infact todays papers have stories from the troops themselves saying how they are welcomed to their face and shot in the back. Sure its a brutal regime, but it is their regime.
We are not liberating, we are forcing through death and destruction (for want of a better phrase) a middle eastern culture to emerge that is in line with our thinking be that for oil or percieved future danger.

Killing people is wrong Fred, whoever does it, its no excuse saying that they have killed people or may kill in the future, the actually real act of killing children, in the now, is obscene and so are the excuses trying to justify it.

Today children are burning and screaming and being ruined, if we were not there those same children may be playing in the sun, dreaming of a future, planning ways to make their country into a democracy, but we, in our wisdom, have killed not only them but their chance for true self reliance. There are no free dead children.

ok first off you idiot, we are not killing innocent people, the only civilian deaths that I have heard of is from Iraqs own missle striking a market place, it amazes me what you anti-war people will try to come up with to argue us. The truth is you have no facts to support your arguments

Now you anwser my question.

How will leaving Saddam in power promote peace and justice in Iraq?

Wonky, you're so worked up over the killing of children thing, that you've thrown all reason and intelligence out the window.

Were you this outraged when Saddam marched troops into southern Iraq and hacked up children in front of parents for trying to resist his regime? Oh....maybe THOSE children did'nt make the proper noises to deserve something better.

Were you staying online for hours crying for the Kurdish children who were gasses in masse, with their entire villiage. Maybe their stifled coughs were'nt the right noises that Iraqi children are supposed to make when they die. Is this how you decide when its OK and when its not.

Heres the difference Einstein:

Saddam willingly, and knowingly killed those children with pre meditated hate and loathing. But I hear no condemnation from you

The U.S and Britain are using the most precision weapons ever used in combat in the history of the world to minimize civilian casualties. Fighting against animals that store weapons and fight out of hospitals, put anti aircraft weapons in civilian neighborhoods. But still, your problem is with us trying to rid the world of this cancer of a human being.

Bottom line, you dont care about the deaths of innocents. Your just another holier than thou hypocrite which is trying to use the deaths of children to reinforce your own theories.

You should feel ashamed.

i think we should just drop a nuclear bomb on that whole country and blow it the hell up

i dont have a problem with that

Still waiting for your answer wonky.
Which childs death screams count?

we stunned him

Wackconcrete's agenda only regards any harm done by the coalition as relevent. By Wackyconcretes counts... The absurdly high mortality rate of Iraqi children does not count... nor do any of the atrocities committed by the nitwit twirp, Suddam Hussein, against his own people.

The argument by Wackyconcrete and those who share his delusional ideas is that Iraq is much better off being left alone so they continue being oppressed, killed, and brutalized 'internally' by their own twisted leader.

I guess Iraqi children must appreciate it when their own country tortures and kills them on purpose rather than being injured in collaterall damage. ( If your school is on top of a weapons depot, maybe you should stop going until the wars over)

Has there not been deaths of civilians, in every war? Can anybody name one war that did not kill at least one civilian? Why is this war suppose to be free of civilian casulties, when nobody has ever accomplished that before? ...Because it is just another excuse to hate the U.S., even though we aren't in this alone.

There is one thing that does make this war different though. All soldiers are making a conscious effort to 'not kill' and to 'not wound' civilians and are even trying to do the same with Iraq's soldiers. Sometimes this results in their own deaths.

How many countries put military buildings..etc...in civilian populated areas? If you want to blame someone, blame Saddam and everyone who wants to continue to look the other way.

Well said, T.L.B.

I feel I have made my point quite clearly, see above. A child in Iraq will only grow up to understand how it can change its culture if it understands its culture rather than the forced, american picked way it should be. Killing is wrong no matter who does it, I dont support what saddam has done as i dont support bush. But Iraqi children need to see their own culture develop to understand what needs to be done. This invasion takes away that opportunity for understanding and replaces it with our ideologies.

We may kill less children than saddam, but that is not the point. If you dont understand that then no matter how many 'facts' I give you, you will still feel we have the right to bomb a culture into compliance.

If you think I am picking one kind of suffering over another, then you are sadly mistaken. If you continue to do so now that I have told you otherwise then that is shameful.

Would you not kill in self defense? Would you not kill to save your child's life? Would you not kill to stop your wife from being tortured and raped?

Your philosophy is that there has never been a justified war. If we all would have let things be and let them run there course, there would not be any Jews left. Would that make you happy?

Sometimes there are reasons for war. Sometimes there are reasons for killing. Sometimes, unfortunately, innocent people die. That is reality.

Right gdog,
sit down and learn something. This is called history and its going to upset you but its true. The hacking up of those children in the rebellion in Southern Iraq was first instigated by George Bush senior's appeal to the Shia Muslims in 1991 to oust Saddam Hussein. Now, not only did Mr Nice Man Bush fail to back them up when they asked for his help but the American army HELPED yes HELPED Saddam's republican guard to crush it thus causing the hacking up you speak of.
And with regard to Saddam's genocide of the kurds...yes wrong, undoubtedly so, but not even in the same league as the deliberate genocide of a million Iraqi people through the twelve years of sanctions rigidly imposed by America and Britain.
"It was a conscious and callous choice to deny an entire society the means necessary to survive." Dr Eric Herring, Bristol, UK

And that is the problem, our inability to except a culture we dont understand, refuse to understand.

We went through hundreds of years of christian oppression to get where we are now. (well the US didnt, America did when its indiginous population were/are oppressed, but the US has little history of its own).

All cultures must be respected in as much as they are allowed to evolve. It may be painful to watch, but that is how it goes. But still I dont expect the US to understand this, how could they, without their own sense of history.

Wonkyconcrete,
Please refer to post #19 and do your best to answer it.

America does have a history. Some of it to be very proud of and some of it to be ashamed of. In any case, that doesn't seem to be any different than any other nation.

We however, have something that a lot of other countries don't. We have every race of peoples, with stories of survival and how they found a better way of life here. We have a culture that has been integrated by many. We are the most hated, but yet the most immigrated country in the world. We all are survivors.

We must be doing something right.

Brilliant DrPoke.

Now name one that occured on land and remained free of civilian deaths.

I noticed Wonky never answered the Peace and Justice in Iraq question.

Support your argument that these monsters methodically rape, murder and commit atrocities against their own civilians who attempt to voice dissent. I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily...just support what you say. Convince me! Oh and forget Halabja, we all know about that one...that's a fact everyone accepts. try some other atrocities because so far we've got a dictator who's murdered 5000 kurds. Not nice, but there's many people who have done much worse, such as your own and my governments.

wonkey tends to do that when his argument begins to show signs of collapsing.

All these pathetic justifications made up by the US government for their crimes against the iraqi people makes me sick. "oh we'll just use our 'smart' bombs to kill a few thousands, to protect the lives of another few". "well saddam killed thousands, why can't we?". "Hold on iraqi people! we're coming for ya! ... ooops! we thought that was a weapons factory, sorry guys! we'll just blame it on saddam, everybody knows he's the bad guy"
Do you really think Mr. Bush and his ***** blair give a **** about the iraqi people? most people who hated saddam (iraqis and non iraqis) are on his side now. and not cause they're in bed with him as most of you might think. Saddam canot be as dangerous as somebody like Bush leading the world's strongest nation. Why did they bring saddam in power in the first place? why did they supply him with these weapons that's causing all that hype? They wouldn't try so hard, and resort to lies and fabrications to justify this war, if it was really for a just cause. Did you see such opposition to war when the US went after alqaeda? And still, they failed to gather support and prove their case in the UN, but they went to war anyway, took a few allies, i mean ***-kissers, and a few countries that they "bought" with them.
Iraqis did not ask for america's help, and they don't want them there. they did not meet them with flowers and little US flags, if that's what u saw on TV, these are the kuwaitis. Iraqis are simply defending their country. And YES these are civilians fighting the coalition of the ****ed, and not soldiers dressed up like civilians. Iraqis would definately love to get rid of saddam, but wtf?! it's like "we'll help you get rid of him, we're just gonna have to kill your children, invade and destroy your country, take your oil and choose your government".
Nobody's believes Bush's lies including a lot of americans themselves. This war is all about dividing iraq, and controlling the oil in the region. It's all about covering up for the failure to capture bin laden who seems to appear on TV more than bush does. It's all about protection for israel an america's little colonies such as kuwait. and YES it's about getting rid of saddam who betrayed his friends who brought him to power, and gave him his toys.


spare me the vomit that's gonna come out of your mouths especially you rambo, I don't read your posts, I'm usually too busy scratching my balls.

You were THINKING rambo? Well please don't keep it to yourself, let's here these cleverly crafted thoughts of yours. Please, for the love of God, let's here something intelligent!!!!

Darn Rambo...I knew it wasn't going to lead to anything.

Yeah but that's not the case gdog. the case is that Americans dropped millions of leaflets written in arabic on iraq just before the way started, asking the iraqis to stay at home and that everything is gonna be alright, then they dropped thousands of 'smart' bombs over their heads which brought them along with their houses and women and children to ground level.

Thankyou gdog and I really mean it. An argument! I've taken a look at your link -a cursory look I admit- and naturally someone in my position has reservations about the objectivity of its reporting (but I guess you expected that). I was not convinced by one page entitled The White House with a photo of George Bush listening attentively to some Iraqi women - I'm afraid a page entitled The White House is naturally going to make me sceptical. But I did read it. A couple of the stories also tiptoed over relevant points. The women pharmacist who mentions of her fleeing the Republican guard after the 1991 uprising seemed unaware that her distress of having no coalition forces to support her was actually quite mild to the shi'as who were horrified that the American forces had actually been given orders to help the Republican Gurad in quelling the uprising. Believe me gdog, I HAVE got that right and will be happy to give you my source if you want. It actually appears in another thread. Also the other women who talks about her strife in the Iraq-Iran war when she claims that Saddam started it but does not mention that he was inspired and backed by America. It's a little biased to my liking but I am most certainly not saying it is not worthwhile.
Thank you for taking the time to respond with this evidence of argument.

you know you have made remarks of the crying baby on the news that we accidently hurt because of saddams bull**** tatics dressing up his soilders as civilians. Another way to hurt his people. Whay about the babys that cried while playing in there yards and haveing then all of a sudden there hit with bio/chem weapons , 5000 of them, listen to there crys, then listen to over 8000 babys crying in iran from saddams bio/chem weapons again. Listen to the crys of the kids as there mother is killed in town sqare because she wants change or listen to the crys of a young girl as bullets rip her chest apart because she waved at an american. Listen to all of the other babys that have died of malnutrition because saddam was feeding himself and armys with the best foods and medicines while the babys dies of no food or sickness. Think of a bunch of women and kids forced to run a road block because there capters said drive through or die, Im tired of hearing of the sanctions doing this because they didnt saddam sold there food for both his armys and self and he sold there food for weapons, conventional, bio/chem/ plus problilly dirty nuclear bombs. So when you mention of all of the babys crying remember all of this and remember why we the us and coalation forces are there in iraq for. To stop all of this senseless and murderous acts that are being committed. Its easy for someone who is free to sit back in there fat recliner drinking wine and eating a steak while there over there liveing in caves,plastic tents, drinking water from run off and you all are in a warm place eating good and carrying your sighns and crying and whineing no war. Why not there not your problim, there in iraq right? Not very human or godly of you and very selfish and selfcentered, greedy people. you take freedom for granted but there is alot of people that dont have it and where here to give it to iraq. Why dony all of you sighn toteing,mommys boys and girls,selfish,greedy and self centered sighn toters pick up a gun anfd go defend freedom like every good american blooded person should do. Not hide behind mommys or daddys shirt and do something right for not only your freedom and for your country and for the iraqi people. They deserve freedom to not murder and torture. soory about spelling but my pint is well made think about it people, look at it from your hearts god bless our men and women of our and our allies and the united states of america

Christ mt,
what a load of sentimental garbage. Sanctions did this...I've offered evidence of this now you offer evidence to refute it instead of sanctimonious twaddle. Also USA inspired and backed the war against Iran. And no mt, your point is not well made. anyone can string together so descriptive narrative, opinionated and unsupported.

If this war is a bout a megalomaniac dictator who murders his own people, squashs dissent with torture, has weapons of mass destruction that he is willing to sell to the highest bidder, preferably a bidder who hates the USA and is a direct threat to the US national security why are we in Iraq when we should be in North Korea? I live within missle range of NK here in Alaska and feel more threatened by Pyongyang. I would not be suprised to know that al-Queda is shopping in NK as we speak. We know they have sent missles (and who knows what else) to Yeman and Pakistan.
Oh yea, NK doesn't have oil, I forgot.

Still can't get that constructive argument out can you Rambo! And I think that someone with over 300 posts and not a single intelligent comment in any one of them must be the only genuine candidate for spouting verbal diarrohea.

look whos talking grimminick as you talk your crap women and kids are still being executed and probably more we havent seen or been told of and uet you still keep backing this genicide and murder.

Iraqi women and children 'executed', no, lets be just and fair, merely killed by US troops, killed by US troops, oops, ive developed a stutter.

Wackyconcrete,

I am convinced beyond all doubt that you could care less about the lives of Iraqi 'women and children'.

You are simply using this war as a platform to whine, bi*tch, and moan.... and that's it.

Reason and logic are terms that are entirely foreign to your flawed way of thinking. I hate to even call it thinking.

Much like the crap that comes out of your a*ss.... the words that you spew belong in a toilet.

amen rambo Wackyconcrete is heatless towards people and the suffering of people, even his own. Sounds like he is very bitter and lonely person that has nothing else better to do but badmouth and put everything and everyone down. He or she has no morrels or sense god gave him. the colors of the red, white and blue never fade and they never run and tyrants like saddam will be dealt with swiftly and fairly. he has some education because he can type...but says nothing.....says nothing oops another stutter...lol and probly from the far east and has never tasted freedom. god bless our soilders and what they stand for

well well now we will soon see the tigress has now been crossed so we will soon see and than you can thank theus/uk and other units and soilders who have died and will for your saftey.....soon real soon you will see who you really worship and praise you dumb *** wonkyconcrete....lmao

Please tree, your personal abuse is not becoming. I have read that you have family fighting and respect your position as someone who has real views about this situation, that is why I have replied to you several times, but personal abuse.....? Please, I have my own family and would be ashamed if they spoke to people like this.

your right wonkyconcrete i was out of line there i admit this i am sorry, but my veiws of saddam and iraq will not change though i strongly beleive all i have said everywhere i have gone in this room and everything i said was thought out also not just spouted off. but im sorry for the dig towards you i was out of line there.

I appreciate your reply very much mtliveingtree, it just gets so frustating that we all finish up slagging each off.